Why are people friends with annoying people?

[The Eye]

So, I have been going out with this group of people in the hopes of finding friendship, it’s been great so far they are nice and interesting expect for this one guy.

He is very rude, the kind of guy who use insults such as “cuck”, “fag”, “beta male” etc..
They invited me to play a silly computer game with them and when I asked for help and advice he just said “get gud skrub” and overall being an annoying and unlikable person.

Yesterday, we stopped by to eat and when he was in the bathroom one of them joked that he was the “token annoying friend” and every group of friends has one… That puzzled me. Why? Why put up with such a rude and unpleasant person?

Even worse he has a girlfriend and around her he is super nice and friendly, why allow him to deceive the poor girl? Isn’t that immoral? Should she be warned about his true colors?

[Razade]

So, I have been going out with this group of people in the hopes of finding friendship, it’s been great so far they are nice and interesting expect for this one guy.

He is very rude, the kind of guy who use insults such as “cuck”, “fag”, “beta male” etc..
They invited me to play a silly computer game with them and when I asked for help and advice he just said “get gud skrub” and overall being an annoying and unlikable person.

While those may be conceived as annoying terms (cuck and beta male generally get an eye roll from me) the get good might just...be part of his humor that doesn't grok with you but the rest are fine with.

Yesterday, we stopped by to eat and when he was in the bathroom one of them joked that he was the “token annoying friend” and every group of friends has one… That puzzled me. Why? Why put up with such a rude and unpleasant person?

Well obviously they don't find him unpleasant.

Even worse he has a girlfriend and around her he is super nice and friendly, why allow him to deceive the poor girl? Isn’t that immoral? Should she be warned about his true colors?

First of all, why do you assume he's deceiving her and that his kindness and friendliness isn't genunie? She's his girlfriend, she probably knows him a lot better than you do and spends more time with him. Even if there's actual abuse (and....you have no way of knowing) don't get involved with other people's relationships unless they very directly ask you to and even then do your best to keep distance when they do.

[thorgrim29]

I would advise not getting mixed up in a couple's business unless you have reason to think one of them is in danger. To the main subject though... I don't know, inertia and fear of awkwardness mostly I guess. Maybe the person was nice originally or was a friend of somebody else who drifted away from the group, and now it's just more trouble than it's worth to get rid of them, especially if you have the same extended social circle. That or he's annoying in some ways but makes up for it in others. Maybe he's very loyal, maybe he's a ton of fun at parties, maybe he has a pool.

[Honest Tiefling]

They might not find him annoying, but rather, find him amusing. If you don't like him, try to hang out with the people WITHOUT him. Just invite them along and don't mention it to him. But I think it would be better to tell him that you really don't appreciate his behavior, so if he could tone it down that'd be great. If he gets bent out of shape he's a jerk. If the group picks him over you, then they'd rather be around the token 'annoying' friend then you. Their loss, you can find new friends that appreciate friendly people so you really haven't lost anything.

As for the girlfriend, that's her business. You don't know her, let her make her own decisions, she's an adult. But the fact that he's willing to be different around her might mean that his group of friends have been intentionally or unintentionally encouraging. Maybe he knows he doesn't appreciate that type of humor so he doesn't do with her and lets loose around those he thinks will appreciate it?

It could be an issue that he's been around so long or he's related to someone or was there for some event or whatever that they feel like they CAN'T get rid of him without hurting his feelings. But as the newcomer, I don't think it's helpful or a good idea to speculate like that and just accept that you can either hang out with them without him or tell him how you feel.

[JeenLeen]

So, I have been going out with this group of people in the hopes of finding friendship, it’s been great so far they are nice and interesting expect for this one guy.

He is very rude, the kind of guy who use insults such as “cuck”, “fag”, “beta male” etc..
They invited me to play a silly computer game with them and when I asked for help and advice he just said “get gud skrub” and overall being an annoying and unlikable person.

In my inner circle of friends, one guy is at times a jerk to others. He views negative reinforcement as the way to help his friends, so he is insulting and derogatory a lot. We enjoy his company for other reasons, and accept that as a facet of his personality and worldview. We have called him on it and he's toned it down, but I could see a newcomer to our group being put off by it.

This guy sounds more extreme, I admit, but probably other aspects counter-weigh it, or they understand him to see past it.

Even worse he has a girlfriend and around her he is super nice and friendly, why allow him to deceive the poor girl? Isn’t that immoral? Should she be warned about his true colors?

He may be showing his real colors around the girlfriend, and his annoying demeanor is his 'friends' demeanor. When I'm with my friends, we tend to joke sometimes as if we are sociopaths, but that's a mask that's fun to interact with with one another, not our true colors. This could be similar.

[BWR]

What everyone else said.
You are the outsider, you are the one with the least amount of information, you are the one who doesn't really know what you're talking about. You may not want to learn more to see if your current opinion is an accurate and valid one, and that is your right, but don't assume you know everything there is to know about the people involved.

More generally, sometimes people hang out with others not just because they like them but also out of a sense of pity. They may not consider X to be their best friend or even a particularly good one, but X is still a friend of sorts and needs some social support. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if I fell into this category with some of my friends.

Lastly, sometimes people just rub others the wrong way without there being any malice or intentional rudeness on either side. Some people are just bad at moderating behavior to accommodate people who aren't used to their friendly behavior.

[2D8HP]

Why?

Years of practice.








That really is the answer.

Also, don't mess with the couple. At least one of them will get angry with you, and you don't want that.

[Knaight]

They might genuinely like the guy despite his more annoying traits. With that said, the group dynamic where there's someone in a group that nobody else actually likes who just stays in the group because none of the rest of the people want to make waves is absolutely a thing. There are certain circles where this is even more prevalent, and nerd circles are one of them. See: GSF 1.

[Shamash]

So, I have been going out with this group of people in the hopes of finding friendship, it’s been great so far they are nice and interesting expect for this one guy.

He is very rude, the kind of guy who use insults such as “cuck”, “fag”, “beta male” etc..
They invited me to play a silly computer game with them and when I asked for help and advice he just said “get gud skrub” and overall being an annoying and unlikable person.

Yesterday, we stopped by to eat and when he was in the bathroom one of them joked that he was the “token annoying friend” and every group of friends has one… That puzzled me. Why? Why put up with such a rude and unpleasant person?

Even worse he has a girlfriend and around her he is super nice and friendly, why allow him to deceive the poor girl? Isn’t that immoral? Should she be warned about his true colors?

Dude; don't get in the way of a guy and his girl! That's just common sense!

To me at least friends are less a thing of choice and more a thing of proximity, my best friends are people I met at school or work, they are not super similar to me but I feel like I can really trust them a lot since we went tough a lot together, they don't share the same interests or even personality I think that if we weren’t forced together we wouldn't be friends at all.

In my experience at least I feel that friendship is more like a food that is offered for you and you choose if you want it or no than a menu that you can choose the dish you prefer.

Maybe this guy is a childhood friend of them, or maybe they used to live next door, I dunno but sometimes you are friends with someone who is different from you, to tell the truth MOST OF THE time that is how it goes.

By the looks of it you are new to this "friendship thing" so my advice is, get use to it since you can't pick friends like flowers if you join a group of friends you will get the nice ones and the *******s.

[Kyberwulf]

Don't put up with him. Let them especially him know that it bothers you. If the don't like it they will let you know you are the weakest link. You can go on your way. If you actually made friends in the group, they will probably get a hold of you to see if thou will hang out sans "alpha" man. Don't just go along with it. That is horrible advice. That just makes superficial friendships.

About the girl thing. Don't just go along with that either. If he is deceiving her, you are an accomplice. I am not saying take her aside and be all "I have something to tell you" about it. Just don't pretend you like him, or that his "good nature" is normal.

This guy sounds like the token mouthpiece. The kind of guy you keep around because he says and does stuff you want to say but don't have the wherewithal to say it yourself.

[Cozzer]

Yesterday, we stopped by to eat and when he was in the bathroom one of them joked that he was the “token annoying friend” and every group of friends has one… That puzzled me. Why? Why put up with such a rude and unpleasant person?

Eh. It's true that in most groups there's at least a person who comes of as annoying to "newcomers". They can't all be well-adjusted and likeable, after all. There can be a lot of reasons why the others won't ditch him. Maybe he was less annoying in the past and the others just got used to his annoyingness, since it came gradually. Maybe his particular brand of annoyingness doesn't really annoy the others that much, or maybe he brings something to the table that compensates for his annoyingness.

There are usually several reasons at once, some of them good and some of them bad. It's not my or your place to judge them, though.

Even worse he has a girlfriend and around her he is super nice and friendly, why allow him to deceive the poor girl? Isn’t that immoral? Should she be warned about his true colors?

In general, you shouldn't assume that you know someone who's barely an aquaintance better than his girlfriend knows him. Or assume that the "super nice and friendly" part of a person is "less true" than his "annoying" part.

Honestly, since you've been talking about the fact that you don't have much experience in social situations, I would greatly advise you to assume you don't know better than others, at least for the time being. Assume the reasons why the other friends don't ditch him are good, or at least reasonable reasons. Assume he's a genuinely good guy with his girlfriend and his annoying traits are just him not being good at social situations and overcompensating.

Keep interacting with the people you actually like, and enjoy their company. Each group of friends has its own dynamics, and they will become apparent to you with time. I would strongly advise you not to take any action before that point.

[Winter_Wolf]

Dude, The Eye, man listen: that guy is annoying to you. I have a friend or two like the guy you've described, and he's not always like that, but he is like that with his friends. That's generally how people operate. You don't want to hang with him socially, then don't. No one has a gun to your head, do they?

Stay out of other people's relationships. If the guy acts differently around his girlfriend, that's just as much who he is as how he acts when she's not around, and I'm sure she knows that better than you. I act way different around my wife than I do around my friends because I have a different kind of relationship with her; it's not that she doesn't know but trust me when I say she's got her relationship personality and friend personality as well. If you want to act like some kind of white knight, do it in an rpg and not by interfering in real people's personal relationships.

[warty goblin]

A major component of a lot of male friendships is being basically horrible to each other, or one person being basically horrible to the others. This doesn't mean the friendship isn't genuine, or that the people being horrible are actually horrible, it's simply the way that friendship manifests. Quite likely everybody involves basically enjoys it, even if it's not a style of relationship that works for you.

[The Eye]

Well I'm not planning to do anything guys, call down I apologize if that is what my post made it look like.

I just don't get how people can deal with it and act as if it was something normal, I guess my lack of experience is a contributing factor for me not getting this stuff.

He is very good at shooting games, and they all play the same game (Overwatch), maybe that’s an factor. I also don’t enjoy shooting games so maybe we are just too different (in special shooting games where 5 years old can snipe and headshot you)

[Red Fel]

Well I'm not planning to do anything guys, call down I apologize if that is what my post made it look like.

I just don't get how people can deal with it and act as if it was something normal, I guess my lack of experience is a contributing factor for me not getting this stuff.

Sometimes, it's because friends have a history. Maybe his becoming a jerk is a relatively recent thing, so they still maintain the friendship based on who he was, as opposed to who he is.

Sometimes, it's because friends are complicated. As others have mentioned, maybe this particular behavior is just one layer, and there is more to him than these jokes.

Sometimes, it's a bit of delusion or misplaced loyalty. By way of illustration, I had a friend who turned out to be a genuinely toxic person. But because of my own sense of loyalty, I didn't want to ditch this friend, and that ended up dragging me down for some time. Eventually, I moved away (for unrelated reasons) and the friendship finally dissolved; distance lent clarity, in that case.

There are a lot of reasons. But perhaps most importantly, none of them apply to you. You don't have that history. You don't have that personal knowledge of this person. And that means that, if you find this person repugnant, or otherwise don't want to give him a chance, you don't have to be friends with him. The fact that other people are friends with him doesn't mean you have to be. The fact that friends of yours are friends with him doesn't mean you have to be (although it would be advisable to remain civil, at least).

Not every circle has a "token annoying friend." That tends to be more true of less mature people than more mature ones, I find, in that the latter are sufficiently self-possessed and confident enough to say, "No, mate, cut that out." A lot of people in their younger years feel that they have to keep the token annoying friend around - either because he whines if left out, or because a parent said they had to include him, or because they pity him, or because they secretly enjoy mocking him when he leaves the table - but as you grow, you realize you don't need that in your life.

Again, however, they are a pre-existing circle. It's not your place to say, "Hey, let's ditch him." They'll realize it on their own time, or they won't.

[Winter_Wolf]

FWIW he might just be treating you like one of the group because he actually likes you. It may grow on you if you give it a chance. Then again it may not; I've had several friends I never expected to befriend, and several people I've found intensely unlikeable the more I've come to know them despite initially thinking we'd be good friends.

In any case I might come across as belligerent when talking/writing you, but it's me trying to be direct because I get the sense from your posts you appreciate directness. Generally it comes across better when I say things than when I write them. Ironic considering for the most part how little I enjoy talking to people and yet seem to be constantly doing work that relies on talking to people.

Then again I apparently have an abundance of "dark triad" traits.

[Grinner]

Not every circle has a "token annoying friend." That tends to be more true of less mature people than more mature ones, I find, in that the latter are sufficiently self-possessed and confident enough to say, "No, mate, cut that out." A lot of people in their younger years feel that they have to keep the token annoying friend around - either because he whines if left out, or because a parent said they had to include him, or because they pity him, or because they secretly enjoy mocking him when he leaves the table - but as you grow, you realize you don't need that in your life.

Funny story. I had a group of friends somewhat like this in high school. One day, we decided to ditch the "token annoying guy" during lunch, and that was the most boring lunch period we ever had. I suppose his juvenile antics would be seen as, well...juvenile, now, but his chaotic input into our social dynamic seemed to provide a sustaining stimulus.

I bumped into him some years later, and sure enough, life seems to have tempered him somewhat.

[tensai_oni]

A major component of a lot of male friendships is being basically horrible to each other, or one person being basically horrible to the others. This doesn't mean the friendship isn't genuine, or that the people being horrible are actually horrible, it's simply the way that friendship manifests. Quite likely everybody involves basically enjoys it, even if it's not a style of relationship that works for you.

Yeah, no.

The truth is, there's a lot of friendship circles where there's the designated jerk, the designated punching bag, both, or people basically being a-holes to each other. But that doesn't mean these social circles are healthy. They still exist but they need neither encouragement nor propagation.

Anyway, to OP: there are levels of what different people find annoying. Behavior that you find annoying may be acceptable to others, especially if they know the person perpetrating that behavior on a more intimate level.

However, there should be limits. When someone communicates like a typical 4chan /pol/ post, you need to ask yourself - not only do I want to stay in touch with this kind of person, but do I want to stay in touch with other people who are well aware of their friend's behavior but do nothing about it. This isn't just hanging out with the token annoying guy or the class clown. We're talking behavior that is highly unwelcome in normal, polite company.

Unless it's all some kind of joke/ironic meme regurgigation and everyone's in on it except for you, but in that case it just shows the social circle in question is so well-integrated that it might be a problem for an outsider to mesh well with it.

[AMFV]

Yeah, no.

The truth is, there's a lot of friendship circles where there's the designated jerk, the designated punching bag, both, or people basically being a-holes to each other. But that doesn't mean these social circles are healthy. They still exist but they need neither encouragement nor propagation.

Anyway, to OP: there are levels of what different people find annoying. Behavior that you find annoying may be acceptable to others, especially if they know the person perpetrating that behavior on a more intimate level.

However, there should be limits. When someone communicates like a typical 4chan /pol/ post, you need to ask yourself - not only do I want to stay in touch with this kind of person, but do I want to stay in touch with other people who are well aware of their friend's behavior but do nothing about it. This isn't just hanging out with the token annoying guy or the class clown. We're talking behavior that is highly unwelcome in normal, polite company.

Unless it's all some kind of joke/ironic meme regurgigation and everyone's in on it except for you, but in that case it just shows the social circle in question is so well-integrated that it might be a problem for an outsider to mesh well with it.

Yeah, no.

You do not get to define what social standards are acceptable for other groups. Period. I'm in the military (first active now the guard), and I work in construction, a lot of people who I would trust with my life, who I would literally die for, are way worse than a 4chan /Pol/ post in terms of what they say. And they're good people, they might just be a little rougher around the edges. But it's alright because they aren't in normal "polite" company, they're around their friends in a place where people might die or be seriously injured any day, where being soft is a weakness and there's nothing wrong with rough edges in that kind of environment.

[Kyberwulf]

Yeah, ni.


You don't get to define what's acceptable for other people either.

You expressly just stated you aren't in normal society. Not only that, for the most part. You are in an abnormal situation. You don't get to choose who you are grouped with. You have to make the best out of a bad situation.

[Cozzer]

Or maybe none of us is even remotely close to having enough info on the situation that they can make an educated guess at its meaning. And both the "No, the situation TheEye described is normal!" posts and the "No, the situation TheEye described is a problem!" posts are people projecting what happened to them on a situation they don't know anything about.

[Scarlet Knight]

Funny story. I had a group of friends somewhat like this in high school. One day, we decided to ditch the "token annoying guy" during lunch, and that was the most boring lunch period we ever had. I suppose his juvenile antics would be seen as, well...juvenile, now, but his chaotic input into our social dynamic seemed to provide a sustaining stimulus.

This is common in many TV shows where there is one annoying guy/gal who gets the best lines.

In the Battle of 5 Armies movie Bilbo says "I know that dwarves can be obstinate and pigheaded and difficult. They're suspicious and secretive, with the *worst* manners you can possibly imagine. But they are also brave and kind, and loyal to a fault. I've grown very fond of them..."

So with annoying friends, we grow fond of them and accept their faults as the price of their friendship.

[AMFV]

Yeah, ni.


You don't get to define what's acceptable for other people either.

You expressly just stated you aren't in normal society. Not only that, for the most part. You are in an abnormal situation. You don't get to choose who you are grouped with. You have to make the best out of a bad situation.

First, having to spend time with soldiers and construction workers isn't a "bad situation". And while I might not choose my friends I can tell you that I would much rather have the politically incorrect unfit for polite society folks than anybody else.


Second, I'm not saying that you should be forced to hang out with my friends who call each other slurs and insult each other. I'm saying that if you (as Tenasai did) say that you can judge the quality of these people based on the title of their personal interaction then you're far worse than you are judging them to be.

Third, it isn't an "uncommon" situation it is literally that way in every dangerous blue collar job I have worked, and in non dangerous blue collar fare as well. It's a culture that you may not be a part of or understand which means that you should not condemn it until you do.

[Mikemical]

So, I have been going out with this group of people in the hopes of finding friendship, it’s been great so far they are nice and interesting expect for this one guy.

He is very rude, the kind of guy who use insults such as “cuck”, “fag”, “beta male” etc..
They invited me to play a silly computer game with them and when I asked for help and advice he just said “get gud skrub” and overall being an annoying and unlikable person.

Yesterday, we stopped by to eat and when he was in the bathroom one of them joked that he was the “token annoying friend” and every group of friends has one… That puzzled me. Why? Why put up with such a rude and unpleasant person?

Even worse he has a girlfriend and around her he is super nice and friendly, why allow him to deceive the poor girl? Isn’t that immoral? Should she be warned about his true colors?

Your opinion is not an objective truth. When you start to understand that the rest of the world doesn't think or feel the exact same way you do, you'll start understanding people a lot better than with your current outlook. What you perceive as mean and rude comments might be his idea of making humor to entertain and make people laugh, much like Stand-Up comedians or Roasters such as Louis C.K., Chris Rock, Dave Chapelle, etc.

He may be showing his real colors around the girlfriend, and his annoying demeanor is his 'friends' demeanor. When I'm with my friends, we tend to joke sometimes as if we are sociopaths, but that's a mask that's fun to interact with with one another, not our true colors. This could be similar.

It's a good thing that with both my friends and my girlfriend I can do this. We're admitedly a group where the roles are passed around like it was a game of hot potato. Today's annoying friend might be tomorrow's voice of reason, the guy we make fun of saying he's a lolicon might be the one calling you a pedophile a couple hours later, and so forth. Our games of Cards Against Humanity are rather fun.

[Frozen_Feet]

There's different kinds of "annoying". Some people act superficially badly towards their friends because they are friends and can trust that their behaviour won't break their bond. Others act superficially badly as a matter of humour and they either hope or expect there is a shared understanding of what they're aiming for. Yet others act badly because they honestly can't help it, and their friends put up with them despite of it, usually because that person still brings something else positive to their lives.

And some are just ********s who their friends mistake for one of the above.

A lot of this is context-dependant. The annoying person mentioned in the first post is clearly *****-whipped... errr, I mean he is socially conscious to clean his act before his girlfriend, for whatever reason. It could be a ruse, it could be he honestly cares more about her than his guy friends, it could be she has him under her heel. Point is: guys' night out is different social context than "Oh crap my girlfriend is here!" It's pretty unnoteworthy if people act differently in the presence of their romantic interests.

One of my friend's friends asked me about my friend's little sister: "How do you cope with that?" Because said sister is always needling me about whatever. My response was: "I only tolerate her because she's pretty." Very deliberately, as she was sitting right behind me. She responded "why do we put up with you, then?"

The actual answer, though, is that sometimes I feel like roping someone into my crazy schemes, and she's happy to be roped into crazy schemes when it's on someone else's expense. Together, we commit... errr, fight crime. Or something.

[ThurlRavenscrof]

The friend who you think it annoying described himself as annoying so you clearly aren't overreacting. My question is do the other friends consider him annoying?

[2D8HP]

...I'm in the military (first active now the guard), and I work in construction, a lot of people....

Yeah, sure.

Just agreeing with AMFV.

I worked construction for over a decade, and now I do building repairs for the City and County of San Francisco, and while I'm not ex-military myself, many maybe most of the cops and deputies, plus a lot of "Engineering" are ex-military or in the reserves, and he's correct that a lot of the banter will seem rude and even cruel to outsiders (I know I have to considerably tone down my humor when communicating with non-coworkers).

In my first month as an Apprentice plumber, a Journeyman told me "Kid, you don't curse enough. We're going to teach you to curse."

He was right, they did!

Yeah, ni...

Heh.

"Ni" still cracks me up.

[FreddyNoNose]

Why?

Also, don't mess with the couple. At least one of them will get angry with you, and you don't want that.

A quick way to become an social outcast!

[Xyril]

A quick way to become an social outcast!

Don't listen to this guy, OP. Everyone knows than nothing ingratiates you with a group better than showing them how--in only the short amount of time you've known them all--you were able to resolve a problem that they were either too stupid to notice or too lazy to fix in the long time they've all known each other.

[Mikemical]

Don't listen to this guy, OP. Everyone knows than nothing ingratiates you with a group better than showing them how--in only the short amount of time you've known them all--you were able to resolve a problem that they were either too stupid to notice or too lazy to fix in the long time they've all known each other.

This is sarcasm, OP.