Reading Heir to the Empire

[Sapphire Guard]

I'm not expecting Thrawn to suddenly die of a heart attack in chapter 2 (that would be in interesting way to earn his reputation, admittedly), but I wasn't even expecting C'Baoth to survive the last book, I thought he looked like either a mini boss battle for our heroes before the big encounter or someone for Thrawn to kill to prove his credentials. I suppose we'll see.

CH2:
Luke is grounded in the shipyards as his X Wing is still under repair. It was pretty nice of the alliance to just hand over a military fighter to him when he retired, actually, but in the wake of this attack there are a lot of ships to repair, and he's not at the top of the list. He could take Wedge's, but that would get him (Wedge) up in front of a court martial, because even the alliance has some standards and Fey'lya will be glad of the chance to discredit Wedge, most likely. Besides, Leia's a better diplomat and he has no official standing in the alliance anyway.

'General' Calrissian is still in the sick bay, which is interesting. How did he keep the title while running a mining complex? So Luke goes to visit while he's still trying to get the X Wing fixed.

They chat for a bit about the price of metal on the stock market and how to get the mole miners back. Mid conversation, Lando freezes, recognising a smell off Luke. Niles Ferrier... have I heard that name before? Not in these books, but it sounds weirdly familiar somehow. Anyway, he's a skilled spaceship thief, probably picking over the remnants of the battle to boost a gunship. One of Luke's Jedi abilities is to rewind his memory. That must come in handy.

They enter the mysteriously empty trading corridor. They can't call security because he'll be listening in, so they go in themselves. Luke senses the gang, and they open fire on him. He blocks, lightsabre style, and notes a mystery shadow, which he puts between himself and the blasterfire. Niles does not subscribe to the Vader style of minion disposal and stops shooting.

Lando starts talking and offers a deal. The Empire has put up a bounty on warships, and Ferrier is trying to supply it. But they don't want to face a Jedi, so Lando suggests a different target if they get out of the shipyards. They eventually take the offer, handing over their slicer access code.

Lando and Luke wonder why they're raiding for warships. Given the recent failed raid, it doesn't seem all that surprising that the Empire is still raiding for ships, but they decide to let Intelligence worry about it. With the slicer codes, they can move Luke's X Wing up the priority list, which is nice, although Luke does have some misgivings. Hmm, I never really thought 'obey all local laws and regulations' was part of the Jedi code.

Not really much to comment on here, other than that I love how for once the diplomatic route actually pays off before 'slaughter everyone' becomes the only option.

[Velaryon]

They chat for a bit about the price of metal on the stock market and how to get the mole miners back. Mid conversation, Lando freezes, recognising a smell off Luke. Niles Ferrier... have I heard that name before? Not in these books, but it sounds weirdly familiar somehow. Anyway, he's a skilled spaceship thief, probably picking over the remnants of the battle to boost a gunship. One of Luke's Jedi abilities is to rewind his memory. That must come in handy.

By any chance, have you played a strategy game called Star Wars: Rebellion? Niles Ferrier appears in that game, apparently. Other than that, his only appearances have been in this trilogy (not counting stuff like RPG sourcebooks, official guides or encyclopedias, etc.)

[Gnoman]

CH2:
Luke is grounded in the shipyards as his X Wing is still under repair. It was pretty nice of the alliance to just hand over a military fighter to him when he retired, actually, but in the wake of this attack there are a lot of ships to repair, and he's not at the top of the list. He could take Wedge's, but that would get him (Wedge) up in front of a court martial, because even the alliance has some standards and Fey'lya will be glad of the chance to discredit Wedge, most likely. Besides, Leia's a better diplomat and he has no official standing in the alliance anyway.

IIRC, the X-Wing Luke flies around in is not property of the Rebel Alliance/New Republic. It is his, which he was given as a reward for rescuing Leia all the way back in A New Hope. There are other cases in the EU that establish starfighters as something you can just own, like a luxury car.

[jayem]

'General' Calrissian is still in the sick bay, which is interesting. How did he keep the title while running a mining complex? So Luke goes to visit while he's still trying to get the X Wing fixed.

I guess (if it isn't explained somewhere). He's a Hero of a rebellion. It would bring a lot of fuss to publicly explain 'oh Lando deserted us'. They were always happy to have him back.

Alternatively it could be like Mr Colonel Saunders.

[Daimbert]

IIRC, the X-Wing Luke flies around in is not property of the Rebel Alliance/New Republic. It is his, which he was given as a reward for rescuing Leia all the way back in A New Hope. There are other cases in the EU that establish starfighters as something you can just own, like a luxury car.

As they aren't really spoilers for the series, Corran Horn has his own personal X-Wing that he signed out and ran away with when he was leaving CorSec, and Face Loran bought fighters as a way to get accepted into the Alliance. Both are from the X-Wing series.

'General' Calrissian is still in the sick bay, which is interesting. How did he keep the title while running a mining complex?

He likely just never officially resigned his commission, especially considering that he certainly would have wanted to keep using the title when it might help him out. He probably just ended up going on "reserve" status, which left him claim to the title without actually having to do anything military.

[Sapphire Guard]

By any chance, have you played a strategy game called Star Wars: Rebellion? Niles Ferrier appears in that game, apparently. Other than that, his only appearances have been in this trilogy (not counting stuff like RPG sourcebooks, official guides or encyclopedias, etc.)

No. I must be mixing him up with someone.

CH3: Han lands at Coruscant in the Falcon. Leia is there to meet him. Ackbar's under house arrest, but Fey'lya is holding off on an outright coup. Han is immediately directed to the Council meeting to brief them on the Sluis Van shipyards attack.

The meeting is unusually set up as a lecture hall, probably as a power play to keep Ackbar from having a conspicuous empty chair.

Han gives his report, with a couple of interruptions from Fey'lya. He thinks he's going to get in trouble for wrecking the ships, but Fey'lya is going after Akbar instead. As expected, he's trying to pin on him the order of using warships for cargo movement... which is legitimate, but Han mentions that there's a tap on their communications. Fey'lya tries to pin this on Ackbar too.

Wait a second. Isn't Fey'lya responsible for intelligence? So isn't finding leaks kind of his job? Han agrees, but since it's not the topic of the meeting, it's set aside.

Then Han brings up that they're facing a Grand Admiral, which they all react to with surprise. Does it really matter what he calls himself?

After the interrogation, they go visit Ackbar. They talk a bit more about the IGAs, who were apparently twelve of the Emperor's best tacticians. Then they move on to the Imperial's other new trick, the cloaking shield. It's not quite the deal breaker it looks like, as those inside a shield can't sense out either...unless, perchance, a Dark Jedi is involved?

Prison time is up, and they leave. Ackbar is slightly cold to Han, because he resigned his commission, it's a cultural thing because the Mon Calimari don't like war in the first place, but when they do it, they do it right.

They also talk a bit about Kashyyyk, but can't talk about details in the palace.

Alright, so we get introduced to the political trouble in the Rebel Alliance. It's better than Bloodlines, but still doesn't quite ring true for me, it's just a little too simple to sound like real politics, and it feels like Han should be a little more difficult to be led by the nose, he has to have been at a few of these meetings by now, right? I feel like actual politicians are a bit more subtle than this.

There's a lot of significance attached to the Imperial Grand Admiral title, which also seems odd, as it's established that they know almost nothing about them. How can they be so afraid when they don't know anything about their abilities? Even if it's a position reserved for tactical genius, you still need to know where they got that reputation in order to have reactions like this.

I mean, Field Marshall is a rank sometimes reserved for an officer that has been victorious in combat. But hearing the rank itself doesn't tell you whether you're facing Field Marshall Haig or Field Marshall Mackenson unless you know their war records. You need more information to know whether to worry or not.

[GrayDeath]

The political system and the reason for its ... seemingly simplistic idiocy will be explained, both within this trilogy and some other EU books.

As for Han: he resigned, iirc shortly after they actually managed the transition from Rebellion to Republic, and he hates politics, so...nope, not much luck there.

However Fey`lya is also a pet peeve of mine.


Regarding the Grand Admirals: thats a point I wondered about as well. If something is as fond of propaganda as the Empire is, I can understand omitting Thrawn (not fitting the Humans are the Best!!!1111! Theme), you prudly show off your best, but nothing or almost nothing about the others has always struck me as....strange.

[Keltest]

I think the fact that they don't know anything about the GA position is exactly why its so concerning. They have just enough of a reputation to know what they should be capable of, but not enough experience with them to know what they actually are capable of. They cant plan effectively around it due to lack of information.

[Dragonus45]

My understanding is that its not a standard rank in the Empire. Its a mark of prestige and capability bestowed to only those few in the galaxy able to stand out.

[Cikomyr]

My understanding is that its not a standard rank in the Empire. Its a mark of prestige and capability bestowed to only those few in the galaxy able to stand out.

Probably on par with Grand Moffs. There are only a handful of them, and each of them are specials.

[russdm]

You forgetting that at this point in time, all of the known Grand Admirals are supposed to be dead, so it's more of reaction to having missed one. Also, there 12 which means Thrawn makes number 13.

Also given how the Emperor ruled, the Grand Admirals can considered either the most ruthless or cunning or both. You don't get promoted to ranks like Moff, Grand Moff, Grand Admiral, Grand General by being soft. Nearly all of them should be essentially guilty of various war crimes or crimes against humanity.

[GrayDeath]

Probably on par with Grand Moffs. There are only a handful of them, and each of them are specials.

nah, Grand Moffs were simply the best Intrigants, or in Tarkins sense fit the EMpires intended Image exceptionally well.

Grand Admirals on the other hand had to be capable (or at the very least had to have achieved impressive things, luck can always help as well^^).

You forgetting that at this point in time, all of the known Grand Admirals are supposed to be dead, so it's more of reaction to having missed one. Also, there 12 which means Thrawn makes number 13.

Also given how the Emperor ruled, the Grand Admirals can considered either the most ruthless or cunning or both. You don't get promoted to ranks like Moff, Grand Moff, Grand Admiral, Grand General by being soft. Nearly all of them should be essentially guilty of various war crimes or crimes for humanity.

Fixed that for you. :P

Jokes aside: War crimes is a problematic aspect in Star Wars, given that the only real War in recent history was the rebellion that ended the empire, where most crimes were more along the lines of standard Empirial Procedure (excluding Superweapons and such) than particular actions in actual battles (or their aftermath).

Now applying OUR universes Geneva Conventions or similar measurmeents, you are of course entirely correct.

[Cikomyr]

nah, Grand Moffs were simply the best Intrigants, or in Tarkins sense fit the EMpires intended Image exceptionally well.

Grand Admirals on the other hand had to be capable (or at the very least had to have achieved impressive things, luck can always help as well^^).

Politically wise, wouldnt the "best intriguant" would be the most capable political leaders of the Empire?

[The Glyphstone]

Politically wise, wouldnt the "best intriguant" would be the most capable political leaders of the Empire?

Internal politics, maybe. But being the best at sucking up to your superiors while undermining/sabotaging your rivals is an entirely different skill set than actually being able to lead anyone or accomplish anything. They can exist in parallel, but aren't guaranteed to do so.

[Sapphire Guard]

The way they talk about the GA's it's clear they have an established reputation 'Let's see how you would do against a Grand Admiral'. You can't have a reputation like that unless you know something about what they've previously done.

I mean, 'Let's see how you'd do against a Jedi Master' That only works if you have some idea what Jedi are or what they've done/can do.

CH4:

Luke looks up Jorus in the records, annoyed at how the Empire changed the timeline. He hopes the New Republic doesn't do the same (I'm pretty sure it does. Poor Luke.)

Jorus' records indicate he was personally assigned to Palpatine. Disappeared on Outbound Flight, which seems to have been basically the Star Trek Enterprise, missionwise.

Winter shows up, and vaguely remembers C'Baoth. She has perfect memory, which means Alderaan and the pain of losing it never fades. Yowch. Also means she knows a bit about our Jedi.

Luke's guard is upped a bit by the idea that the original C'Baoth would be over 100 by now, even though he's human. Winter is of the belief that C'Baoth was not humble enough to go into exile Yoda style. Luke agrees.

Luke goes to visit Leia, and I really enjoy whenever 3PO gets to actually be a protocol droid, he clearly loves his primary purpose so much.

Han and Leia are inside, and they're still talking about Grand Admirals, with Han suspecting Fey'lya of potentially being an Imperial agent. It's plausible, and Thrawn earlier implied he had a hand in the Republic's political trouble, but they can't accuse Fey'lya until they clear Ackbar, or else it just looks like partisan politics. They look into his record a bit, and Han searches for somewhere that the Bothans fought hard for no apparent reason. Clever.

Chewbacca then lets out the Noghri deal, which nobody is very happy about. Luke leaves, and Han and Leia have a heart to heart re the wisdom of diplomatically treating with assassins. He lets her go, in the Falcon as it's better armed. Makes sense, although keeping their distinctive ships seems like it could invite trouble from the Imperials.

Good chapter, the politics here rings a lot more true than it did in the Council Room earlier. Otherwise, it's mostly setup and Han/Leia heart to heart. Not that much to comment on, though.

[GrayDeath]

Internal politics, maybe. But being the best at sucking up to your superiors while undermining/sabotaging your rivals is an entirely different skill set than actually being able to lead anyone or accomplish anything. They can exist in parallel, but aren't guaranteed to do so.

Could not have said it better myself.

Honestly, the "What if the Empire had had only truly competent, unified Moffs" Scenario is one of my favourites.


@ Chapter: one of the best preparing chapters, and due to some very interesting foreshadowing/THinking one of my favourites in this book.

[Drascin]

Could not have said it better myself.

Honestly, the "What if the Empire had had only truly competent, unified Moffs" Scenario is one of my favourites.

Then it would not have been the Galactic Empire. By the time you transform the Galactic Empire enough that it wouldn't inevitably end a hotbed of cronyism, then you have something whose only similarity to the Galactic Empire is the Star Destroyers. It's basically inherent in the structure that defines the Empire.

[Cikomyr]

Could not have said it better myself.

Honestly, the "What if the Empire had had only truly competent, unified Moffs" Scenario is one of my favourites.

Instead, it got scheming Moffs and Grand Moffs pit against one another. The most competent and efficient would rise to the top, and the incompetent would be inevitably purged.

Hence why i suspect we can consider GMoffs to be political forces to be massively reckoned.

[GrayDeath]

As written above: given the ability to excel at backstabbing/internal strife, yes.

Regarding other competences, not so much.

Look at it as richer, planetspanning Corrupt Oligarchs/similar froum our world. Great at putting money into their own pockets, but not the ones you want to govern your empire.


@ Drascin: not really. The structure would be the same, it would just WORK.
Now I am not implying they should be good people, mind! Just more than "the best backstabbers around".

[Drascin]

@ Drascin: not really. The structure would be the same, it would just WORK.
Now I am not implying they should be good people, mind! Just more than "the best backstabbers around".

Yes really. Kind of a known problem of centralized autocratic power structures. By their very nature they fall into cronyism and favor currying and the like. You basically have to remove the entire "Autocratic Empire where a single Emperor decides on appointments" system, including Palpatine at the top, and make it into something Not The Galactic Empire, in order for it to not be eventually mostly populated by the jagoffs that were best at promoting themselves.

[The Glyphstone]

Yes really. Kind of a known problem of centralized autocratic power structures. By their very nature they fall into cronyism and favor currying and the like. You basically have to remove the entire "Autocratic Empire where a single Emperor decides on appointments" system, including Palpatine at the top, and make it into something Not The Galactic Empire, in order for it to not be eventually mostly populated by the jagoffs that were best at promoting themselves.

What if all you had to change was Palpatine himself, making him reward genuine military merit instead of just brown-nosing and professing loyalty? You'd still end up with rank-climbers, but they would have to actually be good at their jobs to impress him. Maybe it'd introduce a element of glory-hounding and recklessness instead of cautiousness, the way the canon element of Vader murderizing anyone who sticks their neck out and fails does. But an autocratic military meritocracy could, in theory, work.

Which I suddenly realize is basically making Thrawn the norm instead of the exception, but that keeps it on-topic to some degree.

[tiornys]

I think you can leave the structure alone if you change Palpatine's character enough. The Force gives him advantages when it comes to identifying people who are just good at self-promotion and self-interest, so it's reasonable to think that he could suppress those types instead of elevating them if he wanted.

edit: so much ninja

[Kish]

I agree with Drascin, with the note that changing Palpatine is changing the Empire. The Empire in the movies is a card-carrying villainous organization, as much as COBRA, HYDRA, or Voltron's enemies, ruled by a cackling tyrant whose direct subordinates know full well that it's in their contract to break their word gratuitously no matter what it costs them (Tarkin's destruction of Alderaan, Vader's betrayal of Lando). To say "what if this was actually a reasonable and functional organization?" is to entirely change the genre.

Which I understand the EU ultimately did, and you can see signs of it starting in this trilogy, but suggestions that it's not fair to treat the previous Empire as gratuitously and incompetently evil remain fundamentally misguided.

[Sapphire Guard]

I don't remember the Moffs having an enormous reputation for political skill. Tarkin was the best known, and his rep is more 'ruthlessness, inflexibility and brute force' than 'skilled political manoevring'. I can't think of any others that were known for their skill, Ghadi gets some focus in Thrawn but isn't that impressive.

The reaction in universe to Tarkin showing up is less 'Oh no, he's a brilliant schemer' and more 'Oh no, he might level this city for no reason'.

Palpatine employs plenty of people for their skills, he doesn't just reward schemers. He just cares more about PR than ethics, so a few atrocities aren't a concern as long as they cover their tracks.

CH5: Mara is complaining to Karrde about the privacy of his new hideout. Since few areas of the planet are habitable, they have neighbours, which is likely to result in spies. Karrde shrugs it off, unless another hunch hits Mara. It hasn't so far, but that doesn't mean much.

She asks him about his reaction to capital ships talking to Thrawn in the last book. He shrugs and brings up Katana fleet. The great thing about Star Wars stories is that conservation of detail doesn't apply, it's hard to tell when something is plot relevant, a throwaway reference, or a pivotal detail of some tie in comic ten years earlier you've never heard of.

Katana fleet, as it turned out, was a fleet of two hundred dreadnoughts that hyperspaced to nowhere some years back, resulting in a dampening of interest in centralised systems. A virus killed the crew and the automated systems decided to hyperspace into empty space. Karrde happened to stumble across them by pure chance fifteen years ago, in fairly good shape. His crew mistakes them for active ships and jumps out too quickly, killing half the crew. So Karrde has the location of two hundred warships.

I had assumed he was a former imperial governor or something that knew where some mothballed fleet was stored, but it appears he's just a lucky pirate. Mara suggests selling to the Empire, Karrde is not enthused. I think I'm on Karrde's side of the fence here, Thrawn ain't someone that's going to be bought off, he'll just take the ships and then keep hunting them down. Mara's less certain of this.

He sends her on an errand, where she immediately picks up a shadow. Her first attempted ambush fails, but he's clearly leading her somewhere out of the way to have a more lengthy discussion. She finds his second ambush point, or thinks she does, but it turns out it's a decoy.

She's held up by Mr. Bounty Hunter, who keeps her talking long enough to reluctantly use her Force abilities to distract him long enough to beat him on the draw.

She returns to Karrde with the bounty hunter's datapad. Karrde continues to be very calm under pressure. She talks about the Dreadnaughts , but he's not interested. They leave the Planet ASAP, and Mara's dreams start.

I feel slightly bad for Mr. Bounty Hunter- he did so well, just didn't account for force users. Karrde's bounty is 20,000. Not bad, when Luke's in the last book was 30. They have to up sticks and leave, and may eventually run out of backup bases. Mara seems to think that the Dreadnoughts will buy Thrawn off. I am less convinced.

CH6: Back on the Chimaera's bridge, Thrawn sees through an Alliance ambush, then has another relaxing 'shoot down Pellaeon's opinion' session. It turns out they are responsible for Ackbar's banking issues, and are relying on Fey' lya to destabilise things, although whether as a dupe or agent is still unclear.

They know our three heroes have left Coruscant, but for once Thrawn mistakes their destination, assuming they'll investigate the bank rather than Fey'lya directly. The Death's Head 'one of their best Imperial Star Destroyers' is being pulled off battle duty to go to the bank. One thing Thrawn is prone to is treating ISDs like taxis, once again, that seems like a duty better suited to smaller ships.

Thrawn reveals he has a secret source of intelligence in the alliance, 'Delta Source' that is to be treated as absolutely reliable and goes directly through him. Currently, Winter seems like the most likely candidate, considering that was who Luke was talking to about his trip, although we may learn more later.

The conversation moves to C'Baoth, who has recently disobeyed an order. Pellaeon is irked by this and is promptly mocked. Thrawn believes he can control -and, if necessary, eliminate- C'Baoth because he doesn't have true focus. We shall see.

Meanwhile, Thrawn is paying a visit to Noghriland to motivate them into one last shot at Leia. He seems to angling for some kind of collective punishment. Seems a bit unnecessary. Also means he may run into Leia. Once the protective screen is gone, the ambush convoy is allowed to leave to spread the word.

C'Baoth, in his castle, senses someone approaching. It is difficult to focus, but he can manage it. He knows the Imperials secretly look down at him, and isn't entirely happy, but feels secure. Compared to control of the fleet, bending Luke to his will is going to be a greater challenge.

So, setup for conflict between our Jedi Master and our Grand Admiral. My money's on Thrawn, although maybe not unscathed. Speaking of Thrawn, he continues to be the biggest problem of these books, by virtue of every scene requiring him to one-up somebody. Feels slightly ironic to be saying that when this chapter has what I believe is his first small miscalculation, but it still stands. His chapters are dense, plot relevant, and interesting, but grating as well.

[GrayDeath]

What if all you had to change was Palpatine himself, making him reward genuine military merit instead of just brown-nosing and professing loyalty? You'd still end up with rank-climbers, but they would have to actually be good at their jobs to impress him. Maybe it'd introduce a element of glory-hounding and recklessness instead of cautiousness, the way the canon element of Vader murderizing anyone who sticks their neck out and fails does. But an autocratic military meritocracy could, in theory, work.

Which I suddenly realize is basically making Thrawn the norm instead of the exception, but that keeps it on-topic to some degree.

I think you can leave the structure alone if you change Palpatine's character enough. The Force gives him advantages when it comes to identifying people who are just good at self-promotion and self-interest, so it's reasonable to think that he could suppress those types instead of elevating them if he wanted.

edit: so much ninja

Indeed, this.

[Hunter Noventa]

Ah yes, Delta Source. I feel a good job was done with that, and I'll say no more.

[Peelee]

Delta Source was pretty awesome, yeah.

[Rakaydos]

Now that the Katana fleet is revealed... anyone think it might have been where George Lucas got the idea for the Sepratist Droid armies?

I could totally see newcanon adding a lost sepratist battlefleet if they wanted to revisit this story arc...

[Velaryon]

Now that the Katana fleet is revealed... anyone think it might have been where George Lucas got the idea for the Sepratist Droid armies?

I could totally see newcanon adding a lost sepratist battlefleet if they wanted to revisit this story arc...

It's not outside the realm of possibility, but I would be surprised if it happens. Based on the newcanon films we've had so far, it seems like Disney's plan is to embrace the prequels at the bare minimum level possible.

I did use this hook in a SWRPG campaign once upon a time though, combined with "Dooku's secret apprentice he was training in preparation to overthrow Palpatine," though.

[Mando Knight]

Based on the newcanon films we've had so far, it seems like Disney's plan is to embrace the prequels at the bare minimum level possible.

Disney's plan is actually "let Lucasfilm's Story Group handle it, they haven't needed us to step in so far" and the Story Group is mostly made of people who spent most of the last 18 years doing prequel stuff, and there's a whole new(ish) era to (re)tell stories about. They're weaving in references where it makes sense (and Rebels features some characters original to The Clone Wars as supporting cast), but their main focus at the moment is in the new sequel trilogy because those are the major cinematic productions at the moment, much as the prequels were in their time.