El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

[Forum Explorer]

If a magical Tattoo on Tedd's Body that gives him the ability to cast a spell doesn't count as "his" spell as far as either Tedd or Pandora are concerned, than even if Tedd made the wand himself, using a wand to cast a spell would not count as Tedd casting the spell.

Yes, but people also don't talk like lawyers. You are focusing on semantics, and it very well may have just been poor phrasing.

[Douglas]

Yes, but people also don't talk like lawyers. You are focusing on semantics, and it very well may have just been poor phrasing.

This. Mentioning the detail of having to make a wand first during those particular lines would have been needlessly distracting, adding extra words that pull attention away from Pandora's central point about Tedd having Real Ultimate Power!!, just for the sake of precise technical accuracy that I doubt either Pandora or Tedd (or the author) cared about at that moment.

[Rater202]

I note that nobody, in the cast nor the commentary on Monday's strip comments on Arthur referring to Tedd with female pronouns.

It's probably normal enough for Elliot and Ellen that they don't question it, but Ashley was never present when mentions of Tedd tansforming or being Genderfluid were made and she knows Tedd as a boy.

Edit: And Ellen is now a Dragon.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I note that nobody, in the cast nor the commentary on Monday's strip comments on Arthur referring to Tedd with female pronouns.

OK? But they do comment on it today. There is only so much dialogue you can fit per page. Have a little patience?

GW

[Fyraltari]

So Arthur doesn't seem to know what the diamond wasmade out of.

Looks like its destruction hasn't freed Abraham.

I hope someone can turn him back to flesh.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So Arthur doesn't seem to know what the diamond wasmade out of.

I like to think that Arthur is being properly scientific about this and unwilling to give a definite answer before they have had time to do a full study of the thing. He may have his suspicions, but won't air them because he probably considers jumping the gun to conclusions to be a dangerous practice.

GW

[Fyraltari]

I like to think that Arthur is being properly scientific about this and unwilling to give a definite answer before they have had time to do a full study of the thing. He may have his suspicions, but won't air them because he probably considers jumping the gun to conclusions to be a dangerous practice.

GW

If was doubting the accuracy of Abraham's statements (he'd have good reasons, the dude is an idiot from the Middle Ages) wouldn't he say "what I am told is a scale from a very large animal" or "what is alledgedly a...".

I mean I wouldn't call accepting the maker's word on what the material are jumping to conclusions myself.

[Forum Explorer]

If was doubting the accuracy of Abraham's statements (he'd have good reasons, the dude is an idiot from the Middle Ages) wouldn't he say "what I am told is a scale from a very large animal" or "what is alledgedly a...".

I mean I wouldn't call accepting the maker's word on what the material are jumping to conclusions myself.

What appears to be a scale from a very large animal is basically the same as your two sentences.

Also when did they talk to Abraham about the composition of the Diamond?

[Fyraltari]

What appears to be a scale from a very large animal is basically the same as your two sentences.

Also when did they talk to Abraham about the composition of the Diamond?

They didn't. Which is why I am taking [they don't actually know what the Diamond is made of] as an indication that they didn't talk to Abraham recently, and so that he didn't start moving again since he was in theircare last time we saw him.

Thinking of it, we don't know how long they've been asleep. Maybe Abraham did wake up, they just haven't talked with him yet
and Arthur is just quoting their files on the thing.

Actually that sounds the most likely option.

[Rater202]

Abraham didn't create the diamond.

He enchanted an already extant crystal.

He apparently thought it was an actual diamond, hence the name.

[Calemyr]

Abraham didn't create the diamond.

He enchanted an already extant crystal.

He apparently thought it was an actual diamond, hence the name.

Adrian was still a child when the Dewitchery Diamond was enchanted, in a different region with a different language. That's a lot of time for translations errors and inopportune marketing to change its name to something more catchy and alliterative. Of course, Abraham could have called it his Cool Curse Cracking Crystal Kit back then and we'd never really know due to him magically adopting a modern lexicon.

The relic, to me, now makes a whole lot more sense than it used to. Adrian railed on the guy for not just using a diamond that size to hire a competent mage to break the curse. Now we see that the "diamond" is just a crystalline formation around a core. Magus's interpretation seems to be that Abraham just used the thing like a wand. Adding what (if we jump to conclusions could be) a dragon scale as the core of the crystal, we might even have an understanding of how it works: one last crystallized relic of the last era, whose magic wasn't stripped away last time Magic flipped the table. That would go a long way to explain why its behavior didn't fit the "tame" breed of magic EGS originally had. In fact, it's possible that curse breaking on that level wasn't even possible using "mordern" magic, and the crystal was a means to use a more wild (end extinct) brand of it that could get the job done - just in a way Abraham never expected. And he's devoted his life ever since to cleaning up the messes his creation makes.

[Rater202]

SO..Since ?ellen is apparently a Dragon Now after absorbing most of the Diamond's power, I have to wonder if the change in magic isn't going to be uses as an excuse to diversify the cast's individual power sets beyond just having their own unique spells.

Ashley and Tedd are Wizards and one or both of them might get spells from old Systems, Ellen's a dragon now... Uryuoms apparently had magic spells when on Earth the last time magic changes so Grace might get something cool... I'm not sure about the others but Elliot's superhero shifting seems decent enough and we don't even know what his Occulus spell is yet, only that it migt have somethign to do with his freindship with Tedd.

(Well, Susan and Sarah have their affinities, so they're distinct enough, and Sarah has the "Pandora helping her awaken storyline" and the two of them really aren't combatants.)

Maybe give a couple of people thematically appropriate spells from other systems? Hey, maybe under one system magic actually works like Ki use in Shonen Fighting Anime and Awakened Justin is abut to get a bunch of spells he's really gonna like.

Edit: I propose that the next thread title be "♪Dragon Dragon Dra-gon♪"

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Sigh.....

Ashley isn't going away then. Nuts.

[Douglas]

Hey, I like Ashley. Her staying is a good thing in my opinion.

[Calemyr]

Hey, I like Ashley. Her staying is a good thing in my opinion.

Ashley is very likable, I think. That said, as much as I avoid shipping as a rule, I still like Elliot/Susan. Granted, Susan has a long way to go before she reaches a point she can even consider it, but I like the way the two work. Susan needs someone to pull her away from her safe zones (such as creating and continuing their review show even after Elliot left the rental store), Elliot needs someone sensible and willing to straighten him out when he gets himself in knots about his aggressive tendencies and doubts about his own goodness. So, in that regard, Ashley is a third wheel and an impediment to anything ever happening in that direction.

On the other hand, Ashley can play that role for Elliot as well and a little bit more. She's not as... put together as Susan. She can be heroic, but she's still weak and well aware of that fact, so she's someone Elliot can protect, something he dreams of doing - quite literally. Susan would kick his ass if he saw her that way, cheerleader costume or no. And, quite frankly, Susan doesn't need a romantic partner to pull her out of her shell. Her friends have done a fantastic job of that already, including introducing her to a gentle, caring, and observant friend with no romantic interest in her. Justin, in other words. In this regard, Ashley sticking around works perfectly fine.

The really tricky part is in 6 months from now, comic time. College is the wrecking ball that destroys the cliques of high school - even friendships that don't fade are forced to take different forms. I admit to being curious what forms they will take for this group. There's a nearby college that at least Ellen and Nanase are familiar with and, though it's probably not prestigious enough for Nanase, could serve for the less ambitious of the group. I rather expect Elliot to decide to channel his bully fighter and defender tendencies into becoming part of Arthur's organization, especially given that they've already recruited Tedd, and I could certainly believe the local college has a unique path for paranormal special service, given Moperville's ties to it.

But, hey, that's still ten years away, real time. No worries.

[Rater202]

Sigh.....

Ashley isn't going away then. Nuts.

How dare you, Mittens is adorable.

In all seriousness, why would she have ever gone away?

You don't introduce a character who is absolutely perfect to get along with most of the main cast, write them well while avoiding the mary sue cliches, and then just randomly get rid of them four years later.

This storyline, in addition to wrapping up many, many, many loose threads and shattering the status quo, seems to be designed in part to intergrate Ashley into the circle.

We're done with the pre-epilog so I'm imagining that next is either gonna be later this night or the next day with everyone getting together to catch each other up and/or get permission to Tell Ashley the things she needs to know if she's gonna be hanging with this crew.

[Forum Explorer]

Ashley is very likable, I think. That said, as much as I avoid shipping as a rule, I still like Elliot/Susan. Granted, Susan has a long way to go before she reaches a point she can even consider it, but I like the way the two work. Susan needs someone to pull her away from her safe zones (such as creating and continuing their review show even after Elliot left the rental store), Elliot needs someone sensible and willing to straighten him out when he gets himself in knots about his aggressive tendencies and doubts about his own goodness. So, in that regard, Ashley is a third wheel and an impediment to anything ever happening in that direction.

I don't like Elliot/Susan, for two reasons;

1. I don't like Elliot that much. This arc has been good for him, but I still don't really like him.

2. I'm kinda hoping for Susan to fall somewhere on the Asexual spectrum.

[John Cribati]

Susan can still be asexual and have romantic desires. And also libido-type desires.

[Rater202]

Susan's orientation is "equally attracted to both male and female, has sexual desires, no desire to actually have sex with anyone."

Basically, she likes to watch and fantasize but not much else.

There was a whole strip of that. How much of that is her issues regarding physical contact and germs is currently unknown.

Also, Arthur confuses me: He's willing to let a handful of civilians die in magical incidents, but he swears to hunt down Magus because he made a girl cry. I get the feeling that his sense of morals and ethics is a bit myopic.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Also, Arthur confuses me: He's willing to let a handful of civilians die in magical incidents, but he swears to hunt down Magus because he made a girl cry. I get the feeling that his sense of morals and ethics is a bit myopic.

I'd say that he was willing to let civilians die for the greater cause of magic secrecy, but now that that objective is completely out of the window, the wellbeing of individuals is back to the top of his priority list.... but I'd need a refresher on when he expressed contempt for human lives before I'm willing to go all-in on that statement.

Grey Wolf

[Calemyr]

I don't like Elliot/Susan, for two reasons;

1. I don't like Elliot that much. This arc has been good for him, but I still don't really like him.

2. I'm kinda hoping for Susan to fall somewhere on the Asexual spectrum.

1. Well, I do like Elliot. He's a nice guy who tries to channel his aggressive streak into fighting bullies but fears this makes him a bad guy. He's also (though it hasn't recently come up), an introverted fellow who isn't comfortable around those he doesn't know well, and I can relate to that, at least.

2. I want Susan to walk away from this as happy, regardless of the outcome. Right now, she's not really happy because she hasn't found her pace. Maybe she comes to the conclusion that "None" as as viable an option as "Men", and (like Tedd), finds unexpected peace in learning "there's a word for it". Maybe she decides to take a leap of faith and finds herself where she needs to be. Maybe she gives Cohen a chance and learns the whole thing isn't really her thing, after all. As with Tedd, if she learns about herself and likes the result, that's a win.

The point is that Elliot and Susan have good chemistry and natures that suit each other. If Dan hadn't played it up so hard, it would have been a silly flight of fancy. As I said, I'm not big on shipping. Most of it silly in my book. But between Elliot having dreams of her, her showing clear signs of attraction to him, and her actively thinking of ways to seduce him (albeit in terms of what to avoid)... not to mention the repeated claims of "that's not going to happen", which is often enough a narrative blinking red light. Shive wrote it so that this was the clear path he was going, portrayed Ashley as a rival, added in Diane as a second rival, gave Susan the desire to overcome her phobias just a little... and then juked around all the framework he'd built and made Ashley the one that wins. Given the buildup before, this is a bit of narrative whiplash and a natural assumption is that she's going to be a temporary pause button to let Susan get her head together. And every time Ashley embeds herself into the plot further, it just means that payoff is delayed all the more, which is frustrating if that's the outcome you want.

There's also the fact that Ashley (at least early on) wasn't always depicted in the best way. Her shadowed appearances made her look one "baka" shy of tsundere. The Bad Tom arc made her look like bitter and jealous until the conclusion cleared it up. The mall date had her go off an interpreted slight and then preach about labels. And Nanase isn't completely wrong - she seems way too "good", though admittedly she's interested in a Boyscout even Edward Verres struggles to believe exists, and he regularly deals with magic, aliens, and faeries. All this put together can easily create a negative impression that, when paired with Susan, strongly suggests she'll either betray the group or crack under the pressure.

So... yeah. Susan, as she stands now, is still my personal preference, as I think they add a lot to each other, but I'm not pinning anything on it. If she matures and decides she just wants good friends, that's cool. If she decides Elliot is worth the risk, that's cool too. If she is content with the outcome, I will be, too.

I'd say that he was willing to let civilians die for the greater cause of magic secrecy, but now that that objective is completely out of the window, the wellbeing of individuals is back to the top of his priority list.... but I'd need a refresher on when he expressed contempt for human lives before I'm willing to go all-in on that statement.

Grey Wolf

Agreed. Arthur's an agent and a gentleman. The agent part comes first - he'll do whatever is necessary to preserve what peace and stability he can. When that dust settles, however, he's still a gentleman and he's personally offended by what Magus did.

[Rater202]

I'd say that he was willing to let civilians die for the greater cause of magic secrecy, but now that that objective is completely out of the window, the wellbeing of individuals is back to the top of his priority list.... but I'd need a refresher on when he expressed contempt for human lives before I'm willing to go all-in on that statement.

Grey Wolf

New and Old Flames, during the Dragon Attack.

He doesn't so much show concept for civilian life as much as state that occasional casualties won't hamper their goals to explain why he's not mobalizing a task force to deal with the torcanis draco.

[JeenLeen]

The really tricky part is in 6 months from now, comic time. College is the wrecking ball that destroys the cliques of high school - even friendships that don't fade are forced to take different forms. I admit to being curious what forms they will take for this group. There's a nearby college that at least Ellen and Nanase are familiar with and, though it's probably not prestigious enough for Nanase, could serve for the less ambitious of the group. I rather expect Elliot to decide to channel his bully fighter and defender tendencies into becoming part of Arthur's organization, especially given that they've already recruited Tedd, and I could certainly believe the local college has a unique path for paranormal special service, given Moperville's ties to it.

But, hey, that's still ten years away, real time. No worries.

I do imagine that sharing bonds of combat will let this group of friends survive more than most high school cliques. Plus the whole "this is a comic telling a story" meaning that there's a higher probability of them staying in contact than in real life.

Also, really liking the idea of Elliot becoming a professional government agent. He might be a bit too idealistic for it, but I reckon they know how to place and channel people like that, from other awakened agents. When Elliot started freaking out talking to Ashley about college/career, my mind instantly jumped to 'professional superhero/government agent'. I'm actually somewhat surprised Mr. Verres and Elliot's parents haven't talked to him about it. (Elliot's parents are friends with Tedd's dad, right? I thought that was established somewhere, though I guess it's possible there're friends just in that they met each other after their kids met and so aren't close friends. (I like the idea of Elliot's parents' nonchalance about the supernatural being in part due to being used to it.))''

If Nanase finds out the truth about her aunt and mother, I can see her ditching college and going professional monster hunter. Not government agent, probably, but vigilante. (Also looking forward to sometime seeing Nanase's mom in action. I'm assuming she's awakened.)

[Calemyr]

I do imagine that sharing bonds of combat will let this group of friends survive more than most high school cliques. Plus the whole "this is a comic telling a story" meaning that there's a higher probability of them staying in contact than in real life.

Also, really liking the idea of Elliot becoming a professional government agent. He might be a bit too idealistic for it, but I reckon they know how to place and channel people like that, from other awakened agents. When Elliot started freaking out talking to Ashley about college/career, my mind instantly jumped to 'professional superhero/government agent'. I'm actually somewhat surprised Mr. Verres and Elliot's parents haven't talked to him about it. (Elliot's parents are friends with Tedd's dad, right? I thought that was established somewhere, though I guess it's possible there're friends just in that they met each other after their kids met and so aren't close friends. (I like the idea of Elliot's parents' nonchalance about the supernatural being in part due to being used to it.))''

If Nanase finds out the truth about her aunt and mother, I can see her ditching college and going professional monster hunter. Not government agent, probably, but vigilante. (Also looking forward to sometime seeing Nanase's mom in action. I'm assuming she's awakened.)

She's a wizard with a high opinion of her bloodline and her skills, and the flashback that showed her fight with Tengu had her surrounded by glowing, floating swords. I'd say she's awakened.

[Rater202]

That was Noriko. Tedd's and Van's mom.

We're talking about Nanase's mom, Mrs. Kitsune.

[Fyraltari]

Maybe she gives Cohen a chance

Who's Cohen again?
Also, I agree with everything you've said in that post.

About the last comic, I think pizza-girl missing room 211 is an indication that Magus put some kind of spell on his room to avoid detection.

[tyckspoon]

Who's Cohen again?
Also, I agree with everything you've said in that post.

About the last comic, I think pizza-girl missing room 211 is an indication that Magus put some kind of spell on his room to avoid detection.

The Student Council guy with the fuzzy hair, asked Susan out back around the time of the Moperville High uniform thing. I think. Name of Matt? I don't think he's shown up in the comic much since.

[Vinyadan]

About making a young girl cry: he's got a daughter, doesn't he? http://www.egscomics.com/comic/sister3-287

[Forum Explorer]

Susan's orientation is "equally attracted to both male and female, has sexual desires, no desire to actually have sex with anyone."

Basically, she likes to watch and fantasize but not much else.

There was a whole strip of that. How much of that is her issues regarding physical contact and germs is currently unknown.

Sure, and if she stays that way, I'd say that she'd fall under the asexual spectrum pretty solidly.

[Vinyadan]

BTW, I currently like Ashely. I didn't like her earlier, but now she's gone through her ordeal and is an actual character, and not just some love interest with an odd fetish. I would be OK if the comic only dealt with Tedd and her discovering magic. Unfortunately, there are way too many characters: we still have Sarah's date and Justin's date... And Noah, who I guess is hinted to be a chimera.