Homebrew Ritual Casting

[UrielAwakened]

One of my players pointed out that our ritual casting solution was elegant in bringing back some of that 3.5 era utility that players tend to miss in 4e so I thought we'd share our quick rules. Basically we just add this text to the Ritual Caster feat:

"As a standard action, you can cast any ritual with a casting time of 10 minutes or less if you expend 1 healing surge. You still have to pay for any component costs of casting this ritual as normal."

It's added a lot of fun solutions to problems that otherwise would not have been as solvable. For instance, it allowed the party to wall in an invincible soldier with an unkillable troll monstrosity after teleporting him into a room with it so that they could escape the prison they had rescued another NPC from. Just last session it let my players stop themselves in freefall by summoning a flight of eagles to save them from the cavern floor hundreds of feet below.

It's not a big homebrew rule but it's become a staple of our games for about 10 levels now and so far hasn't been a problem gameplay wise.

[Meta]

Seems really underpowered. Should probably remove component cost or healing surge cost. Maybe both to be safe.

[ThePurple]

One of my players pointed out that our ritual casting solution was elegant in bringing back some of that 3.5 era utility that players tend to miss in 4e so I thought we'd share our quick rules. Basically we just add this text to the Ritual Caster feat:

"As a standard action, you can cast any ritual with a casting time of 10 minutes or less if you expend 1 healing surge. You still have to pay for any component costs of casting this ritual as normal."

Sounds a lot like my homebrew version of rituals:

Rituals are not tracked. Instead, when you get the Ritual Casting feat, you choose Arcana, Nature, or Religion which determines what skill you use when attempting to cast a ritual.
Individuals with Dragonmarks can also cast Rituals that pertain to their Dragonmark. Dragonmarks have no specific associated skill. Instead, if a skill check is required, it is governed by the described desired effect.
To use a ritual, it depends upon the circumstance. During a non-combat skill challenge, you pay the ritual cost and are automatically given a success without having to make a roll. During a rest, you pay the ritual cost and make a roll to determine how effective the ritual was. Either way, the exact nature of the ritual you're attempting will have to be described (and, depending upon the description, may be ruled to be too powerful for you).
The cost of a ritual is normally 1/10 of a magic item of the level of the skill challenge or 1 healing surge. Raise Dead and creating a magical item are special cases.
Dragonmark rituals cost half as much.
This is intended to increase the usability of rituals while decreasing the need for bookkeeping.

[UrielAwakened]

Yeah we really wanted more utility and problem solving powers for a variety of reasons. We actually have a ton of homebrew type of effects, like gems that get socketed Diablo II style and summonable primal spirits ( and probably even more homebrew things we've tried and cut because they were cumbersome).

As a DM I like it because half of the time I can just throw a problem at the party and not have to come up with a way they would solve it. It's liberating.

[ThePurple]

As a DM I like it because half of the time I can just throw a problem at the party and not have to come up with a way they would solve it. It's liberating.

My reasons for my houserule come down to 2 major elements: keeping stuff balanced (by normalizing costs) and reducing bookkeeping (by no longer tracking rituals at all). It also has the advantage of allowing me to allow the magic level to vary across different campaign settings. I run in Eberron, which, imo, should have a very different feel to its magic than FR or Greyhawk (wide magic is very different than high magic).

For example, teleportation across significant distances in (my) Eberron is cutting edge magic; most people are only vaguely aware of it. Short range teleportation has been around for a long while, but the difference between the two is similar to the difference between jumping and flying (and many people refuse to teleport because they just don't think it's safe) in both the practical and perceptual sense. However, teleportation via 4e rituals isn't too restrictive when you get down to it and, given Eberron's industrial approach to magic, would very quickly render all other long distance travel irrelevant.

[MoutonRustique]

Yeah we really wanted more utility and problem solving powers for a variety of reasons. We actually have a ton of homebrew type of effects, like gems that get socketed Diablo II style and summonable primal spirits ( and probably even more homebrew things we've tried and cut because they were cumbersome).

As a DM I like it because half of the time I can just throw a problem at the party and not have to come up with a way they would solve it. It's liberating.

Dude.

You can't just throw that kind of stuff around and not post it. What kind of monster are you?! o.O

[ThePurple]

Dude.

You can't just throw that kind of stuff around and not post it. What kind of monster are you?! o.O

Well, the Eberron/Khyber/Siberys Dragonshards are basically socketed gemstones. I'm not sure what he means by "summonable primal spirits" since there's also some of those kinds of powers in the game (and it can be fluffed for a bunch more), but I'm not really seeing it as particularly unique and interesting bits of homebrew.

My primary concern would be the balance, since adding additional effects to magic items via the dragonshards is already pretty OP (such that I don't actually allow them in my game; dragonshards in my game are basically pommelstones that replace the enchantment with a different one rather than adding a new one, allowing players to have the same weapon with diff enchants).

[UrielAwakened]

Dude.

You can't just throw that kind of stuff around and not post it. What kind of monster are you?! o.O

My bad.

Spoiler: Item Gems

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Item Socketing
Item socketing allows you to get the benefits of a minor magical item within another magic item. Item socketing requires item gems, which are powerful condensed points of magical energy, usually created by an incredibly stressful situation or disenchantment ritual. In these rare instances where a magical item would otherwise be destroyed, sometimes an item gem is created instead.

In general, only weapons, implements, and armor can have sockets. An item can have a number of sockets depending on its level (1 for 1-10, 2 for 11-20, and 3 for 21-30). Non-magical items cannot have sockets. Multiple copies of the same item gem do not stack, nor do multiple copies of the same item gem "family" (Items of the same type, but different levels). Sockets must be imprinted into a magical item in order to use an item gem. The ritual to do so is trivial, and requires an Arcana check equal to 10 + the item's level to successfully imprint.

Imprint Item Gem
Ritual Level 4
Market Value: 175 gp
Component Cost: 25 gp
Time: 10 minutes
Key Skill: Arcana

After performing the ritual, you may touch an item of your level or lower and make an Arcana check with a DC of 10 + the item's level. On a success, you may imprint one item gem into a socket, up to a maximum the item may contain (1 for level 1-10, 2 for level 11-20, 3 for level 21-30).

Once an item gem is imprinted into an item, it can only be removed by a special ritual.

Salvage Item Gem
Ritual Level 8
Market Value: 680 gp
Component Cost 125 gp
Time: 1 hour
Key Skill: Arcana

After performing the ritual, you may touch an item gem of your level or lower and make an Arcana check with a DC of 10 + twice the item gem's level. On a success, you may remove the item gem without damaging it. On a failure, the item gem turns instead turns into residuum equal to its value.

Item gems are valued at 1/5th of a standard item of their level. Any items gems that are socketed in a magic item when it is disenchanted are also disenchanted, regardless of the level of the caster.

Creating Item Gems
Item gems are incredibly difficult to create, and will often happen purely by accident. Whenever a caster disenchants a magic item, there is a small chance that an item gem will be spawned instead of residuum. Whenever you cast disenchant magic item, roll 1d100. On a result of 91-100, an item gem will be created instead of residuum. The item gem will have the same properties of the item that was disenchanted, aside from any critical hit properties or enchantment bonuses.

Disenchanting an item gem will never spawn an item gem.

Item Socket Bonuses
Item gems must be socketed into a weapon, implement, or armor socket in order to function. Gems will give different bonuses depending on whether or not they were socketed into a weapon/implement or armor, with weapon properties being more offense-oriented and armor properties being more defensive.

In general, gem properties will capture any passive abilities of the item in question.

Item Gem Feats
The following feats are now available:

Refined Item Gem Creation
Requirements: 11th level, Ritual Casting feat, disenchant magic item ritual
Whenever you disenchant a magic item, you create an item gem on a roll of 86-100, rather than 91-100.

Masterful Item Gem Creation
Requirements: 21st level, Refined Item Gem Creation feat
Whenever you disenchant a magic item, you create an item gem on a roll of 81-100, rather than 86-100.

'

Spoiler: Item Gem Example

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Flaming Gem
This small red gem, a gift from a strange creature, seems to glitter like fire opal in the light.
Item Gem - Level 5 (Flaming Weapon)
Weapon: You ignore 2 fire resistance.
(Power - At-will) Free action. All untyped damage dealt by this socketed weapon or implement is fire damage. Another free action returns this damage to normal.
Armor: You gain resist 2 fire. If you already have resistance to fire, it improves by 2.

Spoiler: Primal Spirits

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Primal spirits are powerful entities of the world, whose power can be harnessed through conduits known as summoning seeds which are scattered across the world. Summoning seeds are rune stones which are attuned to the essence of the spirit itself. Primal spirits vary in strength and abilities based on their level, and cost more fate points to summon the stronger they are (Note: Fate Points are awarded at the end of each session and expire upon leveling up. Fate Points are awarded for various things, including good roleplaying, problem solving, storytelling, and being essential to your team). Each player with a summoning seed equipped gains the following power:

Summon Primal Spirit
Encounter
Standard (Special)
You disappear from the battlefield, losing line of sight and effect to all other creatures. You are considered unconscious, and any status effects or effects you are sustaining immediately end. The summoned primal spirit appears in your previous space. The primal spirit gains a full set of actions and acts immediately. The primal spirit has an initiative equal to yours.

Primal spirits do not have healing surges or action points and cannot spend healing surges to regain hit points, however they can be healed by other effects. When the primal spirit reaches 0 hit points or lower, or at the end of five minutes, the primal spirit disappears and you reappear in its previous space. You resume your previous turn order and act as normal.

You cannot summon more than one primal spirit each encounter. A list of some of the primal spirits you may encounter are included below, along with their domains of interest:

Blood Cousin – Charm, relations, tribes
Deep Winds – Underdark, wind
Dawn Mother – Bountiful harvests, migration
Everflame – Fire, endurance
Fate Weaver – Fate, travel between worlds
Great Bear – Strength, destiny
The Watcher – Prophecy, insight
The Hunter Twins – Hunting, balance, symbiosis
Permafrost – Winter, ice, dedication
Primal Beast – Ferocity, danger
Soul Worm – Dreams
Stoneroot – Earth, mountains
Stormhawk – Storms, rain, lightning
Tide Bringer – Water, diplomacy, interactions
Tree Father – Protection, forests, wildlife
Whisper – Temptation, cunning, subterfuge
World Serpent – Causality, recursion, power
Yggdrasil – Restoration, life, the world

Primal spirits have their own set of abilities they can use in combat which afford them great presence. X in a primal spirit's stat block represents your level.

Spoiler: Treefather

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Treefather

Level 1 Huge Primal Spirit (2 FPs)
HP: 50+(X*10)
AC: X+20, Fort: X+20, Ref: X+12, Will: X+14
Speed 6

Rooting Grasp - At-Will (Attack):
Standard Action, Close blast 2.
+(X+4) vs. Ref, 2d6 + X damage, and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Level 11: 3d6 + X damage.
Level 21: 5d6 + X damage.

Nature’s Bounty - At-Will (Utility):
Minor Action, Close burst 10.
One ally in the burst gets a +2 primal bonus to AC until the end of your next turn and gains 5 temporary hit points. If a player is the target of this ability twice in one round, they instead get a +3 primal bonus to AC and 10 temporary hit points.

Guardian’s Forest - Encounter (Utility):
Minor Action, Close burst 5.
Treefather creates a zone which lasts until the end of the encounter or until Treefather is unsummoned. Enemies without flying treat each square within the zone as difficult terrain, and allies treat each square within the zone as partial cover. If a creature without flying begins its turn in the zone, you may slide it 2 squares.

Goal: Treefather insists on protecting the natural world, as well as its inhabitants. By demonstrating a devotion to protecting those who rely on the natural order for survival, Treefather will grant his Pact Boon to the holder of his summoning seed.

Spoiler: Tidebringer

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Tide Bringer

Level 1 Gargantuan Primal Spirit (2 FPs)
HP: 40+(X*8)
AC: X+16, Fort: X+20, Ref: X+14, Will: X+16
Speed 5, swim 8

Tidal Wave - At-Will (Attack):
Standard Action, Close blast 5.
+(X+4) vs. Fort, 1d12 + X damage, and the target is pushed 3 squares and knocked prone.
Level 11: 2d12 + X damage.
Level 21: 3d12 + X damage.

Diffraction - At-Will (Utility):
Immediate Interrupt, when a creature hits Tide Bringer or an ally with a melee or ranged attack, Ranged 5
The ally or Tide Bringer gains insubstantial against the attack and can shift 1 square.

High Tide - Encounter (Utility):
Minor Action, Close burst 8
Tide Bringer creates a zone which lasts until the end of the encounter or until Tide Bringer is unsummoned. Squares in the zone are considered water for Tide Bringer and enemies. Choose three squares in the zone to be maelstroms. Maelstroms have "Aura 5: Whenever a creature begins its turn within the aura or enters the aura its pulled 2 squares.

Maelstrom Pulse - At-Will (Utility):
Free Action
Trigger: Whenever an enemy enters a maelstrom during its turn.
The triggering enemy takes X damage. If a prone enemy enters a maelstrom, it instead takes 5 + X damage.

Goal: Water flows everywhere, and Tide Bringer greatly values communication and diplomacy between people.Tide Bringer will grant his Pact Boon to the holder of his summoning seed only when they have demonstrated a desire to see people brought together through action and understanding.

Spoiler: Great Bear

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Great Bear

Level 1 Huge Primal Spirit (2 FPs)
HP: 60+(X*12)
AC: X+18, Fort: X+16, Ref: X+14 Will: X+16
Speed 6

Mighty Paw - At-Will (Attack):
Standard Action, Close blast 2.
+(X+6) vs. AC, 2d8 + X damage. Effect: The target is marked until the end of your next turn.
Level 11: 3d8 + X damage.
Level 21: 5d8 + X damage.

Massive Swat - At-Will (Attack)
Opportunity Action, Melee 1
Trigger: An enemy adjacent to you takes an action that provokes an opportunity attack.
+(X+6) vs. AC, 1d8 + X damage, and the target is knocked prone.
Level 11: 2d8 + X damage.
Level 21: 3d8 + X damage.

Bear Hug - At-Will (Utility):
Immediate Interrupt, Close burst 5.
Trigger: A marked enemy in the burst that you can see attacks an ally.
Shift to a square adjacent to the triggering enemy, then make the following attack:
+(X+4) vs. Ref, the target is grabbed, and the enemy takes a -4 penalty to escape.

Roar of Triumph - Encounter (Utility):
Minor Action, Close burst 10.
Each ally in the burst gets a +4 primal bonus to his or her defenses and gains resist 5 all until the end of the encounter or until Grear Bear is unsummoned.

Goal: Great Bear believes in using one's inner strength to walk the path that destiny has laid bare, and thinks that only through strength can potential be actualized. Great Bear is particularly fond of the limitless potential of children. Great Bear will only grant her Pact Boon to the wielder of her summoning seed when they have demonstrated a strong desire to fulfill their destiny through strength, as well as taken an interest in the actualization of others.

[ThePurple]

Flaming Gem
This small red gem, a gift from a strange creature, seems to glitter like fire opal in the light.
Item Gem - Level 5 (Flaming Weapon)
Weapon: You ignore 2 fire resistance.
(Power - At-will) Free action. All untyped damage dealt by this socketed weapon or implement is fire damage. Another free action returns this damage to normal.
Armor: You gain resist 2 fire. If you already have resistance to fire, it improves by 2.

That's crazy powerful, considering you can stack it on top of another magic item (especially since, as written, it also allows you to equip weapon-group specific bonuses onto other weapons; for example, you could put a crusader's weapon gem onto a non-hammer/mace or an overreaching gem onto a non-polearm). It's especially egregious considering that the most powerful aspects of weapons tend to be the very ones that these "weak" gems are supposed to bring along. Frost weapons aren't amazingly powerful because they provide +1d6 cold damage per plus on a crit or provide an extra d8 cold damage per tier and slowed until EoNT once per day; they're amazingly powerful because they allow you to turn all of your damage into cold damage and gain access to the insanity that is frostcheese. The same is true of Avalanche hammers (which could be made to apply to any weapon now).

I'm also not sure what I think of the whole "random chance to activate" when you disenchant since, honestly, once you get to a high enough level, the economy allows you to purchase low level magic items for a relative pittance and then disenchant them until you get a socketing gemstone with the properties that you want. Getting more sockets with each tier just breaks it even more.

Primal spirits

Isn't this basically what a Warden does with their dailies except you're limiting their power selection on top of it (since they only get access to a small suite)? I admit that it's a cool idea (since I think that Wardens are very cool too), but it just seems like it's adding Warden dailies to everyone else existing skill set. I like the idea, but I'm not sure I see the purpose especially since it draws away the uniqueness of Wardens. The size of the spirits when they manifest is also potentially problematic, since they're all huge or gargantuan.

It also seems like it would work just as well with divine and primordial manifestations, too, so it could work for a bunch of different campaigns. It's extremely epic and I can really get behind the visual, but, from a design standpoint, I just can't really see the point.

[UrielAwakened]

Design-wise, they're more for the story than anything. The players are world-traveling, attempting to find and gather the primal spirits to do battle with a being that's taken control of Yggdrasil and as a result has elevated himself above god-level. The only way to match his power is to take some of that primal power away from him.

Gameplay-wise, they're to help PCs tackle situations that they may otherwise be ill-equipped to handle. I've upped damage numbers significantly and I play fast-and-loose with the encounter building rules these days, so more often than not one of these makes an appearance either to help stave off a particularly troubling foe or else to handle an otherwise-unmanageable situation.

One time Tide Bringer was summoned to help put out a massive fire that threatened to engulf thousands of people, for instance.

As for gems, the biggest reason was Iron Armbands of Power. I hate that item so much. I started with the thought process of, "How do I make it so anyone who wants Iron Armbands of Power can get it, but also we can use other arm slots?" I also had a player who wanted to deal lightning damage with his attacks, and I gave out the fortune stones that let players reroll attacks of certain damage types. I put all of that together, and gems happened. If PCs want to use their gold to try to farm gems, I'm cool with it. If they don't, that's fine too. But either way, now we can still hand out cool weapons and arm slots and everyone has a way to use their fortune stone rerolls.

[Meta]

That's crazy powerful, considering you can stack it on top of another magic item (especially since, as written, it also allows you to equip weapon-group specific bonuses onto other weapons; for example, you could put a crusader's weapon gem onto a non-hammer/mace or an overreaching gem onto a non-polearm). It's especially egregious considering that the most powerful aspects of weapons tend to be the very ones that these "weak" gems are supposed to bring along. Frost weapons aren't amazingly powerful because they provide +1d6 cold damage per plus on a crit or provide an extra d8 cold damage per tier and slowed until EoNT once per day; they're amazingly powerful because they allow you to turn all of your damage into cold damage and gain access to the insanity that is frostcheese. The same is true of Avalanche hammers (which could be made to apply to any weapon now).

I'm also not sure what I think of the whole "random chance to activate" when you disenchant since, honestly, once you get to a high enough level, the economy allows you to purchase low level magic items for a relative pittance and then disenchant them until you get a socketing gemstone with the properties that you want. Getting more sockets with each tier just breaks it even more.

Gold is a bigger road block than I think you're giving it credit for. Sure at 25+ it would be easier to buy a ton of low levels but there are also a lot of great luxury level ~30 items we could be buying instead and getting full effect from. Or paying for rituals.

At level 12, I don't think we've disenchanted anything in to a gem and since the effect is scaled down, I doubt it would be an issue anyways. Uriel's unique items are more dangerous...

We play with the flaming weapon errata for all damage type weapons. Can only change a power's types if it's untyped to start.

[UrielAwakened]

My custom items are a thing of beauty.

And in 18 levels nobody is going to be saying "No thank you" to a +7 weapon.

To give you some power-level perspective, these were the capstone weapons of my last 4e campaign:

Spoiler: The Grandfather

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The Grandfather
Weapon: Heavy Blade
Critical: +7d6 radiant damage
Property: When this weapon is wielded in two hands, you can also treat it as a heavy shield.
Property: You gain 30 maximum hit points and 3 healing surges.
Property: When you're not bloodied, you deal +7 damage with this weapon.
Power (Encounter): Free action. All of your defenses are equal to your highest defense until the end of your next turn.
Power (Daily): Free action. Until the end of the encounter, all of your defenses are equal to your highest defense, and you gain resist 10 to all damage.

Spoiler: Wizardspike

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Wizardspike
Weapon: Dagger
Critical: +7d6 acid, cold, fire, lightning, and poison damage
Property: Choose one arcane at-will power that you know. You can use that power as a minor action once per round.
Property: Gain 15 resistance to acid, cold, fire, lightning, and poison damage. If you already have resistances to any of these damage types, increase your resistance by 15 instead.
Power (Encounter): Free action. Regain one arcane encounter power that you have used.
Power (Daily): Free action. Regain one arcane daily power that you have already used. You gain a +4 bonus to hit when you use that power.

Spoiler: Messerschmidt's Reaver

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Messerschmidt's Reaver
Weapon: Axe
Critical: +7d12 fire damage
Property: Whenever you roll maximum damage with this weapon, roll that die again and add that total to the damage dealt.
Property: Your weapon gains brutal 2 and high crit.
Property: You gain a +4 bonus to opportunity attacks and combat challenge attacks made with this weapon.
Power (Encounter): Free action. Use this power when you hit with an attack with this weapon. Deal +3d12 damage with the attack.
Power (Daily): Free action. Until the encounter ends, you deal +2d12 damage with every attack made with this weapon.

Spoiler: Widowmaker

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Widowmaker
Weapon: Rifle
Critical: +7d6 force damage
Property: You can crit with this weapon on a roll of 18-20.
Property: This weapon never jams or needs reloaded.
Power (Encounter): Minor action. Make an at-will power attack with this weapon.
Power (Daily): Free action. Until the encounter ends, you can use your hunter's quarry damage any time you deal damage to a creature that you have previously chosen as your quarry.

Spoiler: Annihilus

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Annihilus
Implement: Orb
Critical: +7d6 psychic damage
Property: Any arcane at-will power used with this implement deals +7 damage.
Property: Any arcane power used through this implement deals half-damage on a miss.
Power (Encounter): Free action. When an enemy within your line of sight would save against an effect, you can force them to reroll it with a -5 penalty.
Power (Daily): Free action. Until the end of the encounter, once per round when you are hit by an attack you can make a saving throw. On a success, you only take half damage.

I really liked Diablo II.

[ThePurple]

As for gems, the biggest reason was Iron Armbands of Power. I hate that item so much. I started with the thought process of, "How do I make it so anyone who wants Iron Armbands of Power can get it, but also we can use other arm slots?"

My solution has always been "all arm slots have IAoP functionality as a function of their level". Arm slots of level 1-5 give +1 damage; 6-10 give +2 damage; etc.

[UrielAwakened]

Ye that's another good way. I've handed out a few custom armbands that have +2 damage and are situationally higher as well, and I'll probably hand a few more out before were done.

[ThePurple]

The IAoP problem was always solved rather simply to me. My problem, more often, has been finding a solution to the "Boots of the Fencing Master" problem: they're only level 7 but they're so insanely good (passive that gives a bonus to AC and Ref upon shifting and an encounter minor action that lets you shift 2) that they're all that 95% of my players ever want to wear on their feet (the only players that *don't* want BotFM choose a different set of boots because of a specific gimmick, like teleport-locks trying to get Planestrider Boots).

[UrielAwakened]

At the very least I'd think most of them would want Boots of Teleportation in epic tier.

If not maybe just embrace it. I've been handing out custom belts with a bonus to Fort and another effect, custom boots with a bonus to Reflex and another effect, etc...

The stat bonuses are hard to beat so just embrace it and include it on most things that need the help to be competitive.

[ThePurple]

At the very least I'd think most of them would want Boots of Teleportation in epic tier.

None of my current campaigns have gotten to epic tier thus far and, even then, the extremely high item level of the boots (combined with the numerous benefits that are attached to shifting) means that most of my players just don't see them as being worth it.

[MoutonRustique]

My bad.

No worries.

Obviously, these are all bonkers when taken in the context of a "white room" 4e. But I have to say that the primal spirits thing is particularly cool!

Thanks for this - very nice!

[Yakk]

Purple, at-will teleportation and a cloak of translocation gives a +2 AC/Ref when you teleport matches those boots.

Teleport breaks entire monster and plot mechanics. (The fun restriction is that you need line-of-sight to your target square, so you cannot teleport around a corner by default)

[UrielAwakened]

My players actually solved that and used it to great effect a few sessions back.

I gave them scryballs (basically skype video chat in crystal ball form) that they use to keep in touch with distant NPCs and communicate with each other.

They figured out that they could use the scry ball to force a teleport through walls if one PC was looking around the corner and the other was close enough to the wall.

They used it to trap an invincible soldier in a room with an unkillable troll monstrosity.

It was a good day.

[ThePurple]

Teleport breaks entire monster and plot mechanics. (The fun restriction is that you need line-of-sight to your target square, so you cannot teleport around a corner by default)

Yeah, but, as stated before, it's more a question of none of my campaigns actually having gotten that high (we've done one-shots but every time we go epic, my players always seem to get bogged down in option paralysis and it takes 3 sessions to run a single decent encounter) rather than because there aren't obscene combos involved in it.

[masteraleph]

Teleportation is also why all windows in Eladrin palaces have curtains. I also feel like there must be a big market for one way mirrors as windows in the Feywild.

[UrielAwakened]

Yeah, but, as stated before, it's more a question of none of my campaigns actually having gotten that high (we've done one-shots but every time we go epic, my players always seem to get bogged down in option paralysis and it takes 3 sessions to run a single decent encounter) rather than because there aren't obscene combos involved in it.

A big part of making epic work is having had already played the characters for 20 levels. Without that ingrained knowledge of your options, combat will take forever.

[Yakk]

Eladrin palaces aren't curtained; instead, the glass is a vertical scrying pool made out of tears.

What you see in the window isn't what is there, but what was there in ages past or to come.

Attempting to teleport through the veil of tears is unwise. Because sometimes, it works.

[UrielAwakened]

Using it. Totes.

[ThePurple]

A big part of making epic work is having had already played the characters for 20 levels. Without that ingrained knowledge of your options, combat will take forever.

Well, in the handful of games that I've been a player for rather than run, a few of them were epic and I had no problem playing a level 30 character with the full suite of everything without 20+ levels of pre-existing experience.

Imo, it's probably more about finding the right amount of options for the individual player to sift through. I've known some players that either can't or don't want to do anything more involved than using their basic attack every round (and find the martial Essentials classes to be the perfect fit for them because of this) while there's a tiny handful that fully enjoy the insanity that is deep end epic tier with a bajillion conditionals, triggered events, and whatnot to track (people like me, which is why I get bored when I'm only playing 1 character rather than playing everyone that the group is up against).