OOTS #1088 - The Discussion Thread

[Braininthejar2]

The gate leads to the temple of Thor, not any fortress. Firmament itself is just a town.

Firmament is inside the mountain and not accessible from the surface. This door is the temple exit for priests to observe the sky - and the only direct entrance from the surface, which is why it's a strongly fortified point. All the less reason for a banquet hall on the outside of the door.

[johnbragg]

Why would he not have it maxxed? He's a very devoted Cleric who takes his church's teachings and myths very seriously.

Somewhere in the first book, he doesn't catch on that Hilyga is a cleric of Loki when she Turns a Fire creature. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html

Why do I have the naggin feeling that with a few more ranks in Knowledge: REligion I'd be a lot more worried about all this.

He was mid-levels then, so it's possible that he just blew the roll. I had remembered it as him not having maxxed out Knowledge: Religion, much like Belkar neglecting to take any ranks in Survival so that he could actually track things.

[Rogan]

Firmament is inside the mountain and not accessible from the surface. This door is the temple exit for priests to observe the sky - and the only direct entrance from the surface, which is why it's a strongly fortified point. All the less reason for a banquet hall on the outside of the door.

As far as I know, it is not the door to/from the surface. There is such a door and you can open it with a runestone, but this door is more likely to be somewhere in the mountain.

EDIT:
Oh, and I think it's unlikely Firmament is not accessible from the surface. They need to leave the mountain from time to time, fighting trees, trading with large folk and so on.
And I doubt the clerics would like everybody who wishes to acess the surface to move through the tempel first.
If you have a source saying otherwise, let me know

[FallenFallcrest]

OOTS? I think the title is supposed to be OOTLORTVNRD. It is what Durkon and Maurice named the team, after all.

[Jasdoif]

I forget which spellcasting class had the hardest time, mechanically, getting epic spells online, but it was almost certainly either clerics or sorcerers.

Bards. You have to take Improved Spell Capacity three times, Heighten Spell, and convince the DM that being able to heighten a spell to 9th level with the 9th-level slot means you meet the "can cast 9th-level arcane spells" requirement for the Epic Spellcasting feat.

[White Magic]

Thanks for the well-liked installment. Betcha some of the dwarves Durkon named will show up again.

Love the view of Durkon's family. A lot of really interesting people and it fleshes out Durkon to be something more than a grumpy healbot, a "support beam", in the HPOH's words.

Durkon is playing the same game he did with Miko back in Azure City -- while he will not lie he is a master of telling less than the full truth. In a way, his lawful upbringing is good practice for him. He can't lie to the vampire, but that's okay because he hasn't been able to lie his whole life. He's a master at misleading through omitted information, I think.

[Hiro Quester]

Bards. You have to take Improved Spell Capacity three times, Heighten Spell, and convince the DM that being able to heighten a spell to 9th level with the 9th-level slot means you meet the "can cast 9th-level arcane spells" requirement for the Epic Spellcasting feat.

Not if you go the Sublime Chord route.

And there is a rule in ELH (p. 72) that non-wizards can use their casting stat (WIS or CHA) for spellcraft checks related to epic spellcasting. So the stat by itself isn't the hugest impediment.

[danielxcutter]

Thor's beard, I didn't know Durkon could snark!

Seriously though, has he before the whole Durkula thing?

[Keltest]

Thor's beard, I didn't know Durkon could snark!

Seriously though, has he before the whole Durkula thing?

he certainly seemed sharp with Belkar after the tree thing in the desert.

[Jasdoif]

And there is a rule in ELH (p. 72) that non-wizards can use their casting stat (WIS or CHA) for spellcraft checks related to epic spellcasting.

If your DM is using that particular variant rule, sure.

[Ruck]

Why would he not have it maxxed? He's a very devoted Cleric who takes his church's teachings and myths very seriously.

Somewhere in the first book, he doesn't catch on that Hilyga is a cleric of Loki when she Turns a Fire creature. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html

He was mid-levels then, so it's possible that he just blew the roll. I had remembered it as him not having maxxed out Knowledge: Religion, much like Belkar neglecting to take any ranks in Survival so that he could actually track things.

In this very book, he didn't remember the Domain Agreement.

[Chei]

Bards. You have to take Improved Spell Capacity three times, Heighten Spell, and convince the DM that being able to heighten a spell to 9th level with the 9th-level slot means you meet the "can cast 9th-level arcane spells" requirement for the Epic Spellcasting feat.

Getting to around level 30 is certainly going the distance.

[Ruck]

Clearly Haley is the Gangster of Love.

The entire OotS is revealed as the Steve Miller band brought into a D&D world, which may in fact mean the Monster in the Darkness is actually the beast from Hotel California. Belkar stabbed it with his steely knives but couldn't scratch it ...

I dunno, my theory is that the MITD is Chaotic Neutral, and that entire song is pure evil.

[GloatingSwine]

He's stressing how he's not able to show false memories. But he can show misleading ones (e.g. where he knows that things have changed since the memory happened).

Or ones where he conceals a better option for the vampire by showing a weaker one that looks appealing instead.

[liooil2000]

Or maybe Durkon is trying to weaken Greg by constantly exposing it to the most positive memories he can, annoying it until it makes a mistake or something, since it is a negative energy spirit?

[Chei]

Or maybe Durkon is trying to weaken Greg by constantly exposing it to the most positive memories he can, annoying it until it makes a mistake or something, since it is a negative energy spirit?

Unfortunately, it seems like the positivity itself doesn't affect the vampire. However, the vampire learns less from positive memories, it seems, because he doesn't understand positive relationships very well. Durkon learned much earlier in the book that the vampire is not guaranteed to learn what Durkon himself learned from his own memories. He's been slowly using that to his advantage.

[Keltest]

Or maybe Durkon is trying to weaken Greg by constantly exposing it to the most positive memories he can, annoying it until it makes a mistake or something, since it is a negative energy spirit?

"Let us taunt it! It shall become so cross, that it shall make a mistake!"

[IntelectPaladin]

"Look-out-roy-tha-vampire's-na-really-durkon"
Alright, burlew. This strip was priceless.
Just priceless.
That isn't to say it has no value. I'm saying that it
Thank you for reading this, and I hope you have a nice day!

[AuthorGirl]

So, Durkon plainly has some control over which thoughts are revealed to his unwelcome guest, because there have been some manipulations. That implies something's going on with the volunteered information (as it can't be false, apparently). I'm excited to see what!

[Unoriginal]

In this very book, he didn't remember the Domain Agreement.

To be fair, he might have remembered it if he wasn't grasping at straw to find a way to stop the vampire due to frustration and fear for his friends, along with him having faith that Thor could help him.

Having a dark spirit parasyting his mind might also not have helped, too. But the memory of said agreement showed up when asked for.

[Czhorat]

"Let us taunt it! It shall become so cross, that it shall make a mistake!"

Like what?

[8BitNinja]

We found out how big Durkon's family is.

Thank you for answering my question Mr. Burlew!

[TheBeggarDwarf]

Is anyone else getting the feeling that they almost know what Durkon's going for, but then the idea reverts to mist-form and slinks off to the sarcophagus?

Has the comic explicitly stated that Darkon is CE (I seem to remember that being the default alignment for a vampire)? Or Hel, for that matter, though I would guess she's NE? I wonder if that might be part of the issues the vampire spirit is having. The experiences that make a LG person aren't going to make a CE as well. Darkon can't learn Durkon's lessons, and the main one he seems to misunderstand are the ones associated with family. Or I'm just rambling and sleep-deprived.

Side-note: I have no idea whether or not Mr. Burlew had it in his mind or not when he was writing, but the way he handles the relationship between the mortal host and the vampire goes a long way towards explaining why Dracula made so many mistakes in his own family history.

[Alcore]

Pretty sure the undead can't get drunk.

With enough motivation i can see one try

[goto124]

Some people call Roy the space cowboy...

Or a Shadow cowboy

[Elenna]

I like Durkon explaining in great and sarcastic detail that he can't give false memories, thereby annoying Greg and making him feel foolish, meaning Greg is less likely to pursue the point. All the while, Durkon very carefully avoids actually saying "No, this isn't a trick".

[Basement Cat]

In panel 12 Durkon looks less irritated and more concerned that Greg is seeing through him. I agree with others that Durkon is learning how to mislead Greg by calling up specific memories that are "just enough" to satisfy Greg's inquiries while leaving out key points. It looks like he's succeeding.

Gloves is demonstrating a surprising lack of Master worship. I'm hoping she somehow breaks from the team and screws things up by trying to do something her own way.

[woweedd]

Is anyone else getting the feeling that they almost know what Durkon's going for, but then the idea reverts to mist-form and slinks off to the sarcophagus?

Has the comic explicitly stated that Darkon is CE (I seem to remember that being the default alignment for a vampire)? Or Hel, for that matter, though I would guess she's NE? I wonder if that might be part of the issues the vampire spirit is having. The experiences that make a LG person aren't going to make a CE as well. Darkon can't learn Durkon's lessons, and the main one he seems to misunderstand are the ones associated with family. Or I'm just rambling and sleep-deprived.

Side-note: I have no idea whether or not Mr. Burlew had it in his mind or not when he was writing, but the way he handles the relationship between the mortal host and the vampire goes a long way towards explaining why Dracula made so many mistakes in his own family history.

Vampires, being made of negative energy, are always Evil, but the SRD doesn't specify whether they keep the victim's ethical alignment. The Alignment section of their description says "Always Evil (Any.)" but, on the other hand, their intro says "A vampire uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here." So..It's not really clear i'd personally go with yes, but i'm not sure.

[TheBeggarDwarf]

Vampires, being made of negative energy, are alway Evil, but the SRD doesn't specify whether they keep the victim's ethical alignment. The Alignment section of their description says "Always Evil (Any.) but, on the other hand, their intro says "A vampire uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here." So..It's not really clear i'd personally go with yes, but i'm not sure.

Thanks. It's been a while since I played with 3.5 vampires, so I was a little hazy and my books are still boxed up.

[SaintRidley]

Like what?

Like become a cross, which is not something a vampire wants to do.