Hulking Hurler w/o War Hulk or cheese?

[Goaty14]

The War Hulk is from the miniatures handbook

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EDIT: As is probably well-known, you could also throw Half-Ogre template onto this build for free, due to the presence of Half-Minotaur, but I feel that's a bit cheesier than I'd like for a Hulking Hurler that might actually get played at the table.

Why would you use the half ogre template when you could just be a centaur; Centaurs get a x3 to carry capacity because they are quadrupeds.

[Buufreak]

Pretty sure even most meldshapers don't have enough hit points for the last two.

Maybe I missed something somewhere, but since when was a meldshaper the epitome of HP based survivability?

[JNAProductions]

Maybe I missed something somewhere, but since when was a meldshaper the epitome of HP based survivability?

They're Con based?

[Zanos]

How do you actually have things to throw though?

Metals are pretty dense:
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/magconda.htm

Get some throwing spheres cast and stick them in a portable hole. It might take a round to get one out each time but you're also definitely killing whatever you hit. Iron is only 1sp per pound and is dense enough. A portable hole holds 282.74 cubic feet. An enveloping pit would hold 5000 cubic feet, and is actually cheaper if you meet the prereqs to activate it. Iron has a density of 490 lbs per cubic foot, so the portable hole holds 138,542.6 lbs of iron, and the pit holds 2,450,000 lbs of iron. Not that you probably actually want to buy that much. But 50,000 lbs of iron and an enveloping pit will set you back less than 10k.

[Buufreak]

They're Con based?

So are DFA, but we don't see them mentioned. Like, lets talk real brass tax. Totemist has a d8 HD. Lets throw all the numbers out there, and say we can do max on all die, and 30 con? Even throw on something less than optimal but "HP lawl" improved toughness. That's 380. Since we are throwing a d6 around, we can consistently hit a 1HKO with 108d6. Conveniently, Mr(s) Trees did some math and found a relatively easy way to hit (nearly) that exact number. So with his 102d6, we are still instakilling about 45% of the time.

So unless there is some cheese I'm not accounting for (and lets face it, there probably is), I'm not seeing much in the ways of a shaper that can count as a bucket of HP.

Lets compare to a barb! Same starting stats, but mighty rage and better HD. We end up with 300 just with Con and IT, and caps at 540 with rolls. So again, I must ask: why are we calling a meldshaper the epitome of HP based survivability?

Now, as a note, I get that we could do dragonborn mongrelfolk or something similar, but that still isn't much different than above (18 roll, +6 race, +6 item). Also, we are talking PO, and I don't know what you consider practical, but a dozen hoops to jump through doesn't sound it to me.

[Grod_The_Giant]

They're Con based?

Vitality Belt, I'm guessing? It gives you +1 HP/Level per essentia invested. Given that you can throw up to 7 essentia in it (4 base, +2 class feature, +1 feat), that's a pretty sizable chunk... though given that you're only starting with a d6, you're still probably behind a raging Barbarian.

[Hackulator]

Metals are pretty dense:
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/magconda.htm

Get some throwing spheres cast and stick them in a portable hole. It might take a round to get one out each time but you're also definitely killing whatever you hit. Iron is only 1sp per pound and is dense enough. A portable hole holds 282.74 cubic feet. An enveloping pit would hold 5000 cubic feet, and is actually cheaper if you meet the prereqs to activate it. Iron has a density of 490 lbs per cubic foot, so the portable hole holds 138,542.6 lbs of iron, and the pit holds 2,450,000 lbs of iron. Not that you probably actually want to buy that much. But 50,000 lbs of iron and an enveloping pit will set you back less than 10k.

Yeah, I think in most gaming worlds the likelihood of there being a place that will cast meter wide iron spheres is low. Not to mention a supply of that much iron. One of those spheres is enough iron to make like 4000 longswords. I seriously doubt many places keep that much around.

[Buufreak]

Vitality Belt, I'm guessing? It gives you +1 HP/Level per essentia invested. Given that you can throw up to 7 essentia in it (4 base, +2 class feature, +1 feat), that's a pretty sizable chunk... though given that you're only starting with a d6, you're still probably behind a raging Barbarian.

Okay, now that is significant. Lets call it all 7 essentia, plus the 30 Con, netting 17/level, 18 with IT. 360. +120 from perfect HD, and we have 480. Barb still wins.

Edit: It was pointed out that this might be a bit of a derail. That isn't my intent, merely trying to pinpoint exactly how big a rock we need to chuck to statistically end hardier opponents. I established the 108d6 rock works for my theoretical totemist, but lets look at the higher end barb. Looking like 155d6 is his magic number, weighing in at a wopping (if I am doing rock math correctly) 30,000 lbs. The good news is our number crunched gargantuan goliath could just throw 2 rocks with a full attack and call it a day.

As for the density of metal argument: Anything stopping us from making a masterwork ball bearing and putting sizing on it?

[AvatarVecna]

The War Hulk is from the miniatures handbook



Why would you use the half ogre template when you could just be a centaur; Centaurs get a x3 to carry capacity because they are quadrupeds.

For LA +2, my options are "Half-Minotaur Half-Ogre Goliath", and "Half-Ogre Centaur". The former has +20 Str and x2 CC for being Large, while the latter has +12 Str and x3 CC for being a Large quadruped. This means that, with both having a base 18 Str, they would have heavy loads of 9600 lbs and 4800 lbs (with the Goliath having double the CC of the centaur with the same resources).

EDIT: Of course, this is ignoring that you're also spending 4 HD on Monstrous Humanoid RHD if you go Centaur, but even taking those away we just get straight to the above comparison of "Centaur is worse".

EDIT 2: Here's a general rule of thumb, given how CC scales and how Quadrupeds compare to others of the same size: since a Quad is 1.5x that of their size (so Large is x3 and Large Quad is x3, and so on for the other big sizes), you can look at the CC table and see that multiplying your heavy load by 1.5 is about the equivalent of +3 Str, so a Large non-quad has to have at least +4 more than the Quad to have more CC than the Quad...and I've got +8 more than the Quad, so I'm pretty in the clear, as it were.

[Goaty14]

As for the density of metal argument: Anything stopping us from making a masterwork ball bearing and putting sizing on it?

Possibly the argument that you cannot enchant a improvised weapon. If the ball bearing is adamantine, then it is always masterwork, and can always be enchanted. Thing is, what is the density of adamantine, and is it heavy enough to get good results?

[AvatarVecna]

Possibly the argument that you cannot enchant a improvised weapon. If the ball bearing is adamantine, then it is always masterwork, and can always be enchanted. Thing is, what is the density of adamantine, and is it heavy enough to get good results?

Armor and weapons made out of adamantibe instead of steel don't experience a change in weight, so best guess is that has a density comparable to steel.

[Zanos]

Yeah, I think in most gaming worlds the likelihood of there being a place that will cast meter wide iron spheres is low. Not to mention a supply of that much iron. One of those spheres is enough iron to make like 4000 longswords. I seriously doubt many places keep that much around.

You don't need them cast, just kind of smashed together.

And you don't need to buy the capacity either. We've already established a small fraction of that is still hitting for way above expected damage at your level.