My thoughts on Skyrim's factions

[NecroDancer]

I'm chugging along through Skyrim special edition and I love it! However I wanted to make a thread to ramble about the factions I've discovered.

I''m level 33 but I've only explored like 50-70 percent of Skyrim (I haven't even found all the holds).

There will be spoilers!

So far I've avoided the war and only really interacted with the dawn-gaurd and the thieves guild. Here are my thoughts on the various factions of Skyrim.

The Empire: seems to treat Skyrim as a colony and acts as a protectorate. However the empire seems to be under thalmor control. General Tulius seems to be interested in stopping the rebellion with as little chaos and bloodshed as possible but total disregard for Skyrim's traditions.

The stormcloaks: the majority of the people just want religious freedom and feel like they are under the control of the thalmor via the empire (not entirely untrue). However when I met Ulfic and his commanders I found myself hating them. Ulfric seems to be an extremist willing to do anything to equal rights for the nords only. Also the phrase "true sons and daughters of Skyrim" makes my skin crawl.

The thieves guild: they seem to be focused on gaining back their old power. Although they are obviously a major part of a very corrupt system they don't seem to be obviously evil (more affably evil).

The assassins guild: they have sent an assassin after me 4 times, the assassins burned. Not a very effective guild and they seem kinda cultish once I learned about the black sacrament ritual.

The Dawn-Guard: this group seems to be the most badass (explosive crossbows and armored trolls!). They are also the only group to actually try to stop the vampires that attack towns every Thursday. Fort Dawguard looks amazing and the members are cool (although I'm 99% sure Isran is going to die on his "last vampire hunt before retirement").

Clan Volkihar: at least they aren't twilight vampires.

My current lore related goal is too find out more about the thalmor and their relationship with the empire.

[Asmotherion]

I've played through Skyrim over 12 times, trying to explore every angle of it... I somehow always fail to join the Stormclocks, as I really WANT to kill Ulfrick every single time.


Basically, in real world analogies the empire is the US, wile the Stormclocks are Nazis. Ulfrick is exactly like Hitler: A nationalist, radical racist who discriminates and promotes discrimination towards everyone who is not his race.

I won't argue that the Empire does make some mistakes, but the Stormclocks are far worse. The Empire merelly wants to make a treaty to protect it's people, wile the Stormclocks are just fanatical racists. If it really was the empire's choice to ban Talos Worship, it would have been more understandable, but they had no choice. They agreed to a treety that will end a war, wile Ulfrick just self-rightiusly murdered his king for his own benefits. He is a madman and a criminal, and must be stoped.

[Phobia]

The Thalmar are the Nazis, I mean look at their outfits even..

[Rynjin]

Yeah, the Stormcloaks are your bog standard xenophobic dictator sorts, but they have a little wiggle room in their ideology.

The Thalmor are obsessed with racial purity, persecute people for their beliefs (to the point of wrangling them up and torturing them), and ambiguously want to unravel all of existence...because.

[Asmotherion]

The Thalmar are the Nazis, I mean look at their outfits even..

True, but one evil does not justify an other. Ulfrick is just trying to become High King of Skyrim and found an excuse to get followers. The empire on the other hand is just trying to prevent the Thalmor from finding an excuse to invade again, and do much more damage than before. Nobody likes the Thalmor really XD

-In the College of Winterhold, everyone suspecter Ancano from day one, and nobody (except from an other high elf) really likes him.

-Dark Elves do not assosiate themselves with the Thalmor, and I doubt they share it's "We are the best of the best, even other elves pale in comparison" politics.

-The Empire was at war with the Thalmor right before the events of Skyrim. They lost this war, and signed a treaty to make sure no more inocents will be lost against the Thalmor. Imagin what would happen to the Empire, was the Thalmor to conquer it. The tready apparently was the only solution, as they lacked the ability to win in an oppen war.

-Stormcloacks are not really that much different than the Thalmor. One believes the High Elves are the arian race, wile the other that nords are. Both believe that, because of their supposed supremancy, they have every right to treat those not of their race as garbage. Just see how Dark Elves get treated in Windhelm, bullied for their skin colour. Both want to force their traditions and beliefs to everyone else, with no reguard or respect. Just hear the average Stormcloack Soldier speak: "if you know any true sons and daughters of skyrim... blah blah blah". It's self righteus garbage just like their Thalmor equivalents being all buthurt that a human would be considered a god or about all the Aedra and Daidra debate of "Aedra are OUR ancestors, as elves, not yours, humans". Frankly, it's all a joke gone too far. It reminds me of Crussaders and Jihadists. And, the way I see it, if you can't respect other people's religion, racial culture or preferances, all you deserve is a FusRoDah to the face. :P

[5jco]

I found the Thalmor to pretty much be unambiguously evil. Which is weird, because both the Empire and the Stormcloaks seem to have his blue/orange/shades of grey morality going. The Blades / Greybeards don't have a clear "good/evil" to them either, and even the Assassin's Guild is sorta played sympathetically.

[Phobia]

Even the DRAGONS are more morally ambiguous than the Thalmar! XD

I feel like playing a Stormcloak Nord is the hmm how do I say this... what it wants you to do, you know what I mean? That seems like the true hero path, it takes place in Skyrim, uses Nord lore. I mean the Empire is crumbling, it's weak, it can't protect against the Thalmar, and stopping worship of Talos while messed up for all the usual reasons is also literally destroying the world. The Stormcloaks, while racist, still aren't anywhere near as bad as the Thalmar tho.

But I still wound up with my "former Thalmar" High Elf Imperial Mage and my unaffiliated Khajit Rogue as my two highest level characters in all my games.

[NecroDancer]

I think it could have been cool to be able to side with the dragons.

I want to see a game where you play as "the human-born" in a society of dragons (Bethesda take notes!).

[Asmotherion]

I think it could have been cool to be able to side with the dragons.

I want to see a game where you play as "the human-born" in a society of dragons (Bethesda take notes!).

So, basically the power to not breath fire every time you're having a verbal debate with someone? O_O

[ArlEammon]

I've played through Skyrim over 12 times, trying to explore every angle of it... I somehow always fail to join the Stormclocks, as I really WANT to kill Ulfrick every single time.


Basically, in real world analogies the empire is the US, wile the Stormclocks are Nazis. Ulfrick is exactly like Hitler: A nationalist, radical racist who discriminates and promotes discrimination towards everyone who is not his race.

I won't argue that the Empire does make some mistakes, but the Stormclocks are far worse. The Empire merelly wants to make a treaty to protect it's people, wile the Stormclocks are just fanatical racists. If it really was the empire's choice to ban Talos Worship, it would have been more understandable, but they had no choice. They agreed to a treety that will end a war, wile Ulfrick just self-rightiusly murdered his king for his own benefits. He is a madman and a criminal, and must be stoped.

Ulfric isn't that evil, he's just an opportunist racist with ancient morals and ethics. He's evil, but not quite to the same tune as any 20th century real world figures I can think of at the moment. In terms of real world atrocities he's more like the French Revolution, rather than the Gulags.

[Xihirli]

I found the Thalmor to pretty much be unambiguously evil.

I thought it made a little sense that they want to eradicate Talos worship. Tiber Septim led a genocide against the Altmer so thorough that probably every one of the Thalmor had an aunt or uncle killed in the war.
Like if Aztecs' population rebounded, and they discovered that Hernan Cortes was being worshipped as a deity. They would certainly protest, and their lifespans aren't long enough that there's a chance they actually KNEW the people that were slaughtered.

[ArlEammon]

I thought it made a little sense that they want to eradicate Talos worship. Tiber Septim led a genocide against the Altmer so thorough that probably every one of the Thalmor had an aunt or uncle killed in the war.
Like if Aztecs' population rebounded, and they discovered that Hernan Cortes was being worshipped as a deity. They would certainly protest, and their lifespans aren't long enough that there's a chance they actually KNEW the people that were slaughtered.

The problem is that the Thalmor are uh. . . like that guy from Dragon Age, Zathrian, who cursed entire families of people for eternity to live as werewolves, not just ugly wolf men, but to be in perpetual pain and itching for every waking moment of their existence. It's not their enemy's babies or grand babies fault that their great grandads killed the Thalmor uncles and aunts.

[Rynjin]

So, basically the power to not breath fire every time you're having a verbal debate with someone? O_O

For some reason this made me think of a video.

"How's it feeel [Humanborn]? To be a...bitch."

[NecroDancer]

So, basically the power to not breath fire every time you're having a verbal debate with someone? O_O

Elder Scrolls: Filibuster

[BlacKnight]

Basically, in real world analogies the empire is the US, wile the Stormclocks are Nazis. Ulfrick is exactly like Hitler: A nationalist, radical racist who discriminates and promotes discrimination towards everyone who is not his race.

I won't argue that the Empire does make some mistakes, but the Stormclocks are far worse. The Empire merelly wants to make a treaty to protect it's people, wile the Stormclocks are just fanatical racists. If it really was the empire's choice to ban Talos Worship, it would have been more understandable, but they had no choice. They agreed to a treety that will end a war, wile Ulfrick just self-rightiusly murdered his king for his own benefits. He is a madman and a criminal, and must be stoped.

Do you have proofs of these evil acts of the Stormcloaks ? (not Stormcloks. These are clocks https://www.google.com/search?q=cloc...w=1366&bih=638 )
No, you don't have. This story is just a proof of how lies and disinformation can spread trough the Internet. Someone says that the Stormcloaks are nazi, so everyone repeat it without fact checking.
But the truth is that in "nazi" capital Windhelm there are Altmer that owns shops without SA squads breaking everything every week.
Dunmer live in the poor district because they are refugees (yeah, apparently "nazi" Skyrim allows foreign refugees to live in their capital) not because there are ghettos.

Ulfric can be a bad person, but the Empire is the one that allows the Thalmor to act like the Gestapo. But yeah, the Stormcloaks are the bad guys because someone doesn't like their motto and can't distinguish between patriotism and racism.

[DiscipleofBob]

I could never finish Skyrim. Mostly because to do so required you to pick sides in the civil war, both of which just plain suck. The Stormcloaks are xenophobic purists, the Empire is under the Thalmor's thumb and banned an entire religion because it offends the Thalmor.

Every time I play I usually do just enough of the Warrior Guild before I have to decide if I want to actually become a werewolf or not, then the Thieves Guild and maybe the Mage college at Winterhold.

[ArlEammon]

Do you have proofs of these evil acts of the Stormcloaks ? (not Stormcloks. These are clocks https://www.google.com/search?q=cloc...w=1366&bih=638 )
No, you don't have. This story is just a proof of how lies and disinformation can spread trough the Internet. Someone says that the Stormcloaks are nazi, so everyone repeat it without fact checking.
But the truth is that in "nazi" capital Windhelm there are Altmer that owns shops without SA squads breaking everything every week.
Dunmer live in the poor district because they are refugees (yeah, apparently "nazi" Skyrim allows foreign refugees to live in their capital) not because there are ghettos.

Ulfric can be a bad person, but the Empire is the one that allows the Thalmor to act like the Gestapo. But yeah, the Stormcloaks are the bad guys because someone doesn't like their motto and can't distinguish between patriotism and racism.

To be fair, there's a difference between murdering, genocidal racists and the downtown bigots who discriminate based on race, and want segregation. Yes, the Stormcloaks are racist, but they don't have death camps.

[Yora]

I could never finish Skyrim. Mostly because to do so required you to pick sides in the civil war, both of which just plain suck. The Stormcloaks are xenophobic purists, the Empire is under the Thalmor's thumb and banned an entire religion because it offends the Thalmor.

That's the nice thing about the first Witcher game. You have two sides that are both sympathetic but obviously see no way to not wipe each other out. And you do have the choice to not take a side and not participate in one evil to prevent another evil. In the second game you have to chose a temporary partner from one of the two sides but you don't assist them in their war against each other.
It's a theme that runs through the whole series and goes back to one of the first stories, which frankly I don't expect to see in mainstream American works. Ambiguity, self-doubt, and accepting helplessness aren't part of the dramatic reportoir. You need to pick an enemy and destroy them without hesitation.

[Xihirli]

The problem is that the Thalmor are uh. . . like that guy from Dragon Age, Zathrian, who cursed entire families of people for eternity to live as werewolves, not just ugly wolf men, but to be in perpetual pain and itching for every waking moment of their existence. It's not their enemy's babies or grand babies fault that their great grandads killed the Thalmor uncles and aunts.

I'm not arguing that the Thalmor are correct by any means, only that I understand where they are coming from. I also wasn't offering a reason for their racial supremacy doctrine, only for their hatred of Talos worship. Talos was the guy who genocided them, so they don't want a religion built around him.

[Rynjin]

I'm not arguing that the Thalmor are correct by any means, only that I understand where they are coming from. I also wasn't offering a reason for their racial supremacy doctrine, only for their hatred of Talos worship. Talos was the guy who genocided them, so they don't want a religion built around him.

I think you're confusing Talos/Ysmir with Ysgramor, or Alessia (who killed the Ayleid slavemasters that dominated Cyrodiil, who the Thalmor are descended from).

Ysgramor drove the elves out of Skyrim after the Snow Elves slaughtered an entire city (leaving him and his sons the only survivors).

Talos/Ysmir/Tiber Septim was the first emperor of Tamiriel, and ascended to godhood after his death. The Thalmor consider this blasphemy because he was a filthy human that now shares space with the other Eight Divines (who, by their belief, are all elves, or the ancestors of them). More to the point, their goal was less to stamp out an alternate religion they find distasteful because of their racism (though that's the cherry on top), they did it precisely because they knew it would splinter the Empire, at the very least sending Skyrim into chaos (which it did) and had the maybe unexpected side effect of removing Hammerfell from the Empire as well, leaving the Empire without EITHER of its primary sources of its most skilled combatants.

[BlacKnight]

To be fair, there's a difference between murdering, genocidal racists and the downtown bigots who discriminate based on race, and want segregation. Yes, the Stormcloaks are racist, but they don't have death camps.

What evidence do you have that the Stormcloaks are racist ?
They discriminate based on race ? When ? Where ? How ?
They want segregation ? When ? Where ? How ? No, the Dunmer in Windhelm aren't forced to live in the Gray Quarter.

Sure, you can find some Nords that are racist. The same way you can find bad people in any other race. But the Stormcloaks as organization aren't racist and don't have any racist policy.

[Rynjin]

What evidence do you have that the Stormcloaks are racist ?
They discriminate based on race ? When ? Where ? How ?
They want segregation ? When ? Where ? How ? No, the Dunmer in Windhelm aren't forced to live in the Gray Quarter.

Yes, they are. Certainly they theoretically could leave if they wanted...the same way black people could technically move into traditionally white neighborhoods directly after the Civil Rights Act.

Just because it isn't illegal doesn't mean they're allowed, if you catch my drift.

Sure, you can find some Nords that are racist. The same way you can find bad people in any other race. But the Stormcloaks as organization aren't racist and don't have any racist policy.

Here's a conversation between the leader of the Stormcloaks and his second in command.

Ulfric: "Is there any news from High Rock?"
Galmar: "Not a peep. Those prissy Bretons can't be made to lift a finger to help their neighbors."
Ulfric: "I suppose we shouldn't be surprised. They've never had many problems with the Empire."
Galmar: "Those milk drinkers? Might as well be elves. Think they're better than us."
Ulfric: "Regardless. It appears Skyrim must stand alone. Again."

Some more from Ulfric:

Jorleif: "Sir, there continues to be unrest in the Gray Quarter."
Ulfric: "Blasted dark elves. I don't suppose you could tell them that I presently have larger concerns? Such as all of Skyrim?"
Jorleif: "They don't seem to be very sympathetic to our cause, sir."
Ulfric: "Let me know if you hear anything more substantial?"
Jorleif: "Of course, my lord."

Ulfric: "What's the current spirit among the dark elves?"
Captain Lonely-Gale: "As restless as ever, sir, but I don't see them taking any kind of incendiary action. Not soon, anyway."
Ulfric: "Well that much is good. Let's finish this first war before starting the next one, eh?"
Captain Lonely-Gale: "Um... yes, of course, sir."
Ulfric: "Carry on, Lonely-Gale. And loosen yourself a bit."

Note the bit about how he (jokingly or not) suggests a war against the Dunmer is coming next.

[ArlEammon]

What evidence do you have that the Stormcloaks are racist ?
They discriminate based on race ? When ? Where ? How ?
They want segregation ? When ? Where ? How ? No, the Dunmer in Windhelm aren't forced to live in the Gray Quarter.

Sure, you can find some Nords that are racist. The same way you can find bad people in any other race. But the Stormcloaks as organization aren't racist and don't have any racist policy.

Nearly the entirety of Skyrim is racist. Not murder happy or violent against other races, but it's a culture of ultra traditionalists and super clingy xenophobes. Golldir, the shop keepers in Falkreath, Morthal, though not necessarily, "racist" definitely have the cultural bigotry against mages, they won't let the Khajits or Argonians in the f8888ng cities at ALL, they nearly eradicated all the Forsworn, which is partly why that entire culture is serial killer in nature, etcetera.

The average Skyrim person is racist in the sense that they think that people of other races are inferior in some way, but they aren't evil.

[Phobia]

You could say the Stormcloaks aren't bad guys, you can even make a case that they are the lesser of two evils, but you can't say they aren't racists.

[BlacKnight]

Yes, they are. Certainly they theoretically could leave if they wanted...the same way black people could technically move into traditionally white neighborhoods directly after the Civil Rights Act.

Just because it isn't illegal doesn't mean they're allowed, if you catch my drift.

There are Altmer that owns shops and stables in Windhelm. Yeah, the same race of the ones that forbid to worship Talos and kindnap and torture his believers. There's a Dunmer merchant, Aval Atheron, that works in the marketplace with the other merchants. So again, where are the signs of this discrimination ? There are Altmer or Dunmer that were forced to flee from the Nord neighborhood ? No, there aren't. Thus we have to conclude that Dunmer could live there, if they could afford it. Altmer already do it.

Ulfric: "Is there any news from High Rock?"
Galmar: "Not a peep. Those prissy Bretons can't be made to lift a finger to help their neighbors."
Ulfric: "I suppose we shouldn't be surprised. They've never had many problems with the Empire."
Galmar: "Those milk drinkers? Might as well be elves. Think they're better than us."
Ulfric: "Regardless. It appears Skyrim must stand alone. Again."

So now calling someone pissy Bretons or milk drinkers means that one is racist and xenophobic. Dear God, the politically correct idiocy strikes again.

Some more from Ulfric:
Ulfric: "What's the current spirit among the dark elves?"
Captain Lonely-Gale: "As restless as ever, sir, but I don't see them taking any kind of incendiary action. Not soon, anyway."
Ulfric: "Well that much is good. Let's finish this first war before starting the next one, eh?"
Captain Lonely-Gale: "Um... yes, of course, sir."
Ulfric: "Carry on, Lonely-Gale. And loosen yourself a bit."

It seems pretty obvious that Ulfric is joking. He also said to the Captain to relax.
If people were serious anytime they said they wanted to kill someone we would be extinct by now.

Nearly the entirety of Skyrim is racist. Not murder happy or violent against other races, but it's a culture of ultra traditionalists and super clingy xenophobes. Golldir, the shop keepers in Falkreath, Morthal, though not necessarily, "racist" definitely have the cultural bigotry against mages, they won't let the Khajits or Argonians in the f8888ng cities at ALL, they nearly eradicated all the Forsworn, which is partly why that entire culture is serial killer in nature, etcetera.

The average Skyrim person is racist in the sense that they think that people of other races are inferior in some way, but they aren't evil.

Sure, but that is not a specific thing of the Stormcloaks. When I said they aren't racist I meant in relation to the setting. They could be racist by modern standards, but from the POV of a man of Tamriel they are normal. They sure aren't a xenophobic force that want to make the live of all non Nord races worse. The Empire isn't a liberal force that treat all races equally. They are really similar in this regard and they both adhere to the common culture of Skyrim.

[ArlEammon]

There are Altmer that owns shops and stables in Windhelm. Yeah, the same race of the ones that forbid to worship Talos and kindnap and torture his believers. There's a Dunmer merchant, Aval Atheron, that works in the marketplace with the other merchants. So again, where are the signs of this discrimination ? There are Altmer or Dunmer that were forced to flee from the Nord neighborhood ? No, there aren't. Thus we have to conclude that Dunmer could live there, if they could afford it. Altmer already do it.



So now calling someone pissy Bretons or milk drinkers means that one is racist and xenophobic. Dear God, the politically correct idiocy strikes again.



It seems pretty obvious that Ulfric is joking. He also said to the Captain to relax.
If people were serious anytime they said they wanted to kill someone we would be extinct by now.





Sure, but that is not a specific thing of the Stormcloaks. When I said they aren't racist I meant in relation to the setting. They could be racist by modern standards, but from the POV of a man of Tamriel they are normal. They sure aren't a xenophobic force that want to make the live of all non Nord races worse. The Empire isn't a liberal force that treat all races equally. They are really similar in this regard and they both adhere to the common culture of Skyrim.

We aren't saying, for example, that the Stormcloaks are hideous death camp running monsters, like some comparing them to Nazis, we're just saying that by real life standards, they're racist.

[Xihirli]

I think you're confusing Talos/Ysmir with Ysgramor, or Alessia (who killed the Ayleid slavemasters that dominated Cyrodiil, who the Thalmor are descended from).

I thought he conquered the Summerset Isles by unleashing the killing machines of the Dwemer onto the shores.
I know he conquered them, it's on the Elder Scrolls Wiki, but I don't know for sure that the Dwemer thing happened.

[Rynjin]

So now calling someone pissy Bretons or milk drinkers means that one is racist and xenophobic. Dear God, the politically correct idiocy strikes again.

It's not political correctness, painting an entire race as effeminate (prissy, milk drinker) and stuck up because they won't help them with a war they have no horse in is racist and self-centered.

It's very understandable and common IRL xenophobia (see: attitudes toward the French) but you can't say it's not.

It seems pretty obvious that Ulfric is joking. He also said to the Captain to relax.
If people were serious anytime they said they wanted to kill someone we would be extinct by now.

Just because when your racist old uncle says we should come back around and finish the job Hitler left unfinished he laughs about it doesn't mean it's not racist.

When your racist old uncle is a KING, it's a bigger problem.

Sure, but that is not a specific thing of the Stormcloaks. When I said they aren't racist I meant in relation to the setting. They could be racist by modern standards, but from the POV of a man of Tamriel they are normal. They sure aren't a xenophobic force that want to make the live of all non Nord races worse. The Empire isn't a liberal force that treat all races equally. They are really similar in this regard and they both adhere to the common culture of Skyrim.

It's actually pretty evident that Skyrim is much less tolerant than Cyrodiil, at the least. Inhabitants of Cyrodiil do discriminate against Khajiit and Argonians, but not to the same extent. Likewise there isn't the same kind of casual dislike of all elves in Cyrodiil either.

Skyrim is very xenophobic...probably because it's so homogenous, combined with its past horrific experiences with elves (the justification for their treatment of Khajiit and Argonians is less clear). Again, just because racism is understandable and follows from past atrocities...doesn't mean it isn't racism.

There are Altmer that owns shops and stables in Windhelm. Yeah, the same race of the ones that forbid to worship Talos and kindnap and torture his believers.

...Exactly. The same race as the people that whipped the empire's ass in the last war and have roving bands of inquisitors and soldiers all across Skyrim enforcing their will and the treaty.

Openly discriminating against them would be a bad idea.

There's a Dunmer merchant, Aval Atheron, that works in the marketplace with the other merchants.

So? They're allowed to leave the area. I'm not sure what your point is here. You note that he doesn't own an actual SHOP there, however.

So again, where are the signs of this discrimination ? There are Altmer or Dunmer that were forced to flee from the Nord neighborhood ? No, there aren't. Thus we have to conclude that Dunmer could live there, if they could afford it. Altmer already do it.

First, this assumption works only if you assume the Dunmer AREN'T barred from buying property in other parts of the city...which, at the least, Aval Atheron claims they are.

Two, keeping people too poor to buy property in better parts of town is a pretty classic move. You keep them down so they can't move out of the squalor. Make them hard to employ by discriminating against hiring them or owning their own businesses in certain areas. Then you teach people to hate them for being poor. They're poor because they're lazy, look at all the unemployed ones just lounging around. And they're lazy because...well, that's just how Dark Elves are, right?

Sound familiar?

[Blackhawk748]

The Stormcloaks are racists, but not even in the same league as the Thalmor. I mean, Ulfric isn't as bad as his followers (Which still isn't great, but whatever), but he will accept non-Nords onto his side. Basically he cares more about you respecting (and hopefully adopting) his traditions than what race you are, as the conversation about the Bretons would indicate. The Thalmor however, treat everyone as little more than disposable nothings, with other Elves just being slightly better than non-elves. See how they treat the Wood Elves as an example.

Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are just jerks with over-inflated egos. The Thalmor want racial extermination.

[veti]

I would strenuously argue that the Stormcloaks are, at the very least, no worse than the Imperials.

The Stormcloaks don't value racial equality, that's true. They don't actively persecute anyone (evidence: if you turn up to join Ulfric's army, your treatment is exactly the same, regardless of whether you're playing a Nord, Altmer or Dunmer). But they don't exactly go out of their way to prevent it, there are horrible racists among them and they don't try to correct them.

The Imperials don't value religious freedom - again, they don't persecute it themselves, but they wilfully allow the Thalmor to do so. And lest you should reason that racial persecution is inherently worse than religious persecution, note the magnitude of the persecution. Dunmer and Argonians in Windhelm are ghettoised, harrassed and widely despised; but Talos worshippers in Imperial cities are subject to kidnapping, torture and murder. Sorry, but that is worse.

When you first enter Windhelm, two Nords are verbally harrassing a Dunmer (who appears to be innocent of anything). But when you first enter Solitude, there's a guy getting his head cut off for the crime of opening the city gate - note, this is the same gate that's open 24/7 to you, even when you're at the head of a Stormcloak army.

The Imperials have torture chambers. The Stormcloaks don't.

Right at the beginning of the game, the Imperials tried to cut my head off for the crime of - being on the same cart as Ulfric.

Yeah, the more I think of it, the less I can sympathise with the Empire.