Living spells?

[ExLibrisMortis]

I like living antimagic field, deeper darkness, Evard's black tentacles, and major image (deep-sea kraken).

[unseenmage]

Not sure how. Living Spell pretty much negates the advantage of large-area, multitargeted spell, which is more or less the reason to develops war spells.

It was my understanding that summons still made decent War Spells and that 25 per CL multiplier is pretty nasty.
If my understanding was in error then yeah, not as cool.

Edit: On another note, Mineralize Warrior woukd be a nasty Living Spell.
Awaken, Incarnate Construct, and Greater Humanoid Essence would be niche but cool too.

[Geigan]

Afroakuma's excellent Vote Up a Villain series included a Living Spell of Guards and Wards. It's homebrew so there's a bit of artistic license taken with it obviously, but I'd be curious if anyone's actually used it in a campaign. It sounds hilarious if used appropriately.

[ExLibrisMortis]

It was my understanding that summons still made decent War Spells and that 25 per CL multiplier is pretty nasty.
If my understanding was in error then yeah, not as cool.

Edit: On another note, Mineralize Warrior woukd be a nasty Living Spell.
Awaken, Incarnate Construct, and Greater Humanoid Essence would be niche but cool too.

For reference:

"Living spell" is an unusual template, in that it is applied to an arcane or divine spell effect (or in some cases, a group of spell effects) and not a creature. The characteristics of a living spell are determined by the nature of the spell(s), including the caster level of the spells. The template can be applied to any spell that creates an area or effect (not targeted spells), but not a spell whose effect is already a creature (such as a summon monster spell).

Living spell size is determined by caster level; they do not grow larger than Huge. Creatures hit/engulfed by a living spell are subject to the spell effect, as if they were within the area - no matter how large that area is. All in all, war spells don't do much to living spells: the increased range results in increased speed, and the increased level adds some +1s here and there.

[unseenmage]

For reference:

Living spell size is determined by caster level; they do not grow larger than Huge. Creatures hit/engulfed by a living spell are subject to the spell effect, as if they were within the area - no matter how large that area is. All in all, war spells don't do much to living spells: the increased range results in increased speed, and the increased level adds some +1s here and there.

I stand corrected.
Also pleased to see at least one place where War Spells arent just structly better than their regular counterparts.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Also pleased to see at least one place where War Spells arent just structly better than their regular counterparts.

While I understand your sentiment, I am also amused that you have to go as far as living spells to find such a place. They're not exactly balanced!*



I once designed some living spells as guards, the idea being that a living orb of fire + major image (group of fiery warriors) would act as a hallway-filling guard squad that you can't Tumble or sneak past. With the Sentry Ooze template, they were remarkably charismatic, but other than that, you have trouble with the lack of limbs, for instance.




*Probably a calculated risk; it's not like you could reasonably design a template that assigns a fair CR to every spell in the book.

[Gildedragon]

A hilarious one would be a living spell of defenestrating sphere... Or, if allowed, baleful transposition

Glitterdust living spell would be a PAIN

Delayed blast fireballs: Slam, nothing happens for a couple rounds, then WHAM!

[Afgncaap5]

Glitterdust living spell would be a PAIN

Canonically, one of those is statted up and then improved upon in Monster Manual 3. Glitterfire: a Glitterdust spell and Fireball spell. You're burned alive, blinded, simply can't hide from anything, and you look *glorious* while it happens.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Blood Snow, Frostburn

CR 3 (spell level 2, caster level 3) or CR 5 (spell level 3 sorcerer/wizard, caster level 5)

Spell Effect: Fort DC 13 (or 14) or take 1d2 Con drain and become nauseated for 3 (or 5) rounds.

Get engulfed, fail the save, you can't even try to escape for at least three rounds and subsequent saves are cumulatively penalized each time you fail one.


Murderous Mist, Spell Compendium

CR 7 (spell level 4, caster level 7)

Spell Effect: 2d6 damage and permanently (instantaneously) blinded, Reflex DC 16 for half damage and no blindness.

Characters typically won't have Remove Blindness/Deafness prepared, or have items that can remove an undispellable permanently blinded effect. Just one character failing the save means the party can't proceed and will need to rest to get the right spell prepared to fix it. A Strand of Prayer Beads: Bead of Healing effect is only 9,000 gp, and well worth having on hand for situations like this.


Ray of Stupidity, Spell Compendium

CR 3 (spell level 2, caster level 3)

Spell Effect: 1d4+1 intelligence damage, no saving throw. Guaranteed to one-shot any animal, and only takes a few hits to take down less intelligent opponents.

Add multiple instances of Ray of Stupidity for +1 CR each, so a Living Ray of Stupidity x5 is CR 7 and deals 5d4+5 Int damage per hit. It's still only medium size and 3 HD, but put it in a magically dark or smoky room or in murky water where PCs can't see it before hit gets an attack, and it's almost guaranteed to take someone out in a single hit. Plus you can put a bunch of these under the control of a Cleric with the Ooze domain and he's got a bunch of super-dangerous mooks that he can drop from the ceiling or otherwise catch the party by surprise with.

[Buufreak]

Alright, had some time to think. How helpful would it be to keep a living heal mass as a pet? It has the aoe part covered, and at the low cost of slam damage, you get at least 170 hp.

[Inevitability]

Alright, had some time to think. How helpful would it be to keep a living heal mass as a pet? It has the aoe part covered, and at the low cost of slam damage, you get at least 170 hp.

Out of combat, it's a cheaper Wand of Lesser Vigor. In combat, it's very good (assuming you, like most people, play a game where damage is a relevant way to kill stuff), though I guess there's the danger of the ooze getting killed by a stray attack. After all, its AC and saving throws will probably be low.

[Jay R]

1. Where are the rules for a living spell found?

2. Without any knowledge of the rules except from skimming this thread, it seems that shadow conjuration and greater shadow conjuration would create basically a never-ending stampede of creatures.

[Waker]

No one has brought it up yet, but there is a PrC for making and controlling living spells. Spell Sovereign from Dragon 357.

[ben-zayb]

Alright, had some time to think. How helpful would it be to keep a living heal mass as a pet? It has the aoe part covered, and at the low cost of slam damage, you get at least 170 hp.

IIRC Mass Heal and Mass Lesser Vigor are both multi targeted, which unfortunately disqualify them

[DrMotives]

1. Where are the rules for a living spell found?

Monster Manual 3.

[Necroticplague]

IIRC Mass Heal and Mass Lesser Vigor are both multi targeted, which unfortunately disqualify them

Indeed. Living Spell works with Area and Effect spells (where the effect isn't already a creature). Those are both Target spells. Multiple targets, but still Targets.

[Buufreak]

Indeed. Living Spell works with Area and Effect spells (where the effect isn't already a creature). Those are both Target spells. Multiple targets, but still Targets.

*insert your favorite explitive here*

I will come up with a winner. It's going to be awesome, with black jack, and...

[danielxcutter]

*insert your favorite explitive here*

I will come up with a winner. It's going to be awesome, with black jack, and...

I don't get the joke, tbh.

[Waker]

I don't get the joke, tbh.

He's quoting Bender from Futurama.

[danielxcutter]

He's quoting Bender from Futurama.

Me

#when you're enough of a nerd to play TRPGs but you aren't enough of one to get all the references

[ben-zayb]

Me

#when you're enough of a nerd to play TRPGs but you aren't enough of one to get all the references

There's just too many geekdoms to get into for just one lifetime.

[Necroticplague]

Honestly, the restrictions on Living Spells actually make them a lot harder to adjucate. While it works easily enough for debuffs and blasting spells, things start getting...weird when you move into most BFC and utility spells.

Like Web and Black Tentacles: does it effect the square they're in, making it unsafe for others, or does it basically disappear once they escape it? Can't make heads or tails of how Living Wall of Stone (or similar) works, since you can't really be 'in' it's effect, unless you're ethereal or incorporeal (I guess Stone Glide also works).

If it was the opposite, and restricted to only targeted, this would be a lot cleaner to work out.

[unseenmage]

After a cursory search here's a list of spells I thought would be neat to adjudicate. One assumes that for many of these the living spell would act much like a magic trap wherein each iteration of the contained spell has the same base choices made for it; Living Gate (Arborea) sends victims to Arborea with every slam and Living Major Creation always makes the same substance etc.

Black Sand (Sandstorm)
Create Water + Water to Acid (Stormwrack)
Energy Transformation Field (Spell Compendium), Enveloping Cocoon (Complete Divine), Spell Engine (Magic of Faerun) (How would one decide on the attached spell? Possible workaround to making Living Spells cast spells normally disallowed for Living Spells?)
Gate (can't make creatures but might create the gateway or try to effectively Plane Shift victims?)
Genesis
Iceberg (Frostburn) (does it create the additional icebergs and snowdrift zone too?)
Mage’s Disjunction
Major Creation, Minor Creation, True Creation (am thinking mostly for the creation of poisons or Lichbriar)
Precipitate Breach & Precipitate Complete Breach (Planar Handbook)
Reality Maelstrom (Manual of the Planes)
Reverse Gravity
Slime Hurl (Champions of Ruin)
Slime Wave (Complete Divine)
‘Symbol of …’ spells
Teleportation Circle
Unseen Crafter (Races of Eberron), Unseen Servant, Mass Unseen Servant (Races of Destiny) (IIRC explicitly do not create creatures)
‘Wall of …’ spells
Were-Doom (Book of Vile Darkness)
‘Zone of …’ spells

Edit: Strangely there were a lot of 'Ray of ...' spells on the list too, but one would've thought those to be targetted spells.

[Tiri]

Indeed. Living Spell works with Area and Effect spells (where the effect isn't already a creature). Those are both Target spells. Multiple targets, but still Targets.

Maybe a Living Righteous Burst, then. It heals a pitiful 1d8+CL HP per slam, but it does heal.

[Psyren]

Living Apocalypse from the Sky sounds cool. At CL 20, it has a radius of 200 miles, or a diameter of 400 miles. The question becomes does it only take a day to bring into existence and then does damage every round, or does it only explode damage once a day?

Its size is dependent on the CL of the spell actually, and tops out at Huge. So no 100+ mile LS for you.

Honestly, the restrictions on Living Spells actually make them a lot harder to adjucate. While it works easily enough for debuffs and blasting spells, things start getting...weird when you move into most BFC and utility spells.

Like Web and Black Tentacles: does it effect the square they're in, making it unsafe for others, or does it basically disappear once they escape it? Can't make heads or tails of how Living Wall of Stone (or similar) works, since you can't really be 'in' it's effect, unless you're ethereal or incorporeal (I guess Stone Glide also works).

If it was the opposite, and restricted to only targeted, this would be a lot cleaner to work out.

They created several sample LS you can use as a guideline; one of them is actually Living Web, so enjoy.

[Tainted_Scholar]

I'm pretty sure I can create a Living Genesis, but what on earth would it do?

[unseenmage]

I'm pretty sure I can create a Living Genesis, but what on earth would it do?

Nothing if it's not on the Ethereal from what I'm reading. Even then, since it doesnt have an effect on a character it might still do nothing.

[Buufreak]

Nothing if it's not on the Ethereal from what I'm reading. Even then, since it doesnt have an effect on a character it might still do nothing.

Could it turn someone into a living plane? This is what I choose to believe it does. Somewhat like a certain robot with a small meteorite-based civilization on his back...

[Necroticplague]

Well, the exact text of Living Spell's relevant ability is "as if it were within the area or effect of the spell itself". Since, in this case, the 'effect' is a demiplane, it translates to 'as if you were within a demiplane'. On one hand, that means Living Genesis doesn't actually create demiplanes on it's own. On the other, it also means it's not reliant on being on the Ethereal (since it's as if you are standing there). On a third hand, it also means it's not exactly well-defined what being hit does. Presumably, it exposes you to some planar traits/environment for a short moment. While being Engulfed continually exposes to the environment/traits.

Of course, a variant that makes a bit more sense would be that the Demiplane is actually 'inside' the living spell, so anyone engulfed or slammed by it gets transported to the demiplane within. Thus, making for one of the most excessively luxurious forms of transport available. Not fast and it doesn't fly, but quite a suite of amenities

[ColorBlindNinja]

Well, the exact text of Living Spell's relevant ability is "as if it were within the area or effect of the spell itself". Since, in this case, the 'effect' is a demiplane, it translates to 'as if you were within a demiplane'. On one hand, that means Living Genesis doesn't actually create demiplanes on it's own. On the other, it also means it's not reliant on being on the Ethereal (since it's as if you are standing there). On a third hand, it also means it's not exactly well-defined what being hit does. Presumably, it exposes you to some planar traits/environment for a short moment. While being Engulfed continually exposes to the environment/traits.

This tells me that the designers only intended Living Spell to be used on blasting spells.

Of course, a variant that makes a bit more sense would be that the Demiplane is actually 'inside' the living spell, so anyone engulfed or slammed by it gets transported to the demiplane within. Thus, making for one of the most excessively luxurious forms of transport available. Not fast and it doesn't fly, but quite a suite of amenities

I guess that might work as a trap of some sort. The Manual Planes says that you can cut your demiplane off from the Astral Plane, preventing people from escaping with anything except Wish.