Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

[Jay R]

I've heard that in some rural places in the south,"y'all" or "you all" can be singular or plural. "All y'all" is the collective.

Here in Texas, "you all" doesn't exist. "You" is singular", but "y'all" is used for both the plural and when number is indeterminate. "Why don't you come on over tonight. Bring Mary if she can make it. Y'all can show up about seven." That makes people think it can be the singular.

But there's one more distinction to be made:

"Why don't you come on over tonight," is an invitation issued to an individual.
"Why don't y'all come on over tonight," is an invitation to the couple or the family of the person being addressed.
"In fact, why don't all y'all come over" extends the invitation to the entire group listening.

[2D8HP]

Warning!

Spoiler: a full bore "get off my lawn" middle-aged rant coming on!

Show

Why have some young adults decided to use an acronym with "Justice" in it as a slur?

...with the blessing of the SJWs, obviously..

I first come across the initials "SJW" in this Forum, and my having to "Google" the meaning only to find out that it stands for "Social Justice Warrior", and that it's a slur is one of the reasons I often no-longer "Google" many of the unfamiliar words and phrases that I see in this Forum, because of how angry finding that out has made me.

As I posted on the first thread I saw the initials "SJW" on, my grandparents very much were warriors for social justice, and I'm grateful that they and so many of that generation struggled to make a better world.

No joke.

Please find another way than "SJW" to convey whatever it is you're trying to communicate.

I'll go further, and say that I'm extremely disappointed as well as angry that a generation has decided to make up a slur of "Justice".
What's next insulting people by calling them medics and lifesavers?

"SJWs" now...
...just listen for a few minutes about how colleges should have days where.

Okay, based on the activities of some overzealous adolescents in sheltered isolated enclaves, I will now (barely) forgive how "SJW" is often used if the word "some" and "collegiate" are used first and quotation marks are put all around!
Otherwise it still ticks me off.

[Jormengand]

Why have some young adults decided to use an acronym with "Justice" in it as a slur?

Because some people are anti-justice.

[Yuki Akuma]

It's not the "justice" part that's the insult - it's the "warrior". The insult is accusing people of inflating their own impact on the world when what they're doing really doesn't have any importance and is just wasting everyone's time.

Of course, people now apply it to people who are doing good things because they believe that doing good things is pointless (or that the things they're doing somehow aren't good), but, eh.

It's similar to using "white knight" as an insult.

[Jormengand]

It's not the "justice" part that's the insult - it's the "warrior".

"Man, why didn't any of you become social justice rogues or social justice magi?"

[Vinyadan]

Just be happy it isn't social justice monk or social justice bard...

Or SOCIAL JUSTICE TRUENAMER!

[Jormengand]

social justice bard

The true keyboard warriors.

Or SOCIAL JUSTICE TRUENAMER!

The true word warriors.

[Bohandas]

Why not just use the liberal/conservative neutral term "propagandist"

[Jormengand]

Why not just use the liberal/conservative neutral term "propagandist"

Usually becuse the people using the term aren't neutral.

[2D8HP]

"Man, why didn't any of you become social justice rogues or social justice magi?"

Just be happy it isn't social justice monk or social justice bard...

The true keyboard warriors.

.

SOCIAL JUSTICE TRUENAMER!

The true word warriors!

Cracks me up.

Thanks.

[Bohandas]

person of sanctimony :D

[Peelee]

I've heard that in some rural places in the south,"y'all" or "you all" can be singular or plural. "All y'all" is the collective.

Here in Texas, "you all" doesn't exist. "You" is singular", but "y'all" is used for both the plural and when number is indeterminate. "Why don't you come on over tonight. Bring Mary if she can make it. Y'all can show up about seven." That makes people think it can be the singular.

But there's one more distinction to be made:

"Why don't you come on over tonight," is an invitation issued to an individual.
"Why don't y'all come on over tonight," is an invitation to the couple or the family of the person being addressed.
"In fact, why don't all y'all come over" extends the invitation to the entire group listening.

Yeah, I've always used it as both singular or plural. I've had people around here question it when I did it, though, so I can't attest to how standard/nonstandard it is.

Ain't nobody says "you all" except people from the north trying to sound like people from the south, and doing a bad job of it.

[Fiery Diamond]

Chiming in on the singular y'all: Has anyone seen the Virginia Lottery commercial from a few years back with the lottery fairy going to a woman and asking about "y'all?" I'm having trouble finding it online, but it goes something like this:

LF: So what do you say when you're talking to one person?
W: Y'all.
LF: What if it's more than one person?
W: Still y'all.
LF: What if it's a whole bunch of people?
W: Then it's all y'all.

[thorgrim29]

Huh, I was thought that thou was the honorific form of second person singular in english, but it seems y'all are right. And my teachers were anglophones too, I blame Shakespeare. But that actually makes a ton more sense now that I stop to think about it, since you is both singular and plural. IMO having a distinction between respectful second person singular and casual is not really worth it, all you end up with is a ton of confusion regarding when it is proper to use which, sort of like when you start calling someone by their first name only much more awkward to avoid.

Still it's true that not having a distinct second person singular and plural pronoun is a big problem with English, not sure what could be done about it though.

[Lissou]

Edit #2: I am not sure if I got the question right, what I mean is that you can say vous in French to a single person as a form of respect. This is what the English probably imitated.

Ah, yes, I understand what you mean now. They took the "using plural you to address single people sometimes" and turned it into "all the time". Indeed an overkill :)

Huh, I was thought that thou was the honorific form of second person singular in english

Nope, "you" was the honorific form, "thou" was the more casual form. We think of it as an honorific nowadays because it's old-fashioned. I too used to think it was the other way around until someone corrected me.

[Bohandas]

I think "ye" was the plural form

[Coidzor]

Why not just use the liberal/conservative neutral term "propagandist"

It's less propaganda and more just generally people being ***** to one another online.

Stuff like when people who aren't straight white kids cyberbully other kids and tell them to kill themselves.

[veti]

Please find another way than "SJW" to convey whatever it is you're trying to communicate.

"SJW" has become shorthand for "someone I disapprove of, and you should disapprove of too because you're a right-thinking person like me aren't you?" It's become a politically loaded term that's more to do with identifying one's own tribe, than taking pot-shots at the enemy (although it's handy for that too).

There are a few terms like that out there. "MSM", that's another one ("mainstream media", meaning "those media outlets that make some effort to check facts, rather than just uncritically spreading propaganda for one faction"). As a rule of thumb, when you see these terms start to be used on any forum, you can stop reading the thread and miss nothing further of value. Words like "multinationals", anything described as a "complex" or "big [insert industry segment here]" generally work the same way: they're more about signalling to political friends than actually conveying meaning.

This isn't a new phenomenon, but the internet has made it much more obvious - and annoying - than it ever was before.

Nope, "you" was the honorific form, "thou" was the more casual form. We think of it as an honorific nowadays because it's old-fashioned. I too used to think it was the other way around until someone corrected me.

"Casual" isn't quite right. After all, think about the context in which people mostly encounter it today (outside of Shakespeare): the King James Bible routinely uses "thou" to address God. (Which is probably where this misapprehension comes from.)

I think "intimate" would be a better word.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

"Casual" isn't quite right. After all, think about the context in which people mostly encounter it today (outside of Shakespeare): the King James Bible routinely uses "thou" to address God. (Which is probably where this misapprehension comes from.)

Again, it's probably the French influence. If I'm remembering correctly (Lissou, feel free to step in, of course), "tu" (the french "thou") is used to casually address friends & family... and God. There are several ways I could explain the reason for this, but they all involve too much theology to be board-appropriate.

GW

[Vinyadan]

I think that the explanation can be purely textual: the Gospel is written in Greek, ancient Greek doesn't have forms of respect like vous instead of tu, instead always using tu (sy) as singular, and close translation of the Lord's Prayer translates sy with tu.

Anyway, yes, it is complicated to have forms like these, and it can be awkward when you are becoming intimate with someone to change from a form to the other. Italian once had three different forms, those must have been fun times.

[Lissou]

I think "ye" was the plural form

No, that's just "the". The old letter for "th" looks kind of like a Y and so people have been using a Y instead when they want to sound old-fashioned.

Again, it's probably the French influence. If I'm remembering correctly (Lissou, feel free to step in, of course), "tu" (the french "thou") is used to casually address friends & family... and God. There are several ways I could explain the reason for this, but they all involve too much theology to be board-appropriate.

GW

Yes, you use the informal for of "you" to talk to God (and vice-versa). One way to explain that is that the "polite" you (the plural you) also implies distance and lack of familiarity. If I used "vous" when talking to, say, my dad, it would be the equivalent of saying "You're a stranger to me". I think the same kind of logic is why you use "tu" for this purpose.

[dehro]

I have always thought that the fact that you don't have a.. honorific form for "you" and you'll say you to your boss, your dad, your mates or the bloke who just sideswiped your car makes things somewhat simpler for people who live in English speaking countries.
In Italy, like in France, when we're talking to figures of authority, strangers or generically being polite, we can't use the tu; we'll use the voi (plural for you, much like the French vous), or the lei (which is third person singular, which has the extra complication for a foreigner because in a literal sense it translates as "she")... and picking which one to use is mostly a matter of regional habit, whether you're from the south or north of Italy.
It increases the distance between the people talking.
I've been living together with my girlfriend for a year now. She still insists on using the formal "lei" with my parents and my dad's wife. They've all asked her to stop it. She both can't (conditioning? education?) and won't, because she doesn't want to get too familiar, on account of us already living right next to them. Now, my parents don't know her ulterior motive, so they're baffled that she still does this.

On another note, I often think with my English hat on when I'm playing DnD, one reason being that I tend to look up spells and feats on the internet, invariably in English... so whenever we interact with either a god or a ruler of some description, I will use a modicum of flattery and formality, except I'll forget to use the "voi" or the "lei" (Voi is more fitting to the scenes, lei being a bit more modern)... and the DM will immediately chastise my character for it...
So it happens that my high ranking cleric of Bahamut gets regularly interrupted and scolded, to be then overlooked for the rest of the conversation unless he has something critical to contribute, and even then he's looked down upon for being uncouth and disrespectful.
In other words, this minor issue is actually cramping my gaming

[Mikemical]

I don't have so much a problem with misuses since I indulge in them myself(for example, with the word "bizarre"), however, what really grinds my gears is people F'ing up simple things.

Like people who write "fuan" instead of "faun", or "golum" instead of "golem".

[dehro]

No, that's just "the". The old letter for "th" looks kind of like a Y and so people have been using a Y instead when they want to sound old-fashioned.



Yes, you use the informal for of "you" to talk to God (and vice-versa). One way to explain that is that the "polite" you (the plural you) also implies distance and lack of familiarity. If I used "vous" when talking to, say, my dad, it would be the equivalent of saying "You're a stranger to me". I think the same kind of logic is why you use "tu" for this purpose.

Funnily enough, my grandad is adressed with vous (well.. the Dutch equivalent) by his daughters, and with you/tu (again, adjust for language) by me.
It's a form of respect that I always ascribed to a generational thing (grandad is 97, mom's 66) as in, that's how it was done back in the day..
but in the last few years my siblings have also started to adress grandpa formally, again out of respect; as much as I respect and love the old man, I still can't bring myself to do the same and will occasionally trip myself up trying to decide which form to use.

[Yuki Akuma]

No, that's just "the". The old letter for "th" looks kind of like a Y and so people have been using a Y instead when they want to sound old-fashioned.

Nope.

"Ye" (actually pronounced with the "y" in "you") is a singular second person pronoun. There was a time when "you" was only plural, and singular was either "ye" or "thou".

There's still some dialects in middle to northern England that uses one or even both of "ye" and "thou", although it's becoming vanishingly rare lately.

[thorgrim29]

Again, it's probably the French influence. If I'm remembering correctly (Lissou, feel free to step in, of course), "tu" (the french "thou") is used to casually address friends & family... and God. There are several ways I could explain the reason for this, but they all involve too much theology to be board-appropriate.

GW

I don't know how it is in the actual catholic bible since I haven't cracked one open in 20 years but both the Lord's prayer and the hail Mary use "vous" in French, and generally people addressing God in movies do that as well. That might be a catholic/reform thing though, so let's leave it at that.

[Rockphed]

Nope.

"Ye" (actually pronounced with the "y" in "you") is a singular second person pronoun. There was a time when "you" was only plural, and singular was either "ye" or "thou".

There's still some dialects in middle to northern England that uses one or even both of "ye" and "thou", although it's becoming vanishingly rare lately.

Ye was to you as me is to I or thee is to thou. Although looking it up, it seems to have been used as both the nominative and objective form, so there is more going on. Nevertheless, historically it was a plural, not singular, pronoun.

[2D8HP]

"Ye" is still used in the Lowland Scots language, which is a sibling language to English (another sibling is West Frisian), sometimes considered a dialect, sometimes a seperate language (like Creole French).

[tantric]

It's less propaganda and more just generally people being ***** to one another online.

Stuff like when people who aren't straight white kids cyberbully other kids and tell them to kill themselves.

oh, pathoinforming, disinformation that causes physical damage.

[tantric]

I have always thought that the fact that you don't have a.. honorific form for "you" and you'll say you to your boss, your dad, your mates or the bloke who just sideswiped your car makes things somewhat simpler for people who live in English speaking countries.
In Italy, like in France, when we're talking to figures of authority, strangers or generically being polite, we can't use the tu; we'll use the voi (plural for you, much like the French vous), or the lei (which is third person singular, which has the extra complication for a foreigner because in a literal sense it translates as "she")... and picking which one to use is mostly a matter of regional habit, whether you're from the south or north of Italy.
It increases the distance between the people talking.
I've been living together with my girlfriend for a year now. She still insists on using the formal "lei" with my parents and my dad's wife. They've all asked her to stop it. She both can't (conditioning? education?) and won't, because she doesn't want to get too familiar, on account of us already living right next to them. Now, my parents don't know her ulterior motive, so they're baffled that she still does this.

On another note, I often think with my English hat on when I'm playing DnD, one reason being that I tend to look up spells and feats on the internet, invariably in English... so whenever we interact with either a god or a ruler of some description, I will use a modicum of flattery and formality, except I'll forget to use the "voi" or the "lei" (Voi is more fitting to the scenes, lei being a bit more modern)... and the DM will immediately chastise my character for it...
So it happens that my high ranking cleric of Bahamut gets regularly interrupted and scolded, to be then overlooked for the rest of the conversation unless he has something critical to contribute, and even then he's looked down upon for being uncouth and disrespectful.
In other words, this minor issue is actually cramping my gaming

i majored in japanese - 4yrs of it. the entire thrid year was devoted to teaching us how to recongize social status (honor, right) and use the correct language. they actually brought in this wizened old japanese man who made sculptres from tree roots for us to honor and bow to. he exuded zen.