Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

[Cikomyr]

Btw. Episode 6 was aired yestersay. Please keep everything in spoiler tag :-D

[JadedDM]

The show has apparently been making CBS quite a bit of money. They've confirmed there will be a second season.

[Cikomyr]

Both because i want to be nice to other people, and because i would be a huge Hippocrite if i didnt did as i ask, here is SPOILER TAGGED comments about Episode 6

Spoiler

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What a great episode. A Great Episode.

First of all: to those who protest at the idea of Vulcan terrorist, go rewatch the TNG episode "Gambit" before saying anything.

I LOVE the Discovery Vulcans. They are not lifeless like Enterprise's Vulcans. That was great acting on the part of everyone involved.

Stammets is starting to be way cooler overall. Or maybe he is being possessed by the Parasite Gene. Either way, he is nicer to see on screen i say.

I have a comment to say. The reason i love Rogue One so much is because, in my opinion, a good prequel should enhance the original movie's meaning in a way that only heightens emotional struggle. Rogue One was great especially because all the struggle of A New Hope is heightened due to the size of the sacrifice we witnessed in Rogue One.

Same thing with Discovery. Suddenly, the Animosity Starfleet/Kirk has for the Klingons is hitting home MUCH closer than it ever has. A very, very violent war suffered and barely fought to a stalemate is still fresh in everyone's mind...

...it also puts some sad emphasis on Kor's retelling of his wartales during DS9, when you know he killed Starfleet and Federation people. When he brags of the "Ambush of So-So", you know that this was during the very war we are currently witnessing.

However, this episode.. really added a whole new massive ****ing spin on WHY Sarek was so ****ing bitter about Spock joining Starfleet.

Suddenly, Sarek's misjudgement of his.. children adds quite the tragic spin.

Suddenly, what was merely a resentful father being vindictive for being unable to control his son's life becomes a self-hating sentiment that Sarek projects at the thought that he betrayed his adoptive daughter in favor of a son who spoiled every advantages this sacrifice would have earned.

This was great. Ash cleans up gooooood.

[JadedDM]

Agreed with all of the above. Here are some of my own thoughts:

Spoiler: S1E6 - Lethe

Show

Lorca comments that Ash 'fights like a Klingon.' Hmm.

Shout out to the Enterprise!

I've noticed that phasers have a little light on them in this series. Blue is for stun, red is for kill. Note what color Lorca's phaser that he keeps under his pillow was when he pulls it on Cornwell.

Nice to know Seattle still exists in the future.

And yeah, the 'logic extremists' definitely made me think of the Vulcan Isolationist Movement in TNG.

[thatSeniorGuy]

The show has apparently been making CBS quite a bit of money. They've confirmed there will be a second season.

Overall, I've been enjoying the show so far, and this makes me really happy. I was afraid the CBS' decision to lock Discovery behind an online service would absolutely wreck any chance it had of surviving, and that it would spell the end of any future Trek series. Glad to know that it's not the case!

[Rogar Demonblud]

Apparently, it was pretty much paid for by the Netflix International money.

[Olinser]

Apparently, it was pretty much paid for by the Netflix International money.

Yes, it was basically paid for by Netflix, so the only surprise would be if it DIDN'T get renewed for a second season. CBS has refused to release actual numbers for how many people are actually signing up for CBS All Access, but the Pilot, which aired on TV, did not have great ratings.

It only had 9.5ish million viewers for the first episode of the pilot.

For reference, previous Trek series had the following Pilot viewers:

Next Generation - 15.7 million
Deep Space Nine - 18.8 million
Voyager - 21.3 million
Enterprise - 12.5 million (and it aired on UPN for crying out loud)

As a Trek show its already by far the weakest, and indications from the studio is that it is far underperforming their expectations but they are going to continue. The only question is whether Netflix is going to be willing to shell out for Season 2. If they decline to pay through the nose for it (which seems to be more likely), then it may very well get cancelled after 2 seasons.

[SuperPanda]

S01e06

Spoiler: Nits must be picked

Show

Vulcan has no moon (TOS)- but it is close enough to Delta Vega to be seen in that world's sky (ST'09) and has been seen with other bodies in the sky before (TMP, DSC). On rematch: One of those bodies is way too big to be a moon. Is Vulcan the moon of a gas giant or are then on a Vulcan colony?

"Logic Extremist" - this nit is only about the name. The concept of Vulcan supremacists, isolationists, and traditionalists who dislike the new approach is not only appropriate but perfectly fits in the the chronology created by ENT and TNG. It doesn't fit Spock's representation of Vulcan society in TOS but then the Vulcans tend to project and ideal of their own people in all series. Still calling them "Vulcan Supremacists" or "Purists" was probably too on the nose for the reveal later in the episode.

The holodeck? - Only then I remembered that NX-01 had hologram target practice and I heard that NCC-1701 had a "Recreation Deck" which was a visual only holographic entertainment facility (TAS). Tyler couldn't feel getting shot either. So I was going to complain, but this actually makes a good experimental bridge between ENT's technlogy and TNG's. Nicely played.

Still jumping using Stamets - Of course they are, Lorca wouldn't give up his tech for this. Still, it makes me uncomfortable how much time goes between something clearly being a problem and someone doing something about it. Burnam notices Ripper's plight and waits 3 weeks to do anything (with many jumps in between). Lorca knows Stamets nearly died before and is still okay using him to power the jump (True Lorca did seem a little concerned and their relationship wasn't exactly friendly before - but still).

They seem to be pushing the "Ash is Klingon" angle hard

Lorca phaser stinger - I'm pretty sure I know where they are going with this but a combination of that stinger and the preview for next week left a bad taste in my mouth when it didn't have to. I absolutely loved this episode and I'm a bit sad the show didn't let it end with Sarek and Michael's stuff or Cornwall's capture. The Lorca stinger was good, and it was wonderfully in-character, but I just wish it was how we started an episode rather than finished one.

background technicolor nebula was distracting - real nebula are plenty gorgeous as they are.

The biggest Nit of all thought? That flippin' stupid face jewelry from Into Darkness comes back. That Klingon female at the end has so many chains and such on her face I was surprised she could see.

Spoiler: Time to Gush

Show

The running scene made DSC feel more real to me - though I wonder about the scale of the ship given the views we've seen... I can't help but feel the dimensions of the exterior in that gorgeous shot don't match the dimensions of the interior. Oh look, a nit snuck in. Now that is picked I can go back to gushing. The conversation felt real and created a wonderful bookend for their arc this episode.

Vulcan looked gorgeous and that ship looked like a boxier, more rugged, Vulcan ship from ENT. It looked almost like a vulcan ship incorporating Andorian tech/aesthetics to me. Felt Star Trek while being a nice updated design (much like the USS Shenzhou).

Computer Add Salsa - plus computer commentary was wonderful. Since "Food Synthesizer" in ENT/TOS was basically a less developed Replicator already I liked the cafeteria tech on display. The whole exchange about food between Mike and Tilly was hilarious and very relatable.

I really like Ash - he has enough manerisms which keep the Klingon angle alive while still feeling completely believable. They'll need to do a great job on the reveal to sell me that he was a Klingon Augment the whole time. Either way I'm loving the character and performance.

The Sarek storyline is exactly what we needed to put to bed the "bad fanfic" taste of Spock's famous secret sister.

Tiny Wrath of Khan era Alert affect on the main viewer's HUD. Wondeful little easter-egg.

Drugged out Stamets is hilarious, and oooh boooy how many drug references can they fit in that scene. Lorca's reaction are comedic gold throughout that scene and I really hope that develops into something.

I love the shuttle! Its like a marriage of the ENT shuttle pod, the TNG shuttle craft, and the DS9 runabout. If you replace the Galileo (TOS Shuttle) with this it shows a wonderful tech progression.


I'm pretty sure I know where they are going with Lorca and I'm loving it.

Spoiler: Prediction

Show

I don't think Lorca is a villain but I think he's going to come within spitting distance of being irredeemable. He's clearly broken and suffering some form of PTSD. Cornwall's kidnapping is a boon for him and he wants to leave her to die, but she is also his friend and I think he knows he's broken and is going to have to confront it. I want to see him struggle with this and finally decide to do the right thing despite the temptation not to. This is why I'm upset with the episode ending, I'm pretty sure he's going to mount a rescue, against orders,
sooner or later. This felt done to create controversy as people debate whether or not Lorca is a Mirror Universe baddie or trying to follow orders and get better.

Spoiler: Question

Show

Did anyone else notice Ash Tyler was wearing bronze in the mess hall but black in the shuttle - his uniform accents were black. This is the first time I've noticed Black accents since they were called out as rare in Episode 3.

Yes, it was basically paid for by Netflix, so the only surprise would be if it DIDN'T get renewed for a second season. CBS has refused to release actual numbers for how many people are actually signing up for CBS All Access, but the Pilot, which aired on TV, did not have great ratings.

It only had 9.5ish million viewers for the first episode of the pilot.

For reference, previous Trek series had the following Pilot viewers:

Next Generation - 15.7 million
Deep Space Nine - 18.8 million
Voyager - 21.3 million
Enterprise - 12.5 million (and it aired on UPN for crying out loud)

As a Trek show its already by far the weakest, and indications from the studio is that it is far underperforming their expectations but they are going to continue. The only question is whether Netflix is going to be willing to shell out for Season 2. If they decline to pay through the nose for it (which seems to be more likely), then it may very well get cancelled after 2 seasons.

I'm surprised about the idea that "indications from the studio is that it is far under-performing their expectations"

The releases I hear from CBS is that DSC has correlated to record signups for week, Day and Month of CBS-AA. The numbers I heard from Canada suggest it was pulling equivalent viewership to a major Hockey game. I've heard lots of people flat out say it is failing and no-one is watching, and I've heard others say it is doing exceptionally well.

With the way streaming services (Netflix and such) do not have to release their numbers it seems none of us know for sure.

[JadedDM]

Spoiler: Planet Vulcan

Show

The short answer is continuity was not a high priority in TOS. Spock said there was no moon, but then this was later contradicted. I think the official 'cannon' answer that was eventually created is Vulcan has a sister planet. This sister planet is unofficially known as T'Kuht. I think T'Kuht does have a moon.

I think the whole Delta Vega thing was just Abrams having no sense of scale. Remember, in that movie, the star in the Hobus system went supernova, and the shockwave reached Romulus and Remus in a matter of hours, instead of centuries.

[SuperPanda]

Spoiler: Planet Vulcan

Show

The short answer is continuity was not a high priority in TOS. Spock said there was no moon, but then this was later contradicted. I think the official 'cannon' answer that was eventually created is Vulcan has a sister planet. This sister planet is unofficially known as T'Kuht. I think T'Kuht does have a moon.

I think the whole Delta Vega thing was just Abrams having no sense of scale. Remember, in that movie, the star in the Hobus system went supernova, and the shockwave reached Romulus and Remus in a matter of hours, instead of centuries.

Spoiler: forgive this very nerdy - nitpicky - moment re: gravity and orbits

Show

Wait - if Vulcan has a "sister planet" that close, they'd need to be orbiting a common baricenter similar to Pluto and Charon. In that case, wouldn't T'Kuth's moon orbit the baricenter, not T'Kuth or Vulcan?
I mean, Vulcan would still have no moon - but at least what we know of orbital mechanics would still be intact.

Just thinking here because Earth as seen form the moon doesn't take up anywhere near the amount of the sky that the larger body does in the background of this episode. The closet I've seen to that is how Jool looks from Laythe's surface in Kerbal Space Program. That would mean that either T'Kuth is really close to Vulcan or it is gi-normous.

And yes, I am fully aware of how silly I'm being. Then again, the afore mentioned "Hobus supernova destroying romulus" thing actually breaks my suspension of disbelief in Star Trek 2009 (while oddly Red Matter just makes my eyes roll) - and I generally like that film. The orbital mechanics of Vulcan and her solar system are extremely nit-picky, but I enjoy picking that kind of nit. I want Trek to feel like it can be happening in our universe, to me that's part of the whole point of Trek. Here's a possible future to strive towards.

[Clertar]

Spoiler: Spoiler-prediction

Show

I'm loving Lorca, but playing him so fast and furious can't really lead up to him regaining his sanity, toning him down and being the Discovery's Picard. Since good things are good in good measure, I agree that he will become irredeemable and we won't see him in season 2.

I've had a feeling for a while, and it keeps getting reinforced, that the series will close a thematic circle in the first season. Ep 1 started with an idealistic Michael leading a solo mutiny for naive reasons, and I think Season 1 will end with Michael being forced to step up and mutiny once more against Lorca, this time backed by the whole crew, for inevitable reasons --the safety of the Discovery (call back to Lorca blowing up his previous crew for their own safety) or, even better, the safety of a Klingon colony or vessel. Thus, the Federation's first mutineer will be a mutineer twice over. Season 2 will begin with Michael as the captain of the Discovery, or again as the first officer.

[Olinser]

S01e06

Spoiler: Nits must be picked

Show

Vulcan has no moon (TOS)- but it is close enough to Delta Vega to be seen in that world's sky (ST'09) and has been seen with other bodies in the sky before (TMP, DSC). On rematch: One of those bodies is way too big to be a moon. Is Vulcan the moon of a gas giant or are then on a Vulcan colony?

"Logic Extremist" - this nit is only about the name. The concept of Vulcan supremacists, isolationists, and traditionalists who dislike the new approach is not only appropriate but perfectly fits in the the chronology created by ENT and TNG. It doesn't fit Spock's representation of Vulcan society in TOS but then the Vulcans tend to project and ideal of their own people in all series. Still calling them "Vulcan Supremacists" or "Purists" was probably too on the nose for the reveal later in the episode.

The holodeck? - Only then I remembered that NX-01 had hologram target practice and I heard that NCC-1701 had a "Recreation Deck" which was a visual only holographic entertainment facility (TAS). Tyler couldn't feel getting shot either. So I was going to complain, but this actually makes a good experimental bridge between ENT's technlogy and TNG's. Nicely played.

Still jumping using Stamets - Of course they are, Lorca wouldn't give up his tech for this. Still, it makes me uncomfortable how much time goes between something clearly being a problem and someone doing something about it. Burnam notices Ripper's plight and waits 3 weeks to do anything (with many jumps in between). Lorca knows Stamets nearly died before and is still okay using him to power the jump (True Lorca did seem a little concerned and their relationship wasn't exactly friendly before - but still).

They seem to be pushing the "Ash is Klingon" angle hard

Lorca phaser stinger - I'm pretty sure I know where they are going with this but a combination of that stinger and the preview for next week left a bad taste in my mouth when it didn't have to. I absolutely loved this episode and I'm a bit sad the show didn't let it end with Sarek and Michael's stuff or Cornwall's capture. The Lorca stinger was good, and it was wonderfully in-character, but I just wish it was how we started an episode rather than finished one.

background technicolor nebula was distracting - real nebula are plenty gorgeous as they are.

The biggest Nit of all thought? That flippin' stupid face jewelry from Into Darkness comes back. That Klingon female at the end has so many chains and such on her face I was surprised she could see.

Spoiler: Time to Gush

Show

The running scene made DSC feel more real to me - though I wonder about the scale of the ship given the views we've seen... I can't help but feel the dimensions of the exterior in that gorgeous shot don't match the dimensions of the interior. Oh look, a nit snuck in. Now that is picked I can go back to gushing. The conversation felt real and created a wonderful bookend for their arc this episode.

Vulcan looked gorgeous and that ship looked like a boxier, more rugged, Vulcan ship from ENT. It looked almost like a vulcan ship incorporating Andorian tech/aesthetics to me. Felt Star Trek while being a nice updated design (much like the USS Shenzhou).

Computer Add Salsa - plus computer commentary was wonderful. Since "Food Synthesizer" in ENT/TOS was basically a less developed Replicator already I liked the cafeteria tech on display. The whole exchange about food between Mike and Tilly was hilarious and very relatable.

I really like Ash - he has enough manerisms which keep the Klingon angle alive while still feeling completely believable. They'll need to do a great job on the reveal to sell me that he was a Klingon Augment the whole time. Either way I'm loving the character and performance.

The Sarek storyline is exactly what we needed to put to bed the "bad fanfic" taste of Spock's famous secret sister.

Tiny Wrath of Khan era Alert affect on the main viewer's HUD. Wondeful little easter-egg.

Drugged out Stamets is hilarious, and oooh boooy how many drug references can they fit in that scene. Lorca's reaction are comedic gold throughout that scene and I really hope that develops into something.

I love the shuttle! Its like a marriage of the ENT shuttle pod, the TNG shuttle craft, and the DS9 runabout. If you replace the Galileo (TOS Shuttle) with this it shows a wonderful tech progression.


I'm pretty sure I know where they are going with Lorca and I'm loving it.

Spoiler: Prediction

Show

I don't think Lorca is a villain but I think he's going to come within spitting distance of being irredeemable. He's clearly broken and suffering some form of PTSD. Cornwall's kidnapping is a boon for him and he wants to leave her to die, but she is also his friend and I think he knows he's broken and is going to have to confront it. I want to see him struggle with this and finally decide to do the right thing despite the temptation not to. This is why I'm upset with the episode ending, I'm pretty sure he's going to mount a rescue, against orders,
sooner or later. This felt done to create controversy as people debate whether or not Lorca is a Mirror Universe baddie or trying to follow orders and get better.

Spoiler: Question

Show

Did anyone else notice Ash Tyler was wearing bronze in the mess hall but black in the shuttle - his uniform accents were black. This is the first time I've noticed Black accents since they were called out as rare in Episode 3.

I'm surprised about the idea that "indications from the studio is that it is far under-performing their expectations"

The releases I hear from CBS is that DSC has correlated to record signups for week, Day and Month of CBS-AA. The numbers I heard from Canada suggest it was pulling equivalent viewership to a major Hockey game. I've heard lots of people flat out say it is failing and no-one is watching, and I've heard others say it is doing exceptionally well.

With the way streaming services (Netflix and such) do not have to release their numbers it seems none of us know for sure.

Gotta learn to parse studio speak when they talk about movies and TV shows. You'll notice they say things like 'record sign ups', and don't comment on actual number of new and current subscribers. Also factor in the free trials for new signups counting before they actually pay anything to CBS.

'Record sign ups' simply means they had more sign ups than any previous point, which is hardly a shock given how poorly the service was doing previously. Given that you can subscribe for a free trial, and given that the entire point of Discovery was to increase subscriptions for CBS AA, if they DIDN'T have a record month it would have already been cancelled.

When a studio or network representative talks in generic buzz words and doesn't release actual numbers, you know they're bad and they know it. Because if the numbers were good they'd be yelling them at anybody that would listen.

[Cikomyr]

I am still very happy with the show so far. And very happy it has been renewed.

[Legato Endless]

Spoiler: Spoiler-prediction

Show

I'm loving Lorca, but playing him so fast and furious can't really lead up to him regaining his sanity, toning him down and being the Discovery's Picard. Since good things are good in good measure, I agree that he will become irredeemable and we won't see him in season 2.

I've had a feeling for a while, and it keeps getting reinforced, that the series will close a thematic circle in the first season. Ep 1 started with an idealistic Michael leading a solo mutiny for naive reasons, and I think Season 1 will end with Michael being forced to step up and mutiny once more against Lorca, this time backed by the whole crew, for inevitable reasons --the safety of the Discovery (call back to Lorca blowing up his previous crew for their own safety) or, even better, the safety of a Klingon colony or vessel. Thus, the Federation's first mutineer will be a mutineer twice over. Season 2 will begin with Michael as the captain of the Discovery, or again as the first officer.

Spoiler

Show

Michael as the first officer to a newly minted Captain Saru would dovetail well as a resolution, especially in light of their interactions in Episode 5.

[Cikomyr]

Spoiler

Show

Michael as the first officer to a newly minted Captain Saru would dovetail well as a resolution, especially in light of their interactions in Episode 5.

Spoiler

Show

No, I think Michael as Captain makes more sense. Saru needs to learn a lot more before the Big Chair. He has been XO for merely.. 7 months? Less?!

Michaels is ready for command.

[Chen]

Spoiler

Show

No, I think Michael as Captain makes more sense. Saru needs to learn a lot more before the Big Chair. He has been XO for merely.. 7 months? Less?!

Michaels is ready for command.

Spoiler

Show

You know, except the whole mutiny and physically assaulting her captain thing, along with a huge Klingon issue which drove the aforementioned mutiny

[Cikomyr]

Spoiler

Show

You know, except the whole mutiny and physically assaulting her captain thing, along with a huge Klingon issue which drove the aforementioned mutiny

Spoiler

Show

First of all, you dont know how events will transpire that might exonerate her.

Second, there is no actual Klingon issue. People feared that was the case, but thats it.

Finally, again, if she proves herself to Starfleet.. you never know. She is still more qualified than Saru; based on her long experience as a XO.

[JadedDM]

Spoiler: My own prediction, Re: Lorca

Show

My own prediction is that, in a huge twist of irony, Lorca is mutinied against by Saru. He realizes his captain has gone insane and is a danger to his crew and Starfleet principles and realizes there is no other choice. Thus, after giving Michael such a hard time for her decision to mutiny, he then turns to her for help in doing exactly the same thing. This also helps give him better understanding of her own decision to mutiny and help the two reconcile their differences better.

[Legato Endless]

Spoiler

Show

No, I think Michael as Captain makes more sense. Saru needs to learn a lot more before the Big Chair. He has been XO for merely.. 7 months? Less?!

Michaels is ready for command.

Spoiler: Structure

Show

Conventionally yes, Michael taking command isn't unlikely, as it gives us our protagonist captain. And her superior experience is certainly a factor. However, I think currently the storyline favors Saru. Saru has already had an episode focusing on the first step of taking command. Beyond the obvious foreshadowing potential, Saru becoming captain seems more central to his arc than Michael's, which is juggling a lot of other issues.

Now that he's gained the confidence from his initial taste of the seat, he can start seeking his own style beyond 'the Greats' he tried to merely ape in Episode 5. Combine that with the seasoning of potential regret for his actions with Ripper, and you've got a decent plotline. Granted, this assumes he continues to get character focus, which is admittedly questionable as Discovery is the most centrally focused series since TOS. But it might not be a coincidence that his only major role in Episode 6 is to suggest a frankly bold move to Lorca in reaction to the Admiral's capture.

Furthermore, Michael becoming Captain would require a relatively substantial shift in her core dynamic as the outsider loner action hero. I mean, she even gets a fight scene or three when she's performing telepathic therapy. While she's obviously growing more connected, I'm more skeptical the show runners will want to shed the hands on gritty heroine. Sure, one could cite Kirk here, but having Captain Michael go on every away mission and fly solo every threatening shuttle mission would wear a bit thin. Saru on the other hand can function as mission control with only a minor shift in his role.

Most importantly, I think this enriches their relationship better. After Saru expresses his envy and gets the telescope, the strange reversal of Saru as captain seems more fitting as an ironic twist to his disappointment of Michael blocking his opportunity to study under Georgiou. It's also a more profound statement of trust having Captain Saru decide to keep Burnham on as his right hand than deciding to serve under her.

While he's lacking in experience, that's not much of an issue in war, the one place where officers advance rapidly to fill gaps in the command structure. On the other hand, Michael's probably going to need to do a lot to shake off being Starfleet's first mutineer. An the admiralty aren't going to want to be deprived their scapegoat. Which opens up a nice scene for Saru to show they've fully mended their relationship by defending his choice to keep her as his XO, fully inheriting Lorca's mantle. Finally, having Michael again as an XO forms a nice bookend to the season opener.

[Cikomyr]

Spoiler: My own prediction, Re: Lorca

Show

My own prediction is that, in a huge twist of irony, Lorca is mutinied against by Saru. He realizes his captain has gone insane and is a danger to his crew and Starfleet principles and realizes there is no other choice. Thus, after giving Michael such a hard time for her decision to mutiny, he then turns to her for help in doing exactly the same thing. This also helps give him better understanding of her own decision to mutiny and help the two reconcile their differences better.

.....

Sold!

[Rogar Demonblud]

Spoiler: My own prediction, Re: Lorca

Show

My own prediction is that, in a huge twist of irony, Lorca is mutinied against by Saru. He realizes his captain has gone insane and is a danger to his crew and Starfleet principles and realizes there is no other choice. Thus, after giving Michael such a hard time for her decision to mutiny, he then turns to her for help in doing exactly the same thing. This also helps give him better understanding of her own decision to mutiny and help the two reconcile their differences better.

Spoiler: Nitpickery

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Technically, that's probably not mutiny. Removal for incapacity, more like. Are they getting the doctor involved?

[comicshorse]

Spoiler

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No, I think Michael as Captain makes more sense. Saru needs to learn a lot more before the Big Chair. He has been XO for merely.. 7 months? Less?!

Michaels is ready for command.

Spoiler

Show

Lets not forget Michael is still only not serving a life sentence because Lorca wanted her for his command. With Lorca gone the logical place for to go is right back to prison.
Now I don't think that is going to happen but its far to big a jump from life sentence to Captain

[Cikomyr]

Spoiler

Show

Lets not forget Michael is still only not serving a life sentence because Lorca wanted her for his command. With Lorca gone the logical place for to go is right back to prison.
Now I don't think that is going to happen but its far to big a jump from life sentence to Captain

Spoiler

Show

I agree with you there. But then again, who knows what might end up exonerating her?

By the way. Any bets on wheter or not we will be seeing the Enterprise at one point?

[JadedDM]

By the way. Any bets on wheter or not we will be seeing the Enterprise at one point?

I would be very surprised if it doesn't appear at some point. Maybe the season finale. Although who would they get to play Spock? Zachary Quinto seems the most obvious choice, but I wonder if they can afford him?

[Cikomyr]

I would be very surprised if it doesn't appear at some point. Maybe the season finale. Although who would they get to play Spock? Zachary Quinto seems the most obvious choice, but I wonder if they can afford him?

Nah.. no Spock. Just the Enterprise, with maybe a Pike voice over message.

[Olinser]

I would be very surprised if it doesn't appear at some point. Maybe the season finale. Although who would they get to play Spock? Zachary Quinto seems the most obvious choice, but I wonder if they can afford him?

If its just one episode it's much more likely they're going to do something like what they did with Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher in Star Wars, and CGI an appearance in.

Especially if they have Spock make an appearance via viewscreen rather than actual physically with the other actors it wouldn't be particularly expensive, almost certainly less expensive than Quinto for an episode.

[Yora]

Or just get another actor. I never understood why TV shows are so reluctant to do that. Nobody thought it was s problem when they couldn't get Alec McGuiness in young makeup to play Obi-Wan in Episode 1. Nobody complained that it was a different actor.

Game of Thrones does it and there was no mass hysteria or rioting.

[Chen]

Spoiler

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First of all, you dont know how events will transpire that might exonerate her.

Second, there is no actual Klingon issue. People feared that was the case, but thats it.

Finally, again, if she proves herself to Starfleet.. you never know. She is still more qualified than Saru; based on her long experience as a XO.

Spoiler

Show

I can accept some backroom dealings exonerating her, but otherwise it makes no real sense. We KNOW she actually did mutiny. Worf saving his wife instead of completing a mission is said to forever exclude him from having his own command. It would be ridiculous for Starfleet to legitimately allow her to command the ship. Now considering how off the books things are, I can see something in that regards being done to let her and would be ok with that.

[SuperPanda]

Enterprise:

By the way. Any bets on wheter or not we will be seeing the Enterprise at one point?

Honestly I see it as a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. I could see them going with a minor retcon that the Constitution class was a deep-space exploratory vessel and Starfleet didn't recall them all to fight the war because they hoped the spore-drive equiped crossfield class could handle things in their place (Would explain why most the ships in the Battle of the Binary Stars looked similar to the Miranda class - Heck they could even explain away some of TOS's seriously outdated technology by saying that the deep space exploratory ships needed to be far more rugged than those zipping through the Federation itself. (More analog backups, reliable viewscreens instead of holo-coms, physical bulkheads instead of structural integrity shields - Those are fine on something like the Shenzhou which is likely to have help hours away at worst, but on Enterprise help could be days or weeks away.

If they never show a Constitution class then it will feel even more like the show doesn't fit where its suppose to be continuity wise - those fans which are angry about that will be upset that it breaks canon because in TOS all ships were Constitutions and its unbelievable that we don't see any of them now. If they do show them, the Constitution will be updated to modern CGI designs (like the D7) and that will anger most people.

If they have to show it I want them to update the Constitution Refit design (Enterprise A) and use that. Roddenberry himself chose to swap the TV model for the Consitution-R while making a point that TMP Enterprise and TOS Enterprise were expicitly the same ship. DISCO seems to be running with the TMP aesthetic over the TOS aesthetic - I get why that bugs people but it honestly makes more sense in the context of all the other shows. TMP ships and interiors look like a mid point between ENT and TNG while TOS looks out of place. Still, doing that will anger people.

This is likely because I'm one of those heretics who recognize the Trek constantly updates its aesthetics to enhance it's storytelling and just pretends nothing changed (which Roddenberry himself wanted). Also to me it is more important that Trek feels like it could be our possible future than it feels like it is its own distinct reality.

If they use the Enterprise I'd be very very surprised if they didn't try to have Spock and Michael have a scene together.

Or just get another actor. I never understood why TV shows are so reluctant to do that. Nobody thought it was s problem when they couldn't get Alec McGuiness in young makeup to play Obi-Wan in Episode 1. Nobody complained that it was a different actor.

Game of Thrones does it and there was no mass hysteria or rioting.

There is really only 1 JJ-verse actor who I'd want to see reprise his TOS era role on DSC. I want JJ-Bones. That actor delivers his lines pitch perfect in every way, he is far and above my favorite part of the JJ movies and Bones wasn't even my favorite character on TOS (That goes to the miracle worker engineer whose last name is my first... because I found Trek when I was young and picked favorites for silly reasons and the impressions stuck). Everyone else I'd be fine with recasting, in-fact I think I'd prefer it. Quinto does a fantastic job, but he's very much his own Spock at this point and I'd like to see him keep playing that in a future film.


Now, turning to Lorca

Spoiler: Spoiler-prediction

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I'm loving Lorca, but playing him so fast and furious can't really lead up to him regaining his sanity, toning him down and being the Discovery's Picard. Since good things are good in good measure, I agree that he will become irredeemable and we won't see him in season 2.

I've had a feeling for a while, and it keeps getting reinforced, that the series will close a thematic circle in the first season. Ep 1 started with an idealistic Michael leading a solo mutiny for naive reasons, and I think Season 1 will end with Michael being forced to step up and mutiny once more against Lorca, this time backed by the whole crew, for inevitable reasons --the safety of the Discovery (call back to Lorca blowing up his previous crew for their own safety) or, even better, the safety of a Klingon colony or vessel. Thus, the Federation's first mutineer will be a mutineer twice over. Season 2 will begin with Michael as the captain of the Discovery, or again as the first officer.

Interesting.

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Sad to say I don't think Lorca will make it to Season 2 either - but that's because we're 1/3 of the way through Season 1 and we see him unraveling. I have a feeling he's going to make a "heroic" sacrifice play to try and pay back the debt he feels to the crew of the Buran before the season is out.

I've noticed that Lorca's very heavily themed around mirrors, light and darkness. When we first meet him he's staring out into the stars, but what we see is actually the stars reflected in his eyes. We now know that light is physically painful to him. In episode 5 he said that the pain helps him remember - meaning that the home he is looking for in the stars is painful - my guess is that home was the Buran.

At first I thought the stars-in-his-eyes visual was signalling that he'd be a villain. I thought this because T'Kuvma had a similar visual. Then I remembered that T'Kuvma's visual was actually a black hole (Darkness versus Light). T'Kuvma found strength, anger, and purpose in Darkness. Lorca finds pain, guilt, but also hope in Light. So I don't think Lorca is suppose to be an outright villain by the time the show is over.

This said, he lives in the darkness. He is comfortable in the darkness. He wants to return to the light and cannot. I see him being set up as a tragic figure. In Contrast Michael Burnam was burned (metaphorically) and fell into darkness and Lorca is intent on saving her. I think he'll admit before the end that this was a selfish act: He saved her to prove to himself that someone like her, like him, could be saved.

I him to help his many broken crew members, thinking that doing so will allow him to finally get past his guilt - try to make his sacrifice play - only to be saved by them. That is the ending that I want. I want his crew to be what saves him from himself (a mutiny like arc leading to could be awesome).

I predict that the next episode is going to have him unravel a bit further - he'll show small signs that he's massively conflicted about not running off the rescue the Admiral. I know alot of us (myself included) saw that scene and thought it was a win-win-win for Lorca. He rescues her and puts her in his debt - win. He follows orders and shows he has changed, causing her to work with him - win. She gets killed, now no one knows how broken he is and he keeps his ship - win.

I watched it again, and when I saw his reflection at the end I saw loose-loose-loose. Rescue her by disobeying orders - Loose. "Have you learned nothing?" Wait for orders and then rescue her "Isn't it convinent you chose to follow protocol now?" - Loose. She gets killed - Loose... she is still his friend.

I think we will also see that play out with Stamets because he looked concerned at how... groovy... Stamets was being in Episode 6.

I predict: Episode 7 is Stamets focused with Mudd. Lorca will be shown worried about Stamets and the spore-drive. In the stinger Starfleet orders him not to rescue the Admiral.
Episode 8 he disobeys - somehow using Mudd's help (I'm not sure how - but Mudd has knowledge of Klingon space and I would totally watch Ash, Burnam, and Mudd on a rescue mission... The storyline takes a while to resolve but by the end of Episode 9 The Admiral relieves Lorca of command in front of his bridge crew - taking command herself.(mid season cliffhanger)

Burnam:

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I can accept some backroom dealings exonerating her, but otherwise it makes no real sense. We KNOW she actually did mutiny. Worf saving his wife instead of completing a mission is said to forever exclude him from having his own command. It would be ridiculous for Starfleet to legitimately allow her to command the ship. Now considering how off the books things are, I can see something in that regards being done to let her and would be ok with that.

Two thoughts:
First

Janeway: It was a very different time, Mister Kim. Captain Sulu, Captain Kirk, Doctor McCoy. They all belonged to a different breed of Starfleet officers. Imagine the era they lived in [...] Space must have seemed a whole lot bigger back then. It's not surprising they had to bend the rules a little. They were a little slower to invoke the Prime Directive, and a little quicker to pull their phasers. Of course, the whole bunch of them would be booted out of Starfleet today. But I have to admit: I would have loved to ride shotgun at least once with a group of officers like that.

Second: Star Trek IV - If you win big enough it cancels out an equally big screw-up.

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If Burnam's actions by the end of season 1 result in bringing about a cease-fire, or something similarly amazing I could see her getting exonerated. I agree that it is a better arc for her to be Saru's first officer than the other way around though.

[Chen]

Second: Star Trek IV - If you win big enough it cancels out an equally big screw-up.

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If Burnam's actions by the end of season 1 result in bringing about a cease-fire, or something similarly amazing I could see her getting exonerated. I agree that it is a better arc for her to be Saru's first officer than the other way around though.

Well yeah I mean Kirk got his ship back too in the latest movie for pretty much no good reason too. Still its inconsistent. Frankly keeping Michael NOT a command officer would be a good change of pace from the usual way Star Trek tends to go.