Riposte strike on a defender

[Duff]

I've been tossing around the idea of using riposte strike to add a bit of "Damned if you do" to a defender in early paragon
Ideally I'd like my basic attack to move the attacker away from me - possibly making the attack fail (or making it impossible to include me and others in area attacks)

I'm thinking a 1/2 elf fighter with Riposte strike as a dilettante power might do the job.
This would involve use of the chain fighter multiclass so I use the chain as a light blade for riposte strike and then use feats to allow the flail mastery to allow slide on the MBA

Other options would include picking up the warlock Eldritch strike as the MBA (so riposte strike or Eldrich strike would come from Hybriding).

Is this a cute trick to annoy my DM?
or a waste of time?

[ThePurple]

Is this a cute trick to annoy my DM?
or a waste of time?

One of the important things to remember about Riposte Strike is that it doesn't provide an MBA. It's a completely separate STR based attack so, by RAW, it doesn't benefit from MBA effects (which most flail shenanigans require). Furthermore, it's an Immediate Interrupt so, for most Defenders, it will end up consuming your mark retribution mechanism as well, so I find it works best with Essentials-style defenders since it allows them to defend *and* benefit from Riposte Strike.

I made a proof of concept Berserker Barbarian (high defenses, Guardian Aura + Opp Action retribution so it doesn't use up the Immediate Action for Riposte, and STR + DEX based; Half-orc, Thri-Kreen, and Bugbear work for race since you want STR and DEX) that PMCd Rogue in order to get access to Riposte Strike (as well as Low Slash and other awesome Rogue powers). One of my players has been playing it for the last 18 months or so (as a homebrewed balanced Bugbear; from 5 to 16) and has been loving her immensely (she's extremely durable and deals huge damage), especially once they hit paragon.

Of course, I play in a heavily homebrewed game so ymmv.

[Duff]

Thanks for pointing that out.
Any chance of movement shenanigans then?
Otherwise its just a chance to smack them for damage (which is not all bad, but less annoying for my GM)

Maybe an Eladren Warden hybrid rogue and then use starlight Duelist style to feystep and mess with targeting instead?

[ThePurple]

Thanks for pointing that out.

You *might* be able to finesse your GM into making it an MBA and it doesn't really hurt to ask (the worst they're liable to do is say "no" which is no different than not asking at all).

Any chance of movement shenanigans then?

I have a general rule in my game that bans DragMag content so I haven't really familiarized myself with it, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's *something* in there that can give you forced movement shenanigans somehow. You'd need to ask someone else, however.

[e42randy]

Assuming dragonmarks are allowed in your game, you could always Mark of Storm+Lightning Weapon for slides.

Another route that would achieve something similar without reducing your weapon choice (or being reliant on dragonmarks being allowed) is to take Eldritch Strike as your dilettante and then taking White Lotus Master Riposte. The bonus of that is they also take the actionless White Lotus Riposte damage, but the downside is the second attack (and the slide) would be after they attack you.

I messed around recently with making a hybrid Cavalier/Rogue that used Riposte Strike for a Paragon-level game, but went for attack penalties instead of movement, since you want them to stay in your aura.

• Underhanded Tactics (reduce Sneak Attack by 1d6 for -2 penalty)
• Disheartening Ambush (reduce Sneak Attack again for rattling)
• Versatile Duelist+Psychic Lock with a Githyanki weapon for -2 penalty
• Impending Doom Style for -2 penalty if you hit with Interrupt attack (or Warborn Fury style if you play a Warforged)

Most of these require CA, but there's plenty of ways to get that. With these plus your aura, the mob takes -8 to attack allies. Or they can take -8 to attack you, plus you get the free swing. Cavalier works well because their aura enforcement is an Opportunity Action, plus their Encounter power works with your Riposte Strike. I didn't actually choose this build since two other people played defenders, but it seemed like fun. I'm just curious how often the build would actually get the Immediate Interrupt attack--a smart DM might just instead eat the penalty and aura damage to attack someone else.

[Meta]

IIRC, WLMR no longer works against marked targets.

[e42randy]

IIRC, WLMR no longer works against marked targets.

You are right. But it would still work with a Defender Aura.

[georgie_leech]

I found some success with using it on a Rogue that had defender-y elements to it. Didn't make it out of heroic as the campaign collapsed, but at the time it meant that I could get consistent off turn attacks before a lot of the other options for that opened up.

[ThePurple]

I found some success with using it on a Rogue that had defender-y elements to it. Didn't make it out of heroic as the campaign collapsed, but at the time it meant that I could get consistent off turn attacks before a lot of the other options for that opened up.

The problem with Riposte Strike on a non-defender is that there isn't really a good way to force or encourage targets to attack you. For a non-defender, Riposte Strike primarily acts as a disincentive to attack them, which isn't nearly as valuable as it is for a defender, since the retributive damage mechanisms they get make it guaranteed damage pretty often (since defender retributive mechanisms tend to be higher damage, on average, than Riposte Strike's ImmInt).

One interesting build that I created (before the Berserker was released) was a Rogue proof-of-concept "defender" that actually had extremely high defenses and both a marking and retributive mechanism, but it required paragon tier in order to do it. One of my players tried it out during a one-shot game (that had no other defenders) and it worked reasonably well (but not as well as a truly optimized defender would).

[georgie_leech]

The problem with Riposte Strike on a non-defender is that there isn't really a good way to force or encourage targets to attack you. For a non-defender, Riposte Strike primarily acts as a disincentive to attack them, which isn't nearly as valuable as it is for a defender, since the retributive damage mechanisms they get make it guaranteed damage pretty often (since defender retributive mechanisms tend to be higher damage, on average, than Riposte Strike's ImmInt).

One interesting build that I created (before the Berserker was released) was a Rogue proof-of-concept "defender" that actually had extremely high defenses and both a marking and retributive mechanism, but it required paragon tier in order to do it. One of my players tried it out during a one-shot game (that had no other defenders) and it worked reasonably well (but not as well as a truly optimized defender would).

Mm, paragon was where most of the juicier options were. I used the old Fighter Multiclass for a quasi mark on at least one hit an encounter, and then there's always the tried and true 'stand in front of people and look menacing' aggro technique.

[Duff]

Thanks folks

[masteraleph]

The problem with Riposte Strike on a non-defender is that there isn't really a good way to force or encourage targets to attack you.

Vigilante Justice Style. Works better when paired with a Pixie so that they can't shift away from you, because they start their turn with you in their square or directly above.

[Duff]

Is there any reason a rogue|Chaladin Satyr couldn't use lure of enchantment to do this?