D&D 3.5 Wizard VS Classic Dr. Strange

[Scots Dragon]

I mentioned it earlier, but D&D is simply bad at handling true power (and no, wizard-lovers will not understand that as they see mixing pre-existing spells for synergy as "power"). Let´s talk Mage and the 10 dot-area and we´re golden.

AD&D managed to properly manage high power stunts with a couple of spells, but yeah. D&D 3.5E's optimal way of playing a wizard doesn't even really let you feel like a powerful wizard at times, it makes you feel like someone exploiting specific statements that ought to obviously not count in order to win at a game.

[Tainted_Scholar]

3.5's power lies not in offense but rather in defense. There are no spells which let you nuke a planet when used as intended, however there are plenty of spells that make you nigh untouchable when used as intended.

[ben-zayb]

Somewhere in his pocket demiplane, a certain shirtless emperor is writhing in ecstasy.

[Âmesang]

So… stupid question that was probably asked already, but… does Dr. Strange's Earth have access to Dungeons & Dragons books? Can this theoretical wizard plane shift/gate/shadow walk to an alternate Earth to pick up Dr. Strange comic books?

Heck, I'm now imagining the two forgoing the magic duel just to argue canon/rules against each other.

[Hackulator]

Has anyone pointed out that Dr. Strange has a name and random wizard does not? Because people with names ALWAYS win against people without names. Now if you asked Dr. Strange vs Elminster that would be more arguable. However regardless, a D&D wizards powers are bound by rules and Dr. Strange's powers are not, so at peak effectiveness he wins EVERY time.

[ColorBlindNinja]

So… stupid question that was probably asked already, but… does Dr. Strange's Earth have access to Dungeons & Dragons books? Can this theoretical wizard plane shift/gate/shadow walk to an alternate Earth to pick up Dr. Strange comic books?

Heck, I'm now imagining the two forgoing the magic duel just to argue canon/rules against each other.

No, I prefer to avoid that type of meta; it gets really weird really fast.

By the by, a new tactic for the Wizard is Persistent Timeless Body; nothing detrimental can happen to her now.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Has anyone pointed out that Dr. Strange has a name and random wizard does not? Because people with names ALWAYS win against people without names. Now if you asked Dr. Strange vs Elminster that would be more arguable. However regardless, a D&D wizards powers are bound by rules and Dr. Strange's powers are not, so at peak effectiveness he wins EVERY time.

No! Arguments based on narrative conveniences are not a valid argument. The reason Strange won every time was because the writer's wanted him to, however the writers at Marvel are not a factor in the fight. We are going to look at their abilities and power level to determine a winner.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Has anyone pointed out that Dr. Strange has a name and random wizard does not? Because people with names ALWAYS win against people without names. Now if you asked Dr. Strange vs Elminster that would be more arguable. However regardless, a D&D wizards powers are bound by rules and Dr. Strange's powers are not, so at peak effectiveness he wins EVERY time.

So, if I give the Wizard a name she can win? Done. Her name is Weeko (yes it's a real name).

Weeko the Wondrous Wizard! The mightiest spellcaster in all the Planescape!

[Florian]

No! Arguments based on narrative conveniences are not a valid argument..

Aha... says who?

[Tainted_Scholar]

Aha... says who?

Says the fact that this isn't a Doctor Strange Comic Book. Narrative doesn't exist outside of stories and this isn't a story.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Says the fact that this isn't a Doctor Strange Comic Book. Narrative doesn't exist outside of stories.

Indeed, it was my intention that this little match take place in a neutral universe that accommodates both characters.

I apologize for not clarifying earlier.

[noob]

The only universe where their interactions happens logically is an universe without magic nor gods and all that silly things.(an universe with magic can not accommodate both without having tons of loopholes and incoherent stuff)
Now how good is dr strange at using a rifle when compared to someone with 10 bab?(he might be surprisingly good) and which one have the most int without magic?
Also the wizard is really good at craft basket-weaving.

[Tainted_Scholar]

The only universe where their interactions happens logically is an universe without magic nor gods and all that silly things.(an universe with magic can not accommodate both without having tons of loopholes and incoherent stuff)

Why on earth would they be fighting in a Universe without magic!? Additionally, spells like Invoke Magic would let the Wizard cast even in an area without magic.

Now how good is dr strange at using a rifle when compared to someone with 10 bab?(he might be surprisingly good) and which one have the most int without magic?

A. Why on earth would he have a rifle with him?

B. Even if he did have a rifle, he couldn't kill the Wizard with it. A rifle only does 2d10 or 2d8.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Even if he did have a rifle, he couldn't kill the Wizard with it. A rifle only does 2d10 or 2d8.

Even ignoring that, Ironguard means that bullets can't hurt the Wizard.

[noob]

Even ignoring that, Ironguard means that bullets can't hurt the Wizard.

Except if both got placed in an universe where any form of magic is impossible(because else it is way too hard to compute how the spells interacts and it can lead to undecidable interactions)

[ColorBlindNinja]

Except if both got placed in an universe where any form of magic is impossible(because else it is way too hard to compute how the spells interacts and it can lead to undecidable interactions)

Planar Bubble is worded in such a way that Dead Magic Zones wouldn't affect the Wizard.

It's moot anyway; they're not fighting in a universe without magic. That would be kinda silly as they're both mages.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Except if both got placed in an universe where any form of magic is impossible(because else it is way too hard to compute how the spells interacts and it can lead to undecidable interactions)

Listen, you're not the OP. You don't get to decide things like where they fight, or how much info they have on their opponent before the fight starts. And it's pretty clear from the rest of the thread that they both have their powers.

Additionally, even if they were fighting in a place where they're magic didn't work, the Wizard would kick Strange's can. She can survive a ridiculous amount of damage and has pretty good stats (Wish to get a plus five to all stats), whereas Strange would simply get shanked and die. Or she could just use Invoke Magic and blast him with Orb of X

[Darth Ultron]

Dr. Strange does the type of magic that is a near limitless powerful wish effect. So he'd win all the time, unless you could surprise him or distract him somehow.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Dr. Strange does the type of magic that is a near limitless powerful wish effect. So he'd win all the time, unless you could surprise him or distract him somehow.

Can you provide some evidence for this claim?

[SimonMoon6]

The only universe where their interactions happens logically is an universe without magic nor gods and all that silly things.(an universe with magic can not accommodate both without having tons of loopholes and incoherent stuff)
Now how good is dr strange at using a rifle when compared to someone with 10 bab?(he might be surprisingly good) and which one have the most int without magic?
Also the wizard is really good at craft basket-weaving.

From http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Stephen...ge_(Earth-616) :

Skilled Martial Artist: Dr. Strange is a skilled athlete and was trained in the martial arts used by Tibetan monks in Kamar Taj, proving sufficiently talented to pass down such training to others, such as Clea. These talents have assisted him from time-to-time when incapable of using his sorcery. Strange is a formidable opponent to any skilled attacker and continues to train regularly with Wong. He has in some cases, been known to occasionally spar with other heroes; in one case, Strange was able to evade a kung fu hand-chop by Mantis (the future mother of the Dreaming Celestial) "only three others have ever done" and who has been able to subdue Thor in sheer physical combat, despite his strength nearly hundreds of times superior to her own.

Basically, you can assume that Doctor Strange is a gestalt wizard/monk.

[Hackulator]

No! Arguments based on narrative conveniences are not a valid argument. The reason Strange won every time was because the writer's wanted him to, however the writers at Marvel are not a factor in the fight. We are going to look at their abilities and power level to determine a winner.

I can't tell if your use of an exclamation point is serious or humorous, I hope the latter.

Secondly, it doesn't matter. The only thing we have to describe Dr. Strange's power level are the comics, and in many, many years of comics and hundreds if not thousands of adventures, Dr. Strange has displayed powers that are completely unbounded. A D&D wizard has a specific set of bounds to its power that we have. Unbounded power > bounded power, Dr. Strange wins.

So, if I give the Wizard a name she can win? Done. Her name is Weeko (yes it's a real name).

Weeko the Wondrous Wizard! The mightiest spellcaster in all the Planescape!

The wizard definitely has a better chance now, yes.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Secondly, it doesn't matter. The only thing we have to describe Dr. Strange's power level are the comics, and in many, many years of comics and hundreds if not thousands of adventures, Dr. Strange has displayed powers that are completely unbounded. A D&D wizard has a specific set of bounds to its power that we have. Unbounded power > bounded power, Dr. Strange wins.

A. We have to go by what level of Power Strange has actually shown. You can't say, "oh his power is boundless" you have to use actual showings of Strange's Power.

B. The Wizard can easily produce infinite damage.

The wizard definitely has a better chance now, yes.

You have just destroyed any credibility you had in this debate with this claim. Having a name won't change how powerful the Wizard is.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Secondly, it doesn't matter. The only thing we have to describe Dr. Strange's power level are the comics, and in many, many years of comics and hundreds if not thousands of adventures, Dr. Strange has displayed powers that are completely unbounded. A D&D wizard has a specific set of bounds to its power that we have. Unbounded power > bounded power, Dr. Strange wins.

Can you show evidence of this unbounded power? From the Wiki articles I read through, it would seem that Strange has limits.

The wizard definitely has a better chance now, yes.

I was mostly joking. Having a name has no barring on who would win.

[Hackulator]

A. We have to go by what level of Power Strange has actually shown. You can't say, "oh his power is boundless" you have to use actual showings of Strange's Power.

B. The Wizard can easily produce infinite damage.

Dr. Strange has survived inside the sun, traveled through time under his own power to win fights he had lost or was going to lose, and defeated God in a fight (yes like, the judeo-christian god). He is powerful enough that he can use the Darkhold, which is basically a more powerful version of the Codex of Infinite Planes, without being corrupted by it. He has an insane supply of other incredibly powerful, artifact level items in his sanctum. His spells are powerful enough to affect gods (he once made Galactus scream like a bitch with illusion spells). He's immune to aging, has telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation and every other power you can think of.

I was mostly joking. Having a name has no barring on who would win.

Clearly you have no exposure to modern media.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Dr. Strange has survived inside the sun, traveled through time under his own power to win fights he had lost or was going to lose, and defeated God in a fight (yes like, the judeo-christian god). He is powerful enough that he can use the Darkhold, which is basically a more powerful version of the Codex of Infinite Planes, without being corrupted by it. He has an insane supply of other incredibly powerful, artifact level items in his sanctum. His spells are powerful enough to affect gods (he once made Galactus scream like a bitch with illusion spells). He's immune to aging, has telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation and every other power you can think of.

Yet, that all does nothing VS Divine Splendor from an Ice Assassin.

Clearly you have no exposure to modern media.

That's irrelevant; this is a VS battle not a comic crossover.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Dr. Strange has survived inside the sun, traveled through time under his own power to win fights he had lost or was going to lose, and defeated God in a fight (yes like, the judeo-christian god). He is powerful enough that he can use the Darkhold, which is basically a more powerful version of the Codex of Infinite Planes, without being corrupted by it. He has an insane supply of other incredibly powerful, artifact level items in his sanctum. His spells are powerful enough to affect gods (he once made Galactus scream like a bitch with illusion spells). He's immune to aging, has telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation and every other power you can think of.

Thank you, that's far more useful.

Clearly you have no exposure to modern media.

This isn't a story, there is no narrative and as such tropes and cliches have no bearing on this fight. All that matters here is power and how you use it.

[Hackulator]

This isn't a story, there is no narrative and as such tropes and cliches have no bearing on this fight. All that matters here is power and how you use it.

This is nothing but a story. This is discussing a fight between an established fictional character in one fictional universe and a theoretical fictional character in another completely different fictional universe. We are telling a story and arguing about how the story should go. Please explain to me what other sane way there is to view what we are discussing?

Yet, that all does nothing VS Divine Splendor from an Ice Assassin.

Dr. Strange defeated death to gain immortality, Divine Splendor only affects mortals.

[Tainted_Scholar]

This is nothing but a story. This is discussing a fight between an established fictional character in one fictional universe and a theoretical fictional character in another completely different fictional universe. We are telling a story and arguing about how the story should go. Please explain to me what other sane way there is to view what we are discussing?

Because this is just a Fight. Narrative conventions don't matter, we are going to look at the character's power and abilities and use logic to determine who wins.

Dr. Strange defeated death to gain immortality, Divine Splendor only affects mortals.

In D&D, mortal just means a non deity. Liches don't age and die (meaning they're immortal), yet they are still affected by Divine Splender. Unless you mean that Strange is literally incapable of dying, in which case trap the soul works just fine.

[ColorBlindNinja]

This is nothing but a story. This is discussing a fight between an established fictional character in one fictional universe and a theoretical fictional character in another completely different fictional universe. We are telling a story and arguing about how the story should go. Please explain to me what other sane way there is to view what we are discussing?

As a VS debate.

Dr. Strange defeated death to gain immortality, Divine Splendor only affects mortals.

No. D&D defines "mortal" in this context as not a god. The Wizard is immortal too, but since she isn't a god, Divine Splendor can kill her.

[Hackulator]

As a VS debate.



No. D&D defines "mortal" in this context as not a god. The Wizard is immortal too, but since she isn't a god, Divine Splendor can kill her.

"VS debate" has no meaning without context. A "VS Debate" is nothing more than an exercise in collaborative storytelling.

Where is that definition?