Villainous Competition XX​II: I Am The Night!

[Buufreak]

I was referring to deadline's comment, which in turn refers to your inquiry on whether to put CR+0 or CR+1--both of which can be RAW, but can be disputed by judges

In that case, I think one of us is misunderstanding the other. I actually have no idea what the template in question is, and I'm not going to dig through books in an effort to find out. The submission will do that for me here in a week or so. I also never asked about which would be applied, I asked about a template that kicks someone immediately to 20HD from a book that has been deemed out of this contests scope.

[ben-zayb]

In that case, I think one of us is misunderstanding the other. I actually have no idea what the template in question is, and I'm not going to dig through books in an effort to find out. The submission will do that for me here in a week or so. I also never asked about which would be applied, I asked about a template that kicks someone immediately to 20HD from a book that has been deemed out of this contests scope.

Haha, it's Florian's inquiry, not yours. My bad

[zlefin]

Interesting, I'm gonna see if I can come up with an interesting build for this. especially as my attempts to play actual games on here always fall throguh, games collapse too often. so just straight up building may be nicer.

are there existing standards about advancing things in racial HD beyond the level listed in the monster entry? getting up to cr 20 is quite a ways, and I'm not sure how many class levels I'd want to add.

[Buufreak]

Interesting, I'm gonna see if I can come up with an interesting build for this. especially as my attempts to play actual games on here always fall throguh, games collapse too often. so just straight up building may be nicer.

are there existing standards about advancing things in racial HD beyond the level listed in the monster entry? getting up to cr 20 is quite a ways, and I'm not sure how many class levels I'd want to add.

I believe the standard is "not supported by regular game play and RAW, and therefore a target for point deductions."

[Hackulator]

man my entry is pretty much done and there is so much time left, what do

[daremetoidareyo]

man my entry is pretty much done and there is so much time left, what do

Edit it again in 2 days. Then submit. In the meantime, you can help optimize the shadowstaff, perhaps?

[zlefin]

are these supposed to be BBEG grade villains, or can they just be general villains?

[PrismCat21]

are these supposed to be BBEG grade villains, or can they just be general villains?

Any kind of villian you want.
Think Star Wars for a moment. The Emperor, Grand Moff Tarkin, Lord Vader, Jabba the Hurt, and Boba Fett were all villains in their own right. The Sarlacc Pit and Wampa were not.
Make something that feels like a villian and make sure we know why.

[Florian]

IThe submission will do that for me here in a week or so.

My problem is this: The template makes you decide the CR issue on a "style" or "substance" basis.
Looking at the rough CR20 build I have so far, it´s clearly "style". But I want to present the full done CR5 build so it´s useable in a lower-level campaign, here, and only here, the template has real "substance". This is vexing me a bit right now.

[Deadline]

I've got no free time at all these days, so I won't be participating or judging. So I'll join the spectators in the stands and eagerly await your villainous builds!

Hopefully Real Life will allow me to participate in the next comp.

[daremetoidareyo]

It depends on the number of entries, but I might be able to judge.

[CIDE]

I'm just going to come out with it. We're not counting the super warrior wizards of Naruto-verse as decent analogues for "ninja" here, right? 'cause like...actual ninja stuff vanished halfway through part 1 of that series.

[zlefin]

there's gonna be a few oddities in handling cr increases, and not sure how to fill it into the table. like when adding racial hd increases size, that could cause the cr to skip over a cr value entirely. are we supposed to use the suggested +1 cr for using elite stat array if we don't use any class levels?

guidance helpful, if not i'll just eyeball it and make a best guess.

[GrayDeath]

I have a feeling that all the entries will be super powerful on their own but will get rekt if they fight the PCs in a group.

Well......

Also: Dang, Ninjas.

I have absolutely no Idea for that Competition.

But copious amounts of free time till the 12th.

Why couldn`t it have been the last Comp, why?!!?



Nah, Ninjas are cool, lets see if I can get some inspiration.

[Thurbane]

there's gonna be a few oddities in handling cr increases, and not sure how to fill it into the table. like when adding racial hd increases size, that could cause the cr to skip over a cr value entirely. are we supposed to use the suggested +1 cr for using elite stat array if we don't use any class levels?

guidance helpful, if not i'll just eyeball it and make a best guess.

I would suggest looking at some past entries and see how they handle it. If the CR jumps due to size etc. I'd recommend just jumping straight from, say, CR 4 to CR 6, so the table wouldn't have a CR 5 entry. And you can always tweak the table to better suit your entry (although if you make it too difficult to read/understand, the judges might penalize your entry).

In regards to elite array, AFAIK that has never carried a CR increase in this comp.

[Inevitability]

I'm just going to come out with it. We're not counting the super warrior wizards of Naruto-verse as decent analogues for "ninja" here, right? 'cause like...actual ninja stuff vanished halfway through part 1 of that series.

In theory, that's up to judges to decide, and I can't give any meaningful answer here.

In practice, I doubt such a broad definition will be used by any of them (especially not when it's the competition's sole criterium), and don't recommend super warrior wizards.

[GrayDeath]

Good, that does somewhat reduce my worries (see the old thread, I wrote the same thing^^).

[ben-zayb]

Good, that does somewhat reduce my worries (see the old thread, I wrote the same thing^^).

That's the thing with multiple ways to view a ninja, though. You got the supposed "realistic" shinobi exploits, which is basically just oriental-flavored assassin. Then you got the more mystical version, allegedly they themselves spread, to make them appear more legendary and larger than life. Both are pretty well represented across all media, old and new, but Naruto understandably gets the flak because they really went balls-in with the mystical stuff.

[Hackulator]

That's the thing with multiple ways to view a ninja, though. You got the supposed "realistic" shinobi exploits, which is basically just oriental-flavored assassin. Then you got the more mystical version, allegedly they themselves spread, to make them appear more legendary and larger than life. Both are pretty well represented across all media, old and new, but Naruto understandably gets the flak because they really went balls-in with the mystical stuff.

They went beyond just balls-in with mystical ninjitsu, plenty of the characters in Naruto are just wizards. If Naruto ninja is the bar you have to reach I feel like this might be the least restricted contest ever lol.

[Florian]

I'm just going to come out with it. We're not counting the super warrior wizards of Naruto-verse as decent analogues for "ninja" here, right? 'cause like...actual ninja stuff vanished halfway through part 1 of that series.

I don't know Naruto at all, but I can think what you mean with it.

The "ninja" trope and D&D has the usual problem that you come to different conclusions how to reach that trope based on whether you look at modeling the trope by itself, or you look at the whole set of D&D mechanics to see how to make the trope viable under that totally changed conditions.

[GrayDeath]

Well, there are huge gaps between "mystic Ninja" and Narutos Sorcerers/Wizards, so yeah, the not tight but existent restriction is appreciated.

Still have not been jumped by an idea....maybe I should walk into a dark back alley? ^^

[Buufreak]

I don't know Naruto at all, but I can think what you mean with it.

The "ninja" trope and D&D has the usual problem that you come to different conclusions how to reach that trope based on whether you look at modeling the trope by itself, or you look at the whole set of D&D mechanics to see how to make the trope viable under that totally changed conditions.

Most naruto characters would fit as shugenja, with mild variances in elemental schools, like the inclusion of a lightning school. There is also opposed schools like shugenja normally do, but it's less opposite elements and more a genetic disposition thing.

Of course, I never watched much of shipuden, so retcons could make me a liar.

[GrayDeath]

Nah, that fits pretty well, with the exception of some really really special Ninja that is (which are more alike Tristalt Wizards, Psions, Swordsages for example).

Generally speaking aside from mid to late Shippuden the original lookout stays the same, with rising power levels. of course.

[Thurbane]

Hit a major snag in my initial build, but I've re-jigged it and I'm happy with the result.

[Jormengand]

See, there's three builds I want to make but a maximum of 2 entries per competitor. Worse, the limit is entirely my fault.

[daremetoidareyo]

All of my ideas aren't ninja-y enough. I wanted to make a pile of ninjas type character for good guys hack through, but doing it with my brain and not using some sort of minionmancy invariably moves me into weird rules territory.

[zlefin]

I don't know if I'll put in the time to get my build properly done; I have a rough outline of what it's like. I suppose if I fail to make something on time I can always just wait til after builds are posted or something and just talk about what I was going to do.

[Florian]

I´m currently annoyed with my "build". I don´t like how the later levels "feel".

[Hackulator]

My build is pretty much completely finished in my head I just haven't worked up the motivation to actually write it all down.

[GrayDeath]

See, there's three builds I want to make but a maximum of 2 entries per competitor. Worse, the limit is entirely my fault.

Out-source one build 8ergo build the concept well enough for someone else to finish and let them do it)!

Might help those among us who hit snags, or (like myself) still completely lack a really fun to build Idea....