Perfect Movies

[90,000]

But if I had to pick one movie as a perfect film, I would without hesitation say Wild Strawberries. The Seventh Seal gets all the love, but I think Wild Strawberries is a much better film.

Wild Strawberries gets a fair amount of love.

I'd say it's fairly tied up between The Seventh Seal, Persona, Wild Strawberries and Fanny och Alexander.

[Kato]

I'll agree with the "nothing is perfect" people, because clearly this is perfectly subjective. Movies are made to be enjoyed by people, and enjoyment is subjective. Even if the execution is flawless, you can not possibly make a movie, everyone will enjoy. Period. Of course you can start blaming people for "not getting" your perfect movie, or using even more accusing phrasing but does that improve that movies quality?

Of course in so far you can at best have a movie that you consider perfect, possibly something that was made especially to your tastes and hits the nail on the head. I guess those movies exist, albeit I'd be hard pressed to name them for me. There are certainly things where I'd say "they knew exactly what they were going for and they did it very well/perfect". But then there will be people who have absolutely no interest in that kind of thing and who will laugh at you if you call the movie perfect. i.e. Alien(s) are very well made movies, considering their age and genre and most people who like those genres will agree they are close to flawless. But it's not hard to find people who consider them laughable because they have no interest in scifi and/or horror. And I'm not going to call these people stupid for that. For example, I love Deadpool, which is a stupid, at times gross, violent, childish super "hero" movie. But when i watch it i feel the producers knew what the fans were looking for and they tailored their movie according to that. And yet it's perfectly acceptable to find a load of flaws in the movie, if you think the basic idea is stupid, obviously.

[dehro]

That nothing is absolutely perfect is kind of a given. Sure, photography, special effects, choreography everything can be graded according to personal taste and personal evaluation on what is perfect.. I think that we can however agree that there's a bunch of films that we find ourselves hard put to improve on them. Sure, stuff changes and so do production values, sense of humour and other things, but for the times they came out in, many films can at least aspire to be called as close as perfect as can be.
Those movies, when they come on, you just have to watch, no matter if you've seen them a hundred times already.
You're browsing and you have maybe a dvd ready to pop in, or something saved and downloaded.. then you happen on one of those titles and your evening is set. You just have to watch that classic movie, and sod everything else. That, to me, is a perfect movie.
The Blues Brothers is one such movie for me

[Donnadogsoth]

No idea, I haven't watched it.

Humour me. How would you improve on any of the films given which others have listed as perfect?

[Cikomyr]

I'm also in the "nothing is perfect" camp, or rather, there can be perfect but I don't think I'm qualified to judge. Even my favorite movies contain things that can be improved upon. For that matter, there are better movies that I do not like, because taste and quality are not the same thing.

But that's the thing. My submission, "Dinner of Idiot", is not my favourite movie. Its also not the best movie I know.

The reason i call it the perfect movie is because there is nothing you could change/add/remove to make it better. It has attained the peak of comedic realisation that fully matched its potential.

You cannot improve that movie. And its the only movie i know that i can say that.

[Ruslan]

No idea, I haven't watched it.

One might say that expressing such a strong opinion about a movie you didn't even watch is ... the launch point of fanaticism ... ?

[Cikomyr]

I kind of agree there. Saying in broad speech that "nothing can be perfect" is arrogant presumption.

I given a strong example of a "perfect" lighthearted comedy movie. That does not mean its the ultimate/best lighthearted comedy movie. Just that there is literally nothing you can add to it to make it better, its as good as it can possibly be.

You cannot prove a negative. The best you can do is prove that there is no current example by refuting the examples of a perfect movie people put forward. Doing anything else is making an arrogant sweeping declaration.

[Aotrs Commander]

One might say that expressing such a strong opinion about a movie you didn't even watch is ... the launch point of fanaticism ... ?

Leaving aside Cizak's expressed opinion about Ghost specifically was nothing more than "I've never watched it;"

Not really, no.

I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, I would not find Ghost (or Lost or Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad or yes, even Godfather or for that matter, watching a football-slash-insert-sport-here-game or Legend of Zelda: whatever the current game is called again) remotely tolerable and would be utterly bored out of my skull. I don't need to watch it to know that, because, y'know, I know what I like and those aforementioned are... not it. (And I can probably say the same for the majority of the films people have mentioned, actually.)



On top of that, it doesn't even matter how well technically executed something is (and in order for it even to gain that much, it would have to likely be pointed out to me by someone with expertise like, I dunno, Kyle Kallgren or something), but if it something fundementally does absolutely nothing for me, it is not ever going to be in the running for "good," let alone "perfect" in the Bleakbane metric. Even that thing has phenominal historical interest or importance, that does not mean I will or even can like it as a piece of entertainment media in its own right; in such a case, I am far more likely to be interested in said historical importance surround in the piece than the piece itself.

I kind of agree there. Saying in broad speech that "nothing can be perfect" is arrogant presumption.

I given a strong example of a "perfect" lighthearted comedy movie. That does not mean its the ultimate/best lighthearted comedy movie. Just that there is literally nothing you can add to it to make it better, its as good as it can possibly be.

You cannot prove a negative. The best you can do is prove that there is no current example by refuting the examples of a perfect movie people put forward. Doing anything else is making an arrogant sweeping declaration.

Nothing IS perfect, except in a hyberbolic statement. Anywhere, anywhen. Reality is inherently imperfect - woefuly so, and you can't make a silk purse out os a sow's ear.

You can make "really good" by the metric of an individual, perhaps, but perfection is an ideal, not realisable practical reality.

[Dr.Samurai]

Look, you can say "this movie cannot be improved" and someone else will say "you can improve it this way" and BAM! suddenly you have a disagreement and we fall back on "it's subjective". It's not saying that "this is your favorite movie", it's saying "you think it can't be improved, but I think it can be".

Frankly, I take this thread to mean "really really really good movies". Saying something is "perfect" in all seriousness is a bit much.

I gave the example of Alien. When I say I think it's perfect in the context of this thread, I'm really saying it's "near perfect".

[Ruslan]

I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, I would not find Ghost (or Lost or Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad or yes, even Godfather or for that matter, watching a football-slash-insert-sport-here-game or Legend of Zelda: whatever the current game is called again) remotely tolerable

Well, that's more of an expression of opinion about you (which kind of movies you are likely to dislike). And since you are obviously an expert on the subject matter of your own preferences, I'm more than willing to trust you on that.

[Cikomyr]

Nothing IS perfect, except in a hyberbolic statement. Anywhere, anywhen. Reality is inherently imperfect - woefuly so, and you can't make a silk purse out os a sow's ear.

You can make "really good" by the metric of an individual, perhaps, but perfection is an ideal, not realisable practical reality.

That is so untrue.

I can show you a Perfect Circle. BAM, perfect. And lets not quibble over microns; "perfect" we are discussing is "perfect for all acceptable purposes".

I think the simpler something is, the easier it is to assess whether or not it can be perfect or not. "Dinner of Idiots" is a very, very simple movie, really. Its based on a comedy play, and somewhat acts out as one, but with everything carefully measured and controlled to have the best experience.

It is perfect for what it is, and while i agree that any proposed change you would make might end up as a subjective assessment, i still dare you to propose your change.

I do not worship this movie, and would be willing to accept that i am wrong about it. But no one ever thought of a way of making THAT movie better.

Obviously, those who dislike the movie are usually people who dont like that kind of movie to begin with. But for any fan of bantering light comedy (who speak french), its a perfect gem.

[Cipojo]

I really enjoyed "sky captain and the world of tomorrow," awesome movie that I really enjoyed as a kid

[Kato]

I think we need to agree on a proper definition of perfect. Flawless might just mean "nothing to improve " but what needs improvement can also be highly subjective. What some people consider perfect foreshadowing is an obvious give away to others, what some think is deeply emotional can also be perceived as sappy. Again, I don't think you can objectively claim either is right or wrong.
Of course, as a person you can have a lot of movies you consider flawless, but it's far too easy to find someone who will rightfully disagree with you.

[Cikomyr]

I really enjoyed "sky captain and the world of tomorrow," awesome movie that I really enjoyed as a kid

I think anything "you enjoyed as a kid" should be taken with a HEAVY grain of salt and suspicions. Nostalgia makes weird thing to the quality of any entertainment ;)

[Donnadogsoth]

Look, you can say "this movie cannot be improved" and someone else will say "you can improve it this way" and BAM! suddenly you have a disagreement and we fall back on "it's subjective". It's not saying that "this is your favorite movie", it's saying "you think it can't be improved, but I think it can be".

Frankly, I take this thread to mean "really really really good movies". Saying something is "perfect" in all seriousness is a bit much.

I gave the example of Alien. When I say I think it's perfect in the context of this thread, I'm really saying it's "near perfect".

How could Alien be perfected?

[Sith_Happens]

Mad Max: Fury Road. There's not a single thing about it I could ever think for a second about changing even the tiniest bit. Heck, just thinking about that movie two years later still makes me feel all giddy inside. Also props to it being one of the few true action movies in history.

[Dr.Samurai]

How could Alien be perfected?

I don't know. I think it's perfect. But my point is that I don't think it's "objectively" perfect. I know some people complain that it starts out too slow. I don't agree, but I tend to like stuff that starts out completely normal (some people read as boring) to build the context in which the plot is going to take place.

I don't think that anyone can say a movie is "objectively" perfect.

[Yora]

Yojimbo
Alien
The Empire Strikes Back
The Thing
Blade Runner
Aliens
Ghost in the Shell
Princess Mononoke
Inception

These are movies that I all regard as flawless.

[Velaryon]

Godfather 2 is hard to find a flaw. I think Godfather 1 comes close though parts of the middle drag slightly. It makes up for it with Brando's performance though.

The only thing I didn't like about The Godfather Part 2 is that there wasn't a whole lot of direct connection between the stories of young Vito Corleone and modern (at the time) Michael Corleone. It was like watching two completely separate movies at the same time, like channel flipping between two films in a series that were set decades apart. I would rather they had simply expanded each story into its own separate film since I didn't feel like there was a whole lot of reason for them to be together in one movie. This would also have the benefit of making it into a trilogy without having The Godfather Part 3, which is pretty much universally agreed to be terrible.

What Terminator 2 does right in my opinion is that it is a perfect sequel. It takes everything about the original movie (the concepts, the lore, the events) and builds it up better. We get a more interesting fight of machine vs. machine for higher stakes, more lore around Skynet and the Resistance, and callbacks to the previous movie that is nested well in this story. I often see movie reviewers use T2 as the measuring stick for what makes a good sequel. I think it's well deserved.

Terminator 2 is my perfect action film. It does all the things I want an action film to do (great battle scenes, exciting and tense chases, great quotable lines, badass hero, fearsome villain, interesting side characters) while also having an interesting story with an underlying message ("the future is not set"). I can see how others might not feel the same - John Connor is very much a product of his time and can come off to some as trying too hard to be cool, for example, but I liked him.

I can think of no way in which this film can be improved, nor any film in its genre that I think is better.

If only Hollywood had left it alone after that, instead of trying to squeeze more money out of the franchise with three more pretty terrible movies.

[Cizak]

Humour me. How would you improve on any of the films given which others have listed as perfect?

Quick rundown, the time since I watched these vary greatly, all of these could be expanded and discussed more in depth:

Spoiler

Show

Alien: The build-up is dragging. Ripley dressing down to panties and showing butt is completely unnecessary.
Aliens: Sexist banter. Newt's feelings about her parents are ignored in favor of her relationship with Ridley.
Mad Max Fury Road: Some of Hardy's lines are too obviously dubbed. The CGI wheel in the climax sticks out from the rest of the movie's practical effects. I'm sceptical of the medical practices at the end.
The Princess Bride: The present time stuff feels out of place. Just have it be a fairy tale film.
Titanic: Rose is a terrible person.
The Incredibles: A machine built by the villain is a less exciting final boss fight than the villain themself.
John Carpenter's The Thing: Characters leave little to no impression.
Spirited Away: Ignores an engaging narrative in favor of pretty animation too much at times.
Pan's Labyrinth: Leaving it up to interpretation whether or not the fantasy was real would have been better, as they did before Ofelia got out of the locked room.
The Empire Strikes Back: Not telling Luke about Darth Vader being his father is a stupid move both by Yoda and Obi Wan. I can't remember if the training time plothole has been solved or not, if not then it's major. Boba Fett is underplayed (and overrated).
Inception: The artsyness can't sustain its length.
Terminator 2: "I need a vacation" is out of place. Some of the extra scenes from the director's cut should have been in the original, some of them should have stayed out. Miles Dyson's (widowed) family is ignored.

Some of these are among my favorite movies.

One might say that expressing such a strong opinion about a movie you didn't even watch is ... the launch point of fanaticism ... ?

Not even remotely. The closest thing I am fanatic about is criticism itself, but on the other hand I think the two are incompatible, and on the third hand I could criticise criticism for just as long as I could criticise a movie. I haven't expressed any opinion of Ghost at all,, because I haven't watched it. The only thing I'm saying is that I fully believe it cannot be perfect because I don't believe perfect art exists, and talking as if it does is actively harmful to any society. That's as far as my reach goes on Ghost. I can't criticise it further as of right now.

I kind of agree there. Saying in broad speech that "nothing can be perfect" is arrogant presumption.

I'll take arrogance of other more dangerous viewpoints.

[razorback]

While I agree in that there isn't any 'perfect' movie, I think a lot are pretty damned close.

I think, even better than a technically perfect movie is a movie that you can watch anytime. Something you have on some format (DVD, Blu-Ray, etc) but, when it comes on TV you can pick up where ever it is, whenever it comes on, and sit down and watch it.
The Thing (John Carpenter), Big Trouble in LIttle China, Escape from New York, The Outlaw Josey Wales, The Matrix (just the first one), Aliens, The Princess Bride, Terminator and Terminator II, Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, pretty much any of the Sergio Leone/Clint Eastwood westerns, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Star Wars episodes 4-6, Silverado... I could keep going on, just like everyone else could. These, to me, are perfect movies because, even though I know most/all of the twist and turns along with being able to provide most/all of the dialogue, I can just sit down right now and watch any one of them. 2+ times in a row.

[Ruslan]

Public Service Announcement

Also, comments that are pointless negation of the purpose of a thread ("threadcrapping") or comments predicting the thread will end badly ("doomsaying") are also likely to be trolling.

Do not try to negate the very purpose of the thread. It's not just a good idea, it's the law.

[thorgrim29]

Seconding "Le diner de cons" (I have a friend with a sister named Marlène, and contrary to what you might think it doesn't stop being funny). It and "Les visiteurs" (the first one) are pretty un-improvable. They are also very very french so not everyone will like them, even here in Québec some people tend not to like french comedies so I can't imagine what somebody who doesn't speak the language would think.

[Cizak]

Public Service Announcement

Do not try to negate the very purpose of the thread. It's not just a good idea, it's the law.

If the purpose of the thread is to discuss which movies we deem perfect, is it negating the purpose to state why I don't think any movie is perfect? Genuine question.

[Cikomyr]

If the purpose of the thread is to discuss which movies we deem perfect, is it negating the purpose to state why I don't think any movie is perfect? Genuine question.

Kind of is, yes.

[Ruslan]

Especially when you add "and talking as if it does is actively harmful to any society". That's like the epitome of threadcrapping. "Your thread is harmful to any society". Smooth.

Anyway, back to the subject: "Dinner of Idiots" - is this the movie that Dinner for Schmucks is a remake of?

[thorgrim29]

Yeah though from what I heard it's a pale pale imitation at best

[sktarq]

Yes - but do not watch the US version. It is a blight on the name of the original.

Edit:*ninjaed*

Also "nothing I would change" is a very bad measure. For while many may find Mad Max Fury Road a great movie - or even nearing perfection it made me want to spit and I needed time to seriously de stress for how bad I found it. I would have changed almost everything about it. But while those changes would have made it a far better movie for me they would have ruined it for someone who found the movie great as is.

[Ruslan]

Yes - but do not watch the US version. It is a blight on the name of the original.

Too late. Already did. Will look up the original, though.

[Knaight]

One might say that expressing such a strong opinion about a movie you didn't even watch is ... the launch point of fanaticism ... ?

It's not about that specific movie - it's about how art, in general, cannot be made perfect. That's a conclusion that can be come to reasonably without seeing every movie, reading every book, watching every play, looking at every statue, etc. It just involves making an inductive leap at some point. Having seen, read, watched, looked at, and otherwise interacted with lots of art, I'd agree with the idea that no art is perfect. Every movie I've seen has at least one line that could have been written better, or one set piece that could have been better made, or whatever else. With that said, there's a handful of movies where that's about all I can find, that are at least close to perfect. Notably:
Oh, Brother, Where Art Thou?
Burn After Reading
Stranger Than Fiction
Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels
In Bruges
HERO