[EMPIRE] The Slavian Summit

[Aedilred]

Nikolay smiled slightly, though his expression soon turned hard. "Of course, the Despoiler... You are in for a difficult battle, not one I would wish upon anyone. You must turn to the defence of your people before all else. Hopefully this will be her last campaign and to that end I will dispatch a contingent of knights to assist your forces if you will accept the aid.
"As for Alexander, you must understand why I cannot permit him to remain in his position. But rest assured, I will not persecute any who have converted to the Sun Cult who live within Shishiyan lands."

Gaurang turned slowly to look at the Archpatriarch as he spoke.

"This I do not understand," he said, in his deliberate, low voice. "The Sun Cult has driven a Shishiyan kingdom to apostasy. It seeks to restore the Lunari, a faction the Church considers analogous to the Enemy. It has sponsored aggressive conversions of the faithful within the holy land of Shamaran. Armies flying Sun Cult banners have invaded Selorian land and attempted to abduct the Grand Mahangar. These are not matters that can be put to one side with the scapegoating of one man, no matter how much that man deserves punishment. Given that you yourself declared a crusade on this very subject not five years past, I am frankly astonished to hear you talk of making common cause with the very people you had only recently condemned, let alone to hear you say that the apostates in Shamaran will suffer no repercussions. These promises in themselves would be outrageous, but that you have offered them without demanding any undertakings or concessions from an organisation that has fomented chaos and proven itself inimical to the goals of our Church is little short of madness.

"I am prepared to acknowledge diplomatic convention and sit at a table with the representatives of this heathen cult, and the apostate Alexander, if it is necessary for future peace in Slavia. But I shall not let that blind me to the realities of what we are dealing with. If I did not know better, to listen to you speak just now I would think that the Celestial conversions in Shamaran had reached the very apex of power."

"Thank you Patriarch. Honored guests, each of you has come to this land for a reason. Whether an obligation felt to see things through or a desire to play a part in molding Slavia's future. It bring happiness to see so many now concerned with the fate of Slavia."

"However, many of you come to support the crowning of Ulric Goth, a child of common Slavian blood, as Duke of Slavia, the position once held by Vladimir Von Orlok for over two generations. You who have not lived in this land would see this as a simple solution but I assure you it is not. Was it not the King of Shamaran who crowned the common-born executioner Baylor Blackwoods as a knight of Shamaran? Was it not the naming of this line as Dukes of Slavia that led to our people's most horrendous oppression? I do not accuse the young Ulric of being cruel or despotic but it is in the nature of the ducal system so established by ancient Shamaran to encourage the oppression of the people and suppression of dissent. The people given no recourse, no agency with which to express themselves may for a time grow complacent but eventually they will rise up as my revolutionary brothers and sisters have now."

"The People's Front will support Ulric as titular Duke but we will only do so knowing that he will not be conferred the full authority of this region's governance. We wish to propose a Slavian National Assembly, a republican institution intended to act as the primary mechanism for governing the whole of the Slavian territory. Already teachers spread enlightenment and agency to the Slavian people inside former Orlokgrad. We will not accept total restoration of the monarchy, no matter who that monarch may be. On this the Front stands firm and we must know, will any here oppose this?"

"Yes," Gaurang said. "At least in the terms you suggest. A representative body to advise the Duke and place some constraints on his governance, in order that the dangers of outright tyranny can be avoided, might be acceptable, especially in the light of the excesses and cruelties of the late von Orlok dukes. However, to pass over legislative rule to a supposedly popular body, in a land where the overwhelming majority of the population have no education or understanding of government, nor ever will, would result only in tyranny of a different kind, and worse, one without the singular will and direction of a ruling monarch, but riven by discontent and disagreement. It is a recipe for chaos, not to mention concerns over the competence and legitimacy of the People's Front, the extent to which such a body would be dominated by their own agents, and the undesirability of handing the reins of power to a self-proclaimed revolutionary body. Those issues alone would be enough to give me pause, for this recommendation looks to me like an attempt at a coup - to claim absolute power in Slavia for the People's Front, while offering a meaningless concession to the ducal faction which actually won the war.

"If nothing else, recent events in Ynys y Corsydd clearly demonstrates the inherent dangers of the form of government recommended by the People's Front. The government there has proven incapable of maintaining any degree of stability, whether in matters of politics or religion, and fell victim to foreign invasion without being able to offer any meaningful resistance. Slavia is emerging from one period of privation: I shall not sign off on condemning it to another."

[Minescratcher]

Martino leaned forward. "I will not oppose the Assembly in principle, but I must agree with the Bejan. There are numerous concerns, not least that the people have not had say in their government for generations. There are many unanswered questions as well. The Front has schools. Will they be used to teach governance? How will representatives be chosen? What restrictions and powers will be the Duke's, and what restrictions will be applied to the Assembly? Who will have the final say in matters of economy, military, religion?

I cannot agree to such a system without knowing its specifics. In principle it is sound. In practice it could be like a dike many feet high and thick, impenetrable and impossible for the water to overcome - or it could be like a piece of worm-eaten wood, riddled with holes, placed in a futile attempt to block the path of the ocean itself." He looked expectantly at the Front's representatives.

[BootStrapTommy]

Spoiler: Gaurang

Show

Gaurang turned slowly to look at the Archpatriarch as he spoke.

"This I do not understand," he said, in his deliberate, low voice. "The Sun Cult has driven a Shishiyan kingdom to apostasy. It seeks to restore the Lunari, a faction the Church considers analogous to the Enemy. It has sponsored aggressive conversions of the faithful within the holy land of Shamaran. Armies flying Sun Cult banners have invaded Selorian land and attempted to abduct the Grand Mahangar. These are not matters that can be put to one side with the scapegoating of one man, no matter how much that man deserves punishment. Given that you yourself declared a crusade on this very subject not five years past, I am frankly astonished to hear you talk of making common cause with the very people you had only recently condemned, let alone to hear you say that the apostates in Shamaran will suffer no repercussions. These promises in themselves would be outrageous, but that you have offered them without demanding any undertakings or concessions from an organisation that has fomented chaos and proven itself inimical to the goals of our Church is little short of madness.

"I am prepared to acknowledge diplomatic convention and sit at a table with the representatives of this heathen cult, and the apostate Alexander, if it is necessary for future peace in Slavia. But I shall not let that blind me to the realities of what we are dealing with. If I did not know better, to listen to you speak just now I would think that the Celestial conversions in Shamaran had reached the very apex of power."

Sir Lepída shot the Bejan a look at the holy man made his remarks, her vulpine ears pinning themselves back on his head as he glared.

"You are right, Bejan, such events are not so easily forgiven. But war is the ultimate Chaos, a fact any warrior can attest to.You have as much tact as a dying phœnīx in a Shanadeer slum. Hasty, ill thought words in moments of ignorance do as much to sow Chaos and serve the Enemy as any apostate or pagan can, especially when peace is on the line. You claim many things I do not believe the Archpatriarch said, based on assumptions perhaps you should not be making. You speak as if their conversation has reached its terminus, when as I observe it, it has only yet begun. Do not presume that a lack of persecution means a lack of repercussions."

All Gathered Dignitaries

Spoiler: Shanadeer

Show

"Yes," Gaurang said. "At least in the terms you suggest. A representative body to advise the Duke and place some constraints on his governance, in order that the dangers of outright tyranny can be avoided, might be acceptable, especially in the light of the excesses and cruelties of the late von Orlok dukes. However, to pass over legislative rule to a supposedly popular body, in a land where the overwhelming majority of the population have no education or understanding of government, nor ever will, would result only in tyranny of a different kind, and worse, one without the singular will and direction of a ruling monarch, but riven by discontent and disagreement. It is a recipe for chaos, not to mention concerns over the competence and legitimacy of the People's Front, the extent to which such a body would be dominated by their own agents, and the undesirability of handing the reins of power to a self-proclaimed revolutionary body. Those issues alone would be enough to give me pause, for this recommendation looks to me like an attempt at a coup - to claim absolute power in Slavia for the People's Front, while offering a meaningless concession to the ducal faction which actually won the war.

"If nothing else, recent events in Ynys y Corsydd clearly demonstrates the inherent dangers of the form of government recommended by the People's Front. The government there has proven incapable of maintaining any degree of stability, whether in matters of politics or religion, and fell victim to foreign invasion without being able to offer any meaningful resistance. Slavia is emerging from one period of privation: I shall not sign off on condemning it to another."

The Suzerain laughed audibly at Gaurung's statement, a invisible smile hidden under her mask.

"Strange sentiment, coming from a man who can but walk outside the walls of the city in which he lives and find one such govenrment, celebrating centuries of rule over a prosperous demesne. I certainly see the People's Front's concern. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. As much Chaos comes from a strong authority wielded poorly as can come from none at all. The von Orloks illustrated this fact well. Tyranny is no more a virtue than anarchy. When decisions are removed from the consequences, people suffer. There is little reason a compromise could not be reached. A republic does not mean Chaos, so long as it has leaders with vision. As for the ignorance of the Slavian people? That is nothing the efforts of the Church cannot fix."

[HalfTangible]

Gaurang turned slowly to look at the Archpatriarch as he spoke.

"This I do not understand," he said, in his deliberate, low voice. "The Sun Cult has driven a Shishiyan kingdom to apostasy. It seeks to restore the Lunari, a faction the Church considers analogous to the Enemy. It has sponsored aggressive conversions of the faithful within the holy land of Shamaran. Armies flying Sun Cult banners have invaded Selorian land and attempted to abduct the Grand Mahangar. These are not matters that can be put to one side with the scapegoating of one man, no matter how much that man deserves punishment. Given that you yourself declared a crusade on this very subject not five years past, I am frankly astonished to hear you talk of making common cause with the very people you had only recently condemned, let alone to hear you say that the apostates in Shamaran will suffer no repercussions. These promises in themselves would be outrageous, but that you have offered them without demanding any undertakings or concessions from an organisation that has fomented chaos and proven itself inimical to the goals of our Church is little short of madness.

"I am prepared to acknowledge diplomatic convention and sit at a table with the representatives of this heathen cult, and the apostate Alexander, if it is necessary for future peace in Slavia. But I shall not let that blind me to the realities of what we are dealing with. If I did not know better, to listen to you speak just now I would think that the Celestial conversions in Shamaran had reached the very apex of power."

"You believe he is corrupt for offering aid because you are incompetent." Alluil said bluntly.

Enazan opened his mouth before the Hand of Fate cut him off. "No. As the Hand of Fate, I have something to say to this man."

She moved closer to Gaurang and glared, the first bit of anger she had shown, though she did not draw her blade. "Your false righteousness ring hollow. Your Faith did not stop the Von Orloks from slaughtering their way across the continent, raping and pillaging whoever they pleased. Your Church did not turn Seloris into a respectable kingdom, that was on Vaerin and his son. Shamaran sent missionaries of their own, but they did not sway the Cult. Apianopolis turned of its own accord; there was no bewitchery despite your whining of 'heresy'."

"Shamaran offers us help because like it or not Hawa is a greater threat than us, which you should know already."

"If you are not capable of keeping your flock in line or turning these 'apostates' back to the Shishiyan faith in your holy lands, that is your fault and your problem. Not ours."

She moved back to the wall behind Enazan and leaned against it. "All I had to say."

Enazan looked like someone who had just watched a brand-new gift get set on fire moments before he could touch it. "... what just happened?"

One of the acolytes sniggered. "Your job got a lot harder."

"Yes," Gaurang said. "At least in the terms you suggest. A representative body to advise the Duke and place some constraints on his governance, in order that the dangers of outright tyranny can be avoided, might be acceptable, especially in the light of the excesses and cruelties of the late von Orlok dukes. However, to pass over legislative rule to a supposedly popular body, in a land where the overwhelming majority of the population have no education or understanding of government, nor ever will, would result only in tyranny of a different kind, and worse, one without the singular will and direction of a ruling monarch, but riven by discontent and disagreement. It is a recipe for chaos, not to mention concerns over the competence and legitimacy of the People's Front, the extent to which such a body would be dominated by their own agents, and the undesirability of handing the reins of power to a self-proclaimed revolutionary body. Those issues alone would be enough to give me pause, for this recommendation looks to me like an attempt at a coup - to claim absolute power in Slavia for the People's Front, while offering a meaningless concession to the ducal faction which actually won the war.

"If nothing else, recent events in Ynys y Corsydd clearly demonstrates the inherent dangers of the form of government recommended by the People's Front. The government there has proven incapable of maintaining any degree of stability, whether in matters of politics or religion, and fell victim to foreign invasion without being able to offer any meaningful resistance. Slavia is emerging from one period of privation: I shall not sign off on condemning it to another."

Enazan nodded. "While I do not disagree with the idea in principle, a representative government is too prone to infighting. The people do not need a voice right now, they need someone to lead them out of this crisis."

Martino leaned forward. "I will not oppose the Assembly in principle, but I must agree with the Bejan. There are numerous concerns, not least that the people have not had say in their government for generations. There are many unanswered questions as well. The Front has schools. Will they be used to teach governance? How will representatives be chosen? What restrictions and powers will be the Duke's, and what restrictions will be applied to the Assembly? Who will have the final say in matters of economy, military, religion?

I cannot agree to such a system without knowing its specifics. In principle it is sound. In practice it could be like a dike many feet high and thick, impenetrable and impossible for the water to overcome - or it could be like a piece of worm-eaten wood, riddled with holes, placed in a futile attempt to block the path of the ocean itself." He looked expectantly at the Front's representatives.

"I agree." Enazan turned to the People's representative. "What will this government's structure be?"

[Elemental]

Gaurang turned slowly to look at the Archpatriarch as he spoke.

"This I do not understand," he said, in his deliberate, low voice. "The Sun Cult has driven a Shishiyan kingdom to apostasy. It seeks to restore the Lunari, a faction the Church considers analogous to the Enemy. It has sponsored aggressive conversions of the faithful within the holy land of Shamaran. Armies flying Sun Cult banners have invaded Selorian land and attempted to abduct the Grand Mahangar. These are not matters that can be put to one side with the scapegoating of one man, no matter how much that man deserves punishment. Given that you yourself declared a crusade on this very subject not five years past, I am frankly astonished to hear you talk of making common cause with the very people you had only recently condemned, let alone to hear you say that the apostates in Shamaran will suffer no repercussions. These promises in themselves would be outrageous, but that you have offered them without demanding any undertakings or concessions from an organisation that has fomented chaos and proven itself inimical to the goals of our Church is little short of madness.

"I am prepared to acknowledge diplomatic convention and sit at a table with the representatives of this heathen cult, and the apostate Alexander, if it is necessary for future peace in Slavia. But I shall not let that blind me to the realities of what we are dealing with. If I did not know better, to listen to you speak just now I would think that the Celestial conversions in Shamaran had reached the very apex of power."

Nikolay scowled as Gaurang provided his unsolicited input. Nevertheless, his response was calm if tinged with irritation.
"I see that they teach eavesdropping in Shanadeer... Nevertheless, you have heard what I have said to Enazan and though I am not obliged to explain myself to one my junior both in age and rank it seems I am nevertheless obliged to do so. When I say I will not persecute the apostates within my land I mean I will not bring violence to bear against them or force them from their homes or families. Though my rank is primarily theocratic I am also a secular ruler and thus must consider the potential unrest that declaring open inquisition could result in.
"But, should the Grand Mahangar wish it I will put each and every one of them to the sword if they fail to renounce the Sun Cult. That is the punishment for apostasy is it not? I mean, I could use gentle persuasion rather than slaughtering thousands of my own subjects, but if it is the will of Our Most Holy Brother, the Grand Mahangar, then who am I to object?
"Of course, until I hear from him in regard to this I will continue with my initial plan which will be to extract from every citizen of Marandel and Arraham a confession of faith. Those who state their allegiance is to the Sun Cult will be fined and taxed with the money used to establish religious schools. Knights will be dispatched South to put down the Despoiler and bring Alexander to justice and I've no doubt that the Sun Cult will find themselves indebted to us for our assistance against the Skrilling threat."

Sir Lepída shot the Bejan a look at the holy man made his remarks, her vulpine ears pinning themselves back on his head as he glared.

"You are right, Bejan, such events are not so easily forgiven. But war is the ultimate Chaos, a fact any warrior can attest to.You have as much tact as a dying phœnīx in a Shanadeer slum. Hasty, ill thought words in moments of ignorance do as much to sow Chaos and serve the Enemy as any apostate or pagan can, especially when peace is on the line. You claim many things I do not believe the Archpatriarch said, based on assumptions perhaps you should not be making. You speak as if their conversation has reached its terminus, when as I observe it, it has only yet begun. Do not presume that a lack of persecution means a lack of repercussions."

"You believe he is corrupt for offering aid because you are incompetent." Alluil said bluntly.

Enazan opened his mouth before the Hand of Fate cut him off. "No. As the Hand of Fate, I have something to say to this man."

She moved closer to Gaurang and glared, the first bit of anger she had shown, though she did not draw her blade. "Your false righteousness ring hollow. Your Faith did not stop the Von Orloks from slaughtering their way across the continent, raping and pillaging whoever they pleased. Your Church did not turn Seloris into a respectable kingdom, that was on Vaerin and his son. Shamaran sent missionaries of their own, but they did not sway the Cult. Apianopolis turned of its own accord; there was no bewitchery despite your whining of 'heresy'."

"Shamaran offers us help because like it or not Hawa is a greater threat than us, which you should know already."

"If you are not capable of keeping your flock in line or turning these 'apostates' back to the Shishiyan faith in your holy lands, that is your fault and your problem. Not ours."

She moved back to the wall behind Enazan and leaned against it. "All I had to say."

Enazan looked like someone who had just watched a brand-new gift get set on fire moments before he could touch it. "... what just happened?"

One of the acolytes sniggered. "Your job got a lot harder."

Two more interruptions... This was Nikolay's only chance to meet with a representative of the Sun Cult on neutral ground... He raised his voice slightly and looked around.
"If there is anyone else who wishes to interject? No? Excellent.
"The Celestial Cult is our enemy in faith, a position I will always hold firm, but they need not be our enemies on the field of battle also. The service and sacrifice they have made in ensuring peace in Slavia alone is proof that when the time comes they will fight on the side of light against the darkness that so imperils us all. I for one have no wish to see their people, or any other people for that matter, taken into slavery by Hawa the Despoiler for if just one tenth of the rumours I have heard regarding her are accurate she is a true enemy of all that is good and righteous in this world.
"As such, I implore you all that even if you will not assist the Sunlanders in the coming battle that you will at the very least not take advantage of their situation. Once the storm has passed and Alexander has been taken to Shanadeer for trial we can reexamine matters. I for one am content to leave the Sunlands in peace."

"I agree." Enazan turned to the People's representative. "What will this government's structure be?"

Despite not being asked, the Archpatriarch nevertheless chose to interject.
"While I am not opposed to the concept of a parliament or assembly being formed in Slavia, and in fact I encourage it, I suggest we proceed carefully. Perhaps Patriarch Dimitri can call a council of learned and respected individuals from throughout Slavia to discuss the matter in depth?
"My normal process when it comes to matters of public policy on this scale is to consult the relevant records but alas, the most up to date documentation I have available for Slavia date to the reign of King Balendin. Did the Von Orloks keep accounts we can consult?"

[moossabi]

Through the conversation between Enazan and Nikolay, one of Archduke Alexander's guards stood stationed at one of the far recesses of the room. About at the time Gaurang entered, the guard left the room (I'm assuming this is all going on in a back room). After a minute or two, he returns with a crumpled piece of paper in his hand. Ignoring the ongoing condemnations of his Archduke, he approaches Aluil and holds out the paper in his hand. When she takes it, he leaves the room, his footsteps joined by two more sets once the door shuts behind him.

The Apian Queen feels that we are indebted to you for assisting us in the ousting of the Shishiyan hierarchy, so your defenders against the Despoiler shall be joined by six divisions of our own accompanied by my most trusted lieutenant. Hawa's atrocities shall not be repeated against your people.

~Alexander

[Zayuz]

((While there is much to be said on the topic of the new government, I wish to sleep at this time of the night. I'll follow up with my response soon enough!))

Catching up with cousin Sveta

"As do I; for I place my trust in both." Kalthor would reply with a satisfied tone. This would imply both the exalted and the ability of his wife to bear his children. "We've actually already had a daughter just two years past. Her name is Sharae, and I am fortunate to say that she is in good health."

Turning over the discussion to Karras, the young queen would raise an eyebrow at the mention of her beauty, allowing a smile to creep onto her face. "Your words do me a great kindness." She starts, a positive ring coming from her voice. Unlike Kalthor, she did not seem so phased by the power of those around her. It was impossible to ignore those cautious glances of his as he watched the others. Karras luckily had no such fears. "It is wonderful to meet you too; I would certainly have visited you earlier if only Vaerin had allowed our relationship to be more official than it was. Heh, never thought I'd see the day I had a proper Shishiyan wedding; much less one to the king of Seloris." The woman gave her husbands arm a small squeeze as she mentioned his title, prompting a poorly hidden smile from her partner.

Satyr discussion!

Kalthor couldn't help but snicker at such a philosophical notion being seriously set forwards. Despite his dismissal at the gesture, he seemed to feel that there were some valid points raised.. It was impossible to say if the Satyrs actually started the conflict - At this point it was just about who would win. "I find it hard to keep a straight face at the idea of the Satyrs - who are currently hostile towards Slavia and Seloris - being the pinnacle of the moral compass, it is true that I have not heard of any attempts to speak with them in my lifetime. They pose a great threat to a still chaotic and non-unified Slavia.. In which case this peaceful solution might just ease both the hearts of the peasants as well as the new ruler. It would work out in the long run to subjugate them anyways.. Perhaps in the interest of Slavia's well-being, one might volunteer to try and broker a deal with these Satyrs while whoever ends up with the ownership of the country manages their many other issues?" He smiled slightly at the end of his suggestion, satisfied by his pitch to the group. He was less confident than it seemed the others in the room were; perhaps a bit offput by the power that so many of the men and women held. This was not to say his voice shook with fear or he couldn't maintain eye contact. Rather, he just seemed a bit less certain - more fidgety - displayed through the silent tapping of his foot.

[Aventine]

Kalthor couldn't help but snicker at such a philosophical notion being seriously set forwards. Despite his dismissal at the gesture, he seemed to feel that there were some valid points raised.. It was impossible to say if the Satyrs actually started the conflict - At this point it was just about who would win. "I find it hard to keep a straight face at the idea of the Satyrs - who are currently hostile towards Slavia and Seloris - being the pinnacle of the moral compass, it is true that I have not heard of any attempts to speak with them in my lifetime. They pose a great threat to a still chaotic and non-unified Slavia.. In which case this peaceful solution might just ease both the hearts of the peasants as well as the new ruler. It would work out in the long run to subjugate them anyways.. Perhaps in the interest of Slavia's well-being, one might volunteer to try and broker a deal with these Satyrs while whoever ends up with the ownership of the country manages their many other issues?" He smiled slightly at the end of his suggestion, satisfied by his pitch to the group. He was less confident than it seemed the others in the room were; perhaps a bit offput by the power that so many of the men and women held. This was not to say his voice shook with fear or he couldn't maintain eye contact. Rather, he just seemed a bit less certain - more fidgety - displayed through the silent tapping of his foot.

Xa'ic eyes the king: armored, and with armed guards, at a peace summit for a conflict he had no direct part it. And now he snickers and makes mock. "I made no claim about the satyrs being 'the pinnacle of the moral compass.' None here can claim such, nor any between the sky and sea. Though I am intrigued that you would consider being in conflict with yourself, and historically being in conflict with the Slavians, as evidence of moral failure. Do you yourself claim to be a pinnacle of morality? And you admit that you know of no attempt to make contact. Are you so quick to assume that which you know nothing about is bestial? But you are certainly correct that if peace is to be established, contact must be made. Might I take it you are the volunteer of which you spoke? Let us send word north, to learn what may be learned from Eismiir and Marzilerget. The warrior-priest is right, there is much we do not know and ought to."

[Zayuz]

Kalthor bit his tongue at the mention of a republic forming to the south of him at first. If Slavia were dedicated as such then it would be much harder to spur their previously allied country into any ambitious ideas. He cleared his throat, drawing attention to himself. "Pardon me for saying so, but you do not need to rule over a province in order to build schools there. Surely the needs of the people can be negotiated with whatever ruler is chosen. I believe that Slavia should continue as a monarchy, only under the rule of one who is more compassionate in things such as their methods of conscription. To suggest that the new ruler might require a council of babysitters to keep him in line only implies that we as a group have elected a ruler we believe to be incapable of being reasonable and decisive. Whoever we elect deserves the right to prove themselves worthy without the additinal pressures of pleasing everyone in a republic when things call for a tough decision. After all, the imperial monarchy system currently works across the known world; why should we discard a system that isn't broken?" Kalthor spoke calmly while suggesting they move away from the democratic systems, his loathing of electorial processes and councils only slightly leaking through. Hopefully the rest of them would see that such a system would be inefficent and unnecessary - As any reasonable ruler that has Slavia's best interests in mind would.

Xa'ic eyes the king: armored, and with armed guards, at a peace summit for a conflict he had no direct part it. And now he snickers and makes mock. "I made no claim about the satyrs being 'the pinnacle of the moral compass.' None here can claim such, nor any between the sky and sea. Though I am intrigued that you would consider being in conflict with yourself, and historically being in conflict with the Slavians, as evidence of moral failure. Do you yourself claim to be a pinnacle of morality? And you admit that you know of no attempt to make contact. Are you so quick to assume that which you know nothing about is bestial? But you are certainly correct that if peace is to be established, contact must be made. Might I take it you are the volunteer of which you spoke? Let us send word north, to learn what may be learned from Eismiir and Marzilerget. The warrior-priest is right, there is much we do not know and ought to."

Kathor would frown to Xa'ic, as he spoke, staying silent a short moment before smiling and continuing with a slight air of amusement. "Well, you and I know both that Seloris always has been the aforementioned pillar of morality. Just look at our position in the last battle, defending and uniting our Slavian cousins from a threat in which they would have been needlessly slain. Why, the site of my father's death was in the battlefield of Grau Kuste, aiding the downtrodden Slavian people to his last breath. While the others here managed to expell my mother's family, it was my line and none other that managed to reign it's other lands into peaceful surrender."

He sighed in good nature, fading into a more sincere tone.

"While I would love no more than to be the one to reach out to the Satyrs, I fear that the Kingdom of Seloris might not be the best candidate to do so. We now represent the very people they quarreled with in two of Slavia's provinces, and I myself share the blood of those they were at war with for so many years. If we're not met with gunpower then no doubt they would see my approach as one of surrender. I'd rather not give anyone the impression that arson and murder in Selorian owned land is a way to bring about your will. For this reason it might be best if one who currently does not represent their enemies were to reach out to them. If they still attack then, we may have proof of beastiality enough."

[Aedilred]

Spoiler

Show

"You believe he is corrupt for offering aid because you are incompetent." Alluil said bluntly.

Enazan opened his mouth before the Hand of Fate cut him off. "No. As the Hand of Fate, I have something to say to this man."

She moved closer to Gaurang and glared, the first bit of anger she had shown, though she did not draw her blade. "Your false righteousness ring hollow. Your Faith did not stop the Von Orloks from slaughtering their way across the continent, raping and pillaging whoever they pleased. Your Church did not turn Seloris into a respectable kingdom, that was on Vaerin and his son. Shamaran sent missionaries of their own, but they did not sway the Cult. Apianopolis turned of its own accord; there was no bewitchery despite your whining of 'heresy'."

"Shamaran offers us help because like it or not Hawa is a greater threat than us, which you should know already."

"If you are not capable of keeping your flock in line or turning these 'apostates' back to the Shishiyan faith in your holy lands, that is your fault and your problem. Not ours."

She moved back to the wall behind Enazan and leaned against it. "All I had to say."

Enazan looked like someone who had just watched a brand-new gift get set on fire moments before he could touch it. "... what just happened?"

One of the acolytes sniggered. "Your job got a lot harder."

"You have a low estimation of your own congregation's military aptitude, I see, if you consider one battered fleet of pirates to merit more concern than the ten thousand troops of the Sunlands and Apianopolis. I find your reasoning petulant and self-serving; these are matters of eternity and cosmic justice, not those of children squabbling over a game of dice. Your attempts to disavow the actions of Apianopolis would be almsot amusing were they not so serious - even where you did not openly offer assistance in their crimes, we have only your word that your hands are clean in such matters, word which I have no cause to trust. That aside, however, I do not believe peace with the Sunlands or the Cult to be impossible. Indeed I think it, in some measure, desirable, provided certain conditions can be met and assured. I do not, however, believe that such a peace can, under the circumstances, be made lightly. The Cult was the subject of a crusade, and if peace can be achieved at this stage in such a war with no concessions on your part then that crusade should never have been called. Hence why I consider it so remarkable that the very man responsible is willing to abandon his former rhetoric and offer the hand of friendship when hardly anything material has changed, and none of it for the better."

N

Spoiler

Show

ikolay scowled as Gaurang provided his unsolicited input. Nevertheless, his response was calm if tinged with irritation.
"I see that they teach eavesdropping in Shanadeer... Nevertheless, you have heard what I have said to Enazan and though I am not obliged to explain myself to one my junior both in age and rank it seems I am nevertheless obliged to do so. When I say I will not persecute the apostates within my land I mean I will not bring violence to bear against them or force them from their homes or families. Though my rank is primarily theocratic I am also a secular ruler and thus must consider the potential unrest that declaring open inquisition could result in.
"But, should the Grand Mahangar wish it I will put each and every one of them to the sword if they fail to renounce the Sun Cult. That is the punishment for apostasy is it not? I mean, I could use gentle persuasion rather than slaughtering thousands of my own subjects, but if it is the will of Our Most Holy Brother, the Grand Mahangar, then who am I to object?
"Of course, until I hear from him in regard to this I will continue with my initial plan which will be to extract from every citizen of Marandel and Arraham a confession of faith. Those who state their allegiance is to the Sun Cult will be fined and taxed with the money used to establish religious schools. Knights will be dispatched South to put down the Despoiler and bring Alexander to justice and I've no doubt that the Sun Cult will find themselves indebted to us for our assistance against the Skrilling threat."

If Gaurang was fazed he did not show it. "Perhaps if you do not wish to be overheard in future, you should consider speaking less loudly. Nevertheless, that our enemies fight each other does not make one of them our friend. Would it not be better to use this opportunity while they fight amongst themselves to rebuild our own strength after the losses sustained in recent wars rather than waste the lives of the faithful defending the very infidels against whom they were just fighting? From what I have heard, this assault on the Sunlands was prompted by one of your own flock, seeking to turn our foes against each other to give the east time to recover. Or perhaps the matter of a crusade is taken less seriously in Salendera than it is elsewhere. In any case, your conflict of interest has been noted. As to my authority in this matter and that of the Grand Mahangar, have you forgotten that, had the agents of the Sun Cult had their way, he would by now be in their custody? The Cult has struck at the very heart of the Church, defiling the sanctity of your temples and assaulting the very person of our chief, and even if you would prefer to ignore that, I cannot - and nor can the Grand Mahangar."

"I agree." Enazan turned to the People's representative. "What will this government's structure be?"

"Would," Gaurang corrected, but nevertheless turned to listen.

"While I would love no more than to be the one to reach out to the Satyrs, I fear that the Kingdom of Seloris might not be the best candidate to do so. We now represent the very people they quarreled with in two of Slavia's provinces, and I myself share the blood of those they were at war with for so many years. If we're not met with gunpower then no doubt they would see my approach as one of surrender. I'd rather not give anyone the impression that arson and murder in Selorian owned land is a way to bring about your will. For this reason it might be best if one who currently does not represent their enemies were to reach out to them. If they still attack then, we may have proof of beastiality enough."

"The historic crimes of the satyrs are noted, but we are assembled here to construct a peace settlement, are we not? If we are to consider peace with those who we consider have committed crimes against us - many of whom are parties to this discussion - would it not be consistent, not to say just, to permit the satyrs the opportunity to make representations, apology and recompense, before we condemn them to extermination? As you say, if they are no more than dumb beasts, that will quickly become apparent. If they are a people who have merely reacted to misunderstanding and mistreatment, then surely they deserve the same chance as any here."

[Reggiejam]

Natali was quiet as the various dignitaries made their statements in response to her own. As the Selorian king and...elf proceeded to bicker once more about satyrs, an issue none within Slavia had intended to rank quite so highly amidst priorities, she reasserted control of the room with a clearing of her throat and clasping of her hands.

"Bejan, your concerns for the people's knowledge of governance is a legitimate one. I myself am a miner's daughter, many within the Front are farmers, miners, weavers, and laborers of all stripes. We have not benefitted from the education made available to the privileged few titled 'noble' by the Church nor have we received the clerical teachings conferred on even the most basic priest of Church order. We are simple people by virtue of our existence but we have lived and governed our own lives capably enough. Was it not those steeped in the methods of 'proper governance' directed by the singular will of a monarch that not only created the tyranny of the Von Orloks but perpetuated it with inaction and even alliance," with this last word Natali's eyes darted towards King Kalthor.

"Perhaps, Bejan, we are not the shining king whose perfect vision would pull this land from darkness by strength of character alone but we are the people who occupy this land and that alone should give us a voice in its future. I believe the people deserve an authority at least to equal that of any Slavian Duke and it is for this purpose the Assembly is proposed. We recognize the failures and tribulations thrust upon our revolutionary brothers in Ynys y Corsydd. They have suffered much and despite their loyalty to the Church been given little aid in quelling religious discontent nor has the Church focused to address the truly terrifying threat of the Skrillings preferring to focus efforts against mainland Laskists and Sun Cultists. Worthy efforts perhaps for strengthening Church dominion but little comfort for the common people beset by northern raiders."

"You say it was the faithful who won this war and the aid from Salendera and the Demesne was indeed crucial but if governance is merely to be divided among those who are the strongest I fail to see the reason for this summit at all. We should perhaps simply wait until Seloris or Sheol invades our lands and determines who shall lead us. Perhaps you propose we divide this land into proportional administrations for Church, Republic, and Sun Cult?"

The younger man from the Front stepped forward, touching Natali's arm to quiet her rising frustration. He took up speaking.

"Honorable and holy representative of Shanadeer, Martino of Neveran, each of you have brought forth valid concerns and questions for our proposed Assembly. Natali may better explain our hopes for such a structure but to the point of Corsyddian collapse; We in the PRFS have examined thoroughly the actions and events upon the isle that birthed the father of our thought. We have seen not only triumphs for the people unparalleled elsewhere but disastrous mistakes too that have cost our brothers dearly. Chief among these mistakes was the lack of a significant military presence."

"Slavia is a land steeped in violence, it is a necessity for survival among such harsh conditions as we live. We believe sizable militias and self-organized defensive forces can be organized by concentrated effort, vanguards not only against regression and tyranny but capable too of throwing off the foreign aims of hostile powers. So too do we believe a strong Church is necessary for the people's spiritual well-being and to that end support the creation of knightly orders, such as that of the Sacred Martyr, within these lands to defend and preserve the light against the darkness and to protect the people from heresy and occultism. It was the Corsyddian failure to fortify their homeland, and their overreaching in Redrock that has caused much of their current strife."

Having recovered her demeanor Natali stepped forward once more.

"The National Assembly we wish to propose would serve as a, if not the, primary mode of internal governance. This Assembly would direct matters of economic and civic development as well as having capable powers to limit the Duke's own authority with the approval of 2/3 the Assembly. Now, the Church supports Duke Ulric Goth and we of the Front support the Church and its ideals. We would not object to the assignment of military and diplomatic duties to the ducal office. As the Curia of the Phoenix Estates cooperates with the Doge and Suzerain of Shanadeer's homeland we would seek a balance between our own institutions. Let the Duke represent the Slavian nation to outside viewers, let him marshal the forces of our homeland in times of war but so too let the people guide the restoration and development of their homes. We need no more fortresses or castles to which aristocrats might flee the anger of the people. We need schools, we need markets, we need what the people need. It should be the people who lead these efforts not a line which might in time grow removed from its humble origin."

Natali produced a sheet of vellum from a bag that leaned against her chair. She unrolled it and laid it before the dignitaries.

"In an effort to better represent the Slavian people we of the People's Revolutionary Front of Slavia propose the creation of the Slavian National Assembly, a legislative body in the image of the Curia of the Phoenix Estates, whose 33 members will be locally selected in a manner determined by the administrative districts of Slavia as enumerated below.* Special representatives may be appointed to this Assembly to represent the interests of neighboring powers and may participate in any vote although no legislative proposal may be made by any special representative. Local administration within Slavia will be organized to the benefit of the local communities who shall play a major role in shaping the full administration of the Duchy. Powers reserved to the National Assembly shall include: authoring and approving laws for the internal governance of the Duchy; overseeing civic development; overseeing spending and economic policy; veto power over ducal authority with 2/3 Assembly support."

*Pretend there's a list of 19 districts (two reps/district) plus two special representatives for Mortgard (excluded from districting as it's the capital) as well as seats for representatives of Seloris, Shamaran, and the Grand Mahangar as neighbors/major influence wielders.

As the dignitaries craned to look at the document's contents Dimitri, already informed of the proposal, spoke up once more.

"Archpatriarch, you asked if there are records of learned Slavian men. I regret that I do not know though I suspect any such records were lost or destroyed in the civil war. Even had they survived many considered valuable or learned men by the Von Orloks were little more than sycophants and yes men who supported their wicked regime. I would echo the caution I have before expressed and hear repeated here regarding too hasty an assemblage of republican representatives. I nor the the Duke fear the will of the Slavian people but our borders are weak and our cohesion weaker. It would be little trouble for undesirable influence to find its way into such an assembly."

[HalfTangible]

"You have a low estimation of your own congregation's military aptitude, I see, if you consider one battered fleet of pirates to merit more concern than the ten thousand troops of the Sunlands and Apianopolis. I find your reasoning petulant and self-serving; these are matters of eternity and cosmic justice, not those of children squabbling over a game of dice.

"And yet you're behaving like one..."

Your attempts to disavow the actions of Apianopolis would be almsot amusing were they not so serious - even where you did not openly offer assistance in their crimes, we have only your word that your hands are clean in such matters, word which I have no cause to trust. "

Alluil's face remained stony. "Alexander is accused of apostasty - leaving the Church. The Cult was were never part of your church to begin with and as such could not have left it. So no, the Cult is not guilty of Alexander's 'crimes'. Imbecile."

"You speak of cosmic justice and yet consider the Despoiler of the Young to be beneath your notice, while also ignoring both your own crimes and our aid to your church. You sneer that I disavow the actions of Apianopolis while completely ignoring that Slavia's even occurred."

"Your conception of cosmic justice is that of a child who didn't get the toy he wanted for the Solstice; 'they get punished while i get everything i want'. I do not care if you believe what I say. You do not have my respect, nor anything I particularly want."

"That aside, however, I do not believe peace with the Sunlands or the Cult to be impossible. Indeed I think it, in some measure, desirable, provided certain conditions can be met and assured. I do not, however, believe that such a peace can, under the circumstances, be made lightly. The Cult was the subject of a crusade, and if peace can be achieved at this stage in such a war with no concessions on your part then that crusade should never have been called. Hence why I consider it so remarkable that the very man responsible is willing to abandon his former rhetoric and offer the hand of friendship when hardly anything material has changed, and none of it for the better."

"I do." Alluil said quietly. "The Church declares crusade for the smallest slight, attacking anyone who dares tell them 'no'. You've been nothing but trouble and, as you just proved, the Church does not want peace with-"

"Alluil." Enazan said quietly. "That is enough."

"You want me to ignore this?! He-"

"I'm ordering you to." Enazan interrupted. "Please be silent and let me do my job."

Alluil fell silent, glancing at Enazan. Technically he didn't outrank her, but he was right. This was his job.

The Hand of Mercy turned to Gaurang, giving a slight salute. "What's done is done. All we can do now is decide how we move forward. The fact that Shamaran is even willing to speak with us about ending the crusade and aiding us against the Despoiler is a good sign."

"I disagree with my companion that the best option is to keep fighting. Violence cannot solve conflicts. It can push them back temporarily and give you time to rethink your approach, but ultimately that is all it can do: delay. At best, you've solved nothing. At worst you create brand new problems to solve in less time."

"If you wish us to make amends for perceived crimes, I am willing to discuss reparations of some sort. But giving Alexander to you is not an option, even if I leave aside the duty of a faith to protect its flock. As you just saw, some in the Sunlands consider peace with the Church impossible, and such a faction would grow if a Cultist were executed for the crime of 'becoming a Cultist'. The war would begin anew, and this time there would be no negotiation. I hope you realize that there is no point in securing a peace if it immediately leads to another war."

"Would," Gaurang corrected, but nevertheless turned to listen.

"I want something concrete." Enazan explained. "If they don't have a plan in place and ready to go, I don't want to hear it."

"The historic crimes of the satyrs are noted, but we are assembled here to construct a peace settlement, are we not? If we are to consider peace with those who we consider have committed crimes against us - many of whom are parties to this discussion - would it not be consistent, not to say just, to permit the satyrs the opportunity to make representations, apology and recompense, before we condemn them to extermination? As you say, if they are no more than dumb beasts, that will quickly become apparent. If they are a people who have merely reacted to misunderstanding and mistreatment, then surely they deserve the same chance as any here."

"It is possible that the satyrs of this land have no unifying force," Enazan mused aloud. "No King, no Lord, no High Priest who can coordinate their actions. It would explain why their attacks seem to be the actions of mad beasts; there is no plan. Perhaps it would be best to capture a satyr and question it. Find out their current political situation."

---

As the People's representative made their proposal, Enazan frowned. "This assembly seems remarkably slow and ineffective. If a 2/3rds vote is required to do anything, what of immediate emergencies? How will you prevent these districts from gaining their own power at the expense of their neighbors? Getting representatives to this assembly alone would take days, even weeks, so what of absences? And how will these representatives be chosen? If you give that power to the Duke or any one man you have the exact same problem that the assembly was meant to solve in the first place."

[Aedilred]

"And yet you're behaving like one..."

Alluil's face remained stony. "Alexander is accused of apostasty - leaving the Church. The Cult was were never part of your church to begin with and as such could not have left it. So no, the Cult is not guilty of Alexander's 'crimes'. Imbecile."

"You speak of cosmic justice and yet consider the Despoiler of the Young to be beneath your notice, while also ignoring both your own crimes and our aid to your church. You sneer that I disavow the actions of Apianopolis while completely ignoring that Slavia's even occurred."

"Your conception of cosmic justice is that of a child who didn't get the toy he wanted for the Solstice; 'they get punished while i get everything i want'. I do not care if you believe what I say. You do not have my respect, nor anything I particularly want."

"Apostasy is but one of Alexander's crimes. Lest we forget, and it seems you have, he overthrew his predecessor, invaded Seloris, killed its king, and ordered an assault on the person of the Grand Mahangar. All of this was done in the name of your Cult. And at no point have I considered that Hawa is beneath our notice, only that I am capable of holding two ideas in my mind simultaneously, and not renouncing what I believed yesterday simply because there has been a slight change in the wind today."

He turned back to Enazan. "Is this what your religion conceives of as duality? In order to justify sending a competent diplomat to deal with foreigners, it must also send an incompetent one? Is this why your colleague considers six thousand troops to be greater than ten thousand, since the soldiers of the Sunlands are selected on the same basis?

"Shanadeer did not call this crusade, but having invoked the principle of holy war the crusade cannot be abandoned for trifling political ends having gained nothing of any substance, unless the Mahangar of Salendera's intent is to make fools of the faithful and destroy the authority of the Church. If this crusade is to end, there must be concessions, and those concessions must be on the part of the Celestial Cult and its followers. Those are the grounds on which Shanadeer shall have peace, even if Salendera finds its resolve slackening.

"For generations the Celestial Cult was tolerated despite its divergence from acceptable belief because it was in practice a force for stability and did not trouble the Church. Recent actions on its part mean that that is no longer the case. If affairs are to return to their former state, recent events must be answered for. There must be no further active conversions in Shishiyan religious centres, including seats of government, and those sites which have been converted must be permitted to return to oversight of the Church without resistance. Armies of the Sun Cult must undertake no unsolicited military operations in Shishiyan lands. Archduke Alexander must be surrendered to face justice for his crimes. Reparations shall be made for the invasion of Seloris and the assault on the Grand Mahangar. If you wish peace between us as adversaries, then those are our terms. Alternatively, the Sun Cult may amend its doctrine and practices such that its deviations from the Shishiyan faith become acceptable, accept and pronounce the Exalted as supreme and the Chosen as its commander, swear allegiance to Their goals and service in accordance with the word of the prophets. Do this and the Church will treat the Cult as ally, drop any charges of apostasy against the recent converts, and do what it can to assist the Sunlands in restoring, maintaining and elevating its status. The Cult's part in recent events shall be forgiven, and only the crimes of Alexander will demand redress."

[Zayuz]

"Your conception of cosmic justice is that of a child who didn't get the toy he wanted for the Solstice; 'they get punished while i get everything i want'. I do not care if you believe what I say. You do not have my respect, nor anything I particularly want."

"Except for maybe the allegiance of countless faithful across the entire known world." Kalthor quipped from the side, keeping a satisfied grin positioned on his face. Karras hissed his name, silently and unsuccessfully scolding him whilst only barely keeping a smirk away from her own lips

[HalfTangible]

"Apostasy is but one of Alexander's crimes. Lest we forget, and it seems you have, he overthrew his predecessor, invaded Seloris, killed its king, and ordered an assault on the person of the Grand Mahangar. All of this was done in the name of your Cult. And at no point have I considered that Hawa is beneath our notice, only that I am capable of holding two ideas in my mind simultaneously, and not renouncing what I believed yesterday simply because there has been a slight change in the wind today."

Alluil's twitching eye indicated she dearly wished to respond, but she said nothing. It seemed she did respect Enazan's office, if not the man himself.

He turned back to Enazan. "Is this what your religion conceives of as duality? In order to justify sending a competent diplomat to deal with foreigners, it must also send an incompetent one? Is this why your colleague considers six thousand troops to be greater than ten thousand, since the soldiers of the Sunlands are selected on the same basis?

"Shanadeer did not call this crusade, but having invoked the principle of holy war the crusade cannot be abandoned for trifling political ends having gained nothing of any substance, unless the Mahangar of Salendera's intent is to make fools of the faithful and destroy the authority of the Church. If this crusade is to end, there must be concessions, and those concessions must be on the part of the Celestial Cult and its followers. Those are the grounds on which Shanadeer shall have peace, even if Salendera finds its resolve slackening.

"For generations the Celestial Cult was tolerated despite its divergence from acceptable belief because it was in practice a force for stability and did not trouble the Church. Recent actions on its part mean that that is no longer the case. If affairs are to return to their former state, recent events must be answered for. There must be no further active conversions in Shishiyan religious centres, including seats of government, and those sites which have been converted must be permitted to return to oversight of the Church without resistance. Armies of the Sun Cult must undertake no unsolicited military operations in Shishiyan lands. Archduke Alexander must be surrendered to face justice for his crimes. Reparations shall be made for the invasion of Seloris and the assault on the Grand Mahangar. If you wish peace between us as adversaries, then those are our terms. Alternatively, the Sun Cult may amend its doctrine and practices such that its deviations from the Shishiyan faith become acceptable, accept and pronounce the Exalted as supreme and the Chosen as its commander, swear allegiance to Their goals and service in accordance with the word of the prophets. Do this and the Church will treat the Cult as ally, drop any charges of apostasy against the recent converts, and do what it can to assist the Sunlands in restoring, maintaining and elevating its status. The Cult's part in recent events shall be forgiven, and only the crimes of Alexander will demand redress."

Enazan's mouth twitched. "Alluil's job is to deal with enemies with whom negotiation is deemed impossible. She is to be hard, cruel, and above all, uncompromising. As you might imagine, this makes her rather... to put it politely, cynical when dealing with foreign powers. I am meant to deal with friends, and those who could still see reason. I am to be flexible, kind, and as compromising as possible. That is our 'duality'. She is only here because the Avatar demanded it."

"4000 of our troops are worth 8000 of any other*. It was less the numbers that concerned Alluil, I think, and more their motive for the attack. Violence against the Shishiyan church (as you see it) is a terrible crime, to be certain; Despoiling the young and sending them into mass slaughter against the same Church, on the other hand, is far worse and Hawa had done that before going to attack the Sunlands."

Enazan's smile faded entirely. He'd never thought he would meet a diplomat worse than Alluil. "That is not negotiation, that is a series of demands and they are completely unacceptable. You would have us declare the Lunari our foes, the Sun as subservient, and our entire faith as a lie?! I would sooner declare the Avatar your Chosen."

Alluil blinked. "Wouldn't that lead to-"

"I am aware it is a terrible idea, Alluil, that is why I said I would do it sooner, it's meant to show that his idea is even worse!"

"I suggest, Guarang, that in the future you allow people who want peace to negotiate for it." He turned his back on the man, and to the Shamaran representative. "It would seem that our conversation is in too public a sphere."

*Technically only sometimes true - see their specialty

"Except for maybe the allegiance of countless faithful across the entire known world." Kalthor quipped from the side, keeping a satisfied grin positioned on his face. Karras hissed his name, silently and unsuccessfully scolding him whilst only barely keeping a smirk away from her own lips

"Case in point."

Alluil's emotionless eyes turned to Kalthor. "Cute. How is your daughter doing, Karras? I hope you intend to provide the comedian with an heir."

[Aedilred]

Enazan's smile faded entirely. He'd never thought he would meet a diplomat worse than Alluil. "That is not negotiation, that is a series of demands and they are completely unacceptable. You would have us declare the Lunari our foes, the Sun as subservient, and our entire faith as a lie?! I would sooner declare the Avatar your Chosen."

He had not seriously expected the Sun cultists to accept the proposed religious reforms, but it was always worth offering, just in case such matters could be agreed. Equally, that they refused the peace terms was similarly unsurprising; it seemed they were still labouring under the delusion they could win a continuing religious war. Gaurang's expression remained impassive. "If you will not accede to or even consider our reasonable demands for ending a war begotten by your own actions and in which a peace agreement would be to your advantage, then so be it. I bid you good day."

He turned and walked away.

Spoiler: Clarification

Show

The terms were an either/or, rather than a both/and. His proposal is that either the Cult is treated as a former adversary with whom peace is declared - in which case the restrictions on future conversions, troop movements, reconversions and surrender of Alexander are the terms offered, or it undertakes religious reform in which case everything except Alexander's non-apostate crimes are written off as a misunderstanding. Which may well not change your response, but just to be clear in case that was misunderstood

[HalfTangible]

He had not seriously expected the Sun cultists to accept the proposed religious reforms, but it was always worth offering, just in case such matters could be agreed. Equally, that they refused the peace terms was similarly unsurprising; it seemed they were still labouring under the delusion they could win a continuing religious war. Gaurang's expression remained impassive. "If you will not accede to or even consider our reasonable demands for ending a war begotten by your own actions and in which a peace agreement would be to your advantage, then so be it. I bid you good day."

He turned and walked away.

Spoiler: Clarification

Show

The terms were an either/or, rather than a both/and. His proposal is that either the Cult is treated as a former adversary with whom peace is declared - in which case the restrictions on future conversions, troop movements, reconversions and surrender of Alexander are the terms offered, or it undertakes religious reform in which case everything except Alexander's non-apostate crimes are written off as a misunderstanding. Which may well not change your response, but just to be clear in case that was misunderstood

Spoiler

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I did misunderstand, actually.

The first would be largely acceptable up to 'surrendering Alexander', at which point Enazan would try and negotiate further, and I presume that G would walk away anyway.

The latter is just not going to happen.

[Aedilred]

Spoiler

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I did misunderstand, actually.

The first would be largely acceptable up to 'surrendering Alexander', at which point Enazan would try and negotiate further, and I presume that G would walk away anyway.

The latter is just not going to happen.

Spoiler

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If you wanted to pick up negotiations again at some point, possibly after "(IC) reviewing the conversation and realising that there was a misunderstanding", that might be possible. I have a feeling that Alexander may be a deal-breaker, though, unless a compromise can be reached. Would it help if the charge on which he was arrested were not apostasy, but the assault on the GM? From the Church's end, the assault on the GM is already more than enough to damn Alexander, so the charges of apostasy can be, not necessarily dropped, but shelved such that they become a technicality rather than the charge that brings him down. That way the matter becomes not a religious crime but a secular one, and the Cult is covered against accusations it gave up one of its own for the "crime" of conversion, while also taking the position (and implicitly acknowledging a reciprocal one from the Church) that leaders of religions are personally inviolate even in times of war, which could set a useful precedent.

[HalfTangible]

Spoiler

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If you wanted to pick up negotiations again at some point, possibly after "(IC) reviewing the conversation and realising that there was a misunderstanding", that might be possible. I have a feeling that Alexander may be a deal-breaker, though, unless a compromise can be reached. Would it help if the charge on which he was arrested were not apostasy, but the assault on the GM? From the Church's end, the assault on the GM is already more than enough to damn Alexander, so the charges of apostasy can be, not necessarily dropped, but shelved such that they become a technicality rather than the charge that brings him down. That way the matter becomes not a religious crime but a secular one, and the Cult is covered against accusations it gave up one of its own for the "crime" of conversion, while also taking the position (and implicitly acknowledging a reciprocal one from the Church) that leaders of religions are personally inviolate even in times of war, which could set a useful precedent.

Spoiler

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Sounds good, or at least decent. It would raise the Avatar's position to an extent. Enazan would consider it risky, but acceptable. So long as conversions back to Shishiyanism are done peacefully (ie 'dont commit a mass purge') it would mean that the Cult doesn't need to abandon its own, which was the big problem with letting Alexander get arrested.

One of the Acolytes would then come up and ask if Alexander could potentially be let go, if the Avatar was charged for his crimes instead and willingly came forward to stand for them. Alexander is a leader of his people and the Cult's ally, and though his rise is somewhat suspect, that still carries a certain expectation that the Cult will go to bat for them if need be.

((OOC I'm definitely gonna need to give moosabi something big after this given how badly this screws over his current ruler. Most of our relationship has been pretty one-sided so far. That's part of what the Avatar's offer is for))

[Reggiejam]

As the People's representative made their proposal, Enazan frowned. "This assembly seems remarkably slow and ineffective. If a 2/3rds vote is required to do anything, what of immediate emergencies? How will you prevent these districts from gaining their own power at the expense of their neighbors? Getting representatives to this assembly alone would take days, even weeks, so what of absences? And how will these representatives be chosen? If you give that power to the Duke or any one man you have the exact same problem that the assembly was meant to solve in the first place."

"I'm afraid you may have misunderstood our proposal. Requiring a 2/3 majority would only be for matters in which the Assembly wished to execute a veto power against the actions taken by the Slavian Duke who you will see is reserved power over military matters and those of international diplomacy by matter of their omission from the enumerated powers proposed for the Assembly," Natali answered.

"As to your concerns over district infighting it is our belief that the people of Slavia will seek the ultimate betterment of these lands and each district is given an equal number of representatives in the hopes of evenly distributing power within the Assembly. As to travel times, this proposal is for a standing legislative body not an occasionally convened advisory panel. Those chosen to represent the people's interests would be semi-permanent fixtures in government. As to their appointment,"

Natali turned towards the Phoenix Doge, "It was our hope we might consult the legal libraries and books of the Demesne's Curia. Little literature, least of all republican literature, has ever existed much less survived in Slavia. While we had hoped Comrade Terfal might help us further develop these mechanisms of governance in the absence of a Corsyddian representative we must instead lean on that older institution used in the Estates for guidance. However, in the opinions of our uneducated and simple people," the commandant shot a glance at the Church representative, "we believe a system could be developed to allow election of district representatives by those residing in these districts. We believe each man and woman who has fought for Slavian freedom and independence is deserving of a say in their government."

[Minescratcher]

"This sounds to be a reasonable system, though I must agree with the Patriarch that - especially in this current chaos - it would be simple for one faction or even one person to take control and possibly even restore the Black Duke's regime." Martino shot a quick, almost unnoticeable glance at Kalthor.

"My suggestion would be that, for the period until Slavia has recovered from its war, and until the Assembly is ready, the current Duke continues to hold power. By the Patriarch's own admission, there are few in Slavia outside of this building who would understand the system proposed. It would be rather easy for a charismatic speaker to sway the people and hold the full backing of the Assembly.

"As for the selection of representatives, we in Neveran have a similar process to choose the governors. It is not a perfect fit to your ideals, but if its example would help I would be happy to explain it."

---

As shouting erupted from the recesses of the room and Gaurang walked away, Martino sighed audibly and sank down in his chair. The conflict wasn't unexpected (he had honestly expected that one group would refuse to enter the same room as the other), but nothing good would come of it. Being an unofficial mediator was sometimes very difficult, and sometimes impossible.

[Elemental]

"Archpatriarch, you asked if there are records of learned Slavian men. I regret that I do not know though I suspect any such records were lost or destroyed in the civil war. Even had they survived many considered valuable or learned men by the Von Orloks were little more than sycophants and yes men who supported their wicked regime. I would echo the caution I have before expressed and hear repeated here regarding too hasty an assemblage of republican representatives. I nor the the Duke fear the will of the Slavian people but our borders are weak and our cohesion weaker. It would be little trouble for undesirable influence to find its way into such an assembly."

"Forgive me Brother Dimitri, it was my intent to inquire about records of population and taxation in order to facilitate the assignation of representatives for the proposed assembly. I see however that Madam Tarkovsky has already seen to such matters and I am pleased to see that this is no mere suggestion but instead a thought out proposition."
Nikolay cast his eyes over the document, taking it in.
"This all seems in order, however, I propose that the Duke be granted veto rights over the assembly should their agenda prove dangerous. As Interrex of the Kingdom of Shamaran I will of course be available to adjudicate any and all disputes between the Assembly and the Duke.
"Further, I see no particular need for a representative of either Seloris or the Grand Mahangar on this council. The Grand Mahangar is represented already within Slavia by the Church and I do not believe a Selorian advisor is strictly necessary. I of course need no such representation as Slavia is a fief of the Kingdom of Shamaran or at the very least my representative should have no voting right."

"This sounds to be a reasonable system, though I must agree with the Patriarch that - especially in this current chaos - it would be simple for one faction or even one person to take control and possibly even restore the Black Duke's regime." Martino shot a quick, almost unnoticeable glance at Kalthor.

[COLOR="#0000FF"]"My suggestion would be that, for the period until Slavia has recovered from its war, and until the Assembly is ready, the current Duke continues to hold power. By the Patriarch's own admission, there are few in Slavia outside of this building who would understand the system proposed. It would be rather easy for a charismatic speaker to sway the people and hold the full backing of the Assembly.

"This is indeed a situation we should avoid, hence my proposal that as the Assembly keeps the Duke in line, the Duke keeps them in line also. I repeat my offer to stand as arbiter should any dispute between the two cause undue strife. Though some will no doubt find it odd that someone living across the Vogorr should decide such things, I personally consider that the distance will assist my remaining impartial on matters of judgement."

"I suggest, Guarang, that in the future you allow people who want peace to negotiate for it." He turned his back on the man, and to the Shamaran representative. "It would seem that our conversation is in too public a sphere."

Nikolay stood there in stoic silence as this upstart Bejan derailed matters and the Hand of "Fate" argued over what should have been a simple exchange. Truly the Ivory Tower of Shanadeer cast longer shadows than he was led to believe.
"Agreed. Brother Guarang, I understand your concerns, but you overstep your authority and it will be all I can do to salvage this. I will explain myself for the benefit of the Grand Mahangar, but not until I have achieved what I seek."
He nodded politely to the Hand of Mercy.
"If you desire peace Enazan, come to my encampment before you leave and we can begin our discussion again."

[BootStrapTommy]

Spoiler: Seloris

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COLOR="#000000"]"As do I; for I place my trust in both."[/COLOR] Kalthor would reply with a satisfied tone. This would imply both the exalted and the ability of his wife to bear his children. "We've actually already had a daughter just two years past. Her name is Sharae, and I am fortunate to say that she is in good health."

Turning over the discussion to Karras, the young queen would raise an eyebrow at the mention of her beauty, allowing a smile to creep onto her face. "Your words do me a great kindness." She starts, a positive ring coming from her voice. Unlike Kalthor, she did not seem so phased by the power of those around her. It was impossible to ignore those cautious glances of his as he watched the others. Karras luckily had no such fears. "It is wonderful to meet you too; I would certainly have visited you earlier if only Vaerin had allowed our relationship to be more official than it was. Heh, never thought I'd see the day I had a proper Shishiyan wedding; much less one to the king of Seloris." The woman gave her husbands arm a small squeeze as she mentioned his title, prompting a poorly hidden smile from her partner.

Sveta was smiling under her mask. The seeming closeness of the two gave her hope, despite her doubts of the Sunlander girl's intentions. The news of the child, though not new, made the hidden smile even wider.

"Fate is a strange things. I was the daughter of a traitor, anthema save for the mercy of my uncle. I never imagined the rust the Suzerian would put in me when I was put under his charge. And now here I am, elected leader of the City of Flame," and host to the frighteningly ancient being, "A lot can happen in a life time."

Spoiler: Slavia, part 1

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"The National Assembly we wish to propose would serve as a, if not the, primary mode of internal governance. This Assembly would direct matters of economic and civic development as well as having capable powers to limit the Duke's own authority with the approval of 2/3 the Assembly. Now, the Church supports Duke Ulric Goth and we of the Front support the Church and its ideals. We would not object to the assignment of military and diplomatic duties to the ducal office. As the Curia of the Phoenix Estates cooperates with the Doge and Suzerain of Shanadeer's homeland we would seek a balance between our own institutions. Let the Duke represent the Slavian nation to outside viewers, let him marshal the forces of our homeland in times of war but so too let the people guide the restoration and development of their homes. We need no more fortresses or castles to which aristocrats might flee the anger of the people. We need schools, we need markets, we need what the people need. It should be the people who lead these efforts not a line which might in time grow removed from its humble origin."

Natali produced a sheet of vellum from a bag that leaned against her chair. She unrolled it and laid it before the dignitaries.

"In an effort to better represent the Slavian people we of the People's Revolutionary Front of Slavia propose the creation of the Slavian National Assembly, a legislative body in the image of the Curia of the Phoenix Estates, whose 33 members will be locally selected in a manner determined by the administrative districts of Slavia as enumerated below.* Special representatives may be appointed to this Assembly to represent the interests of neighboring powers and may participate in any vote although no legislative proposal may be made by any special representative. Local administration within Slavia will be organized to the benefit of the local communities who shall play a major role in shaping the full administration of the Duchy. Powers reserved to the National Assembly shall include: authoring and approving laws for the internal governance of the Duchy; overseeing civic development; overseeing spending and economic policy; veto power over ducal authority with 2/3 Assembly support."

*Pretend there's a list of 19 districts (two reps/district) plus two special representatives for Mortgard (excluded from districting as it's the capital) as well as seats for representatives of Seloris, Shamaran, and the Grand Mahangar as neighbors/major influence wielders.

As the dignitaries craned to look at the document's contents Dimitri, already informed of the proposal, spoke up once more.

"Archpatriarch, you asked if there are records of learned Slavian men. I regret that I do not know though I suspect any such records were lost or destroyed in the civil war. Even had they survived many considered valuable or learned men by the Von Orloks were little more than sycophants and yes men who supported their wicked regime. I would echo the caution I have before expressed and hear repeated here regarding too hasty an assemblage of republican representatives. I nor the the Duke fear the will of the Slavian people but our borders are weak and our cohesion weaker. It would be little trouble for undesirable influence to find its way into such an assembly."

Spoiler: Slavia, Part 2

Show

Natali turned towards the Phoenix Doge, "It was our hope we might consult the legal libraries and books of the Demesne's Curia. Little literature, least of all republican literature, has ever existed much less survived in Slavia. While we had hoped Comrade Terfal might help us further develop these mechanisms of governance in the absence of a Corsyddian representative we must instead lean on that older institution used in the Estates for guidance. However, in the opinions of our uneducated and simple people," the commandant shot a glance at the Church representative, "we believe a system could be developed to allow election of district representatives by those residing in these districts. We believe each man and woman who has fought for Slavian freedom and independence is deserving of a say in their government."

"This is indeed a situation we should avoid, hence my proposal that as the Assembly keeps the Duke in line, the Duke keeps them in line also. I repeat my offer to stand as arbiter should any dispute between the two cause undue strife. Though some will no doubt find it odd that someone living across the Vogorr should decide such things, I personally consider that the distance will assist my remaining impartial on matters of judgement."

The Suzerain tapped her fingers on the table, appearing pensive a moment. The Assembly's eye toward the Rhunic Republic as a source of inspiration made since, given the age of the institution. But the Estates were subject to numerous checks and balances. The Republic worked by carefully mananged ineffiencies, in all honesty. Finally, Sveta spoke.

"I would be most delighted to aid in such a manner. The legal and literary resources of the Estates are yours to access. Though I think the Mahangar has a point. The Curia is managed carefully through a series of checks and balances, each designed to keep too much power form ending up in any one person's hands. Populism, while certianly an appealing idea, tends towards a tyranny of its own, the tyranny of the majority. I certianly possess the authority to over rule the Curia, though only under very select and limited circumstances, while many actions I take require their blessing. But too many such barriers can be as much of a hassle."

Sveta paused again for a moment, certain the next part might be a hard pill to swallow for the Slavians.

"The Estate also carefully manages those who can participate. Membership of the Curia is reserved for citizens of outstanding and exemplary service. This allows mobility, as even the most common of folk can rise to the occasion, but ensures a certain standard of talent and education in those who rule."

[Zayuz]

Kalthor let out a soft sigh as the assembly near instantly accepted the proposition of this democratic assembly. The questions were of how to make it work rather than should it work at all; and as far as he was concerned, it shouldn't. Though his mind burned with the will to denounce the proposal he read, he knew doing so would only give the others excuse to accuse of sympathizing with the defeated party, if not tear his reasoning in two. Those here seemed not friendly to the prospect of being disagreed at all, especially not by the King of Seloria.. Even with the title, it seemed that he could not escape reputation - Even if it wasn't specifically his. Well, the comment about Seloris being a respectable kingdom was at least an exception to this. He was surprised, if not pleased to hear it coming from one who represented the Sunlands. "If I had my way I would not allow this government to pass. There are more vampires in Slavia than simply the Orloks. I haven't any doubts that they will enter your system and corrupt it to the bone, even if they have to outlive us all to do so. The Kingdom of Seloris will stand by the suggestion of crowning a new king instead of a republic." He declared, letting the papers down softly to the table.

"Case in point."

Alluil's emotionless eyes turned to Kalthor. "Cute. How is your daughter doing, Karras? I hope you intend to provide the comedian with an heir."

Karras would blink to Alluil a moment before answering, almost not realizing she was spoken to through the thick discussion. "Ah.. For she is well. An heir worthy enough I hope - I don't think it's been decreed that only men can inherit. If she turns out poorly as a child we may introduce such requirement into law, so I intend to foster a few more just in case." She smiled slightly at the thought, shifting in her chair. "And how are things in the Sunlands? It's been many years since I've visited.. After all, I never really did give a proper goodbye."

Sveta was smiling under her mask. The seeming closeness of the two gave her hope, despite her doubts of the Sunlander girl's intentions. The news of the child, though not new, made the hidden smile even wider.

"Fate is a strange things. I was the daughter of a traitor, anthema save for the mercy of my uncle. I never imagined the rust the Suzerian would put in me when I was put under his charge. And now here I am, elected leader of the City of Flame," and host to the frighteningly ancient being, "A lot can happen in a life time."

"Very true - Maybe we'll even see Slavia become the republic of peace and goodness if things keep going as they are." Kalthor would suggest neutrally, rubbing the hand he leaned on over his temple. It was unclear if such was a joke or a legitimate suggestion, but he wasn't about to elaborate. "I don't think I ever made comment on your ascension to leader by the way. From what I heard it is a deed most impressive - Glad am I to have such capable family members."

[HalfTangible]

Sveta was smiling under her mask. The seeming closeness of the two gave her hope, despite her doubts of the Sunlander girl's intentions. The news of the child, though not new, made the hidden smile even wider.

"Fate is a strange things. I was the daughter of a traitor, anthema save for the mercy of my uncle. I never imagined the rust the Suzerian would put in me when I was put under his charge. And now here I am, elected leader of the City of Flame," and host to the frighteningly ancient being, "A lot can happen in a life time."

The Suzerain tapped her fingers on the table, appearing pensive a moment. The Assembly's eye toward the Rhunic Republic as a source of inspiration made since, given the age of the institution. But the Estates were subject to numerous checks and balances. The Republic worked by carefully mananged ineffiencies, in all honesty. Finally, Sveta spoke.

"I would be most delighted to aid in such a manner. The legal and literary resources of the Estates are yours to access. Though I think the Mahangar has a point. The Curia is managed carefully through a series of checks and balances, each designed to keep too much power form ending up in any one person's hands. Populism, while certianly an appealing idea, tends towards a tyranny of its own, the tyranny of the majority. I certianly possess the authority to over rule the Curia, though only under very select and limited circumstances, while many actions I take require their blessing. But too many such barriers can be as much of a hassle."

Sveta paused again for a moment, certain the next part might be a hard pill to swallow for the Slavians.

"The Estate also carefully manages those who can participate. Membership of the Curia is reserved for citizens of outstanding and exemplary service. This allows mobility, as even the most common of folk can rise to the occasion, but ensures a certain standard of talent and education in those who rule."

Kalthor let out a soft sigh as the assembly near instantly accepted the proposition of this democratic assembly. The questions were of how to make it work rather than should it work at all; and as far as he was concerned, it shouldn't. Though his mind burned with the will to denounce the proposal he read, he knew doing so would only give the others excuse to accuse of sympathizing with the defeated party, if not tear his reasoning in two. Those here seemed not friendly to the prospect of being disagreed at all, especially not by the King of Seloria.. Even with the title, it seemed that he could not escape reputation - Even if it wasn't specifically his. Well, the comment about Seloris being a respectable kingdom was at least an exception to this. He was surprised, if not pleased to hear it coming from one who represented the Sunlands. "If I had my way I would not allow this government to pass. There are more vampires in Slavia than simply the Orloks. I haven't any doubts that they will enter your system and corrupt it to the bone, even if they have to outlive us all to do so. The Kingdom of Seloris will stand by the suggestion of crowning a new king instead of a republic." He declared, letting the papers down softly to the table.

"The King could be corrupted, too." Enazan pointed out. "The Van Orloks themselves were blood relations, after all. It is not enough to stick a bloodline into place and call it a day. At the same time, we cannot hand over control to every peasant with an axe to grind; that would quickly devolve into mob rule. And the proposed assembly, while not entirely objectionable, has too many flaws to address in full."

"I propose that the people are represented in another way; an organization dedicated to the investigation of corruption and dereliction of duty. The people will be able to join if they can prove themselves competent." He pointed to the People's representative. "Inquisitive people of character, skill, and determination, dedicated to rooting out threats to the land of Slavia, even amongst nobles and kings."

Karras would blink to Alluil a moment before answering, almost not realizing she was spoken to through the thick discussion. "Ah.. For she is well. An heir worthy enough I hope - I don't think it's been decreed that only men can inherit. If she turns out poorly as a child we may introduce such requirement into law, so I intend to foster a few more just in case." She smiled slightly at the thought, shifting in her chair. "And how are things in the Sunlands? It's been many years since I've visited.. After all, I never really did give a proper goodbye."

"The Sunlands shine as they always do." She glanced at Kalthor a moment, then looked back to Karras. "Your wedding was Shishiyan. Do you keep the faith?"

"Forgive me Brother Dimitri, it was my intent to inquire about records of population and taxation in order to facilitate the assignation of representatives for the proposed assembly. I see however that Madam Tarkovsky has already seen to such matters and I am pleased to see that this is no mere suggestion but instead a thought out proposition."
Nikolay cast his eyes over the document, taking it in.
"This all seems in order, however, I propose that the Duke be granted veto rights over the assembly should their agenda prove dangerous. As Interrex of the Kingdom of Shamaran I will of course be available to adjudicate any and all disputes between the Assembly and the Duke.
"Further, I see no particular need for a representative of either Seloris or the Grand Mahangar on this council. The Grand Mahangar is represented already within Slavia by the Church and I do not believe a Selorian advisor is strictly necessary. I of course need no such representation as Slavia is a fief of the Kingdom of Shamaran or at the very least my representative should have no voting right."

"This is indeed a situation we should avoid, hence my proposal that as the Assembly keeps the Duke in line, the Duke keeps them in line also. I repeat my offer to stand as arbiter should any dispute between the two cause undue strife. Though some will no doubt find it odd that someone living across the Vogorr should decide such things, I personally consider that the distance will assist my remaining impartial on matters of judgement."

"Lightbringer remains." Enazan pointed out. "He has proven his loyalty to the common folk many times over, and rallied many to his Burning Company."

Nikolay stood there in stoic silence as this upstart Bejan derailed matters and the Hand of "Fate" argued over what should have been a simple exchange. Truly the Ivory Tower of Shanadeer cast longer shadows than he was led to believe.
"Agreed. Brother Guarang, I understand your concerns, but you overstep your authority and it will be all I can do to salvage this. I will explain myself for the benefit of the Grand Mahangar, but not until I have achieved what I seek."
He nodded politely to the Hand of Mercy.
"If you desire peace Enazan, come to my encampment before you leave and we can begin our discussion again."

Later...

Enazan came alone to Nikolay's encampment.