Personal Woes and Advice 5

[Jon_Dahl]

Ouch. My condolences. Having had a few teachers that were a bit short on sanity points, I fully understand. Is there anyway you can go in during their office hours and try and reclaim some points? Essays can be interpreted a number of ways, and sometimes you can talk your way into a few extra points, especially if the question could be interpreted multiple ways (note: if you are going to try for that, go prepared). If that scenario is unlikely, I would still recommend meeting with them. Many teachers may be a bit more lenient if you show up to talk to them, even if you show up just asking for some clarification. Some times they are willing to give extra help, or explain things in a different way (which may give insight to the insanity). Note: this only applies early in the quarter/semester. If you wait until just before finals, there will be probably be no sympathy.

Thank you. Before I read your post, I had sent her an e-mail asking that I could try to improve my grade with two essays, but my essays' length requirement would be half of the normal because I have already done the exam. If she wants me to write two full essays and thus completely ignores my two-hour-exam, in which I answered all the questions with lengthy and detailed responses, it means that she just wants me to suffer and there is nothing I can do about it.

[kgato503]

Thank you. Before I read your post, I had sent her an e-mail asking that I could try to improve my grade with two essays, but my essays' length requirement would be half of the normal because I have already done the exam. If she wants me to write two full essays and thus completely ignores my two-hour-exam, in which I answered all the questions with lengthy and detailed responses, it means that she just wants me to suffer and there is nothing I can do about it.

Ah. Not just insane, but sadistic as well...My experience there is a little more limited. Along the lines of grin, bear it, and curse them out behind their backs where they have no hope of overhearing you (at least until the grades are finalized, and there is no chance of you ever having them again). Out of curiosity, what is the subject at hand, what kind of lengths are you looking at for the essays, and what kind of timeline do you have for completion (its fine if you don't want to answer)? Also, are the reasons for the failing grade at least reasonable? There might be other avenues to pursue if the only reason the essays were graded to be failing was for subjective reasoning (aka, the teacher didn't like an opinion presented, as opposed to actual facts being wrong). Granted, those kind of avenues might take longer, and you would have to have a strong case for it, but it might not be outside the realm of possibility.

[Chen]

Thank you. Before I read your post, I had sent her an e-mail asking that I could try to improve my grade with two essays, but my essays' length requirement would be half of the normal because I have already done the exam. If she wants me to write two full essays and thus completely ignores my two-hour-exam, in which I answered all the questions with lengthy and detailed responses, it means that she just wants me to suffer and there is nothing I can do about it.

Wait, what? If your exam wasn't sufficient to pass, why would she let you write shorter essays because of it? if you're trying to make up for a failing grade I'd think you'd want to present essays that are as complete as possible to show you know the subject matter.

[Comrade]

I realize that sort of thing can feel very humiliating - I'm speaking as a pretty-good-at-people person who was formely a completely-ungood-at-people person - but that means you should go more often, not less. Being social is a skill like any other, and the way you get good at any skill is by being bad at it a lot of times. Not being good at people yet isn't an eternal judgement on who you are as a person, it's just a skill you've not leveled up enough yet.

I don't mean to say that you should force yourself to become a party butterfly if you're an introvert, but developing a basic level of skill in your weakest areas can really improve your life. You was willing to step outside your confort zone by going to that party by yourself and putting yourself in a situation you wasn't sure you would be able to deal with. That's something to feel pride about, not shame.

Agreed. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, Sholos, but you shouldn't let it dissuade you. Putting yourself out there and taking those risks (and sometimes doing the social equivalent of this), as difficult as it can feel, is the only way you grow and adapt. The alternative is just never going places for fear of having another bad experience, which is understandable, but also is not going to do you any good, short-term or long-term.

[Tvtyrant]

Thank you. Before I read your post, I had sent her an e-mail asking that I could try to improve my grade with two essays, but my essays' length requirement would be half of the normal because I have already done the exam. If she wants me to write two full essays and thus completely ignores my two-hour-exam, in which I answered all the questions with lengthy and detailed responses, it means that she just wants me to suffer and there is nothing I can do about it.

You haven't told us why exactly you are failing, but letting you do extra work to recover your grade is a courtesy and generally involves something at least as onerous as the original assignment. If you fail an exam for instance you are usually either required to do an equivalent exam or write a long essay to recover that grade, you don't get to use the failed exam as a bargaining point.

[Jon_Dahl]

Thank you, kgato503. I've been so pissed of a few days now. She want let me try to improve failed grade with two half-length essays. She says that I have to take exam again... And there's more...

You haven't told us why exactly you are failing, but letting you do extra work to recover your grade is a courtesy and generally involves something at least as onerous as the original assignment. If you fail an exam for instance you are usually either required to do an equivalent exam or write a long essay to recover that grade, you don't get to use the failed exam as a bargaining point.

She said that "I write a lot but there's little in my text" and "I fail to get basic terms right". I said that in my experience getting a couple of terms wrong in an ESSAY EXAM is hardly any reason fail a student, but she simply said that "I disagree". I hope you understand how crazy that sort of an attitude is. For instance, if you write four 200-word essays in an exam and you get two terms wrong there, it's an F for you. Plain and simple. And what was worse was that I didn't remember how to write a certain word and I failed to get it correct. I wrote that word only once in the essays. Once. Do you know what she did? She said that she "didn't know what that word means", although it was clear that it was just written wrong. Like if you study psychology (a freshman) and you write schizophrenia wrong and after the exam your professor tells you that she didn't understand what "schitzophernia" is. That has to count as harassment, right?

[dehro]

eh.. no?
maybe too severe, maybe she's a stickler for things way more than she should be, maybe the terms you got wrong she considers or are considered basic and you should not have made those mistakes. by your initial comment, it seems she had an issue with the content of your essays, more so than with the couple of miss-spellings. Judging the content of an essay is a fairly subjective endeavour, and it can happen that one feels treated unfairly.. and sometimes it's even true.
doesn't really qualify as harrasment though. That's something entirely different.
you failed her class. Suck it up and retake her exams, or focus on your next exams.

[Chen]

She said that "I write a lot but there's little in my text" and "I fail to get basic terms right". I said that in my experience getting a couple of terms wrong in an ESSAY EXAM is hardly any reason fail a student, but she simply said that "I disagree". I hope you understand how crazy that sort of an attitude is. For instance, if you write four 200-word essays in an exam and you get two terms wrong there, it's an F for you. Plain and simple. And what was worse was that I didn't remember how to write a certain word and I failed to get it correct. I wrote that word only once in the essays. Once. Do you know what she did? She said that she "didn't know what that word means", although it was clear that it was just written wrong. Like if you study psychology (a freshman) and you write schizophrenia wrong and after the exam your professor tells you that she didn't understand what "schitzophernia" is. That has to count as harassment, right?

Thats a whole bunch of entitlement there. Honestly the first sentence seems to imply, in a more polite way, that you’re just bull****ting your way through an essay question.

The basic terms thing may be a bit severe but without more context I cant make a firm judgement on it.

[kgato503]

She said that "I write a lot but there's little in my text" and "I fail to get basic terms right". I said that in my experience getting a couple of terms wrong in an ESSAY EXAM is hardly any reason fail a student, but she simply said that "I disagree". I hope you understand how crazy that sort of an attitude is. For instance, if you write four 200-word essays in an exam and you get two terms wrong there, it's an F for you. Plain and simple. And what was worse was that I didn't remember how to write a certain word and I failed to get it correct. I wrote that word only once in the essays. Once. Do you know what she did? She said that she "didn't know what that word means", although it was clear that it was just written wrong. Like if you study psychology (a freshman) and you write schizophrenia wrong and after the exam your professor tells you that she didn't understand what "schitzophernia" is. That has to count as harassment, right?

Harassment? Probably not. Depending where you're at, and the definition in use, I understand it it has to be either reoccurring or particularly directed at you or a small sub group to count as harassment. If she did this sort of thing to you, and only you, for every assignment, it might count. Unless you can prove she is singling you out, it probably doesn't count.

There is a big difference between knowing how to spell a word and what the word means. Different minds work differently, and one that spells well may not remember definitions well, and vice-versa (as someone with a large vocabulary, but who can't spell to save their life most of the time, I strongly sympathize). Was a syllabus given out at the beginning of the term? Did the syllabus or a passage for the essay exam cover her expectations for the quality of the essays? If not, later down the road you might be able to try and go higher up the chain of command and draw attention to her unreal expectations (again, make sure you have as much evidence to support your case as possible). Note: do this only when/if she will not be in a position to retaliate against you in the future. I cannot stress that enough!

Unfortunately, for the time being, I'm afraid about the only advice I can give is grit your teeth and get through it. That is ultimately what I ended up doing in the past with teachers who I felt were grossly unfair/insane, provided going up the ladder was not an option (or didn't work out well/satisfactory). I'll spare the horror stories, but sometimes you just have to get through the tough patch and put it behind you. And warn everyone you know to avoid that teacher like the plague if at all possible! At the risk of saying something you already know, make sure to brush up on your spelling of key terms prior to doing the make up work, and maybe work on making concise answers (I find starting with a rough outline on a scratch piece of paper, or margin, helps keep things concise). Also, if you know someone in the class that got a good grade, you might ask nicely if you can look at what they wrote and compare it to what you wrote (noting differences). Or, if they don't want to share, ask if they would be willing to look at what you wrote, and provide feedback. That might give you a good basis to write something that she likes.

Side question: Does your school offer any version of the repeat and drop? At the college I attended you could (up to 3 times total) retake a class that you want a better grade in, and drop the worse of the two grades. Would it be possible for you to do this, and take the course with a different professor? While it would take longer (and possibly cost more money), it might alleviate some stress.

[Jon_Dahl]

It was difficult to determine but I counted that I have finished approximately 60 courses (at least 50) over 3½ years and this was the first time that I have failed an exam. I did study HARD for this exam.

I hope this tells you all that there is to understand the situation. And this was an intermediate course. I have done around 90% of the basic courses.

[Jon_Dahl]

Thank you again, kgato503, you're a good person. I appreciate your advice. I have to think about it for days, because that's how my brain works. I completely agree with you that we can't really talk about harassment here. You asked a bunch of good questions but in this case, they are not relevant. The teacher does not provide any teaching for this course. She only gives you books to read (which I very much read) and then there's the exam. The way I answer essay questions is that I try to tell about the broad picture, I give the definitions, I discuss the issue and give some examples. This is not what she read from my essays. She read that "lots of words, little context, this poor bastard got two terms wrong, fail".

Side question: Does your school offer any version of the repeat and drop? At the college I attended you could (up to 3 times total) retake a class that you want a better grade in, and drop the worse of the two grades. Would it be possible for you to do this, and take the course with a different professor? While it would take longer (and possibly cost more money), it might alleviate some stress.

No, she has the exclusive dominion over this course. I am sure that if I waited there might be another teacher, but I am about to graduate and get my MA.

[dehro]

I hope this tells you all that there is to understand the situation. And this was an intermediate course. I have done around 90% of the basic courses.

what it tells me is that you flunked this exam. period.
there really is no shame in it, nor does it follow that since you didn't flunk any other exam, this must be her fault.

For context, I switched high school for the last year of it. Until then my essays were rated at the top of my class, and my grades would be 9.5/10, on a 1-10 scale (where 6 is a passing grade).
Then I switched to another school. This new teacher never gave me more than a 7.5.
What changed? My previous teacher liked my writing patterns and the things I had to say, liked that I was able to write 8-12 pages of valid content in 2 hours, instead of doing the bare minimum required by the assignment. Since I had learned to write in the manner he expected me to write, he would also overlook the occasional misspelling.
This new teacher favoured a more succint manner of exposition and appreciated the ability to be more to the point than I've ever been able to be. Does that mean that the quality of my writing took a dive? no.. it was merely a matter of style and structure. And she would be completely unforgiving on any minor misspelled or wrongly placed punctuation.
Does that mean she was wrong, mean and had it in for me? no.. it does not.
Neither does your situation mean that this person is plotting against you or is doing you an undeserved bad turn.
Take responsibility for your flunking of this test and try to figure out if and how to redo it in a manner that she might be more willing to appreciate. If possible, ask her specifics on where you went wrong, but not in a confrontational manner or to debate or argue the points.. simply to learn to avoid the same mistakes once you get a do-over.
Also.. this was an intermediate course, as you say. You acing the basic courses lays a foundation for being able to take on the intermediate courses..but it in no way guarantees that you should also always succeed in the intermediate level courses which I assume to be tougher and have tougher passing requirements.

[Chen]

This is not what she read from my essays. She read that "lots of words, little context, this poor bastard got two terms wrong, fail".

When you say "got two terms wrong" do you mean spelling wise? Or do you mean in how those terms are used in the context of the course. Simply spelling I agree is likely too strict unless you misspelled them so badly there was no understanding what you were saying.

Getting terms wrong in what they mean could be justification for failure of a course if they are key points or if using that term correctly was the whole point of one of the essay questions.

[Caerulea]

And finally: Please remember your safety before posting any personal information or before giving or accepting any support. The following site provides some useful internet safety guidance for adults.

The link to the internet safety guidelines is currently broken.

[Lycunadari]

Not looking for advise, just venting–

I realised today that friends abandoning me or even turning on me was actually a recurring thing in my childhood/teen years, and is probably one of the reasons why I have such a hart time making new friends or considering people I like but am not super close with friends –*if you don't have friends, only acquaintances, getting inevitably left behind will hurt a whole lot less, right? People can't abuse your trust and forgiveness if you never let them get close enough to hurt you.
It also explains why I still consider the people I used to be close to and who never hurt me as friends, even if we only talk once in a while and aren't really close at all anymore.

[Tvtyrant]

Not looking for advise, just venting–

I realised today that friends abandoning me or even turning on me was actually a recurring thing in my childhood/teen years, and is probably one of the reasons why I have such a hart time making new friends or considering people I like but am not super close with friends –*if you don't have friends, only acquaintances, getting inevitably left behind will hurt a whole lot less, right? People can't abuse your trust and forgiveness if you never let them get close enough to hurt you.
It also explains why I still consider the people I used to be close to and who never hurt me as friends, even if we only talk once in a while and aren't really close at all anymore.

I hear you. I used to be super clingy with friends, I would go out of my way to save any friendship that felt like there was rocks and stayed in touch with high school friends across the country. Then my best friend got inti heroin while I was at college, and I tried to stay friends while watching him risk my life, beg me for money and totally become another person.

When I finally let him go my feelings about friendship had totally changed. If I don't see someone for a few weeks I generally assume that is that and move on. I haven't made a new friend in years and have steadily dropped most of my old ones. Occasionally I get messaged by someone from the past and am legit shocked.

[Cozzer]

Then my best friend got inti heroin while I was at college, and I tried to stay friends while watching him risk my life, beg me for money and totally become another person.

Woah, that sounds really horrible. It's perfectly reasonable for you to be scarred by something like that. That said, in my experience it's perfectly normal during adulthood not to hear from someone for a few weeks, or even months, depending on how busy you are and how many different social circles you move in. I think what makes a friendship is how confortable you feel and how much fun you have when you do see each other.

[Kesnit]

All names here have been changed to protect everyone involved.

Spoiler: Background

Show

My wife and I know a now-former couple, Jane and Nathan. They were together 4 years, and have a 3-year old son, “Munchkin”. (You do the math...) Both parties agree that their relationship would not have lasted as long as it did if Munchkin was not around.

The day before Munchkin was born, a friend of Nathan, Jackie, moved in with them. This was intended to be a short-term thing, but ended up becoming semi-permanent.

When we met them, they had serious housing issues, and about a year ago, we put them in contact with our landlords (a husband and wife), who had another house for rent. Jane, Nathan, Jackie, and Munchkin moved in to that house.

My wife and I have been over to their house frequently (almost every weekend) over the past year. What both noticed that Jackie is the one who mostly took care of Munchkin. She fed him, disciplined him, put him to bed, etc. Jane did some of that sometimes, but not consistently. (The analogy I made to my wife is that Jane acts more like the spoiling aunt than Mommy.) For a long while, I believed that was the deal that had been worked out – Jane and Nathan worked, and Jackie was the live-in nanny/housekeeper.

This spring, Jane told us that she and Nathan had broken up. To be honest, we weren’t surprised. They got back together not long after, but broke up for good around the end of August. There was some question who would move out, but it was eventually decided that Jane would move out and take Munchkin with her. And that is when my wife and I started learning more about what had been going on.

Spoiler: The Rest of the Story

Show

1) Jackie never agreed to be the live-in nanny. It really was supposed to be short-term, and Jackie would start working for Nathan. (He owns a business with someone else, who is not part of this drama.) However, Jackie did agree to help with Munchkin, and over time it developed into the dynamic I discussed above. After several years of this, Jackie is, understandably, fed up.

2) Jane was supposed to be paying the bills. We knew there was a short period when their power was turned off last year, but that was not long after they had moved in, and we assumed they had just not gotten caught up yet. Turns out Jane was 3 months behind on the electric as of last September (which was turned off again in October for a few weeks until Nathan could get it back on). She was paying the rent – up to 15 days late every month. (She saw nothing wrong with this.) The landlords eventually put their foot down and said they would not renew the lease if Jane’s name was on it. (Nathan has since renewed the lease with just his name.)

Spoiler: Current events

Show

So now Jane has moved out into an apartment close to where she works. Nathan comes by in the morning before Jane goes to work, picks up Munchkin, and takes Munchkin back to the house. Jackie watches Munchkin until Jane gets off work, with the understanding that if Jane does not get Munchkin before she has to go to work for Nathan, Munchkin goes to work with Jackie and Munchkin spends the night with Nathan and Jackie.

Jane has been posting on FB about the events she and Munchkin have been going to. This in and of itself is not an issue – the kid needs some fun and the events are not all that expensive. But there is some cost (admission and gas) involved, and Jane has a history of running out of money and therefore not paying bills. Having the power or water turned off temporarily is a pain, but can be worked around. However, the apartment complex is not going to be as forgiving about late rent as our landlords were.

Jane is also continuing to act like spoiling aunt and not Mommy. Munchkin has no set schedule for his day, other than when Nathan and Jane trade him off. We found out yesterday that Munchkin will start preschool December 12, which will give some structure (and Jackie a break), but he still has no set evening routine or bedtime.

I’m afraid the apartment complex will start eviction proceedings within a few months because Jane hasn’t paid the rent on time. I’m afraid Jane is going to get frustrated with Munchkin (because he is a typical 3-year old, but she’s never had to deal with it) and get physical with him. Or she will get so fed up that she’ll turn Munchkin over to Nathan and move back with her family (several hours away).

I know people are going to say I may be worrying about nothing – that these things may not happen. While that is true, I think they are more likely than not, given Jane’s previous track record. I feel bad because I feel like we’re “deserting” Jane. My wife and I can see the train wreck coming, but don’t feel like there is anything we can do to stop it. My wife keeps reminding me (and herself) “not my circus, not my monkeys,” which is true. But at the same time, if you saw someone drowning, wouldn’t you throw a life preserver?

Any advice?

[ve4grm]

All names here have been changed to protect everyone involved.

Spoiler: Background

Show

My wife and I know a now-former couple, Jane and Nathan. They were together 4 years, and have a 3-year old son, “Munchkin”. (You do the math...) Both parties agree that their relationship would not have lasted as long as it did if Munchkin was not around.

The day before Munchkin was born, a friend of Nathan, Jackie, moved in with them. This was intended to be a short-term thing, but ended up becoming semi-permanent.

When we met them, they had serious housing issues, and about a year ago, we put them in contact with our landlords (a husband and wife), who had another house for rent. Jane, Nathan, Jackie, and Munchkin moved in to that house.

My wife and I have been over to their house frequently (almost every weekend) over the past year. What both noticed that Jackie is the one who mostly took care of Munchkin. She fed him, disciplined him, put him to bed, etc. Jane did some of that sometimes, but not consistently. (The analogy I made to my wife is that Jane acts more like the spoiling aunt than Mommy.) For a long while, I believed that was the deal that had been worked out – Jane and Nathan worked, and Jackie was the live-in nanny/housekeeper.

This spring, Jane told us that she and Nathan had broken up. To be honest, we weren’t surprised. They got back together not long after, but broke up for good around the end of August. There was some question who would move out, but it was eventually decided that Jane would move out and take Munchkin with her. And that is when my wife and I started learning more about what had been going on.

Spoiler: The Rest of the Story

Show

1) Jackie never agreed to be the live-in nanny. It really was supposed to be short-term, and Jackie would start working for Nathan. (He owns a business with someone else, who is not part of this drama.) However, Jackie did agree to help with Munchkin, and over time it developed into the dynamic I discussed above. After several years of this, Jackie is, understandably, fed up.

2) Jane was supposed to be paying the bills. We knew there was a short period when their power was turned off last year, but that was not long after they had moved in, and we assumed they had just not gotten caught up yet. Turns out Jane was 3 months behind on the electric as of last September (which was turned off again in October for a few weeks until Nathan could get it back on). She was paying the rent – up to 15 days late every month. (She saw nothing wrong with this.) The landlords eventually put their foot down and said they would not renew the lease if Jane’s name was on it. (Nathan has since renewed the lease with just his name.)

Spoiler: Current events

Show

So now Jane has moved out into an apartment close to where she works. Nathan comes by in the morning before Jane goes to work, picks up Munchkin, and takes Munchkin back to the house. Jackie watches Munchkin until Jane gets off work, with the understanding that if Jane does not get Munchkin before she has to go to work for Nathan, Munchkin goes to work with Jackie and Munchkin spends the night with Nathan and Jackie.

Jane has been posting on FB about the events she and Munchkin have been going to. This in and of itself is not an issue – the kid needs some fun and the events are not all that expensive. But there is some cost (admission and gas) involved, and Jane has a history of running out of money and therefore not paying bills. Having the power or water turned off temporarily is a pain, but can be worked around. However, the apartment complex is not going to be as forgiving about late rent as our landlords were.

Jane is also continuing to act like spoiling aunt and not Mommy. Munchkin has no set schedule for his day, other than when Nathan and Jane trade him off. We found out yesterday that Munchkin will start preschool December 12, which will give some structure (and Jackie a break), but he still has no set evening routine or bedtime.

I’m afraid the apartment complex will start eviction proceedings within a few months because Jane hasn’t paid the rent on time. I’m afraid Jane is going to get frustrated with Munchkin (because he is a typical 3-year old, but she’s never had to deal with it) and get physical with him. Or she will get so fed up that she’ll turn Munchkin over to Nathan and move back with her family (several hours away).

I know people are going to say I may be worrying about nothing – that these things may not happen. While that is true, I think they are more likely than not, given Jane’s previous track record. I feel bad because I feel like we’re “deserting” Jane. My wife and I can see the train wreck coming, but don’t feel like there is anything we can do to stop it. My wife keeps reminding me (and herself) “not my circus, not my monkeys,” which is true. But at the same time, if you saw someone drowning, wouldn’t you throw a life preserver?

Any advice?

Hi again!

Unfortunately, I (mostly) agree with your wife. Right now, your responsibility is to let them play out their lives. Yeah, it feels like you aren't helping, but you can't help someone unless they want it, and it doesn't look like they're looking for help right now.

What you can do:
- Check in on Jane and Munchkin occasionally, ask how they're doing. If she says they're good, then trust her.
- If you see something that should concern Nathan (something concerning Munchkin, especially) and he isn't aware of it, then let him know. But then let him deal with it.
- If you see signs of abuse, and report it to Nathan, and he doesn't deal with it, then consider further steps to protect the child. But tell Nathan what you're considering, and ask him to step in before you take any drastic steps like calling child services. These should be Nathan's steps to take, if possible.

Focus on the big things, too. Watch that they're paying rent on time (and let Nathan know if you see Jane not doing so), and for signs of abuse of course, but don't concern yourself with bedtime schedules. Yes, proper schedules can benefit a child, but not every family works the same, so it's not for you to judge unless you see Munchkin being harmed.

I understand the feeling that you should be doing more. But right now, you just need to be paying attention.

[Cozzer]

if you saw someone drowning, wouldn’t you throw a life preserver?

Point is, "someone drowning" is a one-time situation. A better question would be, if you saw someone jumping into the water whenever they feel like it, would you spend the rest of your life watching for them and throwing them a life preserver each and every time they throw themselves into the water? Because that's the kind of situation your friends are in.

It really, really sucks that there's an innocent kid involved, but it's still not a mess you can solve. I still swear by the "don't help someone more than they're willing to help themselves" motto.

[Honest Tiefling]

1) If you think a child is in danger (or potentially so) I'd heavily consider calling the authorities and then washing your hands of it. You're just causing yourself undue stress without being able to help.

2) Ask Nathan what HE wants. As a seemingly responsible parent, you should probably see if he needs help and what he wishes to be done in the situation.

3) Related to 2, consider asking Nathan if he's building a case for full custody. I know that Jane is your friend, but there is a child involved.

[Tvtyrant]

Woah, that sounds really horrible. It's perfectly reasonable for you to be scarred by something like that. That said, in my experience it's perfectly normal during adulthood not to hear from someone for a few weeks, or even months, depending on how busy you are and how many different social circles you move in. I think what makes a friendship is how confortable you feel and how much fun you have when you do see each other.

That is a very fair way of looking at it. I'm one of those regular schedule people, I tend to have the same time and day set aside for someone every week to hike or hang out, and if we can't make it regular they tend to get swallowed by other time commitments.

I went to a friends wedding this summer and realized I had not seen them in eight years, had never met their fiance, and had only a basic idea of what they were doing. I probably wouldn't have thought to invite them to my wedding at all :/

[dehro]

Any advice?

Stay out of it.
If you feel you can't, talk to Nathan and Jackie (are they a couple now, the dynamics you describe seem to suggest the might be more going on than you know, on that front).
See how they think things are going with respect to Jane and her managing of munchkin. If you are certain that Nathan is not fully appraised of a potential danger to his child, but you really have to be sure, then inform him of whatever it is that's going on.
As for the events and the bills related to his child... I would assume Nathan helps paying for them to some degree, so maybe Jane is not in as bad a place as you think she is.
On what do you base the notion she's about to be evicted? Is there talk of late rent again or is it just your feeling about her patterns of behaviour?
Do not involve child services unless you feel the child really is in danger, because there's no way to tell if Nathan, who seems the most stable of the two parents, would be deemed fit to take care of his child, on account of being full time busy and in an unclear familial situation with another woman... Nothing bad per sé, but a nasty lawyer could try to build a case against him and the net result would be a child thrown in the system.
How about grandparents on either side? Do you know them at all?

All of the above is only for should you feel the really is enough of a danger to munchkin that you have to involve yourself... Which I, again, strongly advise against.
Ultimately, consider this: if the child is not neglected, underfed or harmed directly, they're doing well enough. There are 3 people who, to varying degrees, concern themselves with munchkin. Odds are at least one of them is capable, has the child's best interest at heart and knows the situation better than you possibly can.
Unless things really aren't savoury, you really shouldn't be overly concerned. Not every parenting style is optional, but neither are they all the same and there's no reason to believe the child won't do just fine, unless there's more to it you're not telling.

[Chen]

1) If you think a child is in danger (or potentially so) I'd heavily consider calling the authorities and then washing your hands of it. You're just causing yourself undue stress without being able to help.

You really should have some solid evidence before you go to the authorities. Calling CPS on someone is a HUGE deal. Children not being fed, physically abused or other severe neglect warrant this. Not vague feelings or rearing a child in a way you dont like (i.e., the lack of set routines).

[Florian]

Any advice?

Stay well clear.

The child has two parents and Nathan is up in the chain of responsibility should Jane fail. You and Jackie are outsiders that should not infringe on the parents rights and duties (Exception: Nathan is not the registered or recognized father, therefore is without legal rights or duties in regards to the child).

Only thing you can and should do, is invite the three over to your place, order some pizza and wine, explain to them how you, as an outsider, see the whole thing and afterwards, send them off to figure it out themselves. If they can´t, well, then next steps could be in order.

[Kesnit]

If you feel you can't, talk to Nathan and Jackie (are they a couple now, the dynamics you describe seem to suggest the might be more going on than you know, on that front).

No, they are not. They have been friends for a long time, but Jackie is ace, so I know there is nothing going on between them.

See how they think things are going with respect to Jane and her managing of munchkin.

Jane just moved out at the beginning of November, so there hasn't been a lot of time to test the situation. My wife had a long talk with Jackie a few days ago and I've talked to Nathan some. Both are still a little too angry (esp Jackie) to be able to step back. Nathan has said that he will be there to catch Munchkin when (his word, not mine) Jane falls.

If you are certain that Nathan is not fully appraised of a potential danger to his child, but you really have to be sure, then inform him of whatever it is that's going on.

No one is really sure what is going to happen.

As for the events and the bills related to his child... I would assume Nathan helps paying for them to some degree, so maybe Jane is not in as bad a place as you think she is.

She is. She makes more than Nathan (because his business has cycles, and is going through an expansion at the moment), which is why she was supposed to be paying the bills. He's also now responsible for all the bills at the house where he and Jackie are living.

Again, he will keep anything from happening to his son, but does not want to bail Jane out.

On what do you base the notion she's about to be evicted? Is there talk of late rent again or is it just your feeling about her patterns of behaviour?

She isn't about to be evicted. Her November rent was paid when she moved in, and I assume she'll keep up on everything for a few months. But as time goes on, based on what she has done before, she'll start letting things slip and bills will fall behind. We know she was habitually paying the rent late (our landlord confirmed that). I don't know anything about this specific apartment complex, but I've lived in apartments most of my adult life. I can't imagine any complex letting a person get away with paying late for long. One late may be forgiven, but if she does it twice, she'll be out.

Do not involve child services unless you feel the child really is in danger,

None of us are considering calling CPS at this time. Jane has a temper, and we all know it. We also know that for the first time, she is solely responsible for Munchkin. However, that does not mean that she will be violent with Munchkin. It is not impossible, but at this time, there's no signs that she will be.

Jackie and Nathan see Munchkin every weekday, so if something did happen, they would see it.

How about grandparents on either side? Do you know them at all?

I've not met any of them. I know Jane's father (who lives closer than the others, about 4 hours away) has terminal cancer. Jane's mom is 5 hours away. I have no idea where Nathan's parents live, though I know he is close to them. (He talks about them regularly and I've seen pictures.)

However, that is another issue that everyone would want to avoid. We live in the Southern US. Nathan is clearly mixed-race. Jane is white, and unless someone saw Nathan, anyone would assume Munchkin is as well. Nathan's mother is medium-toned African-American.

You really should have some solid evidence before you go to the authorities. Calling CPS on someone is a HUGE deal. Children not being fed, physically abused or other severe neglect warrant this. Not vague feelings or rearing a child in a way you dont like (i.e., the lack of set routines).

It isn't the lack of routines, and again, no one is considering calling CPS at this time. Hopefully, no one will ever have to.

[Honest Tiefling]

Calling CPS is an overreaction that I apologize for. I'm sorry to have mentioned it, I thought have thought things through better.

However, I do think that the Facebook posts are going to be brought up later. She looks like she's trying to establish a case for custody in proving that she's active with the child. That could screw Nathan over later.

As for Jackie, I feel like it wasn't an affair. If there was, I feel like Jane would have been more possessive about Munchkin when Jackie started to act like a mother figure. Or she's just really freaking lazy.

[ve4grm]

Nathan has said that he will be there to catch Munchkin when (his word, not mine) Jane falls.

...

Again, he will keep anything from happening to his son, but does not want to bail Jane out.

Then there's your answer. Someone is watching, and looking out for Munchkin. And Jane's a big girl, who doesn't currently want your help.

All you need to do is let them live their lives. And if Jane falls, and needs a bailout, you'll need to decide how much help you're willing to give. But that's not a concern right now.

Everything else, well, it's like your wife said. Not your circus, not your monkeys.

[druid91]

So, it's the time of year with sales and such again and I find myself, once again wondering if it's an issue that I really hate spending money.

Even when I've saved money FOR something, it's usually only easy when I'm pushed into a scenario where I've got no other choice. (Food, Car Insurance, Rent, things like that.) If it's anything even remotely 'personal' I'll sit there and try to convince myself to push on through and deal with what I've got. Up to and including trying to make use of a computer that I've basically got to hotwire now, because the corner is so mangled that I have to move the circuitry around with my fingers to get the power button to work.

Most of the time I tend to put this down to just being 'sensible' but every once in a while, I wonder. Because it isn't really a thought out 'I don't need this' so much as it's a strong, instinctive, aversion to purchasing things that go beyond the $20-50 pricerange, even when I know it's needed or I would be saving money in the longer run.

[Tvtyrant]

So, it's the time of year with sales and such again and I find myself, once again wondering if it's an issue that I really hate spending money.

Even when I've saved money FOR something, it's usually only easy when I'm pushed into a scenario where I've got no other choice. (Food, Car Insurance, Rent, things like that.) If it's anything even remotely 'personal' I'll sit there and try to convince myself to push on through and deal with what I've got. Up to and including trying to make use of a computer that I've basically got to hotwire now, because the corner is so mangled that I have to move the circuitry around with my fingers to get the power button to work.

Most of the time I tend to put this down to just being 'sensible' but every once in a while, I wonder. Because it isn't really a thought out 'I don't need this' so much as it's a strong, instinctive, aversion to purchasing things that go beyond the $20-50 pricerange, even when I know it's needed or I would be saving money in the longer run.

That sounds rough. I know I have always been uncomfortable spending money because my parents live paycheck to paycheck. I am more comfortable buying bonds then buying games.