Stellaris II: I, For One, Welcome Our New Robot Fungus Hivemind Overlords

[Olinser]

It is most definitely a bug.

Spoiler: Behold

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Another bug. Same general idea:


Please notice that those are neighboring systems of the same empire. The original was even more moronic: All I did was click repair. The ship pathed from where it was, to the furthest system in my empire, in a giant loop, then back the way it came, and to my home system to repair.

Trailing, along the way, a long string of reinforcement ships.

Unless you actually intend to be insulting, please refrain from that.

Again, that's not a bug, that's an inhibitor.

Presumably there is an enemy world in the system with a hyperspace inhibitor and you haven't captured it. See the magnet and how you don't have total control of the system (noted by the 4 spikes on the symbol as you can see in the 2 systems to the south, which do NOT appear on the system you are in).

Worlds can have hyperspace inhibitors just like stations and you have to take both before you can exit on a different path.

[GloatingSwine]

Worlds can have hyperspace inhibitors just like stations and you have to take both before you can exit on a different path.

Technically you don't need to take the planet, you can just sit and bomb it until you've ruined all the Strongholds/Fortresses on it, they are what has the FTL inhibitor.

Also when you're at war you should be occupying all the systems not just the ones with planets in. Take your claims, above all else. Also whilst you're occupying a system in war you get the resources from it not its owner.

[Driderman]

So I finally managed to evolve into perfect, immortal machines. Of course, that leaves me with a very large population of obsolete Synthetics that are nowhere near as awesome as my own race. Guess I'll kick them out and hope they cause some havoc in their new homes

[Madcrafter]

Speaking of repair pathing, I've found that all my fleets prefer one particular spaceport for upgrading, to the point where even if they are sat on a perfectly capable station, they'll still fly of to the other one. It's an unremarkable station way out on the edge of the empire, and though it has a gateway so it isn't too bad travel time-wise, they'll do it even if the spaceport's queue is full of shipbuilding and have to wait as a result. Any reason that may be occurring?

[BannedInSchool]

Speaking of repair pathing, I've found that all my fleets prefer one particular spaceport for upgrading, to the point where even if they are sat on a perfectly capable station, they'll still fly of to the other one. It's an unremarkable station way out on the edge of the empire, and though it has a gateway so it isn't too bad travel time-wise, they'll do it even if the spaceport's queue is full of shipbuilding and have to wait as a result. Any reason that may be occurring?

I believe upgrading fleets go to their home port. They'll also retreat to it, so update your home port when you're at war so you don't get annoying trips.

[Olinser]

Technically you don't need to take the planet, you can just sit and bomb it until you've ruined all the Strongholds/Fortresses on it, they are what has the FTL inhibitor.

Also when you're at war you should be occupying all the systems not just the ones with planets in. Take your claims, above all else. Also whilst you're occupying a system in war you get the resources from it not its owner.

Mistype I actually meant to put 'take out' the inhibitors, but yes bombing the buildings is viable - although if somebody has a Shield Generator it will take a very long time to get them down.

[Madcrafter]

I believe upgrading fleets go to their home port. They'll also retreat to it, so update your home port when you're at war so you don't get annoying trips.

It's not that, since they all have different home ports that aren't that one. The only thing I can think that's special about that spaceport is that it's the only (surviving) one I've captured from another empire, but I don't see why that would change anything.

[Olinser]

Speaking of repair pathing, I've found that all my fleets prefer one particular spaceport for upgrading, to the point where even if they are sat on a perfectly capable station, they'll still fly of to the other one. It's an unremarkable station way out on the edge of the empire, and though it has a gateway so it isn't too bad travel time-wise, they'll do it even if the spaceport's queue is full of shipbuilding and have to wait as a result. Any reason that may be occurring?

Do you have a Titan in the fleet? I believe only shipyards that have Titan assembly stations can actually upgrade Titans, so that's a possibility.

And as has been mentioned, setting stations as a home station will make them prefer that one above all else - you may have accidentally done it and not realized it.

[Kaptin Keen]

Again, that's not a bug, that's an inhibitor.

Presumably there is an enemy world in the system with a hyperspace inhibitor and you haven't captured it. See the magnet and how you don't have total control of the system (noted by the 4 spikes on the symbol as you can see in the 2 systems to the south, which do NOT appear on the system you are in).

Worlds can have hyperspace inhibitors just like stations and you have to take both before you can exit on a different path.

Ok - there is NOTHING in that system. It's a pathing error. It does it all ... the time. Inside my own empire too - my first example, with the fleet heading for repairs? Entirely inside MY borders.

Still an inhibitor, you think????

On a side note, my allies fleet is in the system I cannot go to. Do you want another screenshot? There are two mining stations, and nothing else.

[Olinser]

Ok - there is NOTHING in that system. It's a pathing error. It does it all ... the time. Inside my own empire too - my first example, with the fleet heading for repairs? Entirely inside MY borders.

Still an inhibitor, you think????

On a side note, my allies fleet is in the system I cannot go to. Do you want another screenshot? There are two mining stations, and nothing else.

I want you to stop whining about bugs and spend a little time looking to actually figure out what is causing the pathing so you can actually understand it instead of crying ITS A BUG. There are any number of inputs and reasons that would cause the path shown in the screenshot. It's not a bug, it hasn't been reported by anybody else and its nowhere on the dev team's radar to 'fix'. All paths, even if they appear to be odd at first glance, always make sense when you understand what they are pathing around and what sequence of orders were given.

Your comment about the ally fleet leads me to believe you don't really understand how inhibitors work. The ally fleet in the neighboring system is irrelevant, if it followed a path from the other side they can only leave the same way. That path is EXACTLY what you would expect with an active inhibitor still in the system. You can leave by the same entrance, none other, until you have taken/destroyed all active inhibitors in the system. So you can't take either the southern or the northern path. And yes, that means ally fleets that came from a different entrance can only leave through that different entrance. Beyond that if you had orders qued up to attack the station and then go to the other system, it would have set that path and retained that path even after you took out the inhibitors.

[Madcrafter]

Do you have a Titan in the fleet? I believe only shipyards that have Titan assembly stations can actually upgrade Titans, so that's a possibility.

And as has been mentioned, setting stations as a home station will make them prefer that one above all else - you may have accidentally done it and not realized it.

I'll have to check next time I boot it up and see what a Titan fleet does, would be good to know anyways.

[Kaptin Keen]

I want you to stop whining about bugs and spend a little time looking to actually figure out what is causing the pathing so you can actually understand it instead of crying ITS A BUG. There are any number of inputs and reasons that would cause the path shown in the screenshot. It's not a bug, it hasn't been reported by anybody else and its nowhere on the dev team's radar to 'fix'. All paths, even if they appear to be odd at first glance, always make sense when you understand what they are pathing around and what sequence of orders were given.

Your comment about the ally fleet leads me to believe you don't really understand how inhibitors work. The ally fleet in the neighboring system is irrelevant, if it followed a path from the other side they can only leave the same way. That path is EXACTLY what you would expect with an active inhibitor still in the system. You can leave by the same entrance, none other, until you have taken/destroyed all active inhibitors in the system. So you can't take either the southern or the northern path. And yes, that means ally fleets that came from a different entrance can only leave through that different entrance. Beyond that if you had orders qued up to attack the station and then go to the other system, it would have set that path and retained that path even after you took out the inhibitors.

So you really insist on considering me an idiot because I've seen something you haven't. Well thanks for that, friend. The bug may be local, there's no reason to think it affects every installation of the game globally - it's very much possible it's an artifact of my ancient computer. It still is, without any shadow of doubt - a bug. There is no inhibitor in the system. There is quite literally nothing except two mining stations, and an ally fleet.

But since you insist on giving no consideration to anything I tell you, I consider this conversation to be over. Thanks a bundle, and have a wonderful day =)

[Olinser]

So you really insist on considering me an idiot because I've seen something you haven't. Well thanks for that, friend. The bug may be local, there's no reason to think it affects every installation of the game globally - it's very much possible it's an artifact of my ancient computer. It still is, without any shadow of doubt - a bug. There is no inhibitor in the system. There is quite literally nothing except two mining stations, and an ally fleet.

But since you insist on giving no consideration to anything I tell you, I consider this conversation to be over. Thanks a bundle, and have a wonderful day =)

For the last time - there is no bug. You provided a screenshot that conclusively demonstrated you DO NOT have full control of the system in question - as I already pointed out. The path your ships have taken is 100% consistent with not having secured all inhibitors in the system. When you have full control of a system the 4 pips appear around it, AS YOU CAN SEE in the screenshot provided, with the 2 systems to the south owned by what is presumably your ally. Rather than attempt to learn you act like a petulant child and declare the conversation 'over', so you can go back to whining about nonexistent bugs rather than learn the game mechanics. Enjoy the 'bug' forever.

In fact, here's another screenshot since you don't seem to be comprehending what is going on.

Spoiler

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Now lets do yours:

Spoiler

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See how you DON'T HAVE CONTROL of the system?

[Kaptin Keen]

For the last time - there is no bug. You provided a screenshot that conclusively demonstrated you DO NOT have full control of the system in question - as I already pointed out. The path your ships have taken is 100% consistent with not having secured all inhibitors in the system. When you have full control of a system the 4 pips appear around it, AS YOU CAN SEE in the screenshot provided, with the 2 systems to the south owned by what is presumably your ally. Rather than attempt to learn you act like a petulant child and declare the conversation 'over', so you can go back to whining about nonexistent bugs rather than learn the game mechanics. Enjoy the 'bug' forever.

In fact, here's another screenshot since you don't seem to be comprehending what is going on.

Spoiler

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Now lets do yours:

Spoiler

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See how you DON'T HAVE CONTROL of the system?

Conversation over. Thought I mentioned that.

[GloatingSwine]

So you really insist on considering me an idiot because I've seen something you haven't.

No, you've failed to see something everyone else has seen. You've failed to see that you're in a system with an active FTL inhibitor, which means your ships are only allowed to leave the system by the hyperlane they entered it through.

[Caelestion]

Conversation over. Thought I mentioned that.

It takes two to have a conversation. Stop trying to have the last word and it won't be a conversation for much longer.

[Silverraptor]

I'm going to throw my 2 cents into here because tempers are flaring. I'm currently working as software testing for Boeing, and they are having me test many different features of a program and write up bugs all the time. The one thing that they trained me to do is there is always a disconnect between the tester and the developer in what is happening. The developer can't see what's happening on my screen when I discover the bug, so I have to be very specific in what occurred and where I discovered the bug (We have to give the browser we were in, the Operating system we were using, the environment of the software, the version of the software, and even the build date of the software as it changes about every 2 weeks). In fact, it's greatly encouraged to keep trying to recreate the bug so I for sure know 100% how to cause the bug so the developer can follow the same steps and see for himself what is causing it (There is nothing more annoying then an inconsistent bug where following the same steps randomly will produce the bug and not produce the bug!) The one thing they really drilled during my training to be a tester is everyone can only see what you send them and the information you tell them, so when writing it up as a bug, you got to tell them everything.

What I mean is, based on the information you sent in, with the screenshot and the description, we see that the pathing that has your fleet going the roundabout way shows your fleet is starting from a system that you don't have complete control and there is an FTL inhibitor in that system, as you can see the little magnet symbol appearing right underneath one of your ship icons over the system. Now, we don't know what path your fleet took to get in there. If it entered in from one of the top systems and it's taking that route out, that's not suppose to happen. But if it did come in that way, then it seems to be occurring as designed. If you really want to tackle the problem and see how this bug is behaving and what is triggering it, we need to know every bit of information. What were you doing before the bug (Movement, Clicks, Intentions)? What were you doing when you discovered the bug (Movement, Clicks, Intentions)? What were you doing in trying to discover a work-around for the bug (Movement, Clicks, Intentions)? We need complete information, as if we are there in the room with you to see this all playing out. If there is any information gap, then we have to speculate and fill in the holes with our own logic, which could be contrary to what actions you actually did and how you responded.

So if you want to explore this bug more and try to find a cause to send in for Paradox for fixing we (well, I know I am) more then willing to help you, but we need your help on this as well. If you could, provide updated screenshots on what's occurring and a very detailed description on what you did that caused the bug. In this case there is only such a thing as too little information, so everything about the situation you send in would be very beneficial for us helping you.

Also, I know tempers have risen as well, but if we can all discuss this calmly. There is already a disconnect from each other with distance and like I said earlier, incomplete information has had most of us fill in the information gaps with assumed (but not necessarily true) knowledge. And when you give us the information, we'll likely give you instructions on different things to do. When we do that, and you are still having the bug, we need to know what exactly occured that made our idea not work so we can rethink and try something else. If it's not a bug, we'll solve it. If it is a bug, we'll document it so well that we'll do Paradox's work for them (minus the bug fixing.)

[Kaptin Keen]

I don't control the planet. I hadn't seen that.

While that explains much, it just means that something else is wrong. Cause I ordered the attack, and watched the pods drop - then I built more ships. I had not noticed that my troops are still in orbit, and the attack somehow .... never happened.

Doesn't change anything. The pathing is still borked, and it happens with great regularity. This just isn't an example. I thought it was, tho - I'll grant that.

None of you are going to believe a word of that. So be it.

[Artanis]

I don't control the planet. I hadn't seen that.

While that explains much, it just means that something else is wrong. Cause I ordered the attack, and watched the pods drop - then I built more ships. I had not noticed that my troops are still in orbit, and the attack somehow .... never happened.

Yeah, I've noticed some issues with armies deciding not to land since 2.0 hit. For me, at least, it seems that whenever a defending army is killed by orbital bombardment, any "land on this planet" orders I've given wind up cancelled. My transports would still fly to the planet, they just wouldn't bother landing. I haven't noticed any that went back to orbit after starting the landing animation, but I wouldn't be surprised by such a thing happening.

Doesn't change anything. The pathing is still borked, and it happens with great regularity. This just isn't an example. I thought it was, tho - I'll grant that.

None of you are going to believe a word of that. So be it.

I certainly believe that you've encountered a pathfinding bug. Paradox may not be as bad as Bethesda when it comes to buggy games, but they still have their fair share. The problem here was that the specific screenshot you provided didn't actually show a bug. If there's other screenshots of the bug in question, then people would have no reason to disbelieve them

[Kaptin Keen]

Yeah, I've noticed some issues with armies deciding not to land since 2.0 hit. For me, at least, it seems that whenever a defending army is killed by orbital bombardment, any "land on this planet" orders I've given wind up cancelled. My transports would still fly to the planet, they just wouldn't bother landing. I haven't noticed any that went back to orbit after starting the landing animation, but I wouldn't be surprised by such a thing happening.

I'm so sure I watched the pods drop. Where'd my invasion go?! oO

And I remember this planet, it's has more defenders than the others I've taken. I was worried whether I'd win or not.

I certainly believe that you've encountered a pathfinding bug. Paradox may not be as bad as Bethesda when it comes to buggy games, but they still have their fair share. The problem here was that the specific screenshot you provided didn't actually show a bug. If there's other screenshots of the bug in question, then people would have no reason to disbelieve them

Would you believe I never encountered a bug in Skyrim?

But yea, it was an exceedingly poor choice of screenshot. I was absolutely certain it was the pathing bug - but turns out I didn't have the planet taken. I wouldn't even have left if I wasn't positive I had it. Why would I? =)

[Silverraptor]

Yeah. The FTL on planets are annoying. One of my friends in his game jump drived into an enemy system, only to discover on landing it had an FTL and he couldn't get out. He was complaining so much to me about how the FTL is on a planet and he can't get his troops there, and I kindly suggested why doesn't he bombard the planet into oblivion. He admitted he never thought of that.

[Olinser]

{Scrubbed}

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So, leaving aside non-existing bugs for a moment, can I get some advice on how well I'm doing? Take into account I am playing 2.0 vanilla (no DLCs). I have 3 fleets of 110 command each, with strengths of ~18k each. I have tier 4 lasers & missiles, and tier 5 shields (I'm behind in armour and guns). I just cakewalked a war to take over a fanatical purifier (so nice to not need claims, BTW). As far as I can tell, no other regular empire can stand up to my armies at current, but I don't think I can take on a fallen empire quite just yet. I've just unlocked the gaia transformation perk, and as an alumni of MoO2 I'll be dumping all my energy into that for the time being. Unfortunately, I cannot say what date I'm at.

My concern is that I'm falling behind on tech because of the sheer size of my Empire. When should I start worrying about the end game crisis, and is there an easy way to see if I am growing/tech-ing quickly enough to not get stomped?

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

[Drasius]

So, leaving aside non-existing bugs for a moment, can I get some advice on how well I'm doing? Take into account I am playing 2.0 vanilla (no DLCs). I have 3 fleets of 110 command each, with strengths of ~18k each. I have tier 4 lasers & missiles, and tier 5 shields (I'm behind in armour and guns). I just cakewalked a war to take over a fanatical purifier (so nice to not need claims, BTW). As far as I can tell, no other regular empire can stand up to my armies at current, but I don't think I can take on a fallen empire quite just yet. I've just unlocked the gaia transformation perk, and as an alumni of MoO2 I'll be dumping all my energy into that for the time being. Unfortunately, I cannot say what date I'm at.

My concern is that I'm falling behind on tech because of the sheer size of my Empire. When should I start worrying about the end game crisis, and is there an easy way to see if I am growing/tech-ing quickly enough to not get stomped?

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

Endgame starts after 2400.

FE's start awakening after you any non-FE has over 50k combined fleet, but can't happen before 2300 IIRC. There's other awakening conditions, but that's the one that'll do it for >95% of players. IIRC, they've got 5 of each repeatable tech and multiple >100k fleets, so, yeah, you're gonna get punked at your current level.

Worst comes to worst, submit to them when they awaken and ride it out while teching and growing your fleet while their decadance sets in. It'll take a while, but eventually anyone can break out from an overlord AE.

[GloatingSwine]

So, leaving aside non-existing bugs for a moment, can I get some advice on how well I'm doing? Take into account I am playing 2.0 vanilla (no DLCs). I have 3 fleets of 110 command each, with strengths of ~18k each. I have tier 4 lasers & missiles, and tier 5 shields (I'm behind in armour and guns). I just cakewalked a war to take over a fanatical purifier (so nice to not need claims, BTW). As far as I can tell, no other regular empire can stand up to my armies at current, but I don't think I can take on a fallen empire quite just yet. I've just unlocked the gaia transformation perk, and as an alumni of MoO2 I'll be dumping all my energy into that for the time being. Unfortunately, I cannot say what date I'm at.

My concern is that I'm falling behind on tech because of the sheer size of my Empire. When should I start worrying about the end game crisis, and is there an easy way to see if I am growing/tech-ing quickly enough to not get stomped?

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

Endgame crises can spawn from 2400 onwards, but might not happen straight away. Likewise FEs awakening. 3x 18k would let you defend yourself against the Great Khan, but not really prosecute offensive actions.

It's kinda hard to say whether you're teching "enough" in Stellaris because it's better to have certain key techs than a lot of tech, so even "slow" tech rate isn't necessarily a problem if you focus on the right things (torpedoes, energy and mineral income).

[Kaptin Keen]

{Scrubbed}

[Caelestion]

{Scrubbed}

[Olinser]

{Scrubbed}

[Olinser]

So, leaving aside non-existing bugs for a moment, can I get some advice on how well I'm doing? Take into account I am playing 2.0 vanilla (no DLCs). I have 3 fleets of 110 command each, with strengths of ~18k each. I have tier 4 lasers & missiles, and tier 5 shields (I'm behind in armour and guns). I just cakewalked a war to take over a fanatical purifier (so nice to not need claims, BTW). As far as I can tell, no other regular empire can stand up to my armies at current, but I don't think I can take on a fallen empire quite just yet. I've just unlocked the gaia transformation perk, and as an alumni of MoO2 I'll be dumping all my energy into that for the time being. Unfortunately, I cannot say what date I'm at.

My concern is that I'm falling behind on tech because of the sheer size of my Empire. When should I start worrying about the end game crisis, and is there an easy way to see if I am growing/tech-ing quickly enough to not get stomped?

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

What year is it and what year did you set the endgame slider on? That's going to dramatically affect whether you'll be ready or not. If you've got 100 years until the first possible spawn then you're sitting pretty, you can expand and max out your naval capacity and be ready to steamroll without big issue.

If the slider was set at 2400 and you're at 2390..... you're probably screwed.

So how long you have will heavily influence an assessment.

In general, 3 fleets of 18k feels kind of weak if you already have T4 weapons and T5 shields, have you not unlocked Cruisers or Battleships yet?

What's your income and starbase capacity look like? If you have high income what you probably need to do is start setting up anchorage farms in your territory with 6x Anchorage and Logisitics office, for +36 naval capacity per starbase. If your income isn't high then you need to go a-conquering and colonizing to get it up (giggity), and then build up your fleet capacity.

Most of the endgame crisis right now require a very strong group of fleets to be able to beat - although some are tougher than others but a good rule of thumb is 700+ naval capacity to have a good chance. I just finished beating a Contingency, for instance, and each node spawned with a 250k fleet power fleet defending it and multiple 115k fleets doing the attacking. I beat each node relatively easily with 6x max fleets of 190 command and ships designed to beat them, but still took heavy losses on each node and had to remax for a couple years before I could go on to the next node.

Most of them are similar power, although they have different strengths and weaknesses, but in general assuming you haven't changed the strength sliders, 700 power will give you a good chance - much lower and you run the very real risk of having the crisis spawn on you and wipe you out, and AI's aren't doing anything to stop crisis in general.

If you're really worried you can take the Guardian of the Galaxy unity perk, that significantly lowers the threat of endgame crisis with the massive buff to damage.

[Gnoman]

Haven't played in quite awhile, started again when I saw (rather late) that the new patch was out. I've opted into the beta patch. I'm finding fleet combat to be incredibly annoying, because actually killing things is difficult. Enemy ships just teleport out whenever they take any real damage, so early game engagements of ~1500 strength per side regularly end with no destroyed ships - I keep the battlefield, the enemy ran away. This isn't so bad, but I keep being stuck at a few points from winning wars because of the "relative fleet strength" modifier being tilted toward the enemy. If I could actually blow up their ships without taking great efforts to force it (such as maneuvering to catch them as soon as they enter the system), I could eliminate their fleet strength and get a victory two hours earlier.