Most Optimized Wizard a Fighter Can Beat.

[PanosIs]

We might have different standards on what counts as PO.

I think we do, but then again I think this whole forum has pretty high standards for optimization and most actual groups play at a lower power level.

Perhaps not. But that wouldn't be such a big deal if I could cast contingency myself.

Well, all contingencies only work once. If I were being more optimal, I would have tied it to a short phrase (you can speak out of turn order) or I might just stay in the sphere and have minions fight for me.

Most practical contingencies I've seen, even with Craft Contingent Spell are very specific and cover specific dire situations, not things expected to happen every fight. "If I begin casting Teleport in a Dimensional Lock Dispel Magic", "If I think I'm dealt lethal damage Teleport to the party base" or have a trigger phrase like you described.

That leaves out a number of factors. The Wizard might have other contingencies, she might anticipate that Jarovich has such a Rod (every Fighter should carry one if he can afford it), and try something completely different.

I was rethinking Ellen's strategy and think she could win if she cast Time Stop after Dim Dooring out of the Resilient Sphere. She could cast a Chain Greater Dispel Magic and then another Time Stop. Finally, she could use a Maximized Iceberg followed by a quicken one.

It does, but I don't think any Wizard's first responce to a fighter type is: Teleport, Quickened Time Stop, Chained Greater Dispel Magic, Quickened Time Stop, Maximized Iceberd, Quickened Maximized Iceberg either. That's pretty TO for my standards, not something I'd expect to happen unless there was in game foreplanning and the opponent was known to be a BEG.

I agree that Jarovich beats the average practical Wizard, but I don't think we need TO levels of optimization for the Wizard to win.

I do think so, but then again, it's the different standards again. I consider Jarovich to be a TO build as well.

I was thinking that spells like Celerity let Wizards kill off most martial types before they can respond.

Do they? I don't think anyone starts a fight in a real game by using Celerity. It's more of an escape button than an I win initiative button, maybe a wizard does this and casts Maze/Similarly powerful spell, if the encounter is well designed that is a good move but not an encounter ending one.

Well, Druids and Clerics are called CoDzilla for reason. It's also not hard for most Wizards to pick up the Orb of X line and few Metamagic feats for a healthy damage output.

Yes, and as AvatarVecna displayed with Thor, a Wizard can be built as a pretty mighty Fighter type as well. What I'm saying is that in an actual party that's often not how it plays out. A Wizard can have a healthy damage output, but he wont deal as much damage as a charger or a volley archer or any other actually competitive fightery build. Of course he CAN do that, but Wizards can do anything.

Do tell me if you can't fly without magic items anymore.

If you put the Half-Fey template in Jarovich gets wings again. Otherwise I'd get a the Demonic Graft Wings and always make the Will save.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I think we do, but then again I think this whole forum has pretty high standards for optimization and most actual groups play at a lower power level.

I agree.

Most practical contingencies I've seen, even with Craft Contingent Spell are very specific and cover specific dire situations, not things expected to happen every fight. "If I begin casting Teleport in a Dimensional Lock Dispel Magic", "If I think I'm dealt lethal damage Teleport to the party base" or have a trigger phrase like you described.

Ellen is pretty fragile. I see what you mean, though.

It does, but I don't think any Wizard's first responce to a fighter type is: Teleport, Quickened Time Stop, Chained Greater Dispel Magic, Quickened Time Stop, Maximized Iceberd, Quickened Maximized Iceberg either. That's pretty TO for my standards, not something I'd expect to happen unless there was in game foreplanning and the opponent was known to be a BEG.

Normally, the Wizard would be with a party. But, if you're fighting a single character by yourself, you'd better bring out all the stops, or you could easily die.

I do think so, but then again, it's the different standards again. I consider Jarovich to be a TO build as well.

I'd call him mid-hi PO myself, but OK.

Do they? I don't think anyone starts a fight in a real game by using Celerity. It's more of an escape button than an I win initiative button, maybe a wizard does this and casts Maze/Similarly powerful spell, if the encounter is well designed that is a good move but not an encounter ending one.

I kind of doubt that Celerity sees much real game use. Again, a one on one battle is atypical; you'll probably see different tactics than if you were in a party environment.

Yes, and as AvatarVecna displayed with Thor, a Wizard can be built as a pretty mighty Fighter type as well. What I'm saying is that in an actual party that's often not how it plays out. A Wizard can have a healthy damage output, but he wont deal as much damage as a charger or a volley archer or any other actually competitive fightery build. Of course he CAN do that, but Wizards can do anything.

I believe with the right Metamagic (and with Celerity) a Wizard can hit around 700 damage or so with the Orb of X spells. Sorcerers can do even more damage thanks to stuff like Arcane Fusion.

In most games, the Wizard doesn't need blasting; the party beatstick can handle damage, while the Wizard does something else.

If you put the Half-Fey template in Jarovich gets wings again. Otherwise I'd get a the Demonic Graft Wings and always make the Will save.

Got it. I've got a third Wizard build in the works, a sort of Ellen MKII. It should be done soon.

Edit: Here's the third build; suggestions are welcome.

Spoiler: Ellen MKII

Show

Wizard 15/Archmage 5

Snow Elf

Domain Wizard (Storm Domain)/Elven Generalist

HP: 143

AC: 23

INIT: +26 (+6 Rhamphorhynchus Familar, roll twice and take better result,)
INIT: +31 with Nerveskitter

STR: 8 (-1)
DEX: 24 (+7)
CON: 20 (+5)
INT: 34 (+12)
WIS: 8 (-1)
CHA: 6 (-2)

BAB: +9/+4

Melee: +8/+3
Ranged: +16/+10

FORT: +11
REF: +13
WILL: +12

High Arcana:
Arcane Reach
Master of Shaping
Mastery of Elements

Elven Generalist: Natural Link, instead of Channel Touch Spells ability

0: 4+1

1: 7+1

2: 7+1

3: 7+1

4: 7+1

5: 6+1

6: 6

7: 6

8: 6

9: 6+1 (+1 for Elven Generalist)

Spoiler: Spells Known

Show

0: All

1: Nerveskitter, Mage's Armor, Grease, Alarm, Feather Fall, Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield, Scholar's Touch, Lesser Orb of Force, True Strike, Color Spray, Obscuring Mist, Summon Monster I, Charm Person, Magic Missile, Lesser Orb of Fire

2: Invisibility, Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Heroics, Heart of Air, Rope Trick, Spectral Hand, Seeking Ray, Gust of Wind, Shatter

3: Haste, Sleet Storm, Phantom Steed, Slow, Dispel Magic, Shrink Item, Ray of Exaustion, Heart of Water, Lightning Bolt, Wind Wall, Stinking Cloud

4: Scrying, Heart of Earth, Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Dimension Door, Invisibility Greater, Enervation, Anticipate Teleportation, Ice Storm, Resilent Sphere, Charm Monster

5: Cloudkill, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Overland Flight, Acid Rain, Heart of Fire, Contact Other Plane, Shadow Evocation, Wall of Force, Dominate Person, Control Winds

6: Dispel Magic Greater, True Seeing, Heroism Greater, Acid Fog, Wall of Iron, Analyze Dweomer, Permanent Image, Programmed Image, Contingency, Chain Lightning, Geas

7: Vison, Spell Turning, Elemental Body, Limited Wish, Waves of Exhaustion, Control Weather, Teleport Greater, Plane Shift, Greater Arcane Sight, Scrying Greater, Forcecage

8: Mind Blank, Protection from Spells, Maze, Ghostform, Moment of Prescience, Trap the Soul, Discern Location, Whirlwind, Telekinetic Sphere, Irresistible Dance

9: Shades, Prismatic Sphere, Foresight, Maw of Chaos, Obedient Avalanche, Wail of the Banshee, Time Stop, Wish, Summon Elemental Monolith, Effulgent Epuration, Imprisonment, Mage's Disjunction, Reaving Dispel, Soul Bind, Refuge, Teleportation Circle, Storm of Vengeance, Iceberg, Chain Contingency, Power Word Kill, Dominate Monster

Spoiler: Feats

Show

Scribe Scroll
Collegiate Wizard
Improved Initiative
Spell Focus Abjuration
Skill Focus Spellcraft
Greater Spell Focus Abjuration
Extend Spell
Quicken Spell
Spell Penatration
Craft Contingent Spell
Sudden Maximize

Spoiler: Gear

Show

Headband of Intellect +6
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Amulet Health +6
Metamagic Rod, Quicken (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Chain (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Extend (Greater)
Handy Haversack
Vest of the Archmagi (+5 to saves, +8 armor bonus to AC)
Ring of Freedom of Movement
Ring of Anticipation
Tome of Clear Thought (+5)
Orange Ioun Stone
Iridescent Ioun Stone (No need for air)
+1 Warning Eager Initiative Dagger (+9 init)

98,302 GP left over

Later Edit:

Tactics are largely the same as before. This time around the plan is to win initiative, cast Time Stop and buff, then use Maximized/Quickened Iceberg. Maybe preceded by a Chain Greater Dispel Magic.

I was thinking of casting Control Winds during Time Stop to discourage Jarovich from flying. Dim Door is probably going to be my Contingency; maybe with Resilient Sphere as a back up.

Much Later Edit:

I screwed up average the dice rolls! I fixed the HP values for all the Wizard builds. Also, that means I goofed on the average damage for Iceberg (non-Maximized); on average Iceberg should be dealing 70 damage or 140 if I'm using it twice in a round.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Edit: Here's the third build; suggestions are welcome.

Spoiler: Ellen MKII

Show

Wizard 15/Archmage 5

Snow Elf

Domain Wizard (Storm Domain)/Elven Generalist

HP: 143

AC: 23

INIT: +26 (+6 Rhamphorhynchus Familar, roll twice and take better result,)
INIT: +31 with Nerveskitter

STR: 8 (-1)
DEX: 24 (+7)
CON: 20 (+5)
INT: 34 (+12)
WIS: 8 (-1)
CHA: 6 (-2)

BAB: +9/+4

Melee: +8/+3
Ranged: +16/+10

FORT: +11
REF: +13
WILL: +12

High Arcana:
Arcane Reach
Master of Shaping
Master of Elements

Elven Generalist: Natural Link, instead of Channel Touch Spells ability

0: 4+1

1: 7+1

2: 7+1

3: 7+1

4: 7+1

5: 6+1

6: 6

7: 6

8: 6

9: 6+1 (+1 for Elven Generalist)

Spoiler: Spells Known

Show

0: All

1: Nerveskitter, Mage's Armor, Grease, Alarm, Feather Fall, Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield, Scholar's Touch, Lesser Orb of Force, True Strike, Color Spray, Obscuring Mist, Summon Monster I, Charm Person, Magic Missile, Lesser Orb of Fire

2: Invisibility, Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Heroics, Heart of Air, Rope Trick, Spectral Hand, Seeking Ray, Gust of Wind, Shatter

3: Haste, Sleet Storm, Phantom Steed, Slow, Dispel Magic, Shrink Item, Ray of Exaustion, Heart of Water, Lightning Bolt, Wind Wall, Stinking Cloud

4: Scrying, Heart of Earth, Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Dimension Door, Invisibility Greater, Enervation, Anticipate Teleportation, Ice Storm, Resilent Sphere, Charm Monster

5: Cloudkill, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Overland Flight, Acid Rain, Heart of Fire, Contact Other Plane, Shadow Evocation, Wall of Force, Dominate Person, Control Winds

6: Dispel Magic Greater, True Seeing, Heroism Greater, Acid Fog, Wall of Iron, Analyze Dweomer, Permanent Image, Programmed Image, Contingency, Chain Lightning, Geas

7: Vison, Spell Turning, Elemental Body, Limited Wish, Waves of Exhaustion, Control Weather, Teleport Greater, Plane Shift, Greater Arcane Sight, Scrying Greater, Forcecage

8: Mind Blank, Protection from Spells, Maze, Ghostform, Moment of Prescience, Trap the Soul, Discern Location, Whirlwind, Telekinetic Sphere, Irresistible Dance

9: Shades, Prismatic Sphere, Foresight, Maw of Chaos, Obedient Avalanche, Wail of the Banshee, Time Stop, Wish, Summon Elemental Monolith, Effulgent Epuration, Imprisonment, Mage's Disjunction, Reaving Dispel, Soul Bind, Refuge, Teleportation Circle, Storm of Vengeance, Iceberg, Chain Contingency, Power Word Kill, Dominate Monster

Spoiler: Feats

Show

Scribe Scroll
Collegiate Wizard
Improved Initiative
Spell Focus Abjuration
Skill Focus Spellcraft
Greater Spell Focus Abjuration
Extend Spell
Quicken Spell
Spell Penatration
Craft Contingent Spell
Sudden Maximize

Spoiler: Gear

Show

Headband of Intellect +6
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Amulet Health +6
Metamagic Rod, Quicken (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Chain (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Extend (Greater)
Handy Haversack
Vest of the Archmagi (+5 to saves, +8 armor bonus to AC)
Ring of Freedom of Movement
Ring of Anticipation
Tome of Clear Thought (+5)
Orange Ioun Stone
Iridescent Ioun Stone (No need for air)
+1 Warning Eager Initiative Dagger (+9 init)

98,302 GP left over

Later Edit:

Tactics are largely the same as before. This time around the plan is to win initiative, cast Time Stop and buff, then use Maximized/Quickened Iceberg. Maybe preceded by a Chain Greater Dispel Magic.

I was thinking of casting Control Winds during Time Stop to discourage Jarovich from flying. Dim Door is probably going to be my Contingency; maybe with Resilient Sphere as a back up.

Do you have any planes for your High Arcana? It seems a bit wasteful to take Arch-Mage and not use its class features.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Do you have any planes for your High Arcana? It seems a bit wasteful to take Arch-Mage and not use its class features.

I guess I could use Mastery of Elements to change Iceberg to deal sonic damage. It's not as commonly resisted as cold damage.

[SoraWolf7]

Question: This might just be me thinking outside the box, but I'm remembering the page in OotS where Haley drank a Potion of Glibness and then basically was able to bluff her butt off. I did a little reading, and one epic use of Bluff is to replicated Suggestion non-magically and only for 10 minutes. My point is, have we forgotten about Diplomancy to relax the wizard into believing we are not a threat or perhaps they want to do something else that would benefit yourself?

[ColorBlindNinja]

Question: This might just be me thinking outside the box, but I'm remembering the page in OotS where Haley drank a Potion of Glibness and then basically was able to bluff her butt off. I did a little reading, and one epic use of Bluff is to replicated Suggestion non-magically and only for 10 minutes. My point is, have we forgotten about Diplomancy to relax the wizard into believing we are not a threat or perhaps they want to do something else that would benefit yourself?

Diplomacy/Bluff probably won't work as the Wizard is a PC and she has Mind Blank up.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Diplomacy/Bluff probably won't work as the Wizard is a PC and she has Mind Blank up.

I think Bluff still works on PCs.

But the Wizard get's a +50 to the Sense motive check if you try to use suggestion on her with Bluff.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I think Bluff still works on PCs.

But the Wizard get's a +50 to the Sense motive check if you try to use suggestion on her with Bluff.

Mind Blank still blocks the Suggestion effect.

Edit:

If we want to get technical, the Wizards I built only get a +49 as they have only an 8 in wisdom.

[Tainted_Scholar]

If we want to get technical, the Wizards I built only get a +49 as they have only an 8 in wisdom.

How high could the Fighter get his Bluff skill?

[ColorBlindNinja]

How high could the Fighter get his Bluff skill?

If the Fighter was a Dragonwrought Kobold with max ranks in Bluff, has a 31 in CHA, Skill Focus, a Snake Familiar, the Persuasive Feat, has a Masterwork tool, and takes 10... He'd have a final result of 57. (Assuming my math is correct).

If the Wizard took 10 on Sense Motive, she'd have a 59-60 (depending on if her WIS was 8 or 10).

Someone might be able to pump that Bluff check higher (probably with spells).

[The_Jette]

I just read through the Mind Blank spell, and don't see any reference to a +50 to Sense Motive. Is there a reference that you can show where this is listed?

[ColorBlindNinja]

I just read through the Mind Blank spell, and don't see any reference to a +50 to Sense Motive. Is there a reference that you can show where this is listed?

I was talking about the epic use of Bluff that acts like Suggestion; Suggestion is blocked by Mind Blank. I apologize if that wasn't clear.

On Anti-Fighter tactics... I was thinking about using Dimensional Lock + Solid Fog + Acid Rain. No saves or to hit rolls for any of that.

Edit:
@Tainted Scholar
Do you think that Jarovich is TO? PanosIs seemed to think so. I disagree, but I thought I'd ask.

Later Edit:
@The_Jette
The +50 to Sense Motive is from the epic Bluff skill if you're using a Suggestion effect.

[Tainted_Scholar]

@Tainted Scholar
Do you think that Jarovich is TO? PanosIs seemed to think so. I disagree, but I thought I'd ask.

Probably not, it's very powerful for a Fighter, but that's not saying much.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Probably not, it's very powerful for a Fighter, but that's not saying much.

OK, I thought as much.

Back to Anti-Fighter tactics for a second, I think Sleet Storm would combo well with Solid Fog and Acid Rain.

[The_Jette]

@The_Jette
The +50 to Sense Motive is from the epic Bluff skill if you're using a Suggestion effect.

Thank you!

[ColorBlindNinja]

While we're waiting for PanosIs, does anyone else want a turn at building a Fighter?

These are the Wizards I built:

Spoiler: Ellen MKI

Show

Wizard 20

HP: 153

AC: 28

INIT: +10

STR: 8 (-1)
DEX: 22 (+6)
CON: 20 (+5)
INT: 34 (+12)
WIS: 8 (-1)
CHA: 8 (-1)

BAB: +10/+5

Melee: +9/+4
Ranged: +14/+11

FORT: +16
REF: +18
WILL: +16

Spells Per Day
0: 4

1: 7

2: 7

3: 7

4: 7

5: 6

6: 6

7: 6

8: 6

9: 6 (+1 for Elven Generalist)

Spoiler: Spells Known

Show

0: All
1: Magic Missile, Mage's Armor, Grease, Alarm, Chill Touch, Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield, Burning Hands, Floating Disc, True Strike

2: Scorching Ray, Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Shatter, Gust of Wind

3: Haste, Fireball, Phantom Steed, Slow, Wind Wall, Shrink Item

4: Scrying, Stoneskin, Black Tentacles, Charm Monster, Dimension Door, Invisibility Greater

5: Cloudkill, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Overland Flight, Wall of Force, Cone of Cold

6: Dispel Magic Greater, True Seeing, Heroism Greater, Geas, Chain Lightning, Contingency (too optimized?)

7: Vison, Forcecage, Finger of Death, Limited Wish, Waves of Exhaustion, Control Weather

8: Mind Blank, Protection from Spells, Maze, Irresistible Dance, Moment of Prescience, Horrid Wilting.

9: Shades, Iceberg, Foresight, Dominate Monster, Energy Drain, Wail of the Banshee, Time Stop, Wish, Hold Monster Mass, Power Word Kill, Imprisonment, Mage's Disjunction.

Spoiler: Feats

Show

Scribe Scroll
Improved Initiative
Extend Spell
Sudden Maximize
Reach Spell
Spell Mastery: (Teleport, Scrying, Shrink Item, Phantom Steed, Silent Image)
Quicken Spell
Spell Focus: Necromancy
Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration

Spoiler: Gear

Show

Headband of Intellect +6
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Amulet Health +6
Metamagic Rod, Quicken (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Chain (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Extend (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Silence (Greater)
Handy Haversack
Vest of the Archmagi (+5 to saves, +8 armor bonus to AC)
Ring of Freedom of Movement
Ring of Protection (+5)
Tome of Clear Thought (+5)
Orange Ioun Stone
Iridescent Ioun Stone (No need for air)

1,500 GP left over

Spoiler: Hayate the Human Wizard

Show

Wizard 5/Master Specialist 10/Archmage 5

Conjurer (Banned Evocation & Enchantment)

HP: 153

AC: 28

INIT: +23 (+4 from Humming Bird Familar)

STR: 8 (-1)
DEX: 22 (+6)
CON: 20 (+5)
INT: 34 (+12)
WIS: 8 (-1)
CHA: 8 (-1)

BAB: +9/+4

Melee: +8/+3
Ranged: +15/+10

FORT: +10
REF: +11
WILL: +14

High Arcana:
Arcane Reach
Master of Shaping
Spell Like Ability (Teleport)

Spells Per Day
0: 5

1: 8

2: 8

3: 8

4: 8

5: 5

6: 6

7: 6

8: 7

9: 6

Spoiler: Spells Known

Show

0: All (except banned schools)

1: Nerveskitter, Mage's Armor, Grease, Alarm, Feather Fall, Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield, Scholar's Touch, Lesser Orb of Force, True Strike, Color Spray, Obscuring Mist, Summon Monster I

2: Invisibility, Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Heroics, Heart of Air, Rope Trick, Spectral Hand

3: Haste, Fly, Phantom Steed, Slow, Dispel Magic, Shrink Item, Ray of Exaustion, Heart of Water

4: Scrying, Heart of Earth, Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Dimension Door, Invisibility Greater, Enervation, Anticipate Teleportation

5: Cloudkill, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Overland Flight, Break Enchantment, Heart of Fire, Contact Other Plane, Shadow Evocation

6: Dispel Magic Greater, True Seeing, Mislead, Acid Fog, Wall of Iron, Analyze Dweomer, Permanent Image, Programmed Image

7: Vison, Spell Turning, Elemental Body, Limited Wish, Waves of Exhaustion, Control Weather, Teleport Greater, Plane Shift

8: Mind Blank, Protection from Spells, Maze, Ghostform, Moment of Prescience, Trap the Soul, Discern Location.

9: Shades, Prismatic Sphere, Foresight, Maw of Chaos (too OP?), Obedient Avalanche, Wail of the Banshee, Time Stop, Wish, Summon Elemental Monolith, Effulgent Epuration, Imprisonment, Mage's Disjunction, Reaving Dispel, Soul Bind, Refuge, Teleportation Circle.

Spoiler: Feats

Show

Scribe Scroll
Collegiate Wizard
Improved Initiative
Spell Focus Abjuration
Skill Focus Spellcraft
Greater Spell Focus Abjuration
Extend Spell
Quicken Spell
Spell Penatration
Craft Contingent Spell

Spoiler: Gear

Show

Headband of Intellect +6
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Amulet Health +6
Metamagic Rod, Quicken (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Chain (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Extend (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Maximize (Greater)
Handy Haversack
Vest of the Archmagi (+5 to saves, +8 armor bonus to AC)
Ring of Freedom of Movement
Ring of Protection (+5)
Tome of Clear Thought (+5)
Orange Ioun Stone
Iridescent Ioun Stone (No need for air)
+1 Warning Eager Initiative Dagger (+9 init)

302 GP left over

Spoiler: Ellen MKII

Show

Wizard 15/Archmage 5

Snow Elf

Domain Wizard (Storm Domain)/Elven Generalist

HP: 143

AC: 23

INIT: +26 (+6 Rhamphorhynchus Familar, roll twice and take better result,)
INIT: +31 with Nerveskitter

STR: 8 (-1)
DEX: 24 (+7)
CON: 20 (+5)
INT: 34 (+12)
WIS: 8 (-1)
CHA: 6 (-2)

BAB: +9/+4

Melee: +8/+3
Ranged: +16/+10

FORT: +11
REF: +13
WILL: +12

High Arcana:
Arcane Reach
Master of Shaping
Mastery of Elements

Elven Generalist: Natural Link, instead of Channel Touch Spells ability

0: 4+1

1: 7+1

2: 7+1

3: 7+1

4: 7+1

5: 6+1

6: 6

7: 6

8: 6

9: 6+1 (+1 for Elven Generalist)

Spoiler: Spells Known

Show

0: All

1: Nerveskitter, Mage's Armor, Grease, Alarm, Feather Fall, Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield, Scholar's Touch, Lesser Orb of Force, True Strike, Color Spray, Obscuring Mist, Summon Monster I, Charm Person, Magic Missile, Lesser Orb of Fire

2: Invisibility, Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Heroics, Heart of Air, Rope Trick, Spectral Hand, Seeking Ray, Gust of Wind, Shatter

3: Haste, Sleet Storm, Phantom Steed, Slow, Dispel Magic, Shrink Item, Ray of Exaustion, Heart of Water, Lightning Bolt, Wind Wall, Stinking Cloud

4: Scrying, Heart of Earth, Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Dimension Door, Invisibility Greater, Enervation, Anticipate Teleportation, Ice Storm, Resilent Sphere, Charm Monster

5: Cloudkill, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Overland Flight, Acid Rain, Heart of Fire, Contact Other Plane, Shadow Evocation, Wall of Force, Dominate Person, Control Winds

6: Dispel Magic Greater, True Seeing, Heroism Greater, Acid Fog, Wall of Iron, Analyze Dweomer, Permanent Image, Programmed Image, Contingency, Chain Lightning, Geas

7: Vison, Spell Turning, Elemental Body, Limited Wish, Waves of Exhaustion, Control Weather, Teleport Greater, Plane Shift, Greater Arcane Sight, Scrying Greater, Forcecage

8: Mind Blank, Protection from Spells, Maze, Ghostform, Moment of Prescience, Trap the Soul, Discern Location, Whirlwind, Telekinetic Sphere, Irresistible Dance

9: Shades, Prismatic Sphere, Foresight, Maw of Chaos, Obedient Avalanche, Wail of the Banshee, Time Stop, Wish, Summon Elemental Monolith, Effulgent Epuration, Imprisonment, Mage's Disjunction, Reaving Dispel, Soul Bind, Refuge, Teleportation Circle, Storm of Vengeance, Iceberg, Chain Contingency, Power Word Kill, Dominate Monster

Spoiler: Feats

Show

Scribe Scroll
Collegiate Wizard
Improved Initiative
Spell Focus Abjuration
Skill Focus Spellcraft
Greater Spell Focus Abjuration
Extend Spell
Quicken Spell
Spell Penatration
Craft Contingent Spell
Sudden Maximize

Spoiler: Gear

Show

Headband of Intellect +6
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Amulet Health +6
Metamagic Rod, Quicken (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Chain (Greater)
Metamagic Rod, Extend (Greater)
Handy Haversack
Vest of the Archmagi (+5 to saves, +8 armor bonus to AC)
Ring of Freedom of Movement
Ring of Anticipation
Tome of Clear Thought (+5)
Orange Ioun Stone
Iridescent Ioun Stone (No need for air)
+1 Warning Eager Initiative Dagger (+9 init)

98,302 GP left over

If anyone purposes a build, we can talk tactics VS Ellen (MKI).

Edit: I swapped out Empower Spell for Sudden Maximize for Ellen MKI.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Welp, here's a Fighter I used a while back. She's horribly built, but we should be able to boost her optimization.

Spoiler: Howard the Fighter (Yes, she's a girl)

Show

Fighter 20. Water Orc. Neutral.

HP: 235

AC:32. Touch:32. Flat-Footed:32.

Initiative:+6

STR: 31 (+10)
DEX: 14 (+2)
CON: 22 (+6)
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 6 (-2)
CHA: 6 (-2)

FORT: +23
REF: +13
WILL: +16

BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5

Grapple: +30

Attack With Great Sword*: +35/+30/+25/+20. 2d6+20. 17-20 X 2.

Intimidate: +17
Jump: +33
Spellcraft: +2

Spoiler: Feats

Show

Endurance
Improved Initiative
Power Attack
Steadfast Determination
Improved Bullrush
Shock Trooper
Leap Attack
Improved Unarmed Strike
Fearless
Mage Slayer
Blind Fight
Pierce Magical Concealment

Spoiler: Equipment

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Thalud Stone: +17 AC. Death Ward., Displacement, Ghost Touch.
*+5 Valorous, Keen, Collision, Ghost Touch, Great Sword.
Belt of Giant's Strength +6
Amulet of Health +6
Vest of Resistance +5
Wings of Flying
Cowl of Warding
Boots of Teleportation
Ring of Protection +5
Bag of Holding 2

900 GP left over.

I know she's horribly built, but I don't know much about optimizing Fighters and this is literally an old character sheet I had lying around.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Welp, here's a Fighter I used a while back. She's horribly built, but we should be able to boost her optimization.

Spoiler: Howard the Fighter (Yes, she's a girl)

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Fighter 20. Water Orc. Neutral.

HP: 235

AC:32. Touch:32. Flat-Footed:32.

Initiative:+6

STR: 31 (+10)
DEX: 14 (+2)
CON: 22 (+6)
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 6 (-2)
CHA: 6 (-2)

FORT: +23
REF: +13
WILL: +16

BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5

Grapple: +30

Attack With Great Sword*: +35/+30/+25/+20. 2d6+20. 17-20 X 2.

Intimidate: +17
Jump: +33
Spellcraft: +2

Spoiler: Feats

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Endurance
Improved Initiative
Power Attack
Steadfast Determination
Improved Bullrush
Shock Trooper
Leap Attack
Improved Unarmed Strike
Fearless
Mage Slayer
Blind Fight
Pierce Magical Concealment

Spoiler: Equipment

Show

Thalud Stone: +17 AC. Death Ward., Displacement, Ghost Touch.
*+5 Valorous, Keen, Collision, Ghost Touch, Great Sword.
Belt of Giant's Strength +6
Amulet of Health +6
Vest of Resistance +5
Wings of Flying
Cowl of Warding
Boots of Teleportation
Ring of Protection +5
Bag of Holding 2

900 GP left over.

I know she's horribly built, but I don't know much about optimizing Fighters and this is literally an old character sheet I had lying around.

It's a start. Maybe you could swap some of those stat boosting items for a Belt of Magnificence +6?

The Eager Warning Initiative Dagger that Ellen MKII/Jarovich use might be a good idea too. How about swapping that Ring of Protection with a Ring of Anticipation (roll initiative checks twice and take the better result)?

Some dips into some other classes for better saves, Mettle, and Evasion might not be a bad idea. A one level dip into Ranger for Favored Enemy: Arcanist wouldn't hurt either.

Edit: Howard's saves are bad enough that a Greater Dispel on the Cowl of Warding + Dominate Monster would probably end her.

[noob]

Hey I found the perfect wizard a fighter can beat:
0 to all stats.
It just starts and stays dead.
It is very optimized at being dead thus it is a very optimised wizard a fighter can beat.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Hey I found the perfect wizard a fighter can beat:
0 to all stats.
It just starts and stays dead.
It is very optimized at being dead thus it is a very optimised wizard a fighter can beat.

Then the Wizard turns into a ghost...

[noob]

"Ghost" is an acquired template that can be added to any aberration, animal, dragon, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or plant. The creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature) must have a Charisma score of at least 6.

That wizard started with 0 charisma so He/She/It is very unlikely to become a ghost.
Furthermore it means that we can optimize even better that wizard at being dead and thus the fighter can beat up more optimized wizards.(I mean there is probably somewhere a counter to animate dead and create undead)
Like he have 0 to all stats and have a familiar that pulls out a sphere of annihilation out of a spell component pouch to destroy itself and the wizard.

[ColorBlindNinja]

That wizard started with 0 charisma so He/She/It is very unlikely to become a ghost.
Furthermore it means that we can optimize even better that wizard at being dead and thus the fighter can beat up more optimized wizards.(I mean there is probably somewhere a counter to animate dead and create undead)
Like he have 0 to all stats and have a familiar that pulls out a sphere of annihilation out of a spell component pouch to destroy itself and the wizard.

I was mostly joking.

Do you think that Ellen MKII stands a good chance against Jarovich?