Villainous Competition XX: Elder Evil

[GrayDeath]

Phew that took longer than I had hopwed....

Spoiler: Miguel Two Stride 16.5

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Originality: Well, aside from the always expected Human Wizard (probably the, counting only players, most used combination ever^^) you aptly combine classes to do something not normally possible...without obvious cheese.
Take 4 points



Elegance: No Dips, no templates (aside from the one the class gives you), no strange classmix to get something, all clear, concise and legal. Southern magician is a bit weird, but Eberron can be argued to fit a lot of stuff by exporting it to another of the Continents, so no large penalty here.

4.5 Points


Power. A Construct Wizard gains a lot of immunities, your prestige classes offer nice adaptable nonus abilities, and aside from some typical construct weaknesses you do what you intend to do (being a blaster/Shaper) very very well.

4.25pts





Memorability:

Nice if a bit inconsistant fluff, great in both actual adaptability and memorable signature ones, good so far!
Only subtractions are its extreme Eberron—Focus and the fact that at lower levels he is not even half as memorable as later on. Still a good
3.75

Total: 16.5

Spoiler: Henry Bowyer 14.0

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Originality:

A Commoner? What? Unexpected Score very high, never seen playerd score very high, Score for „Expected in this comp“ very high.
Lowered only by being single class and not doing much (all of it is IT after all^^) by .5 pts

Still, 4.5 it is



Elegance: Single Class, a bit strange in regard to get rid (!!) of Skillpoints, but npthing illegal I can see.
4.75



Power:

And we reach your worst part. Htere is effectively nothing Henry himself can do well, and since we are not judging IT (luckily, its after all a bit homebrewed^^), all I can give you here is a measly 2.0


Memorability: And here we have a conundrum. This Villain depends IMMENSELY on the players having a personal connection to him/the City/Village. If they do, he will be very memorable, if they dont....he`s a Commoner. That does nothing well, looks ordinary and dies quickly.

I am giving you the average of both here: 2,75

Total: 13.5

Spoiler: The Crimson Baroness 14,25

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Originality: Expected Race, but unexpected Template (see Elegance) and Class Combo (Dont see Wu Jen all that often). Standard Cliche Fluff.

3.25


Elegance: The Obvious Dip for obvious reasons hurts you as well as becoming a Vampire at 1 HD (Spawn Territory), but the rest is all legal and not convoluted.

3.75

Power: Versatile Casting, check. Versatile Vampire Powers, Check. Necrotic Cyst and Umbral Shennannigans? Check.
Does what its supposed to do really well, adds a large bunch of „if thats not possible, I also can...“ to the bat. Power good, versatility excellent, makes for a great

4.5


Memorability: Its another Vampire. Out for Revenge/hunting for Power/Love/whatever, And its an Elf on top of that, who made a pact with darker Powers. Its hard to get more clichee than that, but being so clicheed DOES help less attentive players to remember it, so its not a total disaster.

2.75


Total: 14,25

Spoiler: The Warden of Reality 17,5

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Originality: A Doppelganger that actually wants to prevent people from causing massive bad things by delving too deep into better left forgotten Realms? Thats new, Warshaper and chamaeleon not that much. Interesting and unusual concept overall though, I like it!

3.75


Elegance: No Dips, no Template, no cheese (just an oversight, being that you cant bind naberius, bind vestige does not work that way). Otherwise I cant see anything wrong with it, so

4.5


Power: Near limitless Shapechange abilities rock hard, your casting is relatively low in power but also very versatile. For me almost the ultimate example of „does not rock in its area, but is good everywhere“ that you so rarely see in optimization threads.

4.5


Memorability: A recurring/ressuracting villain that can come yt the group in almost any shape? That has a unique motivation thats actually quite easy to find out? That can work in almost any setting and/or adventure, even if its EE is not (yet) central?
Yses, please! Close to maximum here.

4,75


Total: 17.5

Spoiler: Captain Kelvin Sifuri 11,00

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Originality:

OK, thats a wild ride of varius classes, templates and the fluff and mechanic of punishing people for Being good at knowledge checks? Really went all out here, impressive, if inelegant (see below). PTS for unexpected.... everything but the marshal Dip and Human Paragon are good here.

4.0

Elegance. And the other side of the coin. Wow thats messed up. Dipping, Templating, wild jumping of classes. All that would still leave you a 2.x, but you took Leadership, and sadly thats a complete nogo.
If we had a more detailed prohibition (say no Leadership shenannigans) it would not hurt in this case, but its a clear „dont do it“, so I have to give you minimum score here.

1.0


Power: He is insanely good at his main shtick....but needs magic Items (I`ll allow the Truenamer ones free of charge, because...Truenamer!) to do it, and since your Leadership is not there you`ll need to spend massive amounts of money/time/etc for them. Also outside his main shtick he`s a reasonably competent guy, but he has not much Power going on (the bane of Truenamer).
This was a hard one, at the end I decided the closest was a

3.0



Memorability.
Great Mechanics to be remembered. Can hear players cursing that check that made them lose it for ages^^ Very little fluff/personality/style though.

3.0


Total: 11.00

Spoiler: Karen Greyspark 17,5

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Originality: Ilumian Wizard, that deducts, but Planeshifter? Geometer? What? Never seen any of those played and did not expect them here. Intersting overall concept interactions, and quite unique (if totally bonkers) motivation.

4.0


Elegance: No Flaws, no Dips, no Cheese, no Illegalities. Perfect score.

5.0


Power: 9th Level Casting, emtamagic and Versatility on top, ways to prevent almost any weakness from being an issue and plenty of ways to deal with just about anything.
Very very good.

4.75


Memorability:

Central and understandable motivation, possibility for the players to actually prevent the apocalypse by HELPING her achieve her goals differently/faster, mechanically memorably due to sigils, summoning, flexibility. Good as well, if not outstanding.


3,75

Total: 17.50

Post script: The fact that while reading this one I instantly thought of using it in a campaign helped too. ^^
Honorable Mention for Karen!

[remetagross]

3 judges for 6 contestants, we're being well taken care of :) thank you GrayDeath!

[Thurbane]

Disputes part four:

Hi GreyDeath! Thanks for the judging, we get a wide array of opinions now

I submitted Henry, and I'd like to discuss about a few of your remarks about him.

Originality:

Lowered only by being single class

To be fair, I don't understand why this would be a negative aspect when it comes to originality.
About the idea of a single-classed villain, regardless of what class it is, I find it somewhat less common than a build that works off one base class followed by one or two prestige classes. I can get the idea that taking a single class does not give the opportunity to bring on a greater amount of exotic classes. But on the other hand, I'd say that taking a class from 1 to 20 is exotic per se. This not RHD 10/Commoner 10, this is Commoner 20
And then among those mono-class builds, how common is it to see a Commoner 20 ?

and not doing much (all of it is IT after all^^)

Here again, I don't get why that would warrant an originality penalty.
If you're talking about "not doing much" in a mechanical, combat-wise meaning, that would be a power penalty, sure, I'd completely agree with that! And you did not miss to do that by the way
If this is "not doing much" by which you mean that Henry's actions do not really make the plot move forward since he is so passive, and rather, It's do... well, I'd agree with you as well. Indeed, Henry is quite passive for an Elder Evil servant. But I'd argue that this, precisely, is original in its own right: look, in all of the 9 Elder Evils presented in the namesake book, the main villain NPC is each and every time the one that moves the campaign forward, that awakens/bring home the Elder Evil, etc. Here, on the contrary, you have a particularly active Elder Evil, and for which the servant is not willing, but rather forced out. I feel it gives Henry a special vibe that makes him stand out

Memorability:

This Villain depends IMMENSELY on the players having a personal connection to him/the City/Village. If they do, he will be very memorable, if they dont....he`s a Commoner.

Indeed. Without that link, Henry is indeed fairly bland. But I've thought about this too, and provided a plot tool tailor-made to solve this issue:

If necessary, shorten the 27-year-long cycle so that even the youngest PC was 9 or 10 (for a human - make it appropriately younger or older for another race) last time it happened - while preventing anyone from incurring aging penalties. That can be worked out seamlessy without even having to ask the PCs to say anything specific in their background. If the PCs prefer to declare that they all know each other before the campaign begins, let's decide that in fact, It only erased the memories about their fight and not about their relationships. The only needed thing is PCs who have roughly the same age, either by player decision, or player authorisation to let you decide that.

Since the PCs have forgotten everything about It in their childhood, they also have forgotten about Henry. They also do not remember that they come from the same city, except if the players have already worked that out OOC, which makes things easier but you can make do without. The system is flexible! That means that you, as the DM, can effortlessly work Henry and Eldorry into their backstory - without even telling your players about this. In fact, you don't even need any particular backstory from them either: you can always invent a set of circumstances that adapts to each and every PC's background, that allows them to all have met up and faced Henry in their youth. Since they have no memories of that, anyway. No need for a complete rewrite: you just need to justify how the PCs have spent about two months together when they were kids.
That might be a little difficult if all the PCs do not start in the same age category or have grown in different planes, but in 90 % of the cases, there will be no problems here.
And then, when the time is ripe, at the beginning of the adventure, the party encounters Henry. And there, their memories snap back:

Only when they see him do the PCs remember. They remember Henry, and they remember part of their shared childhood.

And you make them play the flashback encounter. That allows the PCs to immediately work upon the piece of backstory you just brought forth: by catapulting the PCs right into that invented background, you let them get familiar with it, and customise it. What you say is "And then, you remember that month you spent in Eldorry being chased by mad Henry as kids...", no more is needed. Since you give the players an opportunity to act into this generic frame, they won't feel robbed or dispossed of their backstory. Let the magic of roleplaying roll along. At the end of the flashback session, this will have turned into "You remember that freezing cold winter in Eldorry's nearby forest you spent hiding in the club's secret hideout while Henry was tracking you around, and that one particular time when Erik shot a snowball with a rock inside right in Henry's eye (which is when he decided he would later become a Master Thrower), which drove him threateningly enraged, and then Reedrom managed to talk him down by mentioning that she knew Henry was supposed to be working out in the farm at the moment and that she would tell his father if he didn't let them go and..."
This is the best part: the players get to create in which ways they will remember Henry. So I'd advocate for a higher mark in memorability as well

[Tiri]

Thanks for the judging, GrayDeath! So, since you said you'd tell after the judging was done, which were the two entries you felt like using?

[GrayDeath]

Karen, as I had a remotely similar concept in mind for an upcoming campaign but this way it was finished to use (and quite franky better than the one I had), and Henry, if I ever ran an adventure where everybody had common roots/came from the same city.

Also maybe the Captain, for sheer ludicrousness of "you know, and that is why you fall", now that I think about it. ;)

[Thurbane]

Once these are wrapped up we can hopefully move on to the next round...

Disputes part five:

Single Class is, no matter how unexpected the Class itself, not as original as a combination of unexpected classes. So I cannot give you full points here but...
You know, you are right. Subtracting a full point from Originality was too much.
Score increased by .5.


As for the Memorability: again, it can be worked in like that, but its not Villain as memorable as, say, the Warlord who conquered all of the realms the player Characters are from 17 years ago, or the guy who caused a 1 year solar Eclipse or....

its not a question of "is he cool if I get the players to be from there and care", its also about how easy he is to get to be memorable.

No change here.

Total +0.5. I`ll edit my Judging Post.

PS: I still like him, it was a close Call for the Honorable Mention. ;)

Hello, Buufreak. Thank you for judging.

So, about the Half-Fey thing, I built the Warden with the template, but I also advanced his HD by one too many and that increased his CR so that the template would actually put him at CR 21 at the end of his progression. I also forgot to note that he had the template in the 'Race' section of the entry. I hope that clarifies things for you. This entry had a lot of little mistakes like that, actually, which I feel a bit bad about.

One thing I would actually like to dispute is the Memorability score you gave the Warden. True, 4 is already a good score, but Karen has the same score, and I can't help but feel that the Warden has more original goals and motivations compared to her. While his methods are extreme, he is doing something unselfish and trying to guard against a real threat, while Karen is ultimately causing large amounts of destruction just trying to save a loved one, not uncommon for villains. Unless the PCs somehow fight villains without ever discovering what drives their villainy, I think this should get the Warden a higher Memorability than Karen.

[remetagross]

If I had to throw my Honorable Mention vote in the ballot, it'd go for Kelvin. This is the most unexpectedly creative and original piece of PO, bordering on TO,, that I've seen in a long time! :D

[ben-zayb]

My HM also goes to Kelvin. It's been a few days and I still get that stupid grin on my face whenever I think of what creativity went through this character design.

[Tiri]

Wait, GrayDeath, did you use a dispute to respond to a dispute? You don't need to do that since judges aren't anonymous, you know.

I'll give my vote for Honorable Mention to Captain Sifuri too, I think.

Also, here's a table.

Entry Name	Creator	Inevitability's Scoring	Buufreak's Scoring	GrayDeath's Scoring	Total Score	Current Placement
Miguel Two-Stride	Unknown	13.00	12.50	16.50	42.00	4th
Henry Bowyer	Unknown	14.50	17.25	14.00	45.75	3rd
The Crimson Baroness	Unknown	13.25	14.00	14.25	41.50	5th
The Warden of Reality	Unknown	17.25	15.50	17.50	50.25	1st
Captain Kelvin Sifuri	Unknown	08.75	08.75	11.00	28.50	6th
Karen Greyspark	Unknown	15.75	16.25	17.50	49.50	2nd

[danielxcutter]

Backing the Captain as HM too.

[GrayDeath]

Wait, GrayDeath, did you use a dispute to respond to a dispute? You don't need to do that since judges aren't anonymous, you know.

I'll give my vote for Honorable Mention to Captain Sifuri too, I think.

Also, here's a table.

Entry Name	Creator	Inevitability's Scoring	Buufreak's Scoring	GrayDeath's Scoring	Total Score	Current Placement
Miguel Two-Stride	Unknown	13.00	12.50	16.50	42.00	4th
Henry Bowyer	Unknown	14.50	17.25	14.00	45.75	3rd
The Crimson Baroness	Unknown	13.25	14.00	14.25	41.50	5th
The Warden of Reality	Unknown	17.25	15.50	17.50	50.25	1st
Captain Kelvin Sifuri	Unknown	08.75	08.75	11.00	28.50	6th
Karen Greyspark	Unknown	15.75	16.25	17.50	49.50	2nd

well, duh, was I tired (or dumb) doing so.....:P

Also thanks for the table.

[Thurbane]

Wait, GrayDeath, did you use a dispute to respond to a dispute? You don't need to do that since judges aren't anonymous, you know.

Oops, missed that myself!

I'll give it a little longer fro Buufreak to reply to the final dispute, then we'll have the final reveal.

[ben-zayb]

Since we'll be doing Pirates next, I wonder how procuring a pirate vessel (if any) can be done with NPC WBL. I mean I could've sworn even stealing one still counts for that.

[Telonius]

Since we'll be doing Pirates next, I wonder how procuring a pirate vessel (if any) can be done with NPC WBL. I mean I could've sworn even stealing one still counts for that.

I think in this case, those WBL rules...?

[danielxcutter]

I think in this case, those WBL rules...?

Plus it's possible for some character to literally make one out of thin air. Maybe even actual thin air.

[khadgar567]

i dont wanna give idea but did bandana become temporary owner of ship in comics so good old mutiny can solve we dont have ship issue portion of the fluff if you ask me.

[danielxcutter]

i dont wanna give idea but did bandana become temporary owner of ship in comics so good old mutiny can solve we dont have ship issue portion of the fluff if you ask me.

Now, now. No throwing around theories before the round even starts.

[khadgar567]

Now, now. No throwing around theories before the round even starts.

no theory mate just question to ask and i am not gonna compete any way

[Buufreak]

Sorry guys, I didn't even notice the dispute while skimming or I'd already have it done!

Okay Warden, memorability for me isn't a single thing, it's the total package. It's that warm feeling I get when I finish reading it and it sticks around with me, giving me a goofy smile. Does that make sense? If it does, then I hope you can understand that while somewhat hard to quantify, I felt fairly the same level of the warm fuzzies from these two builds, despite their subtle and far less subtle differences.

[Nodsiu]

Why even bother with disputes? It is first already.

[Deadline]

Why even bother with disputes? It is first already.

Because disputes are more about correctness and understanding than the rankings in this silly little internet contest of ours.

[Thurbane]

Without further ado, here's the final reveal.

Entry Name	Creator	Inevitability's Scoring	Buufreak's Scoring	GrayDeath's Scoring	Total Score	Final Placement
The Warden of Reality	Tiri	17.25	15.50	17.50	50.25	1st
Karen Greyspark	Telonius	15.75	16.25	17.50	49.50	2nd
Henry Bowyer	remetagross	14.50	17.25	14.00	45.75	3rd
Miguel Two-Stride	Venger	13.00	12.50	16.50	42.00	4th
The Crimson Baroness	The Viscount	13.25	14.00	14.25	41.50	5th
Captain Kelvin Sifuri	daremetoidareyo	08.75	08.75	11.00	28.50	6th

Congrats to all entrants, especially the the place getters, and daremetoidareyo for HM. Also, a massive thank you to our judges.

New comp will be up soon(ish).

[danielxcutter]

Congrats, everyone. This round was awesome.

[zergling.exe]

1st and 2nd place are nearly unreadable for me, especially 2nd place. Anyone else have problems making it out?

[danielxcutter]

1st and 2nd place are nearly unreadable for me, especially 2nd place. Anyone else have problems making it out?

I suppose it would be better if you changed yellow and light gray into gold and dark gray... seriously, for some reason light-colored letters are hard to make out.

[Thurbane]

1st and 2nd place are nearly unreadable for me, especially 2nd place. Anyone else have problems making it out?

*sigh* I can't win. When I changed it previously for this exact reason, people complained that the placings weren't in the "proper colours".

Just highlight the text with your mouse, it becomes readable.

...there's times when I wonder why I even do this.

[danielxcutter]

*sigh* I can't win. When I changed it previously for this exact reason, people complained that the placing weren't in the "proper colours".

Just highlight the text with your mouse, it becomes readable.

...there's times when I wonder why I even do this.

...You did? Sorry, didn't mean to be such a whiner.

[Thurbane]

...You did? Sorry, didn't mean to be such a whiner.

All good. That wasn't directed at you as such.

I may have overreacted.

Sometimes though, the pedantry of some forum members and complaining about how I run the comp gets to me.

[danielxcutter]

I'm sorry to hear that.

[Tiri]

I have an idea. To prevent this kind of complaining, why not highlight the cells instead of the text? It makes things a lot clearer.

Like so:

Entry Name	Creator	Inevitability's Scoring	Buufreak's Scoring	GrayDeath's Scoring	Total Score	Final Placement
The Warden of Reality	Tiri	17.25	15.50	17.50	50.25	1st
Karen Greyspark	Telonius	15.75	16.25	17.50	49.50	2nd
Henry Bowyer	remetagross	14.50	17.25	14.00	45.75	3rd
Miguel Two-Stride	Venger	13.00	12.50	16.50	42.00	4th
The Crimson Baroness	The Viscount	13.25	14.00	14.25	41.50	5th
Captain Kelvin Sifuri	daremetoidareyo	08.75	08.75	11.00	28.50	6th