Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

[Gideon Falcon]

Really liking the Elite spellcasters so far. I'm guessing that's going to be your entries to the next few to several contests?

[Jormengand]

Really liking the Elite spellcasters so far. I'm guessing that's going to be your entries to the next few to several contests?

Maybe-possibly. It depends what the themes are and whether or not I have any better ideas for each contest. If the next theme is the melee/ranged "Switch hitter" theme then it might be harder (unless I make some weird bisexuality pun* and make a love mage).

*If you don't get the joke, you need to think harder about the possible metaphorical uses of the term "Switch hitter".

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For now, I just need the rest of the elite creatures. And a freaking poem!

[noob]

I guess shapechanging in an elite creature could be a very good defense.(gaining the elite creature extraordinary special quality)

Also why do jaguars have immunity to electricity and fire?
I mean who could guess "hey it is a jaguar a perfectly normal animal so I should not use fireball or lightning because it is well known animals are often immune to fire and lightning"

[Westhart]

Because see invisibility and true seeing remove invisible from the list of things it is (inaudible, inolfactible, intangible...) you can see it with that. Similarly if your wizard has researched a true hearing spell, it would work. Because divination abilities like discern location aren't senses (and some, like circle dance, actually give you feedback by pointing you in the right direction, literally turning your body towards the target) those would work. Scrying wouldn't let you see it without some kind of spell that works through a scrying sensor, and clairaudience wouldn't let you hear it. Darkvision (the spell) grants darkvision (the sense) and therefore wouldn't work.

In particular, detect thoughts, see invisibility, locate creature, true seeing, discern location and greater prying eyes would detect it. Clairaudience, clairvoyance, arcane eye, scrying and greater scrying wouldn't. Detect magic, arcane sight and greater arcane sight might, depending on whether or not it was under a spell effect. Prying eyes might, because they might get stuck trying to move through the hidden doom, but they can't see it. Foresight wouldn't detect it exactly, because it doesn't really do that, but it does give you warnings on how best to protect yourself, which could include "Cast see invisibility and look up".

I thought so, just making sure .

[Jormengand]

I guess shapechanging in an elite creature could be a very good defense.(gaining the elite creature extraordinary special quality)

"In general, abilities do not allow you to transform into elite creatures unless they specify so in the description. Not even polymorph any object can turn a creature into an elite creature. Similarly, abilities don't allow you to summon or call elite creatures unless they tell you so in the description."

Also why do jaguars have immunity to electricity and fire?
I mean who could guess "hey it is a jaguar a perfectly normal animal so I should not use fireball or lightning because it is well known animals are often immune to fire and lightning"

Artistic license?

I don't know that badgers are particularly well known for raging until death either. And if it were a perfectly normal jaguar, it would just use the stats for a tiger anyway, most likely. Hells, orcas are killer whales and the huge shark statblock specifies it includes great whites. Originally, I wasn't going to give elite spells individual names (so conflagration would just have been called elite fireball) but then I realised that it was more evocative to at least give them some name, and the same remains true of the creatures. Hells, they even influenced some of my design decisions (from that joke about handwashing and FREEDOM! of movement to the fact that Hounds of Tindalos have that weird teleport). But they're not meant to imply that yeah, this jaguar is just a normal boring jaguar that happens to be able to survive having a building dropped on it and still be up for some lava-swimming later. It's elite, it's special, there's something else to it.

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The maker is now finally done, with:

38587 words (Rest combined: 10926)
4406 lines (Rest combined: 1303)
234539 characters (Rest combined: 63150)
53 new elite spells (7 old; 1 old referenced)
192 new elite creatures (2 old)

...

...and 1 exhausted Jormengand.

[Ranged Ranger]

The Chiaroscuri is now complete, at least for the purposes this competition. Any comments/suggestions on the balance of the new Sigil Words (or any other part of the entry) is of course welcome.

[Jormengand]

The Chiaroscuri is now complete, at least for the purposes this competition. Any comments/suggestions on the balance of the new Sigil Words (or any other part of the entry) is of course welcome.

If you insist:

"Maximum ranks" requirement is a bad idea, particularly because you are thereafter forced to take maximum ranks or lose the benefits of the levels, well maybe, but also it means you can change whether or not you qualify from one level to another repeatedly, which is weird.
Learn language is not a skill. Speak language is.
Why seven levels? It just seems weird.
Ruul is way stronger than either of the other two. Both of the others are almost weak compared to standard sigils (compare +2 to initiative and all dex skills with +10 to two dex skills)
Improved Sigil (Ruul) is usually just a bad version of Improved Initiative, a feat that's already relatively weak outside of core (it's not the worst, but you don't take it if there's any real competition for your feat slots).

[noob]

Oh no so it means I am not going to have an easy time getting a lava pool with jaguars?

[Jormengand]

Hey, NA, can we have a voting thread please?

[Ranged Ranger]

-SNIP- The maker is now finally done, with:

38587 words (Rest combined: 10926)
4406 lines (Rest combined: 1303)
234539 characters (Rest combined: 63150)
53 new elite spells (7 old; 1 old referenced)
192 new elite creatures (2 old)

...

...and 1 exhausted Jormengand.

You do realize the contest is for prestige classes, not new source books?

If you insist:

"Maximum ranks" requirement is a bad idea, particularly because you are thereafter forced to take maximum ranks or lose the benefits of the levels, well maybe, but also it means you can change whether or not you qualify from one level to another repeatedly, which is weird.

oh... forgot about the cease to meet the entry requirements - loose benefits of the levels you have rule... was thinking what should it take to get the first lvl, and after that your fine.... (been way to long since I've actually had a group to play with....) hmm...

Learn language is not a skill. Speak language is.

Oops...

Why seven levels? It just seems weird.

because it didn't seem worth stretching it out past what I had content for.

Ruul is way stronger than either of the other two. Both of the others are almost weak compared to standard sigils (compare +2 to initiative and all dex skills with +10 to two dex skills)

Drat, I had considered making those higher, but wasn't sure where the balance point would be...

Improved Sigil (Ruul) is usually just a bad version of Improved Initiative, a feat that's already relatively weak outside of core (it's not the worst, but you don't take it if there's any real competition for your feat slots).

so maybe +3 per sigil?

Thanks for the feedback! Since we're past the extended deadline, I guess I'll wait until after the vote to release a version 2 with those updates/fixes (and possibly others to the sigil words) on my Homebrew Thread...

[Jormengand]

You do realize the contest is for prestige classes, not new source books?

Shoosh!

At least it could be worse. There was that time I made what could easily literally have been a sourcebook on its own for one of the base class contests. I'll let bekeleven explain:

The inventor does a lot of things right. It does a lot of things wrong. It just plain does more things than the other contestants... combined. The inventor is over 23,000 words. That's over 4 times longer than the next longest, and far more of it is necessary to understanding the mechanics of the class, as opposed to mine, which is about half fluff and game notes. It's approaching the length of the Tome of the Holy Grail, my pet project for going on 4 years - longer than I've been registered on these forums. And most of it appears to have been built in two weeks, all of it in 4.

Honestly, game design is kinda my passion. I'm posting this inbetween working on DBD, and trying to relax for a while, and going back to scribbling away at the combat system, and trying to relax, and ah, screw it, let's make more games. I have 150ish pages of a broken mess that I'll never finish (and which, in the places it works at all, was used to inform the design process of DBD), I have tons of homebrew, oh, and I'm working on an actual splatbook as well. It's just the way I am. This is my obsession, I guess.

[Westhart]

Hey, NA, can we have a voting thread please?

Throwin' together one now, was... unavailable this weekend.

[Jormengand]

Throwin' together one now, was... unavailable this weekend.

That ellipsis makes me slightly concerned. You okay?

[Aniikinis]

Yeah, I'm with Jorm, are you alright?

[Westhart]

That ellipsis makes me slightly concerned. You okay?

I am now, one of my friends apparently forgot I was allergic to corn syrup... Yeah...

...anyhow, here's the voting thread everyone.

[Morphic tide]

I am now, one of my friends apparently forgot I was allergic to corn syrup... Yeah...

...anyhow, here's the voting thread everyone.

Don't forget to put a link in your signature.

[Westhart]

Don't forget to put a link in your signature.

Aha, thought I forgot something! Merci!

[Goes to add]

[Jormengand]

Aha, thought I forgot something! Merci!

[Goes to add]

You also didn't put the class links in the voting thread, though that probably doesn't actually matter.

[Westhart]

You also didn't put the class links in the voting thread, though that probably doesn't actually matter.

Oh, I suppose I'll go add those later today, slipped my mind completely. XD

[rferries]

Btw, thanks for arranging this NothingAbnormal. Recent experience on other forums has taught me that this is a surprising amount of work!

[Westhart]

Btw, thanks for arranging this NothingAbnormal. Recent experience on other forums has taught me that this is a surprising amount of work!

Ah, no problem, it was bothering me that there wasn't one honestly... Wish I hadn't gotten sick, then my entry may have had a bit more then just paragons .

[Westhart]

I guess this is the part where i tell you lot to start arguing over the next theme .

[Morphic tide]

I guess this is the part where i tell you lot to start arguing over the next theme .

Switch hitters.

[Westhart]

Switch hitters.

You know, I'll throw my vote behind that, as I've got an idea in mind, not sure of the quality, but it is an idea .

[Jormengand]

Ehh, why not? I could go for something which isn't an elite caster, and this sounds like a great excuse for something simple.

Simple-ish anyway.

[Westhart]

Ehh, why not? I could go for something which isn't an elite caster, and this sounds like a great excuse for something simple.

Simple-ish anyway.

Awh, I like the elite casters though!

[Jormengand]

Awh, I like the elite casters though!

Of course, there is the possible compromise here...

Indirect Shot (Elite Far Shot)
Prerequisite: Dead Shot
Benefit: As Far Shot, plus you do not need line of effect to make attacks - you can fire over or around barriers so long as there is some way your shot could reach the target, even by ricocheting off walls or potentially passing straight through them if they're weak enough.
Special: Elite feats like Indirect Shot are difficult to resist fully. Your opponent cannot claim cover or concealment for any interposing barrier that you can bypass this way, though you still need to know that they're there.

[Aniikinis]

I'm putting my vote in for Creepy Crawlies!

[Jormengand]

I'm putting my vote in for Creepy Crawlies!

No! No! I... there is a reason I made all of the elite vermin templates! Stop, fiend!

[Aniikinis]

No! No! I... there is a reason I made all of the elite vermin templates! Stop, fiend!

Listen, just because you made elite vermin before, doesn't mean you have to again. Maybe you'll make a class about spitting bees and flying with feathers like Urki from Far Cry: Primal. Who knows, I certainly don't. [See profile pic for emotion of this post ]