Ways of Increasing Player Character Size

[Highfeather]

Inspired by the recent topic asking for ways to make the Fey Beast (from the Fey Beast Tamer Theme) Large, I'm currently trying to figure out what ways there are to make a PC larger instead.
Starting from Medium, that is, so Large and bigger only. There are plenty of Polymorph powers that directly change your size to either Small or Medium, which is not what we're looking for here.

So far, what I know of:

Dire Beast Totem (Item 10+) - Earliest opportunity, but really only for Wild Shape Druids. Sets size to Large as a Daily. Reliant on Wild Shape, so Polymorph keyword.

Sovereign Beast (Druid ED) - Again for Wild Shape Druids. Also sets size to Large. Reliant on Wild Shape, so Polymorph keyword.

Mare's Body (Wizard Daily Utility 16) - Increases your size by one category, but also gimps the usage of close attacks. It explicitly says your weapons don't grow, but you should be able to still use size-appropriate weapons if you have them. Polymorph keyword, may or may not stack with the above options. A second Polymorph power suppresses the first, but both of the Druid options do explicitly change your size to Large. Mare's Body then increases your size category again by one, so perhaps it stacks.

Giant's Might (Swordmage Daily Utility 22) - Increase your size by one category. No Polymorph keywords, ifs or buts. Just increases your size by one category and can increase your reach by 1 as well. Perfect!

Draconic Incarnation (Arcane ED) - Anti-death feature sets size to Large, no keyword. Daily Utility sets size to Huge, Polymorph keyword.


Now, all these options come into play quite late (with the exception of the Dire Beast Totem) and are quite restrictive. I'm probably missing a bunch of powers in the list above, but I also wonder if there are any other tricks you could play around with.
For example, I was looking at rituals and Beast Growth seems potent if you could get the 'natural' origin and 'beast' type as to count as a natural beast. Which seems like a no-go since no race has the 'beast' type. The closest are the Hengeyokai which have the 'magical beast' type, which doesn't count either. (And their origin is Fey anyway.) Similarly, Polymorph stuff changes your physical form and does not change your type or make you count as the creature you shapeshift into, so that's right out as well.

So, anybody know what I'm missing? I know WoTC were likely against large races as they never published any (and Oversized was removed for Minotaurs), but there has to be something you can work with...

[ThePurple]

So, anybody know what I'm missing? I know WoTC were likely against large races as they never published any (and Oversized was removed for Minotaurs), but there has to be something you can work with...

There's also the Eternal Defender ED that, while it doesn't increase your size category explicitly, it does everything but: Godlike Stature (24th level): Your size doesn't change, but your height and weight increase to 25 percent and 100 percent above the normal range for your race, respectively. You can wield weapons as if you were one size larger, and if you are normally Medium or larger, your melee reach increases by 1 square. A previous feature also increases carrying capacity which is another thing that size category increases tend to do.

[Dimers]

Druid daily attack L25, Primal Ape

Emerald Guardian warden PP, level 20 daily attack, puts you into a Large guardian form.
Legendary Witch witch PP, level 20 daily attack, turns you into a Large unicorn or nightmare.
Storm Disciple battlemind PP, level 20 daily attack, gives you an alternate augment for your battlemind AWs that turns you into a 7-square windstorm for a moment.

Bahamut's Vessel ED, 30th level, once per day upon being dropped to 0
Wild Hunter ED, 30th level, once per day when starting your turn at or below 0
Dragon King ED's level 26 daily utility

[darkdragoon]

Form of the Night Owl (Druid D19) is generally considered iffy but has some "I need to get over there" applications.

[ve4grm]

You know, I hadn't realized I needed this list until it existed.

We're converting characters from a 3.5e game, including a Bear Warrior Barbarian who could turn into a large bear.

Eternal Defender will be perfect for her. Large-sized Fullblade, here we come! Thanks!

[UndertakerSheep]

Related question from a DM whose group is returning to 4e after more than a year. Why did the designers make it so hard for players to increase their size?

During our talk about the new characters, the size of half giants came up. I knew 4e made it hard for PCs to become large but I didn't know why. Is it a balance thing?

[masteraleph]

There are any number of ways that being Large affects things:

1) It drastically increases your targeting ability for a number of things, such as melee attacks (instead of having 8 squares adjacent on ground level), you have 12, Close Blasts (can start in any adjacent square), auras are bigger, etc. That's assuming reach 1, but pretty much every large creature actually has reach 2, which is another issue for melee.

2) Causes problems with inside encounters (5 foot-wide hallways become a major issue).

Basically, 4e powers and abilities are written assuming that you are one square big and have reach 1. Even the Tiny race, Pixies, were given Reach 1, because dealing with Reach 0 was going to cause too many headaches. Even Reach 2 itself can break things at times, and that's something the designers were planning for from PHB1.

[ThePurple]

There are any number of ways that being Large affects things:

There's also the thing with being increasing the size of a character also increasing the size of the weapon damage die. It doesn't do much when you're only doing 1[W] per attack, but it can make a pretty significant difference when you're in deep end epic and throwing out 10[W] with a daily (especially on a crit).

[masteraleph]

There's also the thing with being increasing the size of a character also increasing the size of the weapon damage die. It doesn't do much when you're only doing 1[W] per attack, but it can make a pretty significant difference when you're in deep end epic and throwing out 10[W] with a daily (especially on a crit).

Eh, kind of, but by the time you're getting 10[W] dailies you're very high level, and it's not that big a jump on a non-crit (or even, once per daily, on a daily/crit). That's because of the weapon die sequence:

1d4-1d6-1d8-2d4-1d10-1d12-2d6-2d8-2d10

Sounds impressive, but the expected value on a non-crit is:

2.5-3.5-4.5-5-5.5-6.5-7-9-11

That is, increasing a weapon die size averages 1 to 2 points of extra damage per [W]. That could be significant if you're regularly doing high [W] attacks, but it's not super ridiculous. There's even a playable race, albeit a monster manual one, that lets you use a weapon one size larger.

[tiornys]

Gotta agree. Increased weapon die isn't completely negligible, but it's merely the icing on the large-sized overpowered cake.

[ThePurple]

There's even a playable race, albeit a monster manual one, that lets you use a weapon one size larger.

Minotaur originally had that as well but they removed it tout-de-suite when they published minotaur in PH3. In pretty much all of the (decent quality) homebrew I've seen involving bugbear also removes it and replaces it with the much more balanced additional healing surge.

[Yakk]

Eh, kind of, but by the time you're getting 10[W] dailies you're very high level, and it's not that big a jump on a non-crit (or even, once per daily, on a daily/crit). That's because of the weapon die sequence:

1d4-1d6-1d8-2d4-1d10-1d12-2d6-2d8-2d10

Sounds impressive, but the expected value on a non-crit is:

2.5-3.5-4.5-5-5.5-6.5-7-9-11

That is, increasing a weapon die size averages 1 to 2 points of extra damage per [W]. That could be significant if you're regularly doing high [W] attacks, but it's not super ridiculous. There's even a playable race, albeit a monster manual one, that lets you use a weapon one size larger.

And [W] doesn't deal damage, static damage and taps do. There are no good 10[W] powers in 4e, even with a damage bump like the above

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Also don't forget Brutal. Brutal scales with the number of dice, so d12B2 going to 2d6B2 goes from 7.5 to 9, or 1d8B2 goes from 5.5 to 7 (in theory).

Add in Vorpral and 2d6B2 becomes 2 * (1d6B2V).

E(1d6B2V) = 1/4 * (E(3)+E(4)+E(5)+E(6+1d6B2V))
E(1d6B2V) = 1/4 * (3+4+5+6+E(1d6B2V))
E(1d6B2V) = 4.5 + 1/4 * E(1d6B2V)
3/4 E(1d6B2V) = 4.5
E(1d6B2V) = 6

So it is now 12 damage average per [W]. Mix that with a high-[W] attack and that is worth considering.

If you manage a 2d4B2 weapon you get 14 damage per [W] (Dark Sun Carrikal, large sized, Vorpral).

Still, the effective "balance premium" on [W] dice is so high that this isn't as effective as more static damage and more hits. Still could be fun.