Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm unsurprised by the other nerfs, but I don't understand the Warleader nerfs. Was Murloc really that dominant of a deck? I had always enjoyed playing some nice Murloc Shaman, but I didn't think it really needed nerfing. Anyone with more experience willing to set me straight?

(Also, currently on my phone and battle.net links work poorly for me on mobile, so if they explain their reasoning deeper in the link then I apologize in advance)

[Gandariel]

Ooh, nerf day, honestly surprised about some of them...

Let's see:

Innervate: Would have preferred "Refresh 2 mana", but fine. I think this might still see play.
Fiery War Axe: Huh? That's a pretty strong nerf. I don't think this is very warranted, but I guess this one should still see play.
Hex: Very random, but sure. Probably warranted nerf, card will still see play in control decks.
Murloc Warleader: No more Finja-survived-after-all tricks! Overall the effect of this card was super busted, it's probably a healthy nerf. I'd say this one too will keep seeing play.
Spreading Plague: Obviously warranted nerf, maybe the whole "scarab" theme could have been pushed down to 1/4s? or is "the number 5" part of Druid's Class Identity?

....

Well, I guess Blizzard really did well, because I think all of the nerfed cards will still see some play after the nerfs!
I do have to say that Druid doesn't look like it wasn't hit hard enough with the nerf stick (especially considering that they nerfed Paladin and Warrior, too).

[Psyren]

I'd have also preferred "refresh 2 mana" - differentiating it more from Counterfeit Coin while also preserving the Druid's niche as the mana ramp color class. The Rogue's coin is there for combo potential moreso than acceleration.

[Zevox]

The nerfs were announced

Spoiler: TL;DR

Show

Innervate gains you only 1 mana.
Fiery War Axe's cost went up to 3
Hex's cost went up to 4
Murloc Warleader no longer buffs health
Spreading Plague's cost went up to 6

...what the hell? "While they can be regarded as staples in those classes’ card repertoires, too many Basic and Classic cards played in individual decks means less fun when new expansions are released." So, should we be expecting nerfs to every such staple in the future? Frostbolt and Fireball, Wrath and Swipe, the Shadow Words and Northshire Cleric, etc, all in the name of "more fun when new expansions are released?"

Yeah, honestly, this whole thing kind of upsets me, personally. This isn't them saying that these cards were a balance issue - how could they, when they haven't been in the years they've been out and playable? - this is them just nerfing cards for the sake of making Standard more dependent on the new releases. Which, much like the Hall of Fame, goes against the point of leaving Classic cards as evergreen in the first place - having a pool of staple cards that players who don't play constantly can always count on having when they come back (but now they may not longer be any good when they do) - and in addition, unlike the Hall of Fame, this makes those cards worse even in other formats, now and forever after. Much like nerfing Molten Giants has resulted in classic Handlock being unplayable even in Wild, if changes like these make these cards significantly worse, you can't just go to Wild to play those old decks you may have liked from before the nerfs.

From where I'm sitting, this is a really bad sign for the future of this game. I do not like the idea that they'd do this at all, and honestly with that logic, I can only expect that they will keep doing it, regularly weakening classic cards for the sake of making new cards that much more important. And I don't believe that's healthy or fun for the game, at all.

[Anarion]

I'm unsurprised by the other nerfs, but I don't understand the Warleader nerfs. Was Murloc really that dominant of a deck? I had always enjoyed playing some nice Murloc Shaman, but I didn't think it really needed nerfing. Anyone with more experience willing to set me straight?

(Also, currently on my phone and battle.net links work poorly for me on mobile, so if they explain their reasoning deeper in the link then I apologize in advance)

I think warleader was messing up removal for a lot of classes because it functions as pseudo healing. Like, if a Murloc goes to 1 health and I play warleader, it goes to 2 and stays at 2 even if I kill warleader.

Innervate: Would have preferred "Refresh 2 mana", but fine. I think this might still see play.

I like nerfing it to coin. Refresh two mana avoids the turn 10 play on turn 6, but doesn't help with the 14 mana play on 10, which is also a huge part of the ability for Jade to swing tempo.

Also, I suspect that new players would heavily misplay "refresh 2 mana" because nobody would know what the heck refresh means, which is a problem based on their stated goal of the card as a teaching tool.

Fiery War Axe: Huh? That's a pretty strong nerf. I don't think this is very warranted, but I guess this one should still see play.

Doesn't that mean the nerf is perfect? If you nerf it and everybody still plays it anyway, then you've perfectly succeeded in toning down the class, and you can even say that the old version was probably OP.

Spreading Plague: Obviously warranted nerf, maybe the whole "scarab" theme could have been pushed down to 1/4s? or is "the number 5" part of Druid's Class Identity?

I haven't been able to figure this one, especially as the 1/5s are sort of overstatted for their relative cost and what you expect to get per card.

[Rodin]

As a general rule, I'm pretty supportive of removing "staple" cards. It isn't fun to know that Warrior will always play Fiery War Axe on turn 2. It greatly reduces the variety of the game, and with the cards in Standard they never, ever go away. This is especially true of cards that warp a class around it (like Gadgetzan Auctioneer does to Rogue) or Neutral cards that are so universally good every class runs them at a disproportionate rate (like Azure Drake and Sylvanas).

That said, I'm really scratching my head over Hex. It wasn't a staple card the way Fiery War Axe was. It's rarely run in aggro lists and even mid-range decks like Evolve Shaman often cut it. It isn't a card you assume your opponent has just because they're a Shaman - I'm fine with Ice Block for much the same reason.

I would be curious to know how often staple cards get run in tournaments. How many Mage decks show up to a tournament without Frostbolt and Fireball? Druids without Wrath and Swipe? Warriors without Fiery War Axe?

Because there is a definite difference between those (which are omnipresent) and the cards which are simply very common. The Shadow Words got dropped from Silence Priest last expansion. Quest Rogue often didn't run Eviscerate. Pirate Warrior doesn't use Brawl. Etc.

I'm fine with the latter set that fade in and out as the classes evolve from expansion to expansion. It's the cards where you pick your class and stick them in your deck without thinking that are a problem.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think warleader was messing up removal for a lot of classes because it functions as pseudo healing. Like, if a Murloc goes to 1 health and I play warleader, it goes to 2 and stays at 2 even if I kill warleader.

I guess I can see that, although more from a "hidden game knowledge" sort of angle than balance per se. I guess I'll resort now to a plaintive, whiny "why now??"

[Zevox]

As a general rule, I'm pretty supportive of removing "staple" cards. It isn't fun to know that Warrior will always play Fiery War Axe on turn 2. It greatly reduces the variety of the game, and with the cards in Standard they never, ever go away.

See, I don't believe that at all. A few solid cards that get run in most or all decks of a particular class doesn't meaningfully reduce variety, because if those cards work in all decks for that class, then you'll still see plenty of varied decks out of it. We've still seen so many types of Mage over the years, and Frostbolt being in all of them hasn't affected that one bit. Warrior we've seen fewer types of, but mainly because it's usually been dominated by Control types, with more aggressive versions being rarer (if more current at the moment because we're still in the era of Old Gods Pirates and Patches being in standard), but even there we've seen the class shift between different types of Control decks, from general control topped with Grommash and Ysera, to occasional Dragon decks before Dragon Warrior shifted to be more aggressive, to C'Thun, to Quest. And those decks still bring variety and feel different, regardless of having some cards, such as Firey War Axe, in common.

Quite the contrary, I think that staple cards are important for giving the classes their identities. Efficient weapons should be one of Warrior's defining traits, and Firey War Axe has been the prime card making sure that it always is, even though they've often not had others since Death's Bite rotated out. Yet now they're saying that Warrior's most iconic weapon card will just be a worse version of weapons available to other classes - strictly worse than Eaglehorn Bow or Rallying Blade. That's a pretty bad move, in my book.

[Talion]

...what the hell? "While they can be regarded as staples in those classes’ card repertoires, too many Basic and Classic cards played in individual decks means less fun when new expansions are released." So, should we be expecting nerfs to every such staple in the future? Frostbolt and Fireball, Wrath and Swipe, the Shadow Words and Northshire Cleric, etc, all in the name of "more fun when new expansions are released?"

Yeah, honestly, this whole thing kind of upsets me, personally. This isn't them saying that these cards were a balance issue - how could they, when they haven't been in the years they've been out and playable? - this is them just nerfing cards for the sake of making Standard more dependent on the new releases. Which, much like the Hall of Fame, goes against the point of leaving Classic cards as evergreen in the first place - having a pool of staple cards that players who don't play constantly can always count on having when they come back (but now they may not longer be any good when they do) - and in addition, unlike the Hall of Fame, this makes those cards worse even in other formats, now and forever after. Much like nerfing Molten Giants has resulted in classic Handlock being unplayable even in Wild, if changes like these make these cards significantly worse, you can't just go to Wild to play those old decks you may have liked from before the nerfs.

From where I'm sitting, this is a really bad sign for the future of this game. I do not like the idea that they'd do this at all, and honestly with that logic, I can only expect that they will keep doing it, regularly weakening classic cards for the sake of making new cards that much more important. And I don't believe that's healthy or fun for the game, at all.

Honestly, it rubs me the same way. Doing a lump sum series of alterations when they started the "Standard" vs "Wild" method made sense, even if it was occasionally upsetting. It allowed them to handle cards that were really and truly out of control (such as the Hall of Famers, or with regards to the wild format, Dr. Boom). Heck, they even compensated players by not only granting them full dust conversion, but even just giving them a big lump sum of dust if they already had the cards anyway (or at least I know I did).

However, continuing to do so, after what is it now, the 5th card expansion since it released, sets a very dangerous precedent. It tells us that any card from the classic (or even basic) set could be decried as "OP" and weakened in favor of 2-4 suspiciously similar cards in a new expansion. For cards like these, they already had at least a year or two to figure out that they were causing problems (at least from their viewpoint). Not doing so at the time they introduced Wild and Standard is disappointing at best, and alarming at worst. There's quite a few major staple cards out there that are just begging to be nerfed or Famed. I can only imagine the upset to the game that would occur if something like "Arcane Intellect" suffered such a fate.

In an immediate sense, what this feels like is another cash grab. If someone isn't willing or able to either shell out $100 - $200 per release or play as if its their job, they won't have the cards to play effectively if they stop playing for any period. You could have the entire Classic set (or close enough for most purposes, as I do) and watch as the investment in time dwindles to nothing as those get nerfed, while newer cards get more and more powerful and are shrugged off under the banner of "Well, at least they're only OP for a year." If the cards were more accessible to players, then they could legitimately claim it is more about 'fun'. And, to be fair, they have made an effort (IE adding a LOT more quests that focus on 'Try playing these kinds of cards to see their functions' vs 'you have to win'). But 5 to 10 new cards a day (1.5 packs) isn't much when there's so much to collect to try and stay relevant, and that's if you put in the time and effort daily.

All in all, it goes against the idea that you can put the game down for a few weeks or even an expansion or two, for whatever reason, and come back and be able to play with the cards you already had. If this trend continues in any manner of regular fashion (and it probably will) they'll have done a good job of branding themselves liars in that regard.

EDIT: That is not to say that, regardless of the current meta or the latest expansions, a Classic/Basic only deck for any class should always be a top tier winner; only that the cards shouldn't be continuously nerfed to make later expansions feel better, and that they should have a fair chance at low to mid level play to keep older players around and give new players something to fall back on when they're struggling with newer things.

[Joran]

My fear with these sets of nerfs is that it'll be similar to the old Shamanstone nerfs. They nerfed two of the aggro Shaman tools (Rockbiter/Tuskar Totemic), but also nerfed Call of the Wild, Execute, and Yogg (several of the archetypes that were good against Shaman). Coupled with the great cards from Karazhan and suddenly Shaman (albeit Midrange Shaman) was even more powerful than before the nerfs.

They nerfed Innervate, which was a problematic card, but one I felt was often not a key to victory; likewise, I often felt like I had more mana at my disposal to make sure of a Spreading Plague. They also nerfed two of the popular anti-Jade Druids, especially Murloc Paladin, so I'm worried that this will end up with Jade in an even more dominant position than before.

[Rodin]

My fear with these sets of nerfs is that it'll be similar to the old Shamanstone nerfs. They nerfed two of the aggro Shaman tools (Rockbiter/Tuskar Totemic), but also nerfed the Call of the Wild, Execute, and Yogg. Coupled with the great cards from Karazhan and suddenly Shaman (albeit Midrange Shaman) was even more powerful than before the nerfs.

They nerfed Innervate, which was a problematic card, but one I felt was often not a key to victory; likewise, I often felt like I had more mana at my disposal to make sure of a Spreading Plague. They also nerfed two of the popular anti-Jade Druids, especially Murloc Paladin, so I'm worried that this will end up with Jade in an even more dominant position than before.

The really fun thing?

What finally killed Shaman's dominance was rotation.

Which means we've likely got another 9 months of this crap.

One thing that occurs to me while looking at these nerfs - Spreading Plague aside, they seem designed for a different meta. Nerfing Fiery War Axe is a big hit to Pirate Warrior. Warleader is a huge hit to Murloc Paladin. Innervate was already a problem with Vicious Fledgling.

I think we just got the nerfs for the Un'goro meta, a couple months late.

[Anarion]

EDIT: That is not to say that, regardless of the current meta or the latest expansions, a Classic/Basic only deck for any class should always be a top tier winner; only that the cards shouldn't be continuously nerfed to make later expansions feel better, and that they should have a fair chance at low to mid level play to keep older players around and give new players something to fall back on when they're struggling with newer things.

In all honesty, I think they majorly screwed up with the initial release of Hearthstone. Not as badly as Ancestral Recall in Magic the Gathering, but still really badly, and we're seeing that in the design of new sets. A few people here are coming at this from the idea that the classic cards are basically at a good place of balance, but I don't think they are. They're mostly at the pinnacle of power. Imagine that they had released any of the 3 attack weapons as two mana cost. Rally blade for 2 mana? Incredibly OP. Imagine if they released unconditional card draw cheaper than arcane intellect, people would bemoan the power creep of the game. Now, granted, they also have magma rager, so it's not like old cards are universally OP across the board, but a number of the original cards do as much as can possibly be done for that mana cost. To do one more example, fireball is the most damage you're getting out of 4 mana. You can't have 7 damage for 4, it's too strong.

But all this means that there's very little room to grow. Let's look at how many warrior weapons they've tried to create
1. Cursed blade: total crap
2. Molten blade: slow and performs best if it happens to become a fiery war axe.
3. King's Defender: expensive fiery waraxe that was rarely run
4. Ogre warmaul: worse than waraxe because it's random, even with the extra attack
5. Death's bite: this one was OP itself.
6. Brass knuckles: awful, hand buffing itself being pretty bad so far
7. Blood Razor: poor man's Death's Bite, not that great right now.
7. Arcanite Reaper: really expensive, has mostly been bad during hearthstone's history until the pirate aggro synergy.
8. Fool's bane: can't hit face, too weak and expensive.
9. Tentacles for Arms: way too expensive and weak, even with repeat usage.
10. Gorehowl: legitimately good control card.

10 Weapons, of which only 2 make a dent over waraxe, and both at different slots along the curve. Also note that of those 10 weapons, all but waraxe, war maul, and cursed blade have a mana cost greater than their power. And war maul was random while cursed blade was, well, cursed. It was near impossible until this nerf to design a cheap weapon for warrior. It would always just be worse than waraxe.

I'm not saying that every good card should be nerfed, this is not the sudden end of frostbolt, truesilver champion, and so forth. But if you've got a deck that's overperforming (whether that's druid or pirate warrior or whatever) and you're doing some nerfs to try to curtain things, nerfing cards to open up some design space isn't a bad way to go about it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

...what the hell? "While they can be regarded as staples in those classes’ card repertoires, too many Basic and Classic cards played in individual decks means less fun when new expansions are released." So, should we be expecting nerfs to every such staple in the future? Frostbolt and Fireball, Wrath and Swipe, the Shadow Words and Northshire Cleric, etc, all in the name of "more fun when new expansions are released?"

Yeah, honestly, this whole thing kind of upsets me, personally. This isn't them saying that these cards were a balance issue - how could they, when they haven't been in the years they've been out and playable? - this is them just nerfing cards for the sake of making Standard more dependent on the new releases. Which, much like the Hall of Fame, goes against the point of leaving Classic cards as evergreen in the first place - having a pool of staple cards that players who don't play constantly can always count on having when they come back (but now they may not longer be any good when they do) - and in addition, unlike the Hall of Fame, this makes those cards worse even in other formats, now and forever after. Much like nerfing Molten Giants has resulted in classic Handlock being unplayable even in Wild, if changes like these make these cards significantly worse, you can't just go to Wild to play those old decks you may have liked from before the nerfs.

From where I'm sitting, this is a really bad sign for the future of this game. I do not like the idea that they'd do this at all, and honestly with that logic, I can only expect that they will keep doing it, regularly weakening classic cards for the sake of making new cards that much more important. And I don't believe that's healthy or fun for the game, at all.

It was a bit subtle, but this is definitely something that's been, heh, "in the cards" for a while. Remember this interview from when Standard Rotation was being introduced?

The goal here in general, with the whole Standard format, is to make the game able to shift more dynamically when new content is released. When we are looking at cards in the Basic and Classic sets, some of those cards are so powerful, and are used in so many decks, that it makes it hard for us.

Don't forget Ragnaros, Sylvanas, Power Overwhelming, and Azure Drake, which were Hall-of-Famed for exactly this reason.

I've definitely been disgruntled about this, and the fact that they're pushing players to have mostly-expansion decks is one of the things that leads me to not take the game more seriously on a competitive level.

[Zevox]

It was a bit subtle, but this is definitely something that's been, heh, "in the cards" for a while. Remember this interview from when Standard Rotation was being introduced?



Don't forget Ragnaros, Sylvanas, Power Overwhelming, and Azure Drake, which were Hall-of-Famed for exactly this reason.

I've definitely been disgruntled about this, and the fact that they're pushing players to have mostly-expansion decks is one of the things that leads me to not take the game more seriously on a competitive level.

Yes, I do remember that, or at least the general sense of it. I didn't like it then (though at the time I was hoping it would at least be be a one-time thing that was put to rest with that first wave of nerfs), didn't like the Hall of Fame, and still don't like it now. The notion of the Classic set being evergreen, with the defining cards of each class being kept forever as a baseline for the game, is something that I very much would prefer if they stuck to.

I will say I was amenable to certain nerfs to make sure that all-classic decks wouldn't be standard going forward, such as making sure Force + Savage couldn't keep being the be-all end-all of Druid. I'm glad they did that. And heck, these days I'm even willing to accept the notion of sending Gadgetzan Auctioneer to the Hall of Fame, specifically because he keeps enabling the same style of deck over and over again - especially in Rogue, which hasn't had a single good deck without him in forever - and that despite having already been nerfed once. Plus I can see how he's legitimately a detriment to new card design, as any new cheap spell cards or new mana-generating cards could become incredibly potent combos with him.

But I feel they're doing far too much of that sort of thing, far more than is necessary, especially with this latest batch. They barely even tried to justify Hex, basically handwaving it as "well, it's silence-y, so just in case," (incidentally, not a fan of their aversion to silence, either) and War Axe and Innervate are class-defining cards that are getting thrown under the bus for no good reason. Heck, even Murloc Warleader, which personally I have zero emotional reason to care about getting nerfed since I hate Murloc decks, I can understand that it must suck to lose a big part of the power of the main keystone of that archetype if you did like it (Murloc decks may be the new Handlock that way; might not be able to even go play them in Wild after this nerf). And at this point, since it keeps happening, I can only conclude that it will continue to, and we'll see more of these nerfs to Classics in the future. I only wonder how long it will take for that to erode my enjoyment of the game enough to stop playing.

[Grytorm]

I am sad. Just, jerks. Perhaps, I don't have good reasons for being disappointed, but still they are nerfing things that have been such defining elements of the classes. It just really annoys me.

[Psyren]

Stolen from BN forums:

Spoiler

Show

Community: Druids are crazy right now, do something!

Druids: Aw man...no we just got good!

Brode: We hear you, expect word later on a fix.

Community: Finally, less druids!

Druid: Crap, here we go. They always obliterate decks when they nerf....

*Nerfs 6/9 classes*

Druid: .....the hell?

Community: How did this help?

Shamans: What did we do? Hex never hurt nobody?

Brode: Your identity is to suck at things.

Warrior: What about....

Brode: Yours too.

Paladin: How does this....

Brode: Go stonehill another Tirion, no one cares

Rogue: But spreading plague still....

Brode: I thought we killed you already. Team, look into auctioneer again.

Warlock: *crickets*

Brode: That's what I thought you'd say.

Hunter: Can we get some....

Brode: I swear to god, I'll personally slaughter Savannah Highmane.

Druid: *looks around*

Druid: Okay, sounds good. I'll play jades like a good boy.

Brode: Yeah you will. We worked really hard on those.

[Rodin]

Stolen from BN forums:

Spoiler

Show

Community: Druids are crazy right now, do something!

Druids: Aw man...no we just got good!

Brode: We hear you, expect word later on a fix.

Community: Finally, less druids!

Druid: Crap, here we go. They always obliterate decks when they nerf....

*Nerfs 6/9 classes*

Druid: .....the hell?

Community: How did this help?

Shamans: What did we do? Hex never hurt nobody?

Brode: Your identity is to suck at things.

Warrior: What about....

Brode: Yours too.

Paladin: How does this....

Brode: Go stonehill another Tirion, no one cares

Rogue: But spreading plague still....

Brode: I thought we killed you already. Team, look into auctioneer again.

Warlock: *crickets*

Brode: That's what I thought you'd say.

Hunter: Can we get some....

Brode: I swear to god, I'll personally slaughter Savannah Highmane.

Druid: *looks around*

Druid: Okay, sounds good. I'll play jades like a good boy.

Brode: Yeah you will. We worked really hard on those.

I find it doubly hilarious that Priest very quietly sits that conversation out, since they're the class which benefits the most on the competitive scene. I think that if Druid weren't around, the knives would be getting sharpened for Razakus Anduin Priest.

[Divayth Fyr]

I think warleader was messing up removal for a lot of classes because it functions as pseudo healing. Like, if a Murloc goes to 1 health and I play warleader, it goes to 2 and stays at 2 even if I kill warleader.

Still leaves Southsea Captains, Stormwind Champions and Mal'Ganis messing up removal, just for different decks ;P

[Rosstin]

Interesting nerfs, looking forward to meta changing.

[Gandariel]

Comment I found on reddit:

druid and priest are too strong, so we decided to nerf shaman and warrior.
-blizzard 2k17

On a more serious note, I think the nerfs are overall good, but I am not sure they'll solve the current meta problems.
All of the cards that were nerfed are still, at least, marginally playable, and this is good.
Noone got the "your Charge minions have +1 Attack" treatment.

I do have doubts about Druid not being nerfed hard enough, especially since they also brought down some of the other popular decks (pirate warrior, murloc paladin). Also, nothing to Priest, which is weird.

[Joran]

Still leaves Southsea Captains, Stormwind Champions and Mal'Ganis messing up removal, just for different decks ;P

The Finja interaction (Finja gets to 0 hp, but pulls Warleader so it survives at 1) also makes it not as intuitive.

I did have someone Pyro - Equality my Murloc board and get a lesson on +1 hp aura buffs.

[Rodin]

Comment I found on reddit:

druid and priest are too strong, so we decided to nerf shaman and warrior.
-blizzard 2k17

On a more serious note, I think the nerfs are overall good, but I am not sure they'll solve the current meta problems.
All of the cards that were nerfed are still, at least, marginally playable, and this is good.
Noone got the "your Charge minions have +1 Attack" treatment.

I do have doubts about Druid not being nerfed hard enough, especially since they also brought down some of the other popular decks (pirate warrior, murloc paladin). Also, nothing to Priest, which is weird.

I can understand why they're being cautious with Priest. Druid's power is spread out over a number of cards, which makes it easier to tap a couple and see what happens. Innervate was a pre-existing problem so they've had a long time to look at it, and poking up Spreading Plague's mana cost is an obvious first step.

For Priest, the power is entirely wrapped up in a single card combination of Raza/Anduin. You can't really tap the mana cost - the power isn't coming from that. If you break the combo, both cards fall out of use and the class collapses.

We also haven't had time to see the tournament meta tech against Priest yet. My impression from HCT was that everybody was expecting Pirate Warrior to be running away with it and thus teched for anti-aggro. Priest then came in and ate them for lunch.

I doubt we'll see a Priest nerf before the end of this expansion, if at all.

[Talion]

So, brawl is "An Evil Exchange" (Rafaam vs Kel'Thuzad). Got lucky with Rafaam and first fight ended up being a cake walk (won with 45+ health remaining).

Edit: Actually it was pretty funny, because I maxed out the staff on turn 6 and that's when everything started snowballing. My first earning from that was good ol' Dr. Boom, and from there I just pressed field advantage, which was maintained through cheap legendary summons and whatever that card is that switches out all minions for random ones of the same cost.

[Psyren]

I really want to try a Hemet + Benedictus Steal Priest deck. The only deck you'll ever need, because it is all of them!

[Hamste]

I really want to try a Hemet + Benedictus Steal Priest deck. The only deck you'll ever need, because it is all of them!

That could be an interesting fast control deck against any class other than jade druid. If you make the rest of the cards fast enough (and draw quick enough) you might be able to cover Priest's early game weakness by having all of their early game in a single deck. That might allow you to keep control long enough until you get Hemet at which point you could get your opponent's deck plus obsidian destroyer and maybe one or two late game cards. Though you still run into problems against Jade, combo decks and sometimes Hemet and Benedictus are on the bottom of your deck.

[Psyren]

So, brawl is "An Evil Exchange" (Rafaam vs Kel'Thuzad). Got lucky with Rafaam and first fight ended up being a cake walk (won with 45+ health remaining).

Edit: Actually it was pretty funny, because I maxed out the staff on turn 6 and that's when everything started snowballing. My first earning from that was good ol' Dr. Boom, and from there I just pressed field advantage, which was maintained through cheap legendary summons and whatever that card is that switches out all minions for random ones of the same cost.

Honestly this Brawl badly needs an update - Kelly's deck is painfully static while Raf just gets more and more powerful with every expansion released. If you complete the staff you basically win, and even if you don't get that far there are a lot of powerful epics out there. The brawl might as well read "concede until you get Rafaam."

While the legendary you get is random, each expansion generally has more useful legendaries than non-useful ones, especially when you consider that the staff is reducing the cost of all of them by 2. (-4, +2 for the hero power.) In other words, your chance of getting something unhelpful is very small. Meanwhile Kelthuzad's hero power has a much higher chance of giving him trash.

I had a game where the staff gave me Deathwing, Dragonlord. It took everything my opponent had to keep it at bay - multiple taunts/freezes/secrets - and by the time he was finally able to kill it, I had gotten regular Deathwing and Ysera in my hand too, landing them on the board with zero effort from me. I felt so bad for the guy.

That could be an interesting fast control deck against any class other than jade druid. If you make the rest of the cards fast enough (and draw quick enough) you might be able to cover Priest's early game weakness by having all of their early game in a single deck. That might allow you to keep control long enough until you get Hemet at which point you could get your opponent's deck plus obsidian destroyer and maybe one or two late game cards. Though you still run into problems against Jade, combo decks and sometimes Hemet and Benedictus are on the bottom of your deck.

Here's one sample decklist in action

Just be sure you play Hemet BEFORE Benedictus, unless you're sure your opponent has nothing worthwhile below the 4-cost price point.

[Destro_Yersul]

Honestly this Brawl badly needs an update - Kelly's deck is painfully static while Raf just gets more and more powerful with every expansion released. If you complete the staff you basically win, and even if you don't get that far there are a lot of powerful epics out there. The brawl might as well read "concede until you get Rafaam."

While the legendary you get is random, each expansion generally has more useful legendaries than non-useful ones, especially when you consider that the staff is reducing the cost of all of them by 2. (-4, +2 for the hero power.) In other words, your chance of getting something unhelpful is very small. Meanwhile Kelthuzad's hero power has a much higher chance of giving him trash.

I had a game where the staff gave me Deathwing, Dragonlord. It took everything my opponent had to keep it at bay - multiple taunts/freezes/secrets - and by the time he was finally able to kill it, I had gotten regular Deathwing and Ysera in my hand too, landing them on the board with zero effort from me. I felt so bad for the guy.

I think they did update it, as I'm reasonably certain that Kel's hero power didn't used to give a discount. I could be remembering wrong, though.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, KT's power did not give a discount in the previous iteration. So he's still the weaker of the two, but the margin is not as crippling.

[Talion]

I think they did update it, as I'm reasonably certain that Kel's hero power didn't used to give a discount. I could be remembering wrong, though.

According to the wiki, these are the changes that have been made to it since its inception:

1st Reprise: Kel'Thuzad was greatly nerfed while Rafaam was buffed:

Kel'Thuzad and Rafaam's Hero Powers were altered:

Kel'Thuzad's Hero Power, Necromancy, changed to give a random minion from the Curse of Naxxramas set (or boss encounter) rather than resurrecting a minion.

The first stage of Rafaam's Hero Power, Staff, First Piece, changed to give a random Rare card that costs 2 less Mana, instead of a random minion with a 5 Mana Cost or less.

The second stage of Rafaam's Hero Power, Staff, Two Pieces, changed to give a random Epic card that costs 3 less Mana, instead of a random minion that costs 2 less Mana.

Noth the Plaguebringer (An Evil Exchange)'s cost was increased to 9 mana from 7.

Kel'Thuzad's deck had 2x Haunted Creeper and 1x Counterspell removed, replaced by 2x Cone of Cold and 1x Effigy.

Minor card text changes to Grobbulus and Sapphiron.

2nd Reprise: Kel'Thuzad's Hero Power was buffed to also reduce the card's cost by 3.

So at first Kel'Thuzad was the OP one, then Raafam, and then Kel'Thuzad got a bit of a buff but it doesn't seem like its consistently enough to make the difference against all of the previous alterations (and base mechanics) of the brawl.

[Psyren]

Fair enough, but they still have a long way to go. The difference between the two is staggering.

Even if both get a discount, the fact still remains that one is pulling from a single adventure while the other has access to every legendary in the game, and said legendaries are just not balanced around universally being 2-4 cheaper than they should be.