Reading Heir to the Empire

[Sapphire Guard]

I have read newcanon Thrawn (between Heir and Dark Force). My biggest impressions were that they doubled down on everything I've been complaining about.

Outbound Flight is actually in my local library, so might try that next. I might try Thrawn duology later, but considering how long it took me to find Last Command, that's unlikely to be soon. I'll let you know how it goes.

Anyway, thanks again, folks, this was fun and y'all were polite in our many disagreements.

Again, it doesn't matter. Ysalamiri make him a powerless old man. Meet Bob. Bob is an officer with an ysalamiri pack. Bob walks up to C'Baoth. It now sucks to be C'Baoth, because blasters work perfectly fine in ysalamiri fields, and he'll do whatever they tell him to so long as Bob stays near him, because how's he going to say no? As you say, this isn't hard to parse.

Problem is, he can sense ysalamir coming before coming under the effects, even as 'holes' in his force senses. Luke could do it with Mt Tantiss before he entered. So you can't sneak a ysalamir up on him easily, except possibly in a fast moving spaceship nearing Mt Tantiss before he can react.

[Peelee]

Problem is, he can sense ysalamir coming before coming under the effects, even as 'holes' in his force senses. Luke could do it with Mt Tantiss before he entered. So you can't sneak a ysalamir up on him easily, except possibly in a fast moving spaceship nearing Mt Tantiss before he can react.

There's not a whole lot he can do to react, though. And it doesn't even need to be stealthy, either. He's usually in a spaceship, which means limited roamjng area. Worst-case scenario, have a shuttle or small cruisier loaded up with the lizards on Myrkr, then jump it to the ship C'Baoth is on. More realistically, Thrawn & Co. could go meet him to discuss things (whatever would get C'Baoth to agree to a meeting. Subservience to him, for instance), and just suddenly close the gap at some point. The idea was that Thrawn wanted C'Baoth dead before he sent the guy to Wayland, so this is certainly feasible.

[Drascin]

There's not a whole lot he can do to react, though. And it doesn't even need to be stealthy, either. He's usually in a spaceship, which means limited roamjng area. Worst-case scenario, have a shuttle or small cruisier loaded up with the lizards on Myrkr, then jump it to the ship C'Baoth is on. More realistically, Thrawn & Co. could go meet him to discuss things (whatever would get C'Baoth to agree to a meeting. Subservience to him, for instance), and just suddenly close the gap at some point. The idea was that Thrawn wanted C'Baoth dead before he sent the guy to Wayland, so this is certainly feasible.

I mean, if he senses you coming with an ysalamir field, he can absolutely just murder you by throwing a piece of a control panel through your skull before you can walk the ysalamir field to him. It's the classic antimagic problem - when magic uses magical means to power nonmagical methods, antimagic shell becomes a rather risky proposition.

[Daimbert]

I have read newcanon Thrawn (between Heir and Dark Force). My biggest impressions were that they doubled down on everything I've been complaining about.

Outbound Flight is actually in my local library, so might try that next. I might try Thrawn duology later, but considering how long it took me to find Last Command, that's unlikely to be soon. I'll let you know how it goes.

I tend to disagree with you -- and with others in general -- on how problematic Thrawn's deductions tend to be, including in "Thrawn", where my biggest issue was Arihnda, both in terms of her arc and in terms of how much time she took up in the book. "Outbound Flight" will, I think, be a better book for you than at least "Thrawn", certainly, because there's a lot more going on and so more characters to watch if you're finding Thrawn himself irritating.

[Peelee]

I mean, if he senses you coming with an ysalamir field, he can absolutely just murder you by throwing a piece of a control panel through your skull before you can walk the ysalamir field to him. It's the classic antimagic problem - when magic uses magical means to power nonmagical methods, antimagic shell becomes a rather risky proposition.

True enough. Which if why I threw in two possible ways ain't that. Matt be more, dunno.

[GrayDeath]

Interestingly I, as an avid Thrawn Fan, didnt like most of what new Canon did with him (read Thrawn,w asnt impressed, loathed how badly he was executed in rebels).

Saying that, Outbound Flight was a mediocre book. It tried to hard to connect Legends with New Canon (CLone Wars), and just about the only thing I REALLY liked about it was CBaoth. ^^

[Fyraltari]

Interestingly I, as an avid Thrawn Fan, didnt like most of what new Canon did with him (read Thrawn,w asnt impressed, loathed how badly he was executed in rebels).

Saying that, Outbound Flight was a mediocre book. It tried to hard to connect Legends with New Canon (CLone Wars), and just about the only thing I REALLY liked about it was CBaoth. ^^

Clone Wars was never a part of new-canon. The Clone Wars was part of Legends even before Disney bought the franchise.

[Peelee]

Clone Wars was never a part of new-canon. The Clone Wars was part of Legends even before Disney bought the franchise.

For that matter, Outbound Flight couldn't have tried to connect Legends with Canon, since the new canon didn't exist when it was written.

[hamishspence]

I think they meant that Outbound Flight tried to connect the Legends outline of events in Hand of Thrawn, to the prequel movies - by including Anakin & Obi-Wan, by making Palpatine's forces include a couple of Trade Federation Battleships, and so on.

So - it's making the period "more in line with Movie Canon".

[GrayDeath]

I think they meant that Outbound Flight tried to connect the Legends outline of events in Hand of Thrawn, to the prequel movies - by including Anakin & Obi-Wan, by making Palpatine's forces include a couple of Trade Federation Battleships, and so on.

So - it's making the period "more in line with Movie Canon".

Exactly.


So probably "New Old Movie Canon" with "Old Legends Canon" might fit as well

[pendell]

By the way, Sapphire Guard, if you ever decide to go to Good Old Games, you might check out this one . See anyone you recognize?

Somebody made a five minute anime based on it . Not bad.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Peelee]

By the way, Sapphire Guard, if you ever decide to go to Good Old Games, you might check out this one . See anyone you recognize?

Somebody made a five minute anime based on it . Not bad.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I really appreciate how hard Sean Connery tried to sound like the Emperor in that clip.

For reals, though, i remember this game fondly. Does anyone still offer it for play on modern computers?

[pendell]

I think Good old games does. At least, their version supports Windows 10, Ubuntu, and I believe the latest Apple OS.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Peelee]

I think Good old games does. At least, their version supports Windows 10, Ubuntu, and I believe the latest Apple OS.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

You rock.

Respectfully,

A friggin' TIE pilot, baby!

[GrayDeath]

Dang, havent played it since the early 2000s....and I am a GOG customer to boot ....


unexcusable, execute him (would Thrawn say^^).

[Aotrs Commander]

By the way, Sapphire Guard, if you ever decide to go to Good Old Games, you might check out this one . See anyone you recognize?

Somebody made a five minute anime based on it . Not bad.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

No matter how many times I watch that, that never gets old.



You can crowbar TIE Fighter (one of top three best games of all time) to work (the CD version, i.e, the enhanced original version with the actual original Imuse music, far better than the graphically better but using CD soundtrack music release that came with X-Wing and XvTie later) with at least Win 7 and probably 10 with a bit of work. I did a let's play a couple of years ago on the forum (some of you might even remember!) and the only real major issue I had was calibrating the joystick was a bit of a pain.

[Rakaydos]

I've got tie fighter on Steam, from a humble bundle a while back. One of the versions (special edition, IIRC) needs a joystick to play at all, but the other two can be played with a mouse.

[Aotrs Commander]

I've got tie fighter on Steam, from a humble bundle a while back. One of the versions (special edition, IIRC) needs a joystick to play at all, but the other two can be played with a mouse.

I really do not recommend playing TIE Fighter with a mouse, even if you can.

Especially not the later missions when you have to deal with the... Better enemy fighters.

'Taint easy even with a joystick.

[Rakaydos]

I really do not recommend playing TIE Fighter with a mouse, even if you can.

Especially not the later missions when you have to deal with the... Better enemy fighters.

'Taint easy even with a joystick.

I started playing with a laptop touchpad, made it throught at least the 1st mission chain.
Mouse got me to the end of the original release, (ending with thrawn getting promoted to grand admiral) wherein I found that I needed to start the expansion camiaign from the first mission again in order to find out what happens after.

[Peelee]

I started playing with a laptop touchpad, made it throught at least the 1st mission chain.
Mouse got me to the end of the original release, (ending with thrawn getting promoted to grand admiral) wherein I found that I needed to start the expansion camiaign from the first mission again in order to find out what happens after.

I can't even use Fantasy Grounds with a touchpad without getting quickly infuriated. I'm amazed you were able to do a Star Wars flight/dogfighter sim.

[pendell]

The toughest thing (for me) were the missiles; especially the advanced concussion missile.

There are no chaff or decoys in this version of the Galaxy Far Far Away. If someone locks onto you with a missile you can either shoot it down or avoid it. Unless you're flying one of the prototype craft at full shields, a single hit will knock down all your shields and inflict hull damage. Almost nothing will survive two.

Pair that up with 5 Top Ace A-wings on your tail all salvoing missiles at the same time and the game can get un-fun in a hurry

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Aotrs Commander]

Also, bear in mind what I dicovered in my own playthrough - the Tech Room LIES.

TIE Advanced/Avengers actually have only 50 SBD shields and TIE Defenders only 100 (not 100 and 200 as stated). (I think the confused themselves, because of the shield sectors which you have, but the other craft don't.) A TIE Avenger can take exactly two Advanced Concussion missiles hits (60 damage), period. The first one will punch through fully charged shields (50 damage + 10 hull (50%) - the second WILL kill you automatically, even at full shields.

After twenty years of taking those tech room numbers at face value, I was quite cheesed to find out very emphatically that they were wrong. (I spent one bit of time during the let's play convincing myself.)

(And well worth noting if you can set it up right, you can fire continuously while you're being reloaded. It's not quite an exploit, but given how cheesy some of the missions are, you kind of need every edge.)

I managed to go through all but, I think, three missions on hard mode and get the majority of the goals on most of them - the remaining three I had to tone down to medium (and in one case easy). Honestly, I probably would not have done it were it not for the let's play, and it's not something I think I would rush to repeat!

[russdm]

By the way, Sapphire Guard, if you ever decide to go to Good Old Games, you might check out this one . See anyone you recognize?

Somebody made a five minute anime based on it . Not bad.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

That Anime is really good. The maker should be hired to do a TIE Fighter themed Anime TV Show.

Personally, I would like something in new canon, that follows the X-Wing games and X-wings novels. Show a pilot and their career. And more Imperial friendly stories. Like see stormtroopers or see stories featuring characters that were Imperials. In a movie, I mean.

So, Is this continuing to Hand of Thrawn? Or is the reader completely done?

[Sapphire Guard]

Yeah, I heard those games were good, don't trust my PC to be able to play them though.

The thing about Star Wars is that it's a neverending rabbithole. I'm looking at Outbound Flight at the moment, if that goes okay I might look into reading some more. But no firm plans at the moment. My impression was that TTT was Thrawn at his best, I'm not sure reading further will change my mind.

What book is chronologically next?

[russdm]

What book is chronologically next?

Technically an X-Wing Novel, Isard's Revenge

Relating to Thrawn or Zahn, it's Hand of Thrawn (Spectre of the past, Vision of the Future) followed by Survivors quest.

[Peelee]

Yeah, I heard those games were good, don't trust my PC to be able to play them though.

The thing about Star Wars is that it's a neverending rabbithole. I'm looking at Outbound Flight at the moment, if that goes okay I might look into reading some more. But no firm plans at the moment. My impression was that TTT was Thrawn at his best, I'm not sure reading further will change my mind.

What book is chronologically next?

It may not be Thrawn at his best, but I think the duology would address and fix most of the issues you had with Thrawn in the trilogy.

[Sapphire Guard]

5 chapters into Outbound Flight. The writing has come a long way, Thrawn is still the weakest part of it, although his 'contradict everything' nature is toned back a bit. His conversations don't have a back and forth, they're just 'forth' where Thrawn is either contradicting others in the scene or patiently waiting for them to arrive at his conclusions.

Palpatine's every action is brilliant. The other talking point is this

Emotion is the enemy

, from Mace Windu, which seems like a very un Jedi sentiment.

[Cikomyr]

5 chapters into Outbound Flight. The writing has come a long way, Thrawn is still the weakest part of it, although his 'contradict everything' nature is toned back a bit. His conversations don't have a back and forth, they're just 'forth' where Thrawn is either contradicting others in the scene or patiently waiting for them to arrive at his conclusions.

Palpatine's every action is brilliant. The other talking point is this

, from Mace Windu, which seems like a very un Jedi sentiment.

The inevitable theme of Jedi teachings is the self-denial and the destruction of the Self, to have a life of pure contemplation and service.

Considering your own emotions to be "the enemy" seems to be in line with that philosophy.

[pendell]

The inevitable theme of Jedi teachings is the self-denial and the destruction of the Self, to have a life of pure contemplation and service.

Considering your own emotions to be "the enemy" seems to be in line with that philosophy.

Agreed. Jedi philosophy strongly resembles Zen Buddhism; the idea that evil comes from desire, so the path requires one to eschew desire. The one who transcends desire achieves a peace.

I can well understand why a band of force-sensitive monks would embrace such a philosophy, especially as we saw in the prequels what happens when someone gives into their desires and those emotions are augmented through the Force. Really, Vader's fall started with his intense love ; for his mother, for his wife. I note that the greatest atrocities he committed in the PT all stemmed from threats to those two people.

Mind you, I still think the philosophy roughly equates to spanking a baby with an axe; in my experience you can't simply repress emotions to that extent, and if you do they come roaring back. Perhaps that's why there's no such thing as a Jedi falling just a little. Perhaps they coil their emotions like a spring and when they at last give into it, it unwinds all the way.

So I find the Jedi view of the world imperfect and incomplete, but it is a very reasonable viewpoint for people faced with the Jedi's challenges to adopt.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Peelee]

My favorite part of Outbound Flight turned out at the end to be

Spoiler: for reals

Show

the Vagaari. They were REALLY interesting, and a fantastic villain. They could have been the main antagonists in a different story, really.

Perhaps that's why there's no such thing as a Jedi falling just a little.

Jolee Bindo disagrees.