Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

[Hamste]

It says steal so I guess you can accidentally break comboes with death grip.

[Zevox]

It says steal so I guess you can accidentally break comboes with death grip.

Sure, in the same way Gnomish Vampire can: by lucking out big time. And in full-blown Control v Control that gets to fatigue having stolen a card might end up mattering, perhaps. But most of the time, it's a more expensive Mind Visions that pulls from the deck instead of the hand and only hits minions.

[Hamste]

It specifically hits minions though, so it is more likely to hit say a gadgetzan vs miracle rogue, an Antonidas vs freeze mage or a Lyra vs a spell priest. It is still mostly luck but more likely than discarding the top.

[Zevox]

It specifically hits minions though, so it is more likely to hit say a gadgetzan vs miracle rogue, an Antonidas vs freeze mage or a Lyra vs a spell priest. It is still mostly luck but more likely than discarding the top.

I suppose that's true, but I don't think that helps it that much. Against specifically Freeze Mage I suppose there's few enough minions that pulling either Antonidas or Alexstraza isn't a bad chance, if they haven't drawn them yet, but otherwise, I wouldn't expect enough of a chance of something like that happening for it to be a big deal.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So I was talking with a friend about the old Chansey Priest that used Spawn of Shadows + hero power resets, Raza, and Garrison Commander to nuke someone down to 0 health...and with the new Anduin, it's going to be very silly in Wild.

You just have to have played Raza and Anduin previously. Then...

Hero Power (0) 2 damage total
Garrison Commander (2)
Hero Power x2 (0) 6 damage total
Spawn of Shadows (4)
Hero Power x2 (0) 18 damage total
{any card} (4 or less)
Hero Power x2 (0) 30 damage total

That's a pretty sweet combo, if you ask me. The best part is that Spawn of Shadows only triggers four times, so as long as you aren't at 16 health or less, you still live.

[Zevox]

So, something has occurred to me, looking at the newly-revealed cards again. Skelemancer, that weird little 2/2 for 5 with the deathrattle that summons an 8/8 if it dies on your opponent's turn? I think that's going to be standard in Paladin decks.

Because it's a 5 mana minion that your opponent doesn't want to kill, which makes it the perfect card to play Spikeridge Steed on.

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, alright then, the remaining cards:

Spoiler: Thoughts

Show

Grim Necromancer: Arena card. I don't think anyone else will want this.
Exploding Bloatbat: Delayed consecration is probably still decent, especially with the card that triggers deathrattles. Could be ok.
Tuskarr Fisherman: Fine for arena, just as a 2 mana 2/3. Spell damage might matter sometimes, but mostly that's what it'll be.
Grave Shambler: Great for Rogue arenas. Probably not strong enough for constructed.
Acherus Veteran: Well, that's a battlecry, so at least there's some immediate impact. Maybe aggro decks would use it as a replacement for Abusive Sergeant, since the attack buff is permanent?
Furnacefire Colossus: Weird. This could be really huge, but it's still a big single target, so it's probably not worth the cost.
Skelemancer: I dub thee Sir Eggington. Could be good. EDIT: as Zevox points out, this is great for Paladin because it comes out on 5, then next turn you steed it. And now it's great.
Deathaxe Punisher: This is probably good if it hits exactly Wickerflame. Might be ok in Arena, if you have the deck to support it.
Strongshell Scavenger: I think that for 1 less mana, this would be insane. As is, it's probably not QUITE good enough, though with the taunt summon spell I could see it.
Gnash: Smaller version of bite. Basically exactly the same as Claw+Hero Power, and claw sees no play.
Doomerang: That's pretty cool. I wonder if this means we'll see more Perdition's Blade, since that's basically the best weapon to use this with.
Avalanche: Weird pseudo-AOE. Doesn't seem awful, but might be a bit too awkward to use.
Tainted Zealot: Eh, I'd rather have the card draw from Thalnos. I guess it's ok, though.
Keening Banshee: Arena card. Drawback's not worth it in constructed.
Deadscale Knight: Yeah, bad.
Vryghoul: Run the eggnapper instead.
Bone Baron: That's not bad for Arena. Helps with combos, too.
Wretched Tiller: Weird, and probably bad.
Drakkari Enchanter: Combo piece. Pretty good if you can get a Ragnaros to stick. Either one, really.
Wicked Skeleton: I think this needs to cost less to be any good.
Bloodworm: This really needs something else to be playable. Does allow the Hunter Death Knight to get Lifesteal beasts, though.
Death Revenant: Not good enough. Mostly too conditional.
Hyldnir Frostrider: Actually good for Arena, since it's a 3 mana 4/4. Maybe good with the new shaman cards, but probably not.
Arfus: Some of the Death Knights are good enough on their own, but some of them need to be built around. This isn't terrible, but I don't think it's good, either. Fun, though. It has been pointed out since I started this post that the death knight cards are Ysera-esque uncollectible cards. That makes this better.
Spellweaver: +2 mana for +1 spell damage over Ogre Mage. Bad.
Toxic Arrow: Does Hunter have anything that likes being damaged? I don't think it does. This is probably not good, but it's ok just as removal.
Night Howler: Eh, not good.
Venomancer: Ok, and pretty good in Arena.
Arrogant Crusader: Comparable to piloted shredder, though I think worse. Maybe worse enough to never get used. Good for Arena, though.
Bloodreaver Gul’dan: Kind of a cool way to fill the board back up. Funny enough, I think zoolock would run this. You're not actually sad to pick up a bunch of incidentaly things, and you could run Doomguard too, since as long as you play it before you draw this there's no downside. Hero power is also crazy good.
Dark Conviction: Not as good as Keeper of Uldaman, but that card was insane. This is still decent, as paladin lacks ways to kill single big targets.
Spectral Pillager: I think this is too hard to make huge, and rogue would probably rather have auctioneer at 6 to draw cards. Maybe a one-off.
The Lich King: Ironbark Protector with value upside. I think you take this in Arena for sure, but for constructed it's probably fun but too slow.could be viable. Ysera is viable.
Scourgelord Garrosh: This card is really, really good. The weapon is insane and the hero power is whirlwind on a stick. Can confidently say that this will absolutely get played.

So, that's everything then. Since we did it last time for quests, how's everyone thinking about the various Death Knights? Honestly, I find myself iffy and hedging on a lot of them.

Sure, here's mine:

Druid: Maybe. The battlecry options are decent and the hero power is solid.
Hunter: Yes, if midrange hunter works at all.
Mage: Maybe, leaning yes. Elemental mage is reasonably solid, and this gives it staying power and a finisher.
Paladin: Yes. Weapon is great, hero power is good.
Priest: Maybe, leaning yes. Counters jade druid, kills big stuff and gets you a good hero power.
Rogue: I think yes, but I'm not really sure. The best use I can think of it is to get more eviscerates. Is that good enough?
Shaman: Big yes. Evolve shaman is already good, this makes it better.
Warlock: Maybe, if warlock is good. Hero power is one of the best ones on offer, but I don't know if that's enough considering you can't use it the turn you play this. This is the one I'm least optimistic about.
Warrior: Absolutely. Card is insane, and I think there's room for both quest warrior and this.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Thoughts on the heroes:

Druid: A little reactive, but the poisonous minions demand a response from a big, buffed-up board, while the taunts can stem off aggro in time for you to start using face and other removal. There's strong potential here, and the hero power is pretty good long-term. My only concern is that this feels like a more Classic Druid, which is currently sans a solid win condition (no Force/Savage combo), although there's potential for a bunch of 1/5s into Savage Roar.

Hunter: The second-earliest DK to drop, but it's also a very value-oriented power, and I don't know if Hunter has enough AoE or healing to make it work, even with the revealed Lifesteal beast and Exploding Bloatbat. (Interestingly, both of those work with Zombeast, and Stonetusk Boar + Exploding Bloatbat is a SWEET AoE combo.)

Mage: The only problem is that she doesn't immediately do anything, but I'm hopeful that we can see a grinder Mage come out of this. If you have some control of the game (Frost Nova + Doomsayer on Turn 8), this lets you easily stabilize from any deficit. Over time, this hero is ridiculous.

Paladin: Terrifying, will make weapon hate even more prevalent. Great way to finish out games and to stabilize, and his hero power lets him continue to build up a board and threaten worse.

Priest: Very strong. Has one of the best lategame powers in the game, and you can use it more than once per turn, usually. Good against Jade, and as long as you aren't overwhelmed by cheap minions (Dragonfire Potion, anyone?), you should be fine. Strong even if you're not trying for a Raza combo.

Rogue: Very interesting. Definitely slow for Rogue, but also lets you make up for not having duplicates of certain cards in your combo hand. Also lets you dig for combo pieces with double Mimic Pod. The stealth is a potent effect, and makes you untouchable for a turn, even against a Felfire Potion. I'll agree that it's slow for a Miracle deck, but the extra consistency provided could make up for it, along with buying you an additional turn to get your combo off. (Unfortunately, Skulking Geist will do a number on burst combo-oriented Miracle Rogues.)

Shaman: Aggressive and proactive. Will probably be the core of a scary midrange flood/Jade deck that lets you trade minions and then evolve them. Doesn't even necessarily need Evolve itself.

Warlock: Beautiful control card. Hands-down the best Control power we've seen in the game yet--it brings inevitability, lets you deal damage to minions, and heals you all the while. The battlecry is also very strong; play a couple of Voidwalkers to act as speedbumps, and then swing the board next turn with the minions you summoned. Doesn't have to be the best-case scenario for the Demons, just some big beefy ones that add board presence, like Abyssal Enforcer. Despicable Dreadlord will also be a sweet pull for this. 10 mana for two 1/3 taunts, two 5/4s and a double Maelstrom Portal, and two 6/6s is really really good, even without the armor or the upgraded hero power.

Warrior: Strong; that's a lot of removal. Too slow for Tempo Warrior, though, and Control Warrior really misses the hero power. Not sure where they're going with Bladestorm, tbh.

Definite Winners: Warlock, Shaman, Paladin
Solid: Druid, Priest, Mage
Uncertain: Rogue, Warrior, Hunter

[Mando Knight]

Warrior: Strong; that's a lot of removal. Too slow for Tempo Warrior, though, and Control Warrior really misses the hero power. Not sure where they're going with Bladestorm, tbh.

Bladestorm is literally a 2 mana Whirlwind for no additional card cost, and is meant to be used everywhere that Whirlwind is used, but without the need to have it in hand to play a topdecked Enrage-type minion. And because it's your hero power, you'll also be able to use it to clear any x/1 minions (such as many tokens) without waiting to check whether you need to hold onto the effect for a better time.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Bladestorm is literally a 2 mana Whirlwind for no additional card cost, and is meant to be used everywhere that Whirlwind is used, but without the need to have it in hand to play a topdecked Enrage-type minion. And because it's your hero power, you'll also be able to use it to clear any x/1 minions (such as many tokens) without waiting to check whether you need to hold onto the effect for a better time.

My main issue is that Whirlwind isn't that useful by Turn 9 or so, unless you're running a Patron deck, which you probably aren't.

[Destro_Yersul]

on the other hand, you could go into wild and use the hero power to make everyone get in here.

[Gandariel]

Well, here's my final and complete review!

Spoiler: Gandariel's review!

Show

Death stalker rexxar: the hero power is actually a downgrade. Hunter hero power is the best lategame. Don't think it'll see play.
Chill blade champion: bad.
Spirit Lash: Good, or at least "has a lot of potential"
Plague Scientist: bad. Too many requirements for an effect that is worse than Cold blood
Shallow Gravedigger: meh. Maybe better than loot Hoarder for Nzoth decks
Prince Keleseth: maybe sees play in quest Hunter, nowhere else IMO.
Ticking abomination: bad.
Ice Breaker: trash. Even if they print other good freeze cards, I don't see this being played.
Prince Taldaram: it's... Not a very strong effect. Not good.
Mountainfire Armour: "decent", which means no competitive play. But nice card!
Blood Razor: good! I think we'll see this card. Patron warrior is out of Standard, but maybe we'll get more damaged interactions (and Acolyte Armorsmith etc are still here)
Blood-Queen Lana'thel: absolutely terrible trash.
Nerubian Unraveller: even worse than Blood queen
Professor Putricide: This will follow the trend of Princess huhuran and be bad and see zero play.
Ghastly Conjurer: probably bad? There's maybe some potential for it, but I'm doubtful.
Vampiric poison : terrible.
Sindragosa : good card! I'd say better than Medivh (which is played), so I expect this to see play in control mage.
Bring It On!: Strong in control warrior, good combo with a bunch of cards. Liking this new design direction with cards like this or Dirty rat.
Coldwraith: Potentially good, obviously, but the amount of freeze effects you'd need for this to be consistent... Not sure.
Voodoo Hexer: Bad. Not nearly good enough to enable icebreaker. Both of these cards are the "weak" side to a 2-card combo, and they haven't put in the "good" card yet.
Bearshark: Actually kind of strong. If it were a 3/4 it would be completely busted just for the Houndmaster synergy
Hadronox: Probably too slow.
Abomination Archer: Weaker than Highmane, weaker than Cairne. Not gonna see play.
Fatespinner: Neat new mechanic, super weak card.
Bolvar Sick artwork, card is probably weak. Significant stats (and even then, only when supported) but no immediate board impact.
Light's Sorrow: Needs 2 ticks to become good, i'm not certain it will be strong enough. Obviously trash unless a specific bubble deck exists and is good enough. I don't think this card, by itself, enables the deck (like Drakonid Operative did for Priest, or like Menagerie Warden tried to do for Druid),
Corpsetaker: I think i'd put him in a Paladin deck with all keywords except for Taunt. In that instance it looks good, otherwise... still decent, but maybe not top tier.
Bonemare: Significant Arena card, not much else to say. Hilariously enough, it's much better than Don Han'Cho.
sanguine reveler : adds consistency to zoo, but it's clearly weaker than the 4/4 pterodax. I'm moderately positive about this.
animated Bersekrer: interesting. Can't say much else about it, as it 100% depends on the deck this will be in. Maybe Sudden Genesis will finally be a thing !
Howling Commander: In a deck which has only Tirion, this is good. In a deck that has a ton of bubbles... It's essentially a "Battlecry, draw a card", which is kinda unimpressive.
Moorabi: interesting and fun mechanic, I have serious doubts that freeze shaman will see play.
Prince Valanar: Uh.. I mean it's fine, but really nothing impressive. I don't think I'd auto include him in all decks even if he had no restriction.
I guess Quest Hunter will have all 3 princes, the quest, and 26 1-drops?
Frost Lich jaina : as I said, not impressed. It takes a LOT of time to get going, and it doesn't provide a win condition other than fatigue.
Cryostasis : other than synergy with the legend, it's... OK? The best use is probably to put it on a Taunter to get some immediate value, but... eh, Feels very slow.
Dead man's Hand : interesting! Obviously only works in a super controlly warrior, which might or might not be meta.
Venomstrike trap: solid secret, I'd rank him on par with Cat trick
Shdowblade: eh, kind of mediocre weapon. Not awful, but nothing to write home about.
defile: apparently Dreadsteeds are getting nerfed to "deathrattle: summon a steed at the end of turn", but Patrons are getting a hard cap programmed in? In any case, interesting card with a solid power level. I think this will see play. I even think this is better than Demonwrath.
Eternal Servitude: Resurrect priest never really broke any records, but this card is probably on par in terms of power level. Nothing super strong either way.
Doomed apprentice: Unless miracle rogue is super hyper mega dominating, I really don't see anyone throwing this card in in the hopes of messing up the enemy curve. Not awful, but not constructed level.
Spreading Plague: neat idea, card looks too weak
Snow flipper penguin: I don't see it in a constructed deck, but cute
Ice Walker: Compared to fallen hero, it's better in the lategame, but it suffers from being pretty much dead weight before turn 7-8ish: 4 mana for a freeze effect is very mediocre.
Meat Wagon: Super weak. I mean yes, attack buffs into Malygos combo wombo, but seriously, i don't see this seeing any serious play.
Necrotic Geist: Very weak, even for Arena
Cobalt Scalebane: Decent arena card, nothing else to say.
Gnomish Vampire: Super weird. Why mill in warlock? why such a direct mill effect?
The card is very weak, it just raises a lot of questions.
Valkyr Soulclaimer: Nice card for enrage warrior. Note that this card needs 2ish activators to become good, as one activation doesn't mean that much value (a 1/3 and a 2/2? Kinda mediocre. I can have Cloaked Huntress or Kabal Talonpriest for that mana cost)
Stitched Tracker: Choosing the minion definitely has some value. I... kind of feel like i'd prefer to run Tracking than this (especially since it has no beast tag), and Tracking isn't even played...
arch bishop benedictus: Fun, but ultimately not good. He is a 1 card win condition so I don't wanna call it useless.
Mindbreaker: not constructed worthy
Phantom Freebooter: not impressive at all, maybe slightly better than Naga Corsair so it will replace it.
Sunborn Valkyr : arena fodder
Embrace Darkness: Too limited in application and targets to be good
Crypt lord:Bad
Shaman death Knight: interesting, but I don't think it's good. It's a value card for a deck that wants to close the game quickly. The double evolve is really good,and probably almost worth the 5 mana on its own.I'll call it decent but not OP
Righteous Defender : Good. Finally Paladin has something better than Argent squire
Tomb lurker: I'll say bad, because these mediocre draw a card things are better when they're cheap. I'll take the 3 mana version, and skip on this.
Runeforge Haunter : 1 extra durability is OK, card is decent but I don't think it fits competitive decks
Corpse Widow: very aggressively statted. This is a really strong card. I think this has a chance to see play
Corpse Raiser : OK effect, maybe good in Evolve Shaman?
Obsidian Statue : pretty good. It has pretty much everything you could ask for in a 9 cost card. Good to res too.
Devour Mind : Bad
Glacial Misteries: Also bad. By the time you play it it's gonna hit maybe 3 secrets, which is underwhelming.
Simulacrum : very high cost to avoid super combos, so this will probably only see play in Exodia or other similar decks.
Brrrrloc: Awesome name, mediocre card. I guess you throw him in if you really want to make your shaman legend deck
Treachery: I'm sad that Doomsayer exists, otherwise this could have been much cheaper (such as costing 1 and drawing you a card). Too expensive for literally every other card (even Bomb Squad. For 3 mana you want to be doing more than this)
Rogue DK : Good! I really think this has potential. It's basically an ice block + a permanent Chromaggus. You probably close out the game on the next turn, but the "long term" effect is significant too. Really good card.
Ultimate Infestation: Holy cow. Wow. Yeah, Ramp Druid is back. Jade is an interesting issue, as jade decks don't really *need* this card and may just skip it, but this card alone may revive classic Ramp Druid
Desperate Resistance : Bad.
Skulking Geist Awful design. Bad Blizzard! Maybe this doesn't even see play, but it still pisses me off.
Shadow Ascendant: Not bad, probably not good enough for constructed, though.
Ice Fishing: Great card for murloc shaman. Not much else to say :P
Roll the Bones: Neat card, not sure if Deathrattle rogue will exist. They haven't really been giving them good tools lately...
Drakkari Defender: Probably too weak. 3 overload on turn 3 is really heavy.
Fallen Sun Cleric: Arena card (possibly fits in Zoo? eh)
Acolyte of Agony: Bit too weak IMO
Shadowreaper Anduin: Conceptually, good card. it's a defensive, lategame effect that setups a value ability later, or even an OTK combo. I think this one has potential: It all depends on how much trash cards you need to put in in order to make the hero power do broken things (burgly bully?)
Lilian Voss: I want to say weak, it's kind of rare that you don't want the cards you put in your own deck. Pretty sure this one is bad
Unwilling Sacrifice: Stupid doomsayer. If it weren't for him, this card would be *much* cheaper. As it stands, it *had* to be priced to be OK with Doomsayer, and will inevitably be bad with whatever other synergy card they print
Frost clone: Nice card! i like this! Not something you just throw in every deck, and it's much weaker than Duplicate, but neat
Play Dead: Will Blizzard finally find a good price point for this effect? I think this is not better than the 3 mana dude they printed last time, so...
Fluffy felbeast: Looks veeery weak.
Deathspeaker: Arena card
Rattlin Rascal: As i said, the combo with Sacrifice is not nearly strong enough
Breath of Sindragosa: Solid, aggressively priced card. Good
Shadow essence: Bad.
Rotface: Bad
Bone drake: Average. Probably worth throwing in for Priest, not much else.
saronite chain gang: 100% bad except for possibly evolve shaman. Not sure,
Webweave: Apparently very strong at 4 mana. As is... probably underpowered.
Happy Ghoul: Really nice in Priest!
Despicable Dreadlord: Really good card: Finally Warlocks getting good cards?
Malfurion the Pestilent: Neat card, but not that strong. I don't think this sees play.
Uther of the Ebon Blade: Amazing card! Super Ashbringer plus hero power upgrade! The exodia effect is never gonna happen, but it's still a very strong card that will definitely see play.
Blackguard: Sounds good, not sure if it'll actually turn out amazing. The main point is that it probably doesn't get value on the turn you play it.
Druid of the Swarm: Holy power creep! And it might not even see that much play! I'm going to throw him in my Beast Druid, but that deck is pretty bad..
Forge of Souls: Probably.... ok. Control warrior might throw one in. not much else, really.
Snowfury Giant: Pretty sure this is bad. Giants are only good if they eventually cost 0, or if they can be played on turn 4. This is neither. It'll turn out to be a 6ish mana 8/8 on turn 6ish, which is not impressive.
Scourgelord Garrosh: Unimpressive. Good weapon, but not much else. Whirlwind is pretty weak lategame.
Drakkari Enchanter: Actually pretty interesting. Will have to think on whether there are good enough effects to play this with.
Doomerang: Interesting! Especially with the 3-mana weapon they just printed. You play that, attack, Doomerang and get it back. Total 6 damage for 4 mana and you took 0.
Night Howler: Baaaad
Skelemancer: Actually interesting. Liking this new deathrattle type of effect. They all look too weak for Constructed though
Wicked Skeleton: Arena
Deadscale Knight: Bad
Wretched Tiller: Bad
Spectral Pillager: Interesting, but ultimately bad.
Tuskarr Fisherman: Arena
Hyndlir Frostrider: Good arena card
Grim Necromancer: Arena
Arrogant Crusader: pretty bad
Deathaxe Punisher: Super bad
Grave Shambler: Very bad
Bone Baron: Interesting, but not good enough
Exploding Bloatbat: Bloatbad
Vryghoul: worse than Harvest Golem
Furnacefire Colossus: Why does a 6/6 for 6 have a drawback?
Toxic Arrow: Too expensive. Hunter's mark is much better.
Keening Banshee: Good arena card
Death Revenant: Awful
Venomancer: Too weak
Spellweaver: Bad.
Gnash: Very bad. Claw is so much better (since claw + hero power is the same as Gnash)
Dark Conviction: Interesting. Maybe a tad too weak, but interesting
Tainted Zealot: Really good! Not sure if anyone will need spell damage, but this is a very nice one.
Bloodworm: Bad.
Acherus Veteran: Bad.
Arfus: The cards are pretty sick, is it worth it to just throw him in every nonaggro? I'm inclined to think yes!
Lich King: Very strong. I fully expect a rise in The Black Knight and BGH.
Guldan DK: As I said: The only good demons are the ones that make you discard the DK, so the effect is pretty useless. Awesome hero power, but it doesn't matter. I don't have much faith in this one. Although Kabal Trafficker and that new 5-drop... I'll still stay skeptical
Strongshell Scavenger: Cool with scarabs, but bad i think.
Avalanche: Overcosted.
Drain Soul OK removal. Maybe just enough to see play.

AND, my version of the DK bingo!
I'll try to stick to three rankings (good, maybe, bad).
Also, i'll be trying my hardest not to just call everything "maybe". It's too easy to give vague ratings and say that everything has potential, i'll just give stronger predictions and be OK if i mess some up.

Druid: Maybe, leaning Bad. The new hero power is nothing incredible, and the battlecry effect is a 4-5 mana spell. It's just not that strong to me. I guess this maybe works if super control druid exists? It sure is enabled by Ultimate Infestation...
Hunter: Bad. Hero power is a downgrade. Battlecry is pretty good, but really i'd rather keep Steady shot in the lategame.
Mage: Bad. Battlecry is a 4-mana minion that does nothing immediately, and the hero power is very slow. The Lifesteal might be significant (especially if you have other elementals on the board already), and in a very prolonged game it's clearly very strong. But i don't think it's going to work, because the tempo loss is pretty significant.
Paladin: Good. And by good i mean Amazing. 20 health, 15 damage, double hero power, and you can even threaten OTK by adding a bounce effect or two.
Priest: Good. Very significant battlecry, very significant hero power. I see a lot of potential in this card.
Rogue: Maybe, leaning on Good. Battlecry is basically Ice block, a busted effect. The passive effect is also really good.
The tempo loss of this card means that probably you can only play this when you have lethal next turn with some combo, but i actually think such combo deck can and will exist.
Shaman: Good. Evolve decks exist and are fine. This card fits there and makes it stronger. Pretty straightforward.
Warlock: Bad. Again: The only good demons are the ones that make you discard the DK, so the battlecry is kind of bad. Amazing hero power, but i just don't think you can play this card as a pseudo N'zoth in the first place, as you don't have many good demons to pull (Kabal trafficker and the new 5-drop are the only ones i can think of)
Warrior: Maybe, leaning on Bad. You lose access to Armor Up!, which is significant when you just equipped a weapon and need to hit some minions with your face. Other than that.. maybe it's a bit overcosted? The weapon sure is good, but i don't think it's too hard to play around it after the first swing.

[Destro_Yersul]

Warlock: Bad. Again: The only good demons are the ones that make you discard the DK, so the battlecry is kind of bad. Amazing hero power, but i just don't think you can play this card as a pseudo N'zoth in the first place, as you don't have many good demons to pull (Kabal trafficker and the new 5-drop are the only ones i can think of)

I think you're underestimating the number of good demons for this to resummon. I still think it's only a maybe, but let's look at the list.

Abyssal Enforcer, Despicable Dreadlord and Doomguard are all good: Sometimes doomguard discards this guy and you're sad, but a lot of the time you'll have played it before you even draw this. I don't think 'it might get discarded' is enough of a downside. Flame Imp and Voidwalker aren't terrible either, though I don't think you'd run voidwalker in most cases. You might run Malchezar's Imp, if you have a couple other discard effects. In any case, that's ~10 cards for this to resummon, so you can probably count on him filling the board back up most of the time. The dream is probably you play Doomsayer, then your opponent can't kill it and their board is clear, then you play this guy for a full board.

I don't know if that'll be good, but I do think it's worth trying.

[Gandariel]

I think you're underestimating the number of good demons for this to resummon. I still think it's only a maybe, but let's look at the list.

Abyssal Enforcer, Despicable Dreadlord and Doomguard are all good: Sometimes doomguard discards this guy and you're sad, but a lot of the time you'll have played it before you even draw this. I don't think 'it might get discarded' is enough of a downside. Flame Imp and Voidwalker aren't terrible either, though I don't think you'd run voidwalker in most cases. You might run Malchezar's Imp, if you have a couple other discard effects. In any case, that's ~10 cards for this to resummon, so you can probably count on him filling the board back up most of the time. The dream is probably you play Doomsayer, then your opponent can't kill it and their board is clear, then you play this guy for a full board.

I don't know if that'll be good, but I do think it's worth trying.

You can't play Doomguard in a control deck. You cannot.
Even if it doesn't discard your DK, it discards the Shadowflame you were counting on to use next turn, or the Siphon, the Jaraxxus, or whatever tech card you might need.

Doomguard is a great card, but it only really works in zoo, where A) you often don't have cards in hand, and B) most cards are replaceable. (And C, the discard package works there)

As for the others, yes, Enforcer and Dreadlord are good.
The 1-mana stuff... i mean. I'm not even sure you'd run them, and even if you do it's not like they add much value to the board. Voidwalker is actually the only one that would be good, since it has taunt.
And again, you are not running Malchezaar's imp in a control deck.
So, we have two rather large dudes, and two 1-drops (total 8 slots)

You can still probably flood the board with this, but you aren't really getting any incredible value or immediate board effect.
For the amount of slots, it doesn't seem that amazing to me, especially compared to N'zoth.

Then again this is only my opinion :P

[Chen]

Dread infernal isn't terrible. Bane of Doom can be run in a control deck too to get another demon out. That's 4 solid, lategame demons with Abyssal enforcer and the new arcane explosion guy. I wonder about using Jaraxxus as well in the control deck. Gives you two finishers and presumably either hero can be used to overwrite the other. Jarraxus after Gul'dan heals to 15 again. Gul'dan after Jarraxus only heals 5, but presumably brings back all your infernals if that's somehow needed.

It's pretty nutty in wild in a demonlock or reno/demonlock deck though.

[Shadowcaller]

You can't play Doomguard in a control deck. You cannot.
Even if it doesn't discard your DK, it discards the Shadowflame you were counting on to use next turn, or the Siphon, the Jaraxxus, or whatever tech card you might need.

Doomguard is a great card, but it only really works in zoo, where A) you often don't have cards in hand, and B) most cards are replaceable. (And C, the discard package works there)

As for the others, yes, Enforcer and Dreadlord are good.
The 1-mana stuff... i mean. I'm not even sure you'd run them, and even if you do it's not like they add much value to the board. Voidwalker is actually the only one that would be good, since it has taunt.
And again, you are not running Malchezaar's imp in a control deck.
So, we have two rather large dudes, and two 1-drops (total 8 slots)

You can still probably flood the board with this, but you aren't really getting any incredible value or immediate board effect.
For the amount of slots, it doesn't seem that amazing to me, especially compared to N'zoth.

Then again this is only my opinion :P

I actually played doom guard in a control deck and it actually works pretty decently against agro decks. See, the problem with control decks is that against say, pirate warrior. You're sitting there with a bunch of useless cards that all cost too much to use. You've already played all the cheap cards by turn 5, so often you are sitting with some big infernal or what-not. Sure, you could discard a heal, but the tempo is far more important against an agro deck.

Against control it is worse, but that's why my deck runs Krul as a victory condition (yes, it is not really a competitive deck, just good enough to defeat some low-skilled players with some luck.) However, I still the point of doomguard is apt. I can be used well, even against control when you need some tempo.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

In addition, we have Kabal Trafficker, which is a 6 mana 6/6 "draw" a random demon." While definitely worse than "draw a card", it's already a 6/6, which is a solid 4.5ish mana worth of stats, and whatever demon(s?) you scoop up have significantly more value when you're "double dipping".

Edit: Also, checking the cards if Krul works, and I think the answer is 'probably not'. Sure, the combo is pretty good, but you're really stretching for the lower end of your curve, and even the normal version of the deck struggles with that. That said, you get to run 1 Doomguard and 1 Lakari Fellhound, because you just summon them with Krul in control, and in aggro the discard isn't terribly relevant.

[Joran]

I actually played doom guard in a control deck and it actually works pretty decently against agro decks. See, the problem with control decks is that against say, pirate warrior. You're sitting there with a bunch of useless cards that all cost too much to use. You've already played all the cheap cards by turn 5, so often you are sitting with some big infernal or what-not. Sure, you could discard a heal, but the tempo is far more important against an agro deck.

Against control it is worse, but that's why my deck runs Krul as a victory condition (yes, it is not really a competitive deck, just good enough to defeat some low-skilled players with some luck.) However, I still the point of doomguard is apt. I can be used well, even against control when you need some tempo.

A Reno/Krul deck will be fun to run the new Warlock DK card; it'll help restore a full Krul board when another Control deck wipes the first one. I'm unsure if a Control Style Warlock will be good again because of the lack of good healing options (although, lifesteal may end up being an interesting way for Control Warlock to heal).

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Edit: Also, checking the cards if Krul works, and I think the answer is 'probably not'. Sure, the combo is pretty good, but you're really stretching for the lower end of your curve, and even the normal version of the deck struggles with that. That said, you get to run 1 Doomguard and 1 Lakari Fellhound, because you just summon them with Krul in control, and in aggro the discard isn't terribly relevant.

[Shadowcaller]

Edit: Also, checking the cards if Krul works, and I think the answer is 'probably not'. Sure, the combo is pretty good, but you're really stretching for the lower end of your curve, and even the normal version of the deck struggles with that. That said, you get to run 1 Doomguard and 1 Lakari Fellhound, because you just summon them with Krul in control, and in aggro the discard isn't terribly relevant.

Against priest, the deck is actually pretty powerful as they have few ways to deal with a board that consist of a lot of larger than 5 health minions (unless they stolen your twisting nether of course, that would be bad), especially when they already played one of their dragon fire potions.
However, it struggles against warrior (both pirate and taunt) due to their face damage or brawl, and against mage due to their insane face damage.
It does pretty favorably against shaman however as you are running so many board clears though.

[Mando Knight]

Edit: Also, checking the cards if Krul works, and I think the answer is 'probably not'. Sure, the combo is pretty good, but you're really stretching for the lower end of your curve, and even the normal version of the deck struggles with that. That said, you get to run 1 Doomguard and 1 Lakari Fellhound, because you just summon them with Krul in control, and in aggro the discard isn't terribly relevant.

I think you can run duplicates of at least one of those cards with Krul: if you don't have a high-impact Demon in hand when you drop Krul, Krul's ability isn't really worth using yet anyway.

[Zevox]

You can't play Doomguard in a control deck. You cannot.
Even if it doesn't discard your DK, it discards the Shadowflame you were counting on to use next turn, or the Siphon, the Jaraxxus, or whatever tech card you might need.

Doomguard is a great card, but it only really works in zoo, where A) you often don't have cards in hand, and B) most cards are replaceable. (And C, the discard package works there)

As for the others, yes, Enforcer and Dreadlord are good.
The 1-mana stuff... i mean. I'm not even sure you'd run them, and even if you do it's not like they add much value to the board. Voidwalker is actually the only one that would be good, since it has taunt.
And again, you are not running Malchezaar's imp in a control deck.
So, we have two rather large dudes, and two 1-drops (total 8 slots)

You can still probably flood the board with this, but you aren't really getting any incredible value or immediate board effect.
For the amount of slots, it doesn't seem that amazing to me, especially compared to N'zoth.

Then again this is only my opinion :P

I agree that you don't run discard synergy stuff in a deck like this, and most likely don't even run Doomguard, but I think you're still underrating the effect here. A single card summoning two 6/6s, two 4/5s that cast Arcane Explosion each turn, and possibly a 1/3 taunt or two, plus that hero power switch is pretty insane value, definitely comparable to N'zoth. Heck, with the Dreadlords, it has more immediate impact on the board than N'zoth ever did, especially if you get both, in which case you're also basically getting a free Consecration out of it. If there's any weakness to the demons, it's that the only taunting demon worth considering using is the tiny Voidwalker, since the two larger options suck, so taunt-wise it can only summon a pair of speedbumps to protect you the turn you play it, rather than a more substantial shield. But with the 5 armor gain and the hero power on subsequent turns, that may well be all you need, unless you're so far behind that you weren't going to win anyway.

It may well not see serious play after the experimentation phase, but if it doesn't, I'd wager it's because a Control Warlock just still lacks the tools to be viable in a post-Healbot and post-Reno era, not because the hero card itself isn't good enough or the few strong demons it has to revive aren't good enough.

[Destro_Yersul]

Couple things I've noticed with the new patch.

The concede button is now red, so you don't accidentally click it.

New frozen throne gameboard.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

As a detraction from the New Expansion Stuff...

Holy hell, I legitimately cannot for the life of me figure out what to pick in this arena choice.

Spoiler

Show

http://imgur.com/a/lxdZX

[Hamste]

Arcane giant is automatically out. 12 cards in (counting this one) and you have only one 1 drop. Molten Giant seems to be the pick and hope to get more taunt/heal.

[Techwarrior]

Yea, it's an easy (although painful) Molten Giant. You don't have the synergy for either Recruits or Arcane Giant.

[Gandariel]

I would actually take Small Time Recruits. Molten Giant is very often useless in my experience, and it's rather easy to get more 1-drops in the rest of the draft.

[Gandariel]

I agree that you don't run discard synergy stuff in a deck like this, and most likely don't even run Doomguard, but I think you're still underrating the effect here. A single card summoning two 6/6s, two 4/5s that cast Arcane Explosion each turn, and possibly a 1/3 taunt or two, plus that hero power switch is pretty insane value, definitely comparable to N'zoth. Heck, with the Dreadlords, it has more immediate impact on the board than N'zoth ever did, especially if you get both, in which case you're also basically getting a free Consecration out of it. If there's any weakness to the demons, it's that the only taunting demon worth considering using is the tiny Voidwalker, since the two larger options suck, so taunt-wise it can only summon a pair of speedbumps to protect you the turn you play it, rather than a more substantial shield. But with the 5 armor gain and the hero power on subsequent turns, that may well be all you need, unless you're so far behind that you weren't going to win anyway.

It may well not see serious play after the experimentation phase, but if it doesn't, I'd wager it's because a Control Warlock just still lacks the tools to be viable in a post-Healbot and post-Reno era, not because the hero card itself isn't good enough or the few strong demons it has to revive aren't good enough.

Well, I've been wrong before, and you (and the others) certainly have a point.
I'm still not convinced, because I'm not confident in demons being a good tribe right now. Maybe the new 5-drop truly is as amazing as it seems. We'll see.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I would actually take Small Time Recruits. Molten Giant is very often useless in my experience, and it's rather easy to get more 1-drops in the rest of the draft.

Seconded. Molten Giant only used to work in a very specific sort of deck, and with the nerf, it's even harder now. I don't think it's even possible to run Molten Giant if you don't have Ice Block to save yourself. To even play it, you have to be at 15 health or lower, and that's for a 10-mana 8/8. 13 health for a mediocre 8-mana 8/8, and at that point you're seriously in the danger zone--and an 8/8 won't swing the board immediately if you're in that much trouble.

Small Time Recruits will act as a draw spell, and 1-drops are definitely not hard to pick up this early in the draft, agreed. It also filters those 1-drops out of your lategame topdecks.

[Destro_Yersul]

yeah, between Arcane and Molten I'd take Arcane every time, even with only a handful of spells. Both are likely to be dead cards, may as well take the one with an easier condition to meet now that Arena's offering more spells.