Thor: Ragnarok — First Trailer

[Douglas]

I figured those were her creations.

Yeah, my impression was that, just like Thor has the personal ability to create lightning, Hela has the personal ability to create weapons. And to control their initial speed and direction of movement.

She's like a machine gun with infinite ammunition that shoots swords instead of bullets.

[lord_khaine]

AWESOME!!!

Ahem.. yeah.. just gotten back 5 min ago from watching the movie. Worth every single krone i spend on it. Only partial disapointment were the Grandmaster.

Besides that so much awesome acting. Thor is hilarious. Loki is Loki.

[Lord Joeltion]

I don't pick my friends over sharing their taste in movies, though. My best friend and I share many things in common, but most definitely not passive entertainment such as tv or movies (here's a hint of what we do have in common: the first thing they ever asked me, upon first meeting me, was "Have you ever been to etymonline.com? You'll love it" And indeed I did).

I think you misunderstood my point. I never said how you should pick/deal with your friends. I just said that the opinion of a friend could gather a more easily decpherable data to translate it's value to your own paramenters (aka: useful information) than whatever the "consensus" of a specific source appears to be (like rotten). Even if you think you know a critic very well, and you know about his preferences, most of the time you aren't so much sure about WHY he likes a movie more than the others (and I mean specifically on personal level).

On the other hand, you know the history of your friend, his/her past, prefered food and whatever. All this knowledge impacts on his tastes on movies, hence you can deduce why he actually likes movie A but not movie B, possibly fabricating for you a better perspective of how the movie in question is, before actually having seen it yourself. Or maybe I am just overly analytic and enjoy this little mindgames. My point wasn't really whether you should do that to your friends, or even if you could; my point is that such a study of the available data is impossible when you are talking about Doug Walker's preferences or some anonymous scores on a page. Art isn't democratic, so "consensus" is a lousy parameter to make assumptions beforehand, specially when available data is scarce (ie: when a movie hasn't been out for some days).

More importantly, my friends don't get to go to see the film in advance. I hate spoilers, and therefore any film I watch, I watch on its opening weekend (babysitter allowing, the Saturday matinée). I must make a decision before then, and I prefer it to be an informed decision if at all possible.

Oh, I have a similar policy. I just tend to also be wary of the critics or "popular receptions" too because I am that much skeptic.

... but then, neither am I. Rotten Tomatoes collected the opinions of over 300 critics for e.g. the Avengers. Surely in that mass there must be someone whose biases and likes matches yours, due to the law of large numbers if nothing else. Heck, I triangulate based on three different reviewers, whose opinions I've come to understand, and I know how to distill and combine them to accurately gage if I will enjoy a film or not based on what they say about the film. Do I always agree? Heck, no, not even close. But at the very least, I know that when they praise the bits I care about, I will agree with them.

I question how much "not average" you are. For me, being "not average" is somebody whose knowledge and experience from a special field is so specialized that it completely alienates him from the general consensus. It happens to me with music: It's not that I don't like popular music, it's that I like a very specific kind of music for very specific reasons (be it popular or not) so the general parameters on why people like it or not, generally don't apply to me. It applies to most forms of art, I think. That is what I call "not average taste". YOu may have it, then again not. My point was that certain kind of critics don't share such average parameters, for the sole reason they are "critics" and as such, experience art in a different way.

And, since you brought Rotten... Just take a look at this, and then look at this one other. See how utterly different the "Tomatometers" are (generated by "critics" or something like that) despite how practically equal the audience ratings are between the two movies? I never meant "the scores are nonsense period". I said they were questionable parameters, at best.

I agree with the audience, in the sense that JL and Thor were equally enjoyable, with similar amount of flaws, yet in very different aspects. But the critics think one is PURE GOLD and the other is PURE GARBAGE. We could debate why the eye of a critic is so different from the "real consensus"; but that's beside the point. My point is that a person shouldn't give a critic's opinion more value than it really has (which is, as a rule of thumb, too litttle for the average guy/gal). Yet some people still treat scores and critiques as the Holy Bible and you can see that much in the way they express their "opinions". It's not that it is a bad behaviour per se; but it is still a biased opinion. And I value much more a biased opinion when it really originated from the people that is actually supporting it. It's like loving Marvel/DC because they are Marvel/DC and everything else is garbage. I find such a mindset something worth no more than a sarcastic laugh.

For example, Jeremy Jahns was relatively happy with the Justice League. But the reasons why he was happy with it leave me cold, and the bits he highlighted as problematic concern me.

It happens to me a lot with YT critics. As a rule of thumb, I tend to agree on 90% of their points, but then there is THAT one movie they happen to hate/love and I beg to differ. Similar tastes don't always think alike and that's where the exceptions come from, IMO.

So, if I'm not 100% convinced of anything, I'm not going to do or pay for it until I've done some research, whether it is a movie, a flash drive, a game or otherwise.

Let me put it this way - story spoilers aside I don't go in to do ANYTHING blind, in any walk of unlife.

But do you agree the scale is really different, right? That was my point. Buying a game is a greater investment, so being more wary to invest only makes sense. You also get more fun from games than movies, for the simple reason the latter is a more ephymereal distraction. A movie is more worth the risk, for the same reason of scale. But again, it's up to you.

I never claimed going blindly about life is the right thing to do. I just think it's silly to overvalue the parameters given, before waiting an appropiate time when more useful data is available. I was referring to the claims of "ppl already says it sucks before it's release, so I SHALL NEVER WATCH IT EVER". There is a lot of people like that. Just go to any other thread, on any topic/movie/series, and they are all over the place with the hate-rethoric before the product was actually released and the masses have formed an actual informed opinion about it. That strikes me quite funny at best, kind of silly at worst.

I saw the movie....

Spoiler: Ragnarok

Show

Things That Don't Make Sense

*The Dr. Strange Timeline might be a bit off. Like Steven learns magic After The Avengers/The Battle of New York...so he becomes the Master of the Magic Arts in like a couple years?

A wizard did it.

*Thor seems a bit bewildered by Dr. Strange's magic....but Thor is from Asgard, a place full of magic.

It's sufficiently advanced technology, you silly. Also, they don't have "wizards" like that. Just the OdinForce. And illusionists. And Thunder-benders (?).

*Guess Dr. Strange just casts a ''Detect Odin'' spell?

It was a pointless plot device for a funny cameo. 50/50 whether it was worth or not, really.

*Hela as a child of Odin? That is a bit of a difference. Though I think Odin's sister would have been better.

Well, she is in fact the daughter of Loki (yeah, also in the comics). I think firstborn of Odin was fine.

*Why IS Hela so all powerful? Just as she is a daughter of Odin? Like she catches Mjolnir and destroys it...but how?

She is firstborn. And probably much much much much much much much olden than Loki and Thor.

*The Shocking Slave Item sure seems to take down Thor really fast. As powerful as Thor is, you'd expect him to have a bit more resistance. And if she did use the anti god slave item, she could have said so.

Yeah... that IS an issue in most Marvel movies. I grant you that.

*So....how did the quinjet the Hulk was in...um...fall through a portal and land on Sakaar.

A... wizard?

*How and Why is the Grandmasters Champion so secret and unknown as The Hulk? Sure it's just a ''surprise'' for..um...no one in the audience as we have all seen the trailers and such, but everyone on Sakaar should know who he is.

They... do. Did you miss all the banners (no pun) and apparel with his face on the crowd???

*And Loki has been on Sakaar for a while before Thor....and has never seen or heard of the Champion that has been there two years? Like he missed the thousands of Hulk Fans in the streets?

Watch the movie again. Loki spent just some days there. We don't know how often the matches are celebrated.

*Thor's new lightning powers are nice....but why does he not get more ''storm'' powers?

Because Marvel sucks. And for the Raiden reference

*Why does Thor run over to the quinjet? He can't fly a quinjet, right? He was never on Earth long enough to take a flight training course...and likely never would anyway. And quinjet's are not space ships....

Why not? Anyone can fly a quinjet. And they have some space autonomy.

*Hela is all powerful...but still needs the special sword to turn on the Rainbow Beam? She can't make her own key?

Stop questioning the McGuffin!

*I guess Valkyrie control device can deactivate every Slave Item on the planet?

Stop questioning the McGuffin!

*And they...somehow....teleport right to Asguard?

They took the Highway to Asgard. And yeah, it was dumb. It was that, or another 30 min of stupid jokes, so leave it just like that...

*Hela gets more power by just being in Asguard? Why?

Because she is a... QUEEEEEENNN, NOT DARK BUT BEAUTIFUL AND TERRIBLE AS THE DAAAAAAAWWNNN!!

*And why does Hela even attack and fight Sutur?

He ate all the cookies.

*Skurge hides in a cloak and gets on the space ship......then pulls two M-16's out of nowhere? It's not like he was wearing them the whole movie. Now, granted this is taken exactly right out of the comics...but still...

Fan service pocket-space

*Thor never even mentions all of his dead friends...or the MIA Sif.

I already ranted about that. It was stupid from the writers, but it's not like they had a choice. At least they didn't get the chance to actually kill her.

[Aotrs Commander]

I never claimed going blindly about life is the right thing to do. I just think it's silly to overvalue the parameters given, before waiting an appropiate time when more useful data is available. I was referring to the claims of "ppl already says it sucks before it's release, so I SHALL NEVER WATCH IT EVER". There is a lot of people like that. Just go to any other thread, on any topic/movie/series, and they are all over the place with the hate-rethoric before the product was actually released and the masses have formed an actual informed opinion about it. That strikes me quite funny at best, kind of silly at worst.

On the one hand, yes, people do that.

On the other hand, at the same time it is entirely possible to make a judgement on something without having experienced it. It was very clear from the trailer that Fan4stick was going to be grade-A fecal matter, and I was not remotely interested in seeing it (and that was borne out by later opinions of the poor souls who did).



And... Given that I have never (mercifully) been in a position where I have been to a movie I have hated or even thought was a waste of my time at the cinema, I must be doing something right.

[Velaryon]

I saw the movie....

Spoiler: Ragnarok

Show

Sutur is very wasted. As the Primordial Fire Demon, he is mostly played off as a joke, then a Monster Ex Macina.
Surtr, and he's a fire giant. Though in this context, I'm not sure that's a meaningful difference.

Loki is very much weakened in this movie to little more then comedy, or Thor's side kick. It would have been nice to see him fight and be tough like he was in the other movies.
I put this down to a combination of things. The shift in tone is partially because the first two Thor movies are among the least successful of the MCU, and partly to freshen up the characters for Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston. I agree Loki could have been portrayed stronger without losing his comedic value, though.

*The pacing is a bit off as Thor fights Sutur and then discovers Loki playing Odin and then they find Odin all very fast....like they just want to skip to Skarr.
They're trying to do a whole lot in a relatively short amount of time. The movie is 130 minutes as is, so they couldn't pad this out too much longer than they did.

*Thor seems a bit bewildered by Dr. Strange's magic....but Thor is from Asgard, a place full of magic.
While there's definitely some magic in Asgard, on the whole it seems to be more super-advanced technology than magic, and even then there isn't the breadth of magical ability that we see Dr. Strange display even in his brief scene. Plus Thor also seems astonished that humans are wielding this kind of power.

*Hela as a child of Odin? That is a bit of a difference. Though I think Odin's sister would have been better.
In actual Norse mythology, she's the daughter of Loki. If they're going to change that, seems to me "Odin's eldest child" is no better or worse than "Odin's sister."

*Why IS Hela so all powerful? Just as she is a daughter of Odin? Like she catches Mjolnir and destroys it...but how?
She's clearly not all powerful, but is extraordinarily powerful. The film establishes that she draws her power from Asgard itself, which evidently is why she is so much stronger than everyone else and why she gets stronger with time.

*So when Thor is tossed out of the Rainbow Beam.....does Hela drop him on the junkpile or does he randomly go there somehow?
The Bifrost is not exactly like a Star Trek-style transporter, even if it kind of looks that way. Rather than disappearing and reappearing without covering the distance in between, it seems to just create a corridor and then transport people through it at extreme speeds. When Thor fell through, he flew off in whatever direction his momentum carried him, and ended up on the junk planet by happenstance.

*Guess it is just pure unbelievable coincidence that Valkyrie, the Asgardian, just happens to be the one that finds Thor in the junkpile.
YMMV on how believable it is, but it does seem to be coincidence that he lands on the planet where she is able to find him.

*The Shocking Slave Item sure seems to take down Thor really fast. As powerful as Thor is, you'd expect him to have a bit more resistance. And if she did use the anti god slave item, she could have said so.
Agreed. An electric shock in particular is something I would expect the god of thunder to be highly resistant if not outright immune to. But it was being played for laughs, and accomplishes that well enough even if it does seem a bit unrealistic.

*So....how did the quinjet the Hulk was in...um...fall through a portal and land on Sakaar.
Last we saw in Age of Ultron, Hulk's quinjet was flying away and we had no idea where it was going. I don't remember what this film showed us in terms of what happened to it, but presumably it encountered an unexpected portal and/or Hulk lost control. I wouldn't expect Hulk to be a particularly good pilot.

*How and Why is the Grandmasters Champion so secret and unknown as The Hulk? Sure it's just a ''surprise'' for..um...no one in the audience as we have all seen the trailers and such, but everyone on Sakaar should know who he is.
I didn't get the impression that it was a surprise to anyone but Thor and Loki.

*Thor's new lightning powers are nice....but why does he not get more ''storm'' powers?
He's the god of thunder, remember, so in theory these powers have been his all along, but he has always relied primarily on his hammer before and never stretched these powers to their fullest. What other "storm" powers would you want him to have, exactly?

*Unlike all other films, The Hulk here can talk and have a conversation....at least on the level of a child. This is new. Yet Thor never even mentions it.
As far as we know, this is the first time Hulk has been in control for this length of time, especially in non-combat situations where he's not purely reacting to things that make him angry. It makes sense that he displays more linguistic capability than we've seen before. It is perhaps a bit weird that Thor doesn't blink an eye at this, but Thor's got a lot going on, after all.

*Thor sure becomes all sneaky, crafty and stealthy all of a sudden to escape.
He's been disarmed of his primary tool and rendered in a situation where brute force doesn't work. It's definitely not his forte, but he's had plenty of experience over the years to the point where he can at least try to think "How would Loki get out of this?"

*Why does Thor run over to the quinjet? He can't fly a quinjet, right? He was never on Earth long enough to take a flight training course...and likely never would anyway. And quinjet's are not space ships....
He goes for the vehicle he has some familiarity with first. As for how it got there, we don't know whether he can portal-hop back to Asgard without needing to travel through space. At the very least, it should be able to get him to Earth since Hulk got here.

*Hela is all powerful...but still needs the special sword to turn on the Rainbow Beam? She can't make her own key?
She isn't all powerful. She's shown to be the most powerful (at least now that Odin's gone), but she is not omnipotent. She's a goddess of death, so why would that include making a new key to the Bifrost?

*And they...somehow....teleport right to Asguard?
I guess the Quinjet could have handled it after all, had it been in better repair anyway.

*And Thor's plan is to...um...just attack Hela?
He's gotten a bit cleverer over the years, but he's no genius.

*Hela gets more power by just being in Asguard? Why?
We're told early on that she draws her power from Asgard itself. I don't know why that is, but how much would it really add to explain just how she draws her strength from Asgard?

*Thor's new lightning power is cool...but it must not be so great as it only knocks Hela down...
She's still the most powerful Asgardian, with homefield advantage since she's drawing power from the land itself.

*And Sutur becomes more powerful then Hela why exactly...other then they needed an ending?
Prophecy junk, mostly.

*And why does Hela even attack and fight Sutur?
He's destroying the place she has claimed for herself.

*The space ship sure has a lot of room for all the escaped gladiators and lots of Asguardians.
It was a pretty darn big ship.

*Thor never even mentions all of his dead friends...or the MIA Sif.
It would have been nice, but I suspect his lack of reaction to the death of the Warriors Three is due to the film already being pretty long. Sif's absence is because of scheduling conflicts with the actress I believe, so they probably just brushed that under the rug in case they want to use her again later.

Gave my responses in bold within the quote, and deleted the ones I didn't have anything to say about.

[theNater]

Wanted to go over a few of these, because there's some theme work that I think is being glossed over.

Spoiler: Ragnarok

Show

*So when Thor is tossed out of the Rainbow Beam.....does Hela drop him on the junkpile or does he randomly go there somehow?

*Guess it is just pure unbelievable coincidence that Valkyrie, the Asgardian, just happens to be the one that finds Thor in the junkpile.

*So....how did the quinjet the Hulk was in...um...fall through a portal and land on Sakaar.

*And they...somehow....teleport right to Asguard?

Spoiler

Show

Sakaar is a junk pile because it's surrounded by portals through which junk regularly falls. Indeed, there are so many portals that when Thor gets in contact with Heimdall, he has to ask which of the many portals will get him back to Asgard fastest. Heimdall tells him to use the biggest one, which we later learn is called the Devil's Anus. Flying through that portal does indeed put them very near Asgard; directly below it. They appear to be travelling upward(whatever that means in this space context) on the Bifrost when Hela kicks them out, so it's not super surprising that they would fall "down" into that portal, as would any detritus that gets dropped off of Asgard, or goes over the waterfalls around its edge.

Sakaar is a crappy place because it is constantly being crapped on by other places, with Asgard being the single largest offender. The name "Devil's Anus" isn't just a joke; it's another example of how Asgard is keeping itself strong and beautiful at the expense of other realms.

[Iruka]

Saw the movie yesterday. Complete nonsense. I loved it.

[Frozen_Feet]

Saw the movie yesterday. Complete nonsense. I loved it.

Someone gets it.

It was about time they realized Space Vikings are an inherently funny concept. All that gold in Asgard? Comedy gold.

[GloatingSwine]

Also, making Loki the closest thing the film has to a Straight Man was great.

[lord_khaine]

Also, making Loki the closest thing the film has to a Straight Man was great.

Loki was awesome. The actor did an amazing job showing off emotional depth. Did like all the times Loki actually seemed conflicted.

[The Glyphstone]

I actually enjoyed Thor's character growth in that he finally figured out his brother has Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, and planned ahead for it.

[The Troubadour]

That part was good. Loki outgrowing his constant need to backstab Thor was also well-done.

[Anteros]

That part was good. Loki outgrowing his constant need to backstab Thor was also well-done.

Does he though? I'm assuming the reason Thanos shows up in the post credits scene is related to Loki stopping to look at the Tesseract in an earlier scene. I'd say the backstabbing hasn't stopped at all.

[GloatingSwine]

Does he though? I'm assuming the reason Thanos shows up in the post credits scene is related to Loki stopping to look at the Tesseract in an earlier scene. I'd say the backstabbing hasn't stopped at all.

Loki almost certainly pocketed the Tesseract without telling anyone because who knows when he might need it, but I doubt he's been on the blower to Thanos to tell him to come and pick it up.

[Cikomyr]

Thor learning and anticipating his brother's backstabbing disorder and Loki learning to live past it is strangely reminiscent of people getting out of abusive relationship/learn to grow past the abusive behavior; on both parts.

The abuser realising how much he is doing wrong to his beloved with his behavior, and learns to stop. Or at least, wants to learn.

[Cikomyr]

By the way, anyone here rewatched Thor 1 recently?

Odin's decision to banish Thor for his warmongering lust suddenly makes a lot more sense once you put it in perspective of Hela's banishment, and the reasons behind it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, that was a nice callback. Further proof that Odin sucks as a father, though. All three of the kids he's raised are thoroughly messed up, at least at the start.

Wonder who we're getting next time. Tyr? Balder? Idunn might make a nice switch from another combat badass.

[Cikomyr]

Yeah, that was a nice callback. Further proof that Odin sucks as a father, though. All three of the kids he's raised are thoroughly messed up, at least at the start.

Wonder who we're getting next time. Tyr? Balder? Idunn might make a nice switch from another combat badass.

Any of them part of the Marvel canon?

New Asgardian adventures might be cool. It's sad, but Thor has reached the natural end of his Journey that he set out in the original Thor.

He has grown into the King his father wished him to be; maybe not as wise as Odin, but a more moral one. Thor's story is over.

That doesnt mean he shouldn't make lots of future movie appearances. Just like Iron Man's completed journey in Iron Man 3, Stark has grown into an antagonist and a mentor figure into other moves. I feel seeing these previous protagonists pick up new roles to be great.

Maybe a Loki movie? It would be nice to have the first Marvel Antihero movie.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Any of them part of the Marvel canon?

If you mean comics, oh heck yes. Not sure about the MCU.

Also, the entire Greco-Roman pantheon exists in Marvel comics because of Hercules. And several members of the Egyptian and Mesopotamian pantheons, likewise.

They can be making movies on the Deific-Cosmic side of the MCU for years.

[GrayDeath]

Maybe a Loki movie? It would be nice to have the first Marvel Antihero movie.

While that would most certainly rock, I dont think they are going to do it.

Also at this moment in time, Loki is less Anti and more Prota than ... just about ever, so ... bad timing i guess?

[Talakeal]

Just saw the movie again, Skurge definetly had the assault rifles slung over his shoulders for the bridge sequence before getting on the transport.

There are a couple of shots where they seem to dissapear, but these are very brief and likely the same type of minor continuity errors that every film contains.

[Eldan]

So, I assume Skurge is important in the comics for something? That's the only explanation I have for why people are talking about him. He seemed entirely pointless in the movie for anything other than "Someone for Hel to explain things to".

[Kato]

So, I assume Skurge is important in the comics for something? That's the only explanation I have for why people are talking about him. He seemed entirely pointless in the movie for anything other than "Someone for Hel to explain things to".

Kind of.. Iirc he's more associated with the enchantress than Hel but he is a kind of prominent guy.. But yeah, he was pretty pointless in the movie.

[Lord Joeltion]

Kind of.. Iirc he's more associated with the enchantress than Hel but he is a kind of prominent guy.. But yeah, he was pretty pointless in the movie.

He was also downplayed a lot. It's as if it was the Smurfs version of The Executioner. Not to say he isn't the only downplayed character from the comics in a MCU movie, but still

[Dienekes]

So, I assume Skurge is important in the comics for something? That's the only explanation I have for why people are talking about him. He seemed entirely pointless in the movie for anything other than "Someone for Hel to explain things to".

He’s kind of Thor’s version of Kraven the Hunter. A C-list villain that got one of the most well loved comics of their respective franchises that gave them a huge fan following.

Skurge in the movie is just a pale shadow. But that’s kind of expected. To get his arc right would have required at least an additional movie of set up. Maybe if he and Enchantress were the villains of Thor 2. But as it was, they managed to show his death facing the hordes of Hela while having none of the emotional depth of the Last Stand of Gjallerbru.

[Mikemical]

After seeing the movie, I can say it's a very good superhero comedy. Reminds me of Kickass.

I felt the tone of the movie was way too light, considering that it was supposed to deal with something as grave as the destruction of Asgard, and the buildup to it in Thor: The Dark World and Age of Ultron made it feel as if it would be super gritty, The Dark Knight-like, instead of Guardians of the Galaxy 1.5.

It was a good movie, and I gotta give Waititi some props from making it so big, I just didn't expect we would be having jokes about Hulk's big green third leg.

[GloatingSwine]

So, I assume Skurge is important in the comics for something? That's the only explanation I have for why people are talking about him. He seemed entirely pointless in the movie for anything other than "Someone for Hel to explain things to".

Skurge was never really all that important, but he had a cool death back when that meant something.

[lord_khaine]

It was a good movie, and I gotta give Waititi some props from making it so big, I just didn't expect we would be having jokes about Hulk's big green third leg.

There is no such thing as a bad time for that

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
Loki almost certainly pocketed the Tesseract without telling anyone because who knows when he might need it….

Yup, confirmed by the Infinity War teaser.

[Anteros]

Well, we know from the trailer that Loki has the Tessathingy, Darkseid (sorry, Thanos) shows up at the end of Thor, then Thanos has the space stone later in the movie, so he must get it from Loki somehow.

So either Thanos is going to force Loki to hand it over, or Loki has betrayed Thor yet again.