LGBTAI+ #59: Will You Take This Woman To Be Your Galpal?

[Florian]

I’m trying out binding with KT tape (not TransTape though because shipping from the US is so fricking expensive) and so far I’m not completely happy with it. It makes me a bit flatter, but not as flat as I would like, and also not as flat as a binder. But I think with a bit more practise it will work better, so I’m still hopeful. Also, it doesn’t hurt at all (and even feels kinda nice), so that makes it much better than a binder - I can’t often wear my binder because anything tight around my chest hurts my ribs and back (even a fairly soft sports bra, or a normal bra). So if I can get it to work a bit better still, I think it will be a good option for me for days when I just can’t stand not binding.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but breasts consist basically on fat matter and the female body type uses them as one of the major areas to store energy in (upper legs, butt, calves, breasts). By the pictures you've posted, you, well, look pretty slim and androgynous. How´s your experience with using sports and workout to counter the buildup in the first place?

[noparlpf]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but breasts consist basically of fat matter and the female body type uses them as one of the major areas to store energy in (upper legs, butt, calves, breasts). By the pictures you've posted, you, well, look pretty slim and androgynous. How´s your experience with using sports and workout to counter the buildup in the first place?

Breasts are part fat and part mammary gland, the latter of which doesn't really respond to weight loss. If somebody loses weight their breast size will decrease to some extent, but breast size is also dependent on stuff like genetics and hormone levels. Look at like, gymnasts or marathon runners; some of them have such low body fat/are essentially constantly undernourished that they can experience amenorrhea, but even though they're generally pretty flat most of them still have more mammary tissue than their cis male counterparts. And getting your body fat that low isn't super healthy either.

[Florian]

Breasts are part fat and part mammary gland, the latter of which doesn't really respond to weight loss. If somebody loses weight their breast size will decrease to some extent, but breast size is also dependent on stuff like genetics and hormone levels. Look at like, gymnasts or marathon runners; some of them have such low body fat/are essentially constantly undernourished that they can experience amenorrhea, but even though they're generally pretty flat most of them still have more mammary tissue than their cis male counterparts. And getting your body fat that low isn't super healthy either.

Context. I hinted at female and male body types and typical "problem zones" with that for a reason, that is beyond "tits". Our young Nürmberger here is quite young, so prone to tackle the obvious, but the actually challenging point is how to handle a body with 30 or 40.

[Lycunadari]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but breasts consist basically on fat matter and the female body type uses them as one of the major areas to store energy in (upper legs, butt, calves, breasts). By the pictures you've posted, you, well, look pretty slim and androgynous. How´s your experience with using sports and workout to counter the buildup in the first place?

I don't think you can "exercise away" breasts- exercising chests musculature/general upper body muscle can help with making them less noticeable, but you need A LOT of muscles to get anyway near to not needing to bind. I have seen some pictures of trans guys who did manage to get their chest to look close enough to a cis man's chest to be able to pass while shirtless through working out, but they have all been very, very buff. And even if that was achievable for me, that's not a look I want (and I'm pretty sure one would also have to be on HRT to get to that look). That said, while I'd definitely like to do more exercise (because even if I don't get to a "don't need to bind at all" level, it would still help somewhat), I'm disabled/chronically ill, so most of the time exercising is just not possible for me, as simply doing every day activities (cooking, showering, walking to uni etc) takes up all the energy I have. And I'm actually trying to gain weight- I'm underweight and losing any more would be actively dangerous for me.

[TechnOkami]

q u e s t i o n

Salutations and greetings. I think this is the first time I've posted in this thread, come to think of it.

I am trying to come to a personal understanding of if I am asexual or aromantic (or something else I have not thought of), and would like to know if anyone has good resources to read or watch which would assist in said self-analysis and determination.

[Icewraith]

I don't think you can "exercise away" breasts- exercising chests musculature/general upper body muscle can help with making them less noticeable, but you need A LOT of muscles to get anyway near to not needing to bind. I have seen some pictures of trans guys who did manage to get their chest to look close enough to a cis man's chest to be able to pass while shirtless through working out, but they have all been very, very buff. And even if that was achievable for me, that's not a look I want (and I'm pretty sure one would also have to be on HRT to get to that look). That said, while I'd definitely like to do more exercise (because even if I don't get to a "don't need to bind at all" level, it would still help somewhat), I'm disabled/chronically ill, so most of the time exercising is just not possible for me, as simply doing every day activities (cooking, showering, walking to uni etc) takes up all the energy I have. And I'm actually trying to gain weight- I'm underweight and losing any more would be actively dangerous for me.

It is possible to significantly diminish breasts through exercise... if you've got the time and energy to work out at the level of a professional gymnast or actor on a martial-arts heavy film shoot for a couple of years. But you can't usually target specific areas of your body to remove fat from via exercise. Overall, if you lower your body fat %, fat deposits (including breasts) will shrink. But you don't control how your body determines which reserves to pull from first, so areas may not shrink proportionately to the % of body fat lost.

Doing a ton of pushups won't necessarily shrink your breasts better than any other exercise, but you also won't get bulky chest muscles if your body's not testosterone-dominant so they probably won't make things worse. Pushups can be done anywhere and require no extra equipment, so they're not a bad place to start if you're looking to start exercising. (Look up how to do them correctly if your only memories are from grade school/talk to your doctor if you have other physical limitations)

It sounds like your health goals (gain weight), desired body type (androgynous), and body chemistry (estrogen-dominant) are in conflict.

[JusticeZero]

I am trying to come to a personal understanding of if I am asexual or aromantic (or something else I have not thought of), and would like to know if anyone has good resources to read or watch which would assist in said self-analysis and determination.

The main issue I find is that the stories of people who are repulsed are very different from the stories of sex+ and sex= aces. How about if you start telling what you are experiencing and feeling, and maybe it will help?
There are a few analogies that a lot of aces resonate with - my favorite is the "invisible elephant".

At a certain age, everybody gets an elephant that is invisible to everybody but themselves. People talk a lot about their elephant, compare each other's elephant, most television shows and movies involve people's elephant in some way, shape or form.
You grow up, get to the age of elephanting, and... no elephant.
But nobody will tell you what elephants are supposed to look like because 'Just look at your elephant!' You look everywhere. Are elephants just very small? Maybe that wind moving the grass was an elephant? You still just do not get elephant jokes because you can't find any elephants. And nobody will believe that you can't find yours.

One other one was the music one, again by an aro - a series of comics where everybody in the world would suddenly and randomly break out into song and dance musical numbers.. but you just couldn't hear the music.

[Anymage]

q u e s t i o n

Salutations and greetings. I think this is the first time I've posted in this thread, come to think of it.

I am trying to come to a personal understanding of if I am asexual or aromantic (or something else I have not thought of), and would like to know if anyone has good resources to read or watch which would assist in said self-analysis and determination.

I don't know if this'll help, but your outlook is totally alien to me.

I'm heavily on the side that language is descriptive, not prescriptive. There is no licensing board to determine if you're a proper ace/aro, and you're not locked into anything if you change your mind later. (We can think someone is obnoxious if they have to make a big production to everybody within earshot, and we can think someone is strange if their stated label is strongly at odds with their observed behavior, but both those problems are easy to avoid.) If you're utterly disinterested in romance and/or sex, just be upfront about as much. If you're actively uncomfortable around the ideas, you can express that just as well too. And if sex/romance sound nice in theory but not worth the effort in practice, that's easy to communicate too.

Oftentimes it's worth taking a moment away from the tumblr vocabulary and try stating things in plain English. That can help focus your thoughts much better, and focus on what you want over how well you fit into predefined boxes.

[Lissou]

I don't know if this'll help, but your outlook is totally alien to me.

I'm heavily on the side that language is descriptive, not descriptive.

I'm guessing one of these was supposed to be "prescriptive"?

[ve4grm]

I don't know if this'll help, but your outlook is totally alien to me.

I'm heavily on the side that language is descriptive, not prescriptive. There is no licensing board to determine if you're a proper ace/aro, and you're not locked into anything if you change your mind later. (We can think someone is obnoxious if they have to make a big production to everybody within earshot, and we can think someone is strange if their stated label is strongly at odds with their observed behavior, but both those problems are easy to avoid.) If you're utterly disinterested in romance and/or sex, just be upfront about as much. If you're actively uncomfortable around the ideas, you can express that just as well too. And if sex/romance sound nice in theory but not worth the effort in practice, that's easy to communicate too.

Oftentimes it's worth taking a moment away from the tumblr vocabulary and try stating things in plain English. That can help focus your thoughts much better, and focus on what you want over how well you fit into predefined boxes.

While I agree in theory, I think that as humans we like to label things. It helps us understand them, gets us past the fear of the unknown.

For example, I have mental health issues. Everything was scary and uncertain at first, until I discovered that what was causing it was (generally) OCD. Once I had a name, a label to put on it, I could begin to understand and deal with what I was feeling. It was no longer this nebulous unknown feeling that I couldn't identify.

Not that being ace/aro is something that needs to be "dealt with" or combatted, of course. But as something that needs to be understood and lived with, having a name for it can be very useful, even if that name isn't 100% accurate to start off.

That said, taking a step back, as you say, and trying to describe your feelings in simple words can definitely help. Even if it's just to identify the situation so you can assign a name.

[noparlpf]

q u e s t i o n

Salutations and greetings. I think this is the first time I've posted in this thread, come to think of it.

I am trying to come to a personal understanding of if I am asexual or aromantic (or something else I have not thought of), and would like to know if anyone has good resources to read or watch which would assist in said self-analysis and determination.

Reading the forums on AVEN could help just to get a lot of different ace-spectrum perspectives to compare.

[Jormengand]

I don't know if this'll help, but your outlook is totally alien to me.

I'm heavily on the side that language is descriptive, not prescriptive. There is no licensing board to determine if you're a proper ace/aro

Linguistic descriptivism doesn't necessarily mean that words don't actually have specified meanings, honestly. They're just specified via a different process - it means that the criteria for asexuality become "Would anyone actually call you asexual?" rather than "Do you meet the criteria defined by the etymology?".

[Lycunadari]

q u e s t i o n

Salutations and greetings. I think this is the first time I've posted in this thread, come to think of it.

I am trying to come to a personal understanding of if I am asexual or aromantic (or something else I have not thought of), and would like to know if anyone has good resources to read or watch which would assist in said self-analysis and determination.

This blog has a ton of resources about asexuality (and some about aromanticism). If you start at the FAQ or check out the articles or reference tags, I'm sure you'll find some useful things there.

JusticeZero has already talked about the elephant analogy, another one that I like is about turtles: Most people have turtles in their ponds, but I haven't seen any in mine. Does that mean there are no turtles? How can I know for sure that there are no turtles in my pond? Maybe they are just really good at hiding, or I just haven't looked enough. Or maybe there are turtles, but I just haven't recognised them? What even are turtles?

Knowing for sure that you are ace or aro can be difficult, because proving the absence of something, especially of something so nebulous as "attraction", especially especially if you aren't even sure what you are looking for, is almost impossible. But if you feel like ace or aro (or any of the subcategories, like demisexual or grey-aro/ace) as a label fits you, and you want to identify that way, you don't have to be 100% sure. If you feel like calling yourself ace or aro is useful for you, then that's what you are.

Spoiler: Some personal ramblings

Show

Like, I call myself grey ace because I think, in theory, I could be attracted to someone. I was maybe attracted to a friend in highschool who I had a crush on, but I'm not sure, because feelings are complicated and I have no idea how to categorise the feelings I had for her. And I can make up fictional characters that I find attractive, so maybe I will at some point meet someone who has the same characteristics as these characters, and maybe I will be attracted to them. Or maybe I won't because attraction suddenly stops existing for me when it comes to real people. Who knows! I don't, so I call myself grey ace because that sums up my complicated relationship with sexual attraction pretty nicely.
Now, my feelings about romantic attraction are similar. I'm preeetty sure I was romantically attracted to my friend, but not 100% sure. That also was the only time I had serious feelings for someone. I've had a few very, very short lived spikes of romantic feelings for other people since then, but nothing serious. And what I wrote about fictional characters above is the same here as well. So I could probably call myself grey aro as well, going purely by definition, but I don't. I don't really feel like it fits, it doesn't feel useful for me, and it might communicate to people that I'm not interested in having a romantic relationship, which is not true. So I just don't use that label for myself.

So, what I'm saying is, look at how you feel, and then look if there is a label that explains your feelings, and then you can decide if you want to use that label or if you'd rather not.

It is possible to significantly diminish breasts through exercise... if you've got the time and energy to work out at the level of a professional gymnast or actor on a martial-arts heavy film shoot for a couple of years. But you can't usually target specific areas of your body to remove fat from via exercise. Overall, if you lower your body fat %, fat deposits (including breasts) will shrink. But you don't control how your body determines which reserves to pull from first, so areas may not shrink proportionately to the % of body fat lost.

Doing a ton of pushups won't necessarily shrink your breasts better than any other exercise, but you also won't get bulky chest muscles if your body's not testosterone-dominant so they probably won't make things worse. Pushups can be done anywhere and require no extra equipment, so they're not a bad place to start if you're looking to start exercising. (Look up how to do them correctly if your only memories are from grade school/talk to your doctor if you have other physical limitations)

It sounds like your health goals (gain weight), desired body type (androgynous), and body chemistry (estrogen-dominant) are in conflict.

Yeah, I'm aware of all that. Like I said, I know that getting rid of my breasts through exercise is not possible for me, I just wrote about that because Florian brought it up.

And you have just perfectly summed up the source of my dysphoria. Though I actually don't think gaining weight will make it worse- looking back at pictures from before I lost so much weight, what has changed is mostly the size of my waist, so assuming my body will put any new fat where it used to be, I should actually get less curvy when I manage to gain weight again.

Oftentimes it's worth taking a moment away from the tumblr vocabulary and try stating things in plain English. That can help focus your thoughts much better, and focus on what you want over how well you fit into predefined boxes.

Hey, calling asexuality tumblr vocabulary is not fair. AVEN was founded in 2001, years before tumblr was a thing, and I'm sure people were using that word even before that. And I second everything ve4grm said about the usefulness of having labels do describe your experience.

[ve4grm]

JusticeZero has already talked about the elephant analogy, another one that I like is about turtles: Most people have turtles in their ponds, but I haven't seen any in mine. Does that mean there are no turtles? How can I know for sure that there are no turtles in my pond? Maybe they are just really good at hiding, or I just haven't looked enough. Or maybe there are turtles, but I just haven't recognised them? What even are turtles?

Now I just have this image of Steve Irwin wading through a pond, looking for turtles.

"Now, we don't know exactly what they look like, but we think they should be here. Crikey! Look at the size of that beast! Is that a turtle? ...nah, the pond's just full of gators like usual."

...wait. That took a weird turn.

[Dire Moose]

I'm worried about starting HRT officially soon and continuing the stopgap measures I've been doing as well. While I do want to express myself as female and be able to appear female even when wearing little to no clothing, I am afraid that HRT will also keep me from expressing myself as male effectively.

I'm genderfluid, and have lately been realizing that I can't live without my male side despite still wanting to be female as well. I need to be able to express both without issues, but unfortunately there is one major conflict. As female I want to have decent sized, visible breasts, which I have wished for for many years, but I also don't want to have to bind myself as male. Thus, I'm really struggling with whether I should continue hormones or not.

[Icewraith]

I'm worried about starting HRT officially soon and continuing the stopgap measures I've been doing as well. While I do want to express myself as female and be able to appear female even when wearing little to no clothing, I am afraid that HRT will also keep me from expressing myself as male effectively.

I'm genderfluid, and have lately been realizing that I can't live without my male side despite still wanting to be female as well. I need to be able to express both without issues, but unfortunately there is one major conflict. As female I want to have decent sized, visible breasts, which I have wished for for many years, but I also don't want to have to bind myself as male. Thus, I'm really struggling with whether I should continue hormones or not.

I'm pretty sure there are high quality prosthetics that will do a lot of what you want when you do want breasts.

[Dire Moose]

I'm pretty sure there are high quality prosthetics that will do a lot of what you want when you do want breasts.

I said I wanted BREASTS as female. As in REAL breasts. I definitely did NOT say I wanted fake prosthetics to make it LOOK like I have breasts.

Apologies for the bad attitude, but I am really frustrated about this right now.

[lio45]

I said I wanted BREASTS as female. As in REAL breasts. I definitely did NOT say I wanted fake prosthetics to make it LOOK like I have breasts.

Apologies for the bad attitude, but I am really frustrated about this right now.

Apologies in advance for this, but I don't think a genderfluid person can realistically hope to have instant genuine breasts whenever they want to have breasts, and have no breasts whenever they don't want breasts. His advice was decently reasonable as far as possible ways to be able to flip a on/off switch for breasts go.

[Dire Moose]

I get that. On the other hand, I'm definitely not unhappy with the growth I've already had up top, and I'm not entirely sure wearing a binder would be that much worse then wearing a bra.

Meanwhile, from what I've seen HRT rarely gives you anything truly huge, so it's unlikely to get something that easy to notice.

[Recherché]

Ambiguous breasts and either a push up bra or a tight undershirt depending on how you feel that day might be your best bet then.

[Icewraith]

I said I wanted BREASTS as female. As in REAL breasts. I definitely did NOT say I wanted fake prosthetics to make it LOOK like I have breasts.

Apologies for the bad attitude, but I am really frustrated about this right now.

Medical prostheses are designed in part for women who have undergone single mastectomies and want to look and feel as natural as possible without undergoing more surgery. Some are specifically designed to participate during sex, feel realistic to the partner, match the remaining breast in appearance and movement, and be worn topless.

These things need to be good enough to not trigger dysphoria or similar trauma in a woman who knows damn well she had to have one of her breasts surgically removed before it could kill her. That's a REALLY high bar.

Is it a perfect solution? No. But it's something to look into, and it's reversible (with some effort) for when you're feeling male.

Also, HRT results can vary... but I know for a fact that large breasts are a possible outcome. I just don't know what the rough percentages are. My experience with the universe is that if you don't control the outcome of an event with variable results, and it is expensive or permanent, the result will usually be the opposite of what you want while technically achieving your objective. You should at least have a plan for how you're going to deal with mountains instead of foothills while your fluidity is male in case you turn out to be a breast growing prodigy.

[The Extinguisher]

Also, HRT results can vary... but I know for a fact that large breasts are a possible outcome. I just don't know what the rough percentages are. My experience with the universe is that if you don't control the outcome of an event with variable results, and it is expensive or permanent, the result will usually be the opposite of what you want while technically achieving your objective. You should at least have a plan for how you're going to deal with mountains instead of foothills while your fluidity is male in case you turn out to be a breast growing prodigy.

yeah it mostly comes down to genetics there. if youre predisposed to grow large breasts then your gonna do than when you start getting estrogen, whether it comes in puberty one or two

[Lentrax]

I am really missing health insurance. Without it, I am pretty sure I am going to have to figure out self medicating so I can start HRT. But at the same time, that kinda scares me if something goes wrong. Which in my life, is probably an absolute certainty...

[Shadowscale]

I get that. On the other hand, I'm definitely not unhappy with the growth I've already had up top, and I'm not entirely sure wearing a binder would be that much worse then wearing a bra.

Meanwhile, from what I've seen HRT rarely gives you anything truly huge, so it's unlikely to get something that easy to notice.

As an agendered person who doesn't like 'er breasts, I highly advice against binding them whilst they're still growing.

[Mariah]

Agree with Shadowscale something like a tight T-shirt or a sports bra to help minimize without causing damage to the growing breasts if it becomes an issue for you.

[JusticeZero]

My advice? Just grow the boobs. On guy days wear loose clothes and a sports bra. Lots of guys end up with breasts for various medical reasons. Clothes can cover them. And most trans girls don't end up with amazingly huge breasts anyways.

[Astrella]

Bluh, I keep drifting back to reading terf-y stuff and it's really been messing with my head and it just gnaws and gnaws the thought that they're really right in the end and that I'm essentially being awful by transitioning. (Also all the gross stuff they say about neo-vaginas really doesn't help in the post-surgery, still needing lots of care phase) And that basically everyone's just humoring me and really thinks I'm despicable actually, even cis people who say they support us.

I am really missing health insurance. Without it, I am pretty sure I am going to have to figure out self medicating so I can start HRT. But at the same time, that kinda scares me if something goes wrong. Which in my life, is probably an absolute certainty...

*offers hugs*

If you start out slowly and on a low dose and slowly build up and mind any adverse reactions you should be okay; (estrogen)-based HRT (I'm not super familiar with potential testosterone side-effects, but it's a lot harder to get access too considering it can be used for doping purposes in sports) is pretty low on the risk-scale looking at meds overall.

[JusticeZero]

I went with injections, personally. Inexpensive, very stable if you split it up at high frequency (mine is twice a week), and very safe compared to pills. The estradiol itself is pretty safe. Blockers gave me a lot of problems, but I don't use blockers anymore. I have an NP who double checks my dose and blood draws every few months, but I basically manage it myself otherwise. If you find somebody that isn't a gatekeeper, you don't have to take much of their time at all.

[3WhiteFox3]

I'm new to the thread, but I've been really struggling with my gender-identity and sexuality recently. I've always questioned my gender, but people always told me it was a phase and I'd grow out of it (if I ever mentioned it at all, because I often felt ashamed of my fantasies involving not being my assigned gender). I'm also afraid that I have the wrong motives for questioning my gender identity, that I'm trying to distance myself because I feel like I don't fit in, not because I'm actually gender queer. I'm primarily interested in learning more about the different ways someone who identifies as LGBTAI+ understand themselves, because I've always felt that societal expectation of who I am in these areas doesn't really fit me, but I don't have a clear idea of what sexuality/gender-identity I have.

I apologize if this comes across as stilted or rambling. I'm really just anxious because I feel like it's important for me to finally start trying to find answers to my questions about who I am, but I don't really know how to start.

[Lissou]

@Astrella this sounds really rough! If have a bunch of hugs for you if you want them. I hope you're feeling better or that you will soon.