The Elder Scrolls XIII: Born Under a Certain Sign

[Triaxx]

Calm is fun, but I prefer to use Fury. With Ordinator's perks, they basically become uncapped, and watching an entire enemy force fight it out is actually pretty hilarious. Then, when it's just one guy left, Bound Sword and Ghostwalk into a stupid powerful sneak attack that teleports you back out of sight. Rinse and repeat. Oh, I'm sorry, was this encounter supposed to be tough?

Add the fact that you can auto-cast muffle, a flesh spell and soul cloak at the start of a fight, and you can watch your illusion, alteration, and conjuration fly upwards.

[Balmas]

People did some digging in the game files, and we now have a list of the upcoming content from the Creation Club. No prices yet, just a list of the .esl file names.

ccBGSSSE002-ExoticArrows.esl
ccBGSSSE003-Zombies.esl
ccBGSSSE004-RuinsEdge.esl
ccBGSSSE006-StendarsHammer.esl
ccBGSSSE007-Chrysamere.esl
ccBGSSSE010-PetDwarvenArmoredMudcrab.esl
ccBGSSSE014-SpellPack01.esl
ccBGSSSE019-StaffofSheogorath.esl
ccMTYSSE001-KnightsoftheNine.esl
ccQDRSSE001-SurvivalMode.esl

So, we have Survival Mode, and five weapons from old games. I will admit to being curious about what Zombies and the Spell pack holds.

[Caelestion]

They're all going to be ridiculously overpriced, of course.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

They're all going to be ridiculously overpriced, of course.

If the new game mode alone costs eight dollars, I have to agree.

Is it too much to hope this microtransaction fad passes before ESVI comes out???

[Spore]

Is it too much to hope this microtransaction fad passes before ESVI comes out???

If people keep paying for TES 5, why should they?

[Caelestion]

I did log into the beta version of SSE to claim the Survival mode CC, but why not? The chances of me actually playing it are slim, but I'm all in for free stuff.

[Rynjin]

It might be free, but that's its only real selling point. There are already Survival mods for Skyrim. As with everything else in the CC, they're repackaging stale old stuff in a shiny new package and asking you to shell out money for the privilege. The only difference is this one is "Free for a limited time only!" with the purchase of downloading an update that's probably going to bork all your existing mods.

It's like accepting a free hamburger with the knowledge that all the food you bought from the grocery store last week is going to expire on receipt. It's not really worth it.

[Caelestion]

I don't actually have any ongoing SSE games, so that's not an issue, but I quite agree with you. From what I've seen, it appears to be very bare-bones stuff, especially as I'm long used to Frostfall's elegant coloured bars and the like. I was more interested in claiming it for posterity than in any actual hope of playing it.

[Balmas]

I've decided to bite the bullet and give Survival Mode a try. Normally, I'd be strenuously opposed to pretty much anything attached to the Creation Club name. This is especially true when you consider the quality of the content that Creation Club has offered thus far. However, I felt that it wouldn't be fair to dismiss an entire gamemode out of hand without investing some personal time with it. With that in mind, I renamed my Special Edition folder, and told Steam to download the beta version of Skyrim: Special Edition.

Spoiler: Survival Mode experience, about two hours in

Show

Much like Hardcore mode in New Vegas, Survival Mode doesn't actually start automatically or immediately. Instead, when you first take your steps out of the cave beneath Helgen, you get a little popup describing what it is, and asking whether you want to opt in or out. I cheerfully tapped at my keyboard, frowned, remembered that Vanilla Skyrim doesn't have Better Message-Box Controls, and clicked yes.

Immediately, my speed dropped to a crawl. When the press release says that you get much less carryweight by default, they're not kidding. You get 150 to start with, half of the 300 you normally start with. After dropping nearly all the crap I was carrying--and ruing my decision to play a heavily armored zweihänder--Masochist Man set out, grabbing flowers and butterflies like a man possessed. I beelined straight for the Warrior stone, ignoring petty things like terrain, slapped it triumphantly, and moved towards Riverwood with all the confidence of a man who doesn't believe in death.

Then I met the first wolf, took the first power attack into the dog's skull, and the game decided I'd not slept in too long a time and would therefore move and swing my sword thirty percent more slowly. One wolf later, I had renewed urgency pushing me towards Hod and Gerdur's hut.

A nap was enough to get rid of the debuff, fortunately, so I was quickly able to sell off some remaining armor to the smith and steal the alchemy table for long enough to turn blue flowers and wheat into health potions. Then I was off up the mountain to Bleak Falls Barrow.

As soon as I passed the snowline, I got a notification telling me that the air here was brisk, and a snowflake icon popped into existence to the left of my compass. As the cold got worse, my heatlh bar showed up with small black boxes encroaching into the edge. I'm not sure how the math works out, but it felt like the decrease was percentage-based, rather than a set number--IE, being cold would lose me ten percent of my maximum health, which cut proportionately into how much health I currently had. After the figtht with those three bandits, that came down to not much.

As I went through the process of fighting bandits and draugr in the barrow, I was struck by just how quickly my health seemed to be regenerating; after each fight, it would only be a few seconds before my health bar disappeared again. Trained by five years oif Skyrim playing to associate an invisible health bar with a full health bar, I didn't realize that true to the press release, you don't regenerate health naturally. Instead, Bethesda just decided to hide the health bar after every fight; presumably, players would rather not know how much health they have until combat starts so they can find out it's too little, too late.

The rest of the barrow passed relatively uneventfully, though I note that I ran out of potions about halfway through due to needing to replenish my health manually after each fight. My experience found me in a strange place where I'd use potions exlusively during combat for their quick bursts of healing, and then restoration was only used out of combat, when I could use regenerating magicka for topping up my health.

WIth that done, it was just a matter of heading back to town for a night's rest, and so I could finally spend my level-ups on perks and health. That much, at least, was relatively simple and familiar.

And with that nap in Gerdur's hut, my playtest time ran out and I had to go to work.

Thus far, Survival mode strikes me as a less-polished combination of Frostfall and Fallout 4's survival mode. It has all the hallmark's of Chesko's usual quality work, but some studio exec has stuck his fingers in and decided that when people say they want immersive survival, what they want is brutally punishing and unforgiving gameplay. It's fine if you agree with every design decision made for this mod, but I can already see that a mod will be quickly made to allow players to configure their Survival mode.

I'm especially displeased with how the game handles the effects of exposure and sleep deprivation. With Frostfall, you'd get notifications about the quality of the environment around you, and then you'd see exposure directly affecting your character; you'd start to slow down, your fingers would ice over, you'd start to go blind as sleet coated your eyes, and eventually you'd faint from hypothermia or whatnot. With Realistic Needs and Diseases, you'd feel the effects of the disease, you'd hear your stomach gurgling, and going without sleep for too long would mean occasionally falling over in a dizzy spell. It's all donme with a focus on immersion. Survival mode, on the other hand, seems to be more about making life more difficult. Going without food means your stamina bar shows up with a black square letting you know that you're not at peak efficiency. Getting too cold means you lose health, and your health bar is stuck on the screen. Don't sleep, and you lose magicka, again with the magicka bar getting lodged in the bottom of your screen. These effects odn't really make sense; they're jammed in as consequences, but their implementation means that instead of being immersed into a world where you need to take care of your body, you're jarred out by constant reminders that you're playing a video game.

That really does seem to be the crux of it. Survival Mode adds survival elements to make the game more difficult, instead of to make it immersive. The difference in design philosophy can really be felt.

Tomorrow, I'll try to see how diseases affect your character, and maybe play around with console commands to see the effect of different armors.

[Caelestion]

Who thought it was a sensible idea not to associate lack of sleep with Stamina? Being hungry/thirsty (apparently, they're interchangeable) would be better off affecting health and/or magicka. All I can assume is that as soon as they halted their years of calling the green bar "Fatigue" (which I usually modded to be named "Stamina" anyway), Bethesda promptly forgot that it had ever been fatigue in the first place.

[Ogremindes]

---

Frostfall Lighthouse, Sun's Dawn 25
When I checked my maps, I realised that the Stormcloak camp was at the far end of the hold, much closer to Whiterun than Glenmoril. So I returned to Jorrvaskr. I found that in my absence the Silver Hand had attacked Jorrvaskr itself! Most died in the attempt, but they succeeded in stealing the shards of the axe and in murdering Kodlak. Vilkas and I left at once on their trail.

Driftshade Refuge is where they retreated to. They thought it was secret, but Aela and I had learned of it from our prior efforts. They thought their silvered weapons would save them, but against our fury they may as well have been wielding some milksop's table settings. In the end the only living things left in the Silver Hand's fastness were werewolves.

We found the shards of Wuuthrad here, they had collected almost all the other pieces themselves. With dusk long past we made our camp in the abandoned lighthouse.

Maybe Kodlak was right, and Aela and I pushed the Silver Hand too far.

No, they were already attacking the Companions, they must have seen the chaos in Whiterun as an opportunity to strike. Either way, I feel somewhat responsible for him dying before he could cure himself.

---

---

Jorrvaskr, Sun's Dawn 26
It was shortly before dawn when we arrived back at Whiterun. The others were waiting for us, having already built a pyre upon the Skyforge. Eorlund requested the shards of Wuuthrad, to prepare them for display. He also asked for the final piece, that Kodlak had kept with him in his quaters. I gave them to him, and met with The Circle in the Underforge.

There was the shouting and recriminations that come with grief, but when Erolund arrived with the re-forged axe, what must be done next became clear. We will take Wuuthrad to Ysgramor's Tomb, to open the way to a place were the spirits of the Harbingers dwell. There we will cleanse Kodlak's spirit, and grant his wish for Sovengarde.

---

---

The Frozen Hearth, Sun's Dawn 28

Ysgramor's Tomb is on an island near Winterhold. Thankfully, ice floes had formed to allow it to be reached on foot. I was not looking forward to another dip in the freezing ocean. And so, we assembled at the entrance of the tomb. I opened the way by placing Wuuthrad in the hands of the statue of Ysgramor there.

Aside from some spiders, the tomb was guarded by the spectres of Companions of old. Their skills were formidable, but our strength was greater. Nevertheless, the courage of the brothers faltered. Ironically, the ones that feel Lycanthropy a blessing would be the ones to cure Kodlak.

At the central chamber of the tomb, I found the spectre of Kodlak. Apparently all the Harbingers past could be found here, but I could only percieve the one I knew. The ritual to cure Kodlak was simple: By burning the head of a Glenmoril Witch in the fire here, Kodlak could force the beast spirit from himself. Defeat the beast and the deed would be done. I focused my strength into my blade, and with a single overhead chop it was over.

Kodlak thanked me, and before he left, told me to lead the Companions. As I left, I let the brothers know that Kodlak was cured, but didn't mention the last part. Aela will discuss it with them, I'm sure.

---

I'm kinda torn on my difficulty setting. The damage from Ancient Dragons is borderline unmanageable, but if I survive the initial onslaught I can cut them to ribbons in short order. And I never remember to use my Evasive Leap. If I can actually use all my tools it could be a good deal easier.

Sound like Survival Mode isn't going to displace Frostfall et al anytime. But if those UI elements can be used by mods in the future it might be worth having anyway.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

If people keep paying for TES 5, why should they?

The problem with this is, if they keep this up eventually they're going to decide that the normal mods are competing too successfully with the paid mods, and start cutting back on what's allowed in a non-paid mod. Maybe it'll be size restrictions, or maybe they'll forbid mods that use any assets not already in the game. But it will come.

And then they'll have successfully shot themselves in the foot, because the modding community is what keeps these games going way past the sell-by date.

[Triaxx]

I suspect it's already happening with F4 to an extent. PS4's getting mods, which is good even if they have to pay for them. But at the same time, F4 modding hasn't really taken off the way NV or even F3 modding did and certainly not the way Skyrim exploded pre-CK.

You'd think they'd have learned to get the GECK out fast, either simultaneous with the launch or within a couple months, not six later.

Dragon's in my opinion should be very deadly, and with lots of armor but not a lot of health. So I tweak Deadly Dragons to give them lots of armor, but not a lot of bonus health.

[Mando Knight]

The problem with this is, if they keep this up eventually they're going to decide that the normal mods are competing too successfully with the paid mods, and start cutting back on what's allowed in a non-paid mod. Maybe it'll be size restrictions, or maybe they'll forbid mods that use any assets not already in the game. But it will come.

And then they'll have successfully shot themselves in the foot, because the modding community is what keeps these games going way past the sell-by date.

Size restrictions and no in-game assets were Sony's doing regarding mods on PS4, not Bethesda's, and Bethesda isn't trying to kill their golden goose, just make it produce a little more.

I suspect it's already happening with F4 to an extent. PS4's getting mods, which is good even if they have to pay for them. But at the same time, F4 modding hasn't really taken off the way NV or even F3 modding did and certainly not the way Skyrim exploded pre-CK.

You'd think they'd have learned to get the GECK out fast, either simultaneous with the launch or within a couple months, not six later.

Going by the Nexus's stats, Fallout 4 already has more mods uploaded than NV or 3 and is the second-most popular game for mod users (Oblivion has more mod files than Fallout 4, but fewer mod downloads). OG Skyrim is a thing unto itself, with more mod uploads on the Nexus than Oblivion and Fallout 4 combined, and more mod downloads than Oblivion and all three 3D Fallouts put together.

[factotum]

Survival Mode adds survival elements to make the game more difficult, instead of to make it immersive.

That's exactly why I don't like Survival Mode in Fallout 4. Some aspects of it I find cool--no fast travel and having to sleep at a bed to save the game are both additions I would like to play with. Unfortunately, it also adds the requirement to eat and sleep, aka pointless busywork that boils down to "click this button every few minutes or you're dead". It sounds like this Survival Mode is doing the same sort of thing.

[Triaxx]

It never felt like that to me, but then again I don't recall the last time played NV without Hardcore Mode on. So F4's Survival mode feels like being in the kiddie pool.

I am really surprised at those mod numbers (Not Skyrim's though). Fallout 4 has some great mods but I don't see the huge must haves like SkyUI, or Project Nevada. But then again maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.

[veti]

That's exactly why I don't like Survival Mode in Fallout 4. Some aspects of it I find cool--no fast travel and having to sleep at a bed to save the game are both additions I would like to play with. Unfortunately, it also adds the requirement to eat and sleep, aka pointless busywork that boils down to "click this button every few minutes or you're dead".

I felt that way about 'iNeed' in Skyrim. It was bearable for a while, but when I discovered that I had a permanent (effectively) boost of +100 to all three primary stats, I scrapped it without a qualm. It was interesting, but chiefly as an exercise in demonstrating why this feature wasn't in the base game to start with - because it's actually quite hard to do well.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Size restrictions and no in-game assets were Sony's doing regarding mods on PS4, not Bethesda's, and Bethesda isn't trying to kill their golden goose, just make it produce a little more.

Give it time.

[Caelestion]

Bethesda would have to be monumentally stupid to abandon free modding, so it's really not worth our time discussing it. They're doing plenty of silly things right now, without us needing to speculate about possible future inanities.

[Ogremindes]

---

Jorrvaskr, First Seed 2
My journey back to Whiterun was slow, interrupted twice by dragon attacks. The appearance of a single dragon was remarkable in itself. But now I have seen four in Tamriel, and I've heard accounts coming from across the land of more.

Farkas has heard of one partiular sighting, roosting above Northwind Mine. We'll go investigate shortly, taking the carriage to Riften should be enough time to rest.

---

---

Jorrvaskr, First Seed 3
Farkas' information was good, and we found one of the monsters on the peak above the mine. I'm finding I'm alot more confident facing dragons than I was back at Windhelm, and having a capable fighter fighting alongside me was a great help. I should see to bringing Aela with me when I go hunting, I think her bow would be of more assistance than another sword.

---

---

Solstheim, First Seed 4
This morning Aela told me of the "Totems of Hercine", and how they could expand the powers of a werewolf. Skjor had been researching them, and now Aela could pinpoint one of them to a cave in Solstheim. Curious I hadn't seen it, as I had been to the same cave when working for the Dawnguard. We decided to make a brief visit to the island, and while daylight would soon fade after our arrival, we pressed on. Knowing the way, we reached the cave quickly. We did discover a destroyed campsite along the way, attacked by those blue skinned goblins, but our trip was uneventful beyond that.

The cave was once again home to a mess of giant insects, we cleared them out within an hour. The totem was right where Aela said it would be. We made camp in the cave, and intend to head back to Jorrvaskr with a haste. I wish to explore the island further, but I have much to do in Skyrim.

---

---

Jorrvaskr, First Seed 5
As we made our way back to Raven Rock, I was almost overcome by a dizzy spell. It passed by the time we reached town, but... this island just doesn't seem to agree with me. There was no further incident as we travelled to Whiterun, where we placed the totem upon a pedestal in the Underforge. As we did, I felt a surge of energy from the totem. Maybe next time I hunt I'll discover what the totem has done for me. I've been travelling a lot in recent days, and it's getting to me. I'm going to turn in early and get... well, another restless night's sleep. But it'll be a long restless night's sleep.

---

[Triaxx]

I noticed a mass Exodus from iNeed to realistic needs and diseases, mostly because RND seems a bit more thoughtfully balanced.

[Caelestion]

iNeed has cool icons and all, but you seem to eat an awful lot using iNeed, which was not something I noticed in RND. Perseid's original also tied in well to her inns mod.

[Balmas]

Spoiler: Survival Mode impressions, Day 2

Show

After playing around in Skyrim's test chamber for a while, I'm pretty sure of two things. First, this is indeed Chesko's work; all of the numbers for warmth work out to the same maximum as you'd have in Frostfall. Second, you can get everything that Survival Mode offers by using a combination of free mods, with the added bonus of being able to turn off and adjust things that you don't like.

Lemme say, first of all, that the warmth calculations are really weird in Survival Mode. Being wet affects it, but you're not told when you're wet and when you're dry. The press release says that different armors have different warmth rating, and that's true, but it's done in such a schizophrenic fashion that it's hard to predict what a given armor will give you. You get the maximum warmth rating as soon as you get steel armor, which is essentially a breastplate and fur T-shirt, but once you hit Ebony that abruptly halves itself. The values all feel eyeballed and vague.

The big nail in the coffin for Survival mode, I think, is that free mods do it better while also being configurable. Here, again, we see the element of Survival being about difficulty while other mods are about immersion. You don't want to have to eat, drink or sleep? Don't use iNeed or RND. You do want it, but want it less? Configure the mod to use less. You can change the settings to your own preference, either by configuration or by uninstalling a mod. You want a lower carry weight? Install a mod. RND covers more punishing diseases. Frostfall makes you need to care about the weather, with the added benefit of being able to set up camp for the night instead of having to stay within walking distance of a city. Everything you get with Survival mode, you can get with something like eight plugins, tops.

I've done my due diligence, I think. I've sunk something like four hours into playtesting, and found it wanting.

Bethesda is, once again, trying to charge us DLC prices for something that you can get for free with mods. This is especially egregious, since you're gonna have to shell out 14ish dollars to get 800 credits, since the next tier down won't give you enough credits. It's just not worth it.

[Triaxx]

I'm definitely thinking the idea is to get this to PS4 players, and then let modders tweak it from there. It's kind of a clever workaround. Modders can't add new stuff, but nothing says they can't tweak Creation Club Content. For the rest of us it's pointless, but for those stuck on a PS4? Not so much.

[Caelestion]

The idea is to gouge the PS4 players, you mean. They certainly don't care what the modders are up to - if they did, they wouldn't keep mucking around with the exe and breaking F4SE each time.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Spoiler: Survival Mode impressions, Day 2

Show

After playing around in Skyrim's test chamber for a while, I'm pretty sure of two things. First, this is indeed Chesko's work; all of the numbers for warmth work out to the same maximum as you'd have in Frostfall. Second, you can get everything that Survival Mode offers by using a combination of free mods, with the added bonus of being able to turn off and adjust things that you don't like.

Lemme say, first of all, that the warmth calculations are really weird in Survival Mode. Being wet affects it, but you're not told when you're wet and when you're dry. The press release says that different armors have different warmth rating, and that's true, but it's done in such a schizophrenic fashion that it's hard to predict what a given armor will give you. You get the maximum warmth rating as soon as you get steel armor, which is essentially a breastplate and fur T-shirt, but once you hit Ebony that abruptly halves itself. The values all feel eyeballed and vague.

The big nail in the coffin for Survival mode, I think, is that free mods do it better while also being configurable. Here, again, we see the element of Survival being about difficulty while other mods are about immersion. You don't want to have to eat, drink or sleep? Don't use iNeed or RND. You do want it, but want it less? Configure the mod to use less. You can change the settings to your own preference, either by configuration or by uninstalling a mod. You want a lower carry weight? Install a mod. RND covers more punishing diseases. Frostfall makes you need to care about the weather, with the added benefit of being able to set up camp for the night instead of having to stay within walking distance of a city. Everything you get with Survival mode, you can get with something like eight plugins, tops.

I've done my due diligence, I think. I've sunk something like four hours into playtesting, and found it wanting.

Bethesda is, once again, trying to charge us DLC prices for something that you can get for free with mods. This is especially egregious, since you're gonna have to shell out 14ish dollars to get 800 credits, since the next tier down won't give you enough credits. It's just not worth it.

Thank you Balmas! Much appreciated. I hadn't realized they were pulling the same tactics with the paid mods as items in the ESO Crown Store (by which I mean they're using a digital currency - though if they start putting the paid mods into a Crown Crate equivalent too that would not surprise me at this point). Digital currency makes me even less likely to touch it.

The idea is to gouge the PS4 players, you mean. They certainly don't care what the modders are up to - if they did, they wouldn't keep mucking around with the exe and breaking F4SE each time.

There's nothing saying they can't do both unfortunately.

[NEO|Phyte]

Given the hoops Sony/Microsoft make you jump through to add content to console games, is it really that terrible a crime to want something to offset the man hours needed for said hoopjumping?

[Caelestion]

If you're on PS4, (a) sorry and (b) I could see the appeal, at least up until you check the prices, which are absolutely farcical. A new sword or gun would have to walk on water and be useful for literally hours of play by itself to make me buy any of those pitiful single offerings on the CC, no matter how nice they might look.

[Triaxx]

Yes, but you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who has had free mods forever. PS4 users might not know what they've getting is a bad deal with Survival mode.

As for the other, just like horse armor, some people will see through it. Other people will buy it just because they don't have a computer to run it.

I understand the reasoning behind the digital currency, it means they don't have to spend extra cash on security for your credit cards. So if they get hacked, all anyonegets are valueless credits and not your credit info.

[Rynjin]

But you need your credit card to pay for the credits. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it's supposed to be more secure?