Houserules to make DMG Firearms viable

[miburo]

The firearms in the DMG are reasonably straightforward and balanced. With a couple of additional elements, I think you can make a fully viable character out of them. Here are some additional rules to help with that.

One caveat--my goal is to make this mechanics-balanced, not historically realistic. As it stands one shot every six seconds with a Renaissance-era firearm is already unrealistic, but so are four shots per six seconds with a heavy crossbow. I'd prefer to suspend disbelief in favor of making the weapons viable for a character. If you want more realism, assume these are breech-loaded firearms whose design was accelerated by magic or something.

Optional Firearms Rules
Misfire: This quality applies to all firearms. On a natural attack roll of one, your firearm jams. The attack automatically misses, and the weapon cannot be used again until you spend an action to unjam it. This requires a Tinker’s Tools check (DC 10). If the check fails, the weapon is broken and must be repaired out of combat during a short or long rest.

Gunnery: When you take this fighting style, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls when using ranged weapons. If you are proficient with Tinker's Tools, you can take a bonus action to automatically clear a misfired weapon without requiring a skill check.

Firearms Expert: When you take this feat, you gain the following benefits:
You gain proficiency with two firearms of your choice, as well as with Tinker's Tools.
You ignore the loading quality of firearms with which you are proficient.
When wielding a one-handed firearm, being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.

The above makes DMG firearms viable for a character with extra attacks, while not making it OP compared to crossbows or longbows (lower range, louder, expensive). It also adds a slight downside in misfire--even with the fighting style, you still automatically miss on a natural 1 and need to burn a bonus action. But it's not enough to cripple the character.

Any thoughts?

[JackPhoenix]

You want to make firearms viable, yet create misfire rule to punish fighters for having more attacks?

[Breashios]

You want to make firearms viable, yet create misfire rule to punish fighters for having more attacks?

I think he does that to make the fighting style and feat more attractive. If a character gets both the fighting style and the feat, they'll get a small bonus and the misfire will be almost inconsequential.

That's the cost for the privilege of using black powder weapons in his world. Seems balanced to me.

[Crgaston]

I think this looks good. Well thought out.

[Chugger]

I've played many versions or knock-offs of dnd - don't even remember the names of half of them. And spell misfires were a common feature in some. In other words, to cast a spell you had to make a fumble check - and then the target got a save. An archer's fumble was "built into" the hit or miss roll iirc, but magic use was, it seems, punished by an extra fail chance. Some players were okay with this - magic was hard to contain/predict and made for wild games - we'd been playing old dnd that had save or die, for example. Highly unpredictable - chance of something far too easy or far too harsh happening was there.

But what I found out playing these other systems was that 89 dice checks to do something simple like shoot a gun is silly. What was that? One misfire roll is not 89 dice checks? Um, but it is - because it starts to feel like 89 dice checks. Streamlining is generally good, unless you're at a table of people who happen to be numb to the effect of having to roll rice for everything - who don't mind rolling every time they move to see if they trip and fall. I happen to not be one of those people and am exaggerating to make a point, of course - about the 89 (it's really more like 37... :D )

[Submortimer]

The Middle Finger of Vecna answer to this problem?

No dex bonus to damage.

All firearms deal two damage dice, but no bonus static damage: A pistol deals 2d6, whereas a hand crossbow does 1d6+dex. In general, this makes guns a very good, very deadly option at lower levels, makes firearm critical hits feel weighty, and allows for things like Bows to remain viable. In addition, it gives a slight downside to choosing a firearm instead of a bow, since the potential for crap damage rolls exists.

hunting rifle: 2d10 (avg. 11, High 20, Low 2)
Heavy crossbow: 1d10+5 (avg 10.5, High 15, Low 6)

[miburo]

I've played many versions or knock-offs of dnd - don't even remember the names of half of them. And spell misfires were a common feature in some. In other words, to cast a spell you had to make a fumble check - and then the target got a save. An archer's fumble was "built into" the hit or miss roll iirc, but magic use was, it seems, punished by an extra fail chance. Some players were okay with this - magic was hard to contain/predict and made for wild games - we'd been playing old dnd that had save or die, for example. Highly unpredictable - chance of something far too easy or far too harsh happening was there.

But what I found out playing these other systems was that 89 dice checks to do something simple like shoot a gun is silly. What was that? One misfire roll is not 89 dice checks? Um, but it is - because it starts to feel like 89 dice checks. Streamlining is generally good, unless you're at a table of people who happen to be numb to the effect of having to roll rice for everything - who don't mind rolling every time they move to see if they trip and fall. I happen to not be one of those people and am exaggerating to make a point, of course - about the 89 (it's really more like 37... :D )

I feel like I'm missing something. The misfire rule is built-into the attack roll (automatic failure on a 1). There's a chance of Tinker Tools check to unjam the gun, but if you have the fighting style the check automatically succeeds. So for most players who actually want to dedicate to using firearms, there are no extra rolls.

I think he does that to make the fighting style and feat more attractive. If a character gets both the fighting style and the feat, they'll get a small bonus and the misfire will be almost inconsequential.

That's the cost for the privilege of using black powder weapons in his world. Seems balanced to me.

That's correct. The hope was to require some amount of specialization to make blackpowder weapons effective, but a feat + a fighting style isn't a huge cost (a dedicated crossbow user would probably take Crossbow Expert feat + Archery fighting style, for example). The misfire adds a bit of flavor to firearms and a balancing element with respect to other ranged weapons. You could remove the misfire rule (and just keep the Archery fighting style) and it would probably be okay. A pistol would do more damage than a hand crossbow (3.5 vs. 6.5 on average) but the hand crossbow does have the bonus attack.

The Middle Finger of Vecna answer to this problem?

No dex bonus to damage.

All firearms deal two damage dice, but no bonus static damage: A pistol deals 2d6, whereas a hand crossbow does 1d6+dex. In general, this makes guns a very good, very deadly option at lower levels, makes firearm critical hits feel weighty, and allows for things like Bows to remain viable. In addition, it gives a slight downside to choosing a firearm instead of a bow, since the potential for crap damage rolls exists.

hunting rifle: 2d10 (avg. 11, High 20, Low 2)
Heavy crossbow: 1d10+5 (avg 10.5, High 15, Low 6)

@Submortimer the no Dex bonus to damage is interesting, but then the DMG early firearms are kinda weak. You'd either have to use the modern ones (which are a bit too powerful) or create your own, which is what I'm guessing MFoV did. Do you have a link to the post?

[Submortimer]

@Submortimer the no Dex bonus to damage is interesting, but then the DMG early firearms are kinda weak. You'd either have to use the modern ones (which are a bit too powerful) or create your own, which is what I'm guessing MFoV did. Do you have a link to the post?

Sure! Here you go:

http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2016/1...arm-rules.html

[miburo]

Sure! Here you go:

http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2016/1...arm-rules.html

Interesting. It works reasonably well if you are using the "modern" firearms as opposed to the early renaissance ones (pistol and musket).

Separately, I took look at the stats and think I have to revise my old rules. The early renaissance firearms are fairly well balanced without needing the misfire thing. They deal more damage but have shorter range than crossbows (hand crossbows are a lot less damage than a pistol, but the bonus action attack from Crossbow Expert makes up for that). The misfire is nice for flavor but probably too much gimping. If you like it, just choose optional Critical Fumble rules (natural roll of 1 causes automatic miss). Otherwise if you are using only early renaissance firearms, I'd probably take it out. This leaves the following rules:

Firearms Expert: When you take this feat, you gain the following benefits:
You gain proficiency with two firearms of your choice.
You gain proficiency with Tinkers Tools, which can be used to construct or repair firearms and to create ammunition.
You ignore the loading quality of firearms with which you are proficient.
When wielding a one-handed firearm, being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.

For fighting style, Just use Archery and call it Gunnery or Marksmanship for flavor if you like (it's still +2 bonus to ranged weapons).