Will we find out Thrym's secret?

[Mad Humanist]

Specifically is this whole entanglement with the frost giants going to advance the plot by getting us the low-down on what Thrym is upto? They aren't out of the mountains yet. Roy and Elan need to handle the giantess; resolve the Bandana/Andi debacle; retrieve Roy's sword; rejoin the party. With all that going on there is plenty of scope for more interaction with minions of Thrym.

[Kish]

I think giving Thrym's motivations more exposition than they've already received (very strong hinting at being allied with Hel, and "My reasons are my own") would be a sidetrack in the plot, not advancement of it.

[Jasdoif]

Specifically is this whole entanglement with the frost giants going to advance the plot by getting us the low-down on what Thrym is upto?

Probably not. The entanglement is preventing the transit from the Godsmoot to Firmament from being glossed over and time-skipped; it's setting up conditions for a new subplot.


Short term aside, whether getting specifics on Thrym's plan would be advancement...depends entirely on what those specifics are and whether they can be used to influence events. Odds are extremely high that Thrym's actions are specifically supposed to support Hel, and Hel isn't the active antagonist here. HPoH is, and he isn't going to be in a position to question Thrym's motives without challenging his commitment to Hel. And if he does that, Thrym's intentions won't be that significant.

So while it's certainly possible it's going to have the potential for plot advancement, my guess is that such a reveal will be more of a payoff than a way forward...if it ever happens at all.

[Keltest]

I think giving Thrym's motivations more exposition than they've already received (very strong hinting at being allied with Hel, and "My reasons are my own") would be a sidetrack in the plot, not advancement of it.

Indeed. I read that as "Hel paid me to do it, and I don't want to come out and admit it"

[Peelee]

Indeed. I read that as "Hel paid me to do it, and I don't want to come out and admit it"

Thirded.

Wheeeeeeee!

[Mad Humanist]

Indeed. I read that as "Hel paid me to do it, and I don't want to come out and admit it"

So clearly if Thyrm turns out to have a plot-relevant reason of his own, people on this thread will have been well and truly played.

[Yendor]

I've said it before: I think Thrym has a grudge against Thor. Thor is an enemy of the frost giants, and Thrym would be more than happy to help Hel take him down a notch.

[BroomGuys]

I could see a more intricate political dynamic among the Northern Gods developing, in which case Thrym's motivations would play a significant role in that development. I won't go so far as to say that's likely, though.

[Sithrak]

Specifically is this whole entanglement with the frost giants going to advance the plot by getting us the low-down on what Thrym is up to?

I'd be surprised if we never get any further details about Thyrm's motivation ("my reasons are my own" is a pretty good setup for a later reveal), but I don't see any reason to think it's any more likely that we'll get them sooner rather than later. I suppose one of Thrym's minions could let it slip, but it's not clear they know anything more than "we were ordered to attack this ship." It could just as well be Durkon* who reveals what's going on with Thrym in a bit of evil gloating (whether to Roy or the captured soul of Durkon). I wouldn't bet on it being absolutely critical information either, even if it's interesting when we find out. Not all reveals are created equal.

[sparkyinbozo]

Realistically? Probably about 14-16 months out. I expect we will find out, but not for a while.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I think giving Thrym's motivations more exposition than they've already received (very strong hinting at being allied with Hel, and "My reasons are my own") would be a sidetrack in the plot, not advancement of it.

So clearly if Thyrm turns out to have a plot-relevant reason of his own, people on this thread will have been well and truly played.

But I thought there never were any sidetracks in the plot? That things going on in the comic are always the main plot and never a diversion of any kind, right? At least, that's what people generally argue against anyone who thinks that this book's plotline against Lurkon is some kind of big diversion from the quest against Xykon.

If we find out what Thrym's reasoning is, it will probably be in passing and not as a big, momentous revelation. It probably really is "Hel bribed/enticed me to do it, and I'm too pathologically secretive to tell all of you", combined with wanting a bigger piece of the Northern Pantheon pie than his current demigodhood, which would be possible in the whole process of jockeying for power while destroying and remaking the world. Thrym is probably too loyal to Hel to be able to convince him to break away from her side, so really, would it be worth reasoning with him at all?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But I thought there never were any sidetracks in the plot? That things going on in the comic are always the main plot and never a diversion of any kind, right? At least, that's what people generally argue against anyone who thinks that this book's plotline against Lurkon is some kind of big diversion from the quest against Xykon.

Not, what "people" argue is that, as per the words of the author, the plot is "these are the adventures of the Order of the Stick". Xykon, the gates, Durkon*, etc are all in service of the plot: to see how the Order of the Stick members change in response to the various challenges they face - MacGuffins to get the Order moving. Therefore, this book is not "a sidetrack" since it is still advancing the character-based plot. It would only be a sidetrack if the book abandoned the Order to tell the story of a minor character - i.e. if the entire book was devoted to Andi's story.

Thankfully, it is not. The plot is still front and center.

Grey Wolf

[Rogar Demonblud]

The closest things to sidetracks are when we cut to Team Evil or the Azurite Resistance. Cuts to O-Chul are just paying proper respect to the Avatar of Awesome.

[Kish]

But I thought there never were any sidetracks in the plot? That things going on in the comic are always the main plot and never a diversion of any kind, right? At least, that's what people generally argue against anyone who thinks that this book's plotline against Lurkon is some kind of big diversion from the quest against Xykon.

Congratulations. Give yourself whatever prize you want for winning in whatever contest you're trying to win in.

I do confess, however, that I don't really get how anything that's been seriously argued relates to this thread's expressed desire to learn the inner motivations of a minor villain who appeared in one panel.

I suppose if you consider all villains either Xykon (and thus worthy of appearing) or Not-Xykon (and thus not worthy of appearing), "the Order fighting the vampire spirit currently possessing one of them" and "the audience finding out about a secret held by the God of Frost Giants" look interchangeable, rather like Blood Runs in the Family (a book dedicated to the Order fighting Tarquin) is functionally just the same as a book dedicated to the backstory of the lizardfolk sex worker with the implants.

[Riftwolf]

Given the impatience the forums have for Hels plan, somehow I doubt Thryms plan will get much air time.
Unless Rich hands over the Comic to Scheherazade.

[woweedd]

Not, what "people" argue is that, as per the words of the author, the plot is "these are the adventures of the Order of the Stick". Xykon, the gates, Durkon*, etc are all in service of the plot: to see how the Order of the Stick members change in response to the various challenges they face - MacGuffins to get the Order moving. Therefore, this book is not "a sidetrack" since it is still advancing the character-based plot. It would only be a sidetrack if the book abandoned the Order to tell the story of a minor character - i.e. if the entire book was devoted to Andi's story.

Thankfully, it is not. The plot is still front and center.

Grey Wolf

Lots of people, including Mr. Necro here, seen to not realize that OOTS is meant as a character-focused story, not a plot-focused one. In a plot-focused story, the storyline is the focus and the characters are just the people we're following through it. In a character-focused story, the character development is the focus and the plot is just a means to facilitate that development. Most stories do both, depending on what chapter/epsiode/whatever it is, but almost all of them will have some bias. For instance, LOTR is plot-focused, OOTS is character-focused.

[TheNecrocomicon]

For the record, for those putting words in my mouth, I don't think the current book is a diversion or sidetrack of any kind. Maybe I've had my doubts, but given enough time to contemplate between new strips, things seem pretty apparent. It is very necessary, both on a plotline level and a character level, for the Order to be dealing with Lurkon before they move on to contend for the final Gate (whatever twists and turns that ends up entailing).

But having witnessed the dog-piling that awaits anyone who does believe that the current book, or the last book, etc. are supposedly unnecessary distractions, I just find it highly ironic that the world being under imminent threat of destruction is called an absolutely critical plotline in one breath, while the reasons for that imminent threat of destruction coming to a head in the first place are "a sidetrack in the main plot" in the next.

Since there is a lot of character focus in OotS, we should be understanding what makes these characters tick, even the divine ones (no matter how negatively they're generally portrayed). I get that probably not a lot of time should be paid to Thrym's reasons and motivations, but they're one part of how Hel even got so close to destroying and ruling the world in the first place. If the characters want to prevent that from happening again, they need to understand how and why Hel got so much pull with her fellow deities and demideities -- unless it really just boils down to "we feel oppressed and want to lash out for more power, because greed".

[ti'esar]

Thrym's barely a character, though. Hel's a character, and her high priest Greg certainly is, but Thrym had all of one line. The only reason to pay any more attention to him than any other random god voting to destroy the world (or against it for that matter) is the more cryptic nature of that line and maybe how long this giant fight has gone on - and even there it's possible that the major plot point here is actually Andi's mutiny and the frost giants could have functionally been just any random encounter that was dire enough to set her off.

[Kish]

for those putting words in my mouth

Ah, irony.

If the characters want to prevent that from happening again

I doubt very much that the Order or the story will ever treat "there are evil gods who scheme and conspire together to increase their power at everyone else's expense" as an Issue that the Order is supposed to correct except in the traditional "thwart this particular scheme that we're involved in" way for adventurers. Nor that the exploitable rules of the Godsmoot will merit any more direct attention from the Order than they already have (nor would such attention take the form of examining Thrym's inner motivations if they did).

[Jasdoif]

Thrym's barely a character, though.

Calling a Thrym a character at all is pretty generous at this point, really; Thrym's a setting detail that happens to have the superficial appearance of being a character. Thus far, a proxy representing Thrym has voted in the Godsmoot, and a gathering of frost giants have been declared as following the commands of Thrym; both of which could have been just as easily accomplished if "Thrym" was the personification of an inflexible philosophy rather than being an interactive person, much less a plot-influential character.

And in regards to the present conflict, the frost giants are following orders and the only one we know who could have a chance to convince any of them why it was Thrym's will (or why it wasn't)...appears too dead to take advantage of any opportunity to do so; the fighting is pretty much self-sustaining as far as the frost giants are concerned. Thrym could certainly become a character, but this isn't a particularly conducive situation for it.

[Psyren]

He's either allied with Hel, or his own goal is close enough to Hel's (i.e. requires destroying and remaking the world more in evil's favor) that it makes little difference in practice. Either way, no reason to dwell on it, we know what we need to know.

What I will point out though is that Hel's plan, if successful, would make her "Queen of the Northern Pantheon," usurping Odin. As with most corrupt politicians, she wouldn't be above doing favors for any toadies that helped her get there, particularly if said favors don't impact her in any way. So if for example Thrym was promised that he'd get to yoink Hoder's portfolio of Winter and ascend to the ranks of being a major deity, that would be plenty of reason to throw his lot in with hers. And if he then used that power to blanket half the continent in endless winter, Hel wouldn't care because such a hellscape wouldn't really bother undead.

Pure speculation on my part, but you can probably see potential reasons for a lesser deity to side with her.

[adamzeira]

I read it as "various gods have a variety of reasons". "I don't want to disclose it" is for variety

[Mad Humanist]

I read it as "various gods have a variety of reasons". "I don't want to disclose it" is for variety

This is what I assumed at the beginning but the longer this battle goes on and the longer their characters are built up the more I wonder if it is a build-up to a reveal.

[TheNecrocomicon]

This is what I assumed at the beginning but the longer this battle goes on and the longer their characters are built up the more I wonder if it is a build-up to a reveal.

It doesn't seem to me that the battle is all for a build-up to some reveal of dubious importance.

On the other hand, this certainly is achieving the dual purposes of being a big badass battle scene and introducing yet more obstacles for the protagonists to overcome (because why would things get any better for them until the very end, right?).

[Rogar Demonblud]

You forgot the other purpose: XP!

[TheNecrocomicon]

You forgot the other purpose: XP!

(insert levelling-up DING! here)

[Grey Watcher]

Am I the only one that just read Thrym's lack-of-explanation as a bit of characterization? Specifically that Thrym likes to keep his proverbial cards close to his chest in general?

Heck, my headcanon is that his reason is the same as Surtur's, but he doesn't want to admit that and look stupid for just repeating what someone else said.

(Plus, I'm guessing if any mortal were privy to Thrym's rationale, he's stuck in a cathedral on top of a mountain.)

[Mad Humanist]

Am I the only one that just read Thrym's lack-of-explanation as a bit of characterization? Specifically that Thrym likes to keep his proverbial cards close to his chest in general?

I always thought that was a possibility, but it seemed a lot less true than for other characterisations. I see it as the first hint of plot thread and this battle as the second.