Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

[Grey_Wolf_c]

To paraphrase Hank Green:

"You do not HOLD DOWN THE FORT, because the fort is not inflatable and full of air! You HOLD THE FORT! It's a MILITARY METAPHOR!"

I've become infamous among my coworkers for my refusal to let this issue slide.

As far as I know, you are paraphrasing David Mitchell, not Hank Green:



GW

[shawnhcorey]

There are such things as inflatable forts, which could blow away in a strong wind. "Hold down the fort" makes perfect sense... at a kiddie party.

[georgie_leech]

When people use erb to mean herb. There's a h in that word, and you're nowhere near sexy enough to be French!

...excuse me, I'm off to mope over my ex....

Now be honest, is it that strange that people don't pronounce the h at the start of the word? Is there honour in insisting otherwise, at any hour of the day?

Awkward sentences aside, it's a regional thing. The h in herb is usually pronounced in Britain and Australia, and it's silent in North America.

Also, while we're on the subject of h's at the start of words, "An historical event" and the like remains my bane.

[Peelee]

Also, while we're on the subject of h's at the start of words, "An historical event" and the like remains my bane.

Seconded. Those people are mad, I say!

[Rockphed]

Oddly, while I do not pronounce the 'h' in herb or herbalist, I pronounce it in herbaceous (at least some of the time).

[Fyraltari]

I was thinking more of the perennial joke that the USSR shouldn't have been surprised when the Red October went rogue, given that they had put a Scotsman in command of it, but that one works as well.

GW

Maybe they expected it to go rouge instead?

Bad Fyraltari, bad!

[Lissou]

Maybe they expected it to go rouge instead?

It was already rouge, though.

[Bohandas]

People who confuse coco/cocoa and coca

[Rockphed]

People who confuse coco/cocoa and coca

Well, they are both stimulants that originated in the Americas...

[Xianthe]

I'm generally a pretty chill descriptivist when it comes to language, but there are two items that are fingernails-on-the-chalkboard for me.

1) "Irregardless"

2) Using "jail" and "prison" interchangeably. (Though I don't usually point this one out, because while they are distinct and specific entities in my state, I'm not 100% certain that holds across other states.)

[Bohandas]

Awkward sentences aside, it's a regional thing. The h in herb is usually pronounced in Britain and Australia, and it's silent in North America.

That's weird. It's usually the other way around if an h is dropped in one area but not another. It's typically a british thig (and particularly a cockney thing)

Also, while we're on the subject of h's at the start of words, "An historical event" and the like remains my bane.

This is a good example. Jt's hard to drop the"h" from "historical" and not sound cockney

[georgie_leech]

That's weird. It's usually the other way around if an h is dropped in one area but not another. It's typically a british thig (and particularly a cockney thing)

Right? 'Istorians everywhere are scratching their 'eads over that one.

[factotum]

2) Using "jail" and "prison" interchangeably.

I don't think there's really a distinction between the two in the UK...and in fact, the definition of "jail" at dictionary.com goes like this:

"a prison, especially one for the detention of persons awaiting trial or convicted of minor offenses."

So the dictionary doesn't class there as being much of a difference either!

[veti]

There are so many great words for "prison" - cooler, clink, pen, stoney lonesome, big house, hoosegow, slammer, hole, stockade...

Outside of - certain biological functions - I can't offhand think of anything that has a greater variety of (near-enough) synonyms to choose from. Who needs "jail"?

[Vinyadan]

Just write gaol instead :D

For me, it was a big surprise that draft and draught are pronounced the same way.

[Rockphed]

Just write gaol instead :D

For me, it was a big surprise that draft and draught are pronounced the same way.

I do not pronounce them the same. I am aware that they are often pronounced the same, but I pronounce the second one like "drot".

As for "Jail" versus "Prison", my understanding is that there are different legal definitions for the two in some places, but that they refer to pretty much the same sort of place. Where I grew up, a jail was a location, normally run by a municipality, that housed prisoners on a short term basis while a prison was a location that housed prisoners on a much longer term basis.

[Xianthe]

I don't think there's really a distinction between the two in the UK...and in fact, the definition of "jail" at dictionary.com goes like this:

"a prison, especially one for the detention of persons awaiting trial or convicted of minor offenses."

So the dictionary doesn't class there as being much of a difference either!

I'll admit it's probably a case of my being deep into field-specific jargon, but there is a difference in function when I encounter the words.

As for "Jail" versus "Prison", my understanding is that there are different legal definitions for the two in some places, but that they refer to pretty much the same sort of place. Where I grew up, a jail was a location, normally run by a municipality, that housed prisoners on a short term basis while a prison was a location that housed prisoners on a much longer term basis.

This, basically.

Jails are run on a county/municipal level and serve two functions (insert caveat about "in the state where I live/work" here):
1) To hold those accused of crimes until the completion of their trial.
2) To hold those convicted of misdemeanor offenses/those sentenced to serve 1 year or less of time.

Prisons are run by the state (we don't do private prisons here), and house those convicted of felony offenses/those sentenced to serve more than 1 year of time.

I think the distinction I made between type of offense and amount of time served doesn't actually come up much, since I'm pretty sure misdemeanors cap out at a year of time served, and felonies start at 1 year + 1 day of time served, so I'm not really sure whether it's the type of offense or the length of time that's the determining factor.



Anyways, I'm sure the distinction isn't universal, but I always twitch a bit when someone says "they just served five years in jail."

[Grey_Wolf_c]

For me, it was a big surprise that draft and draught are pronounced the same way.

Is it? I pronounce the f in "draft". I also used a much wider "a" sound than in "draught', which I have it closer to "o".

GW

[Bohandas]

Is there someone/somewhere that doesn't pronounce the "f" in "draft"?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Is there someone/somewhere that doesn't pronounce the "f" in "draft"?

Well, Vinyadan seems to suggest that is the case. Unless they meant that "draught" has an 'f' sound in the middle of it. I'm honestly confused as to how those two words could possibly be pronounced the same way, in any case.

GW

[Knaight]

Jails are run on a county/municipal level and serve two functions (insert caveat about "in the state where I live/work" here):
1) To hold those accused of crimes until the completion of their trial.
2) To hold those convicted of misdemeanor offenses/those sentenced to serve 1 year or less of time.

I'd add holding those accused of crimes until they make bail as well, especially when the crimes are minor (and bail is thus cheap or even free unless broken) or the accused are wealthy enough to afford expensive bail. Far from everyone accused of a crime is held in jail until completion of their trial.

[Bohandas]

I think "draught" is just a weird nonsensical old-timey spelling of "draft", like the situation we have with "gaol" and "jail"

[Peelee]

Well, Vinyadan seems to suggest that is the case. Unless they meant that "draught" has an 'f' sound in the middle of it. I'm honestly confused as to how those two words could possibly be pronounced the same way, in any case.

GW

To use a British expression, someone out there is having a laugh.

[2D8HP]

...Jails are run on a county/municipal level and serve two functions (insert caveat about "in the state where I live/work" here):
1) To hold those accused of crimes until the completion of their trial.
2) To hold those convicted of misdemeanor offenses/those sentenced to serve 1 year or less of time.

Prisons are run by the state (we don't do private prisons here), and house those convicted of felony offenses/those sentenced to serve more than 1 year of time.

I think the distinction I made between type of offense and amount of time served doesn't actually come up much, since I'm pretty sure misdemeanors cap out at a year of time served, and felonies start at 1 year + 1 day of time served, so I'm not really sure whether it's the type of offense or the length of time that's the determining factor.



Anyways, I'm sure the distinction isn't universal, but I always twitch a bit when someone says "they just served five years in jail."

You did a caveat but I'm going to chime in anyway ; for my job I mostly repair plumbing fixtures at the San Francisco Hall of Justice, and most of that work is at the Jail on the 7th floor, and I've been seeing some of the same inmates for years, which may be do to 2011's "realignment" when the State moved some of the prison inmates to the County Jails, and while in California usually Jails are County, and Prisons are State and Federal, but there still signs that say "City Prison" from when the now closed 6th floor Jail used to be the Police Departments responsibility (the 7th floor one was always the Sheriff's Department).

[Peelee]

You did a caveat but I'm going to chime in anyway ; for my job I mostly repair plumbing fixtures at the San Francisco Hall of Justice, and most of that work is at the Jail on the 7th floor, and I've been seeing some of the same inmates for years, which may be do to 2011's "realignment" when the State moved some of the prison inmates to the County Jails, and while in California usually Jails are County, and Prisons are State and Federal, but there still signs that say "City Prison" from when the now closed 6th floor Jail used to be the Police Departments responsibility (the 7th floor one was always the Sheriff's Department).

I choose to believe that whenever you go in to work, right after you park or get off the subway or bus or whatever, you say in a deep, over-dramatic voice, "Meanwhile, at the Hall of Justice..."

[halfeye]

Unless they meant that "draught" has an 'f' sound in the middle of it.

It does in England, and I thought it did everywhere else too. As Peelee says, laugh is spelt similarly and pronounced with an 'f' sound

The draft usually refers to conscription, whereas draught is winds through cracks in walls, beer having been poured (drawn) as a drink, and most other uses of the word.

[Xuc Xac]

Well, Vinyadan seems to suggest that is the case. Unless they meant that "draught" has an 'f' sound in the middle of it. I'm honestly confused as to how those two words could possibly be pronounced the same way, in any case.

GW

"Draught" and "draft" rhyme with "laughed".

[2D8HP]

I choose to believe that whenever you go in to work, right after you park or get off the subway or bus or whatever, you say in a deep, over-dramatic voice, "Meanwhile, at the Hall of Justice..."

That sounds better than: ‘What fresh hell....."

[Peelee]

That sounds better than: ‘What fresh hell....."

Eh, po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.

[2D8HP]

Eh, po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.

Eh, some say Siberian gulag, others happy funtime camp!