Water, Earth, Fire and Air [Bending system & Base Classes]

[Lord Tataraus]

Has the ability to see things in the Spirit World as if it was in the real world been addressed yet? In a few episodes, Iroh spotted spirits no one else saw. The origin of such an ability is unknown as of yet, but what would it be in game? A feat? Spell-like Ability?

At one point Iroh mentioned that he had been to the spirit world, that might be part of it. Though in "The Siege of the North part 2" Katara sees Aang's spirit return to his body, though he is in the real realm not the spirit world.

[drawingfreak]

I'll need to rewatch Siege of the North again. Good thing I have friends who own the DVDs. I don't recall Katara seeing him.

[Lord Tataraus]

I'll need to rewatch Siege of the North again. Good thing I have friends who own the DVDs. I don't recall Katara seeing him.

At about 4:38-4:50 (near the end of the clip) here.

[KBF]

This looks like a very well done class, I love the free-form aspect of combining forms. But I would think that before making prestige classes, you should perfect the Airbender.

[Ceiling009]

You know, I just thought of something... would be it be feasible to learn seeds from scrolls? As they do in the actual show, but I mean, could you add to your repertoire of seeds, if you studied some scrolls? Kinda like Wizard spells? Probably be like max number be whatever level you have + base wis mod? Or let them be like martial scrolls, same effect and everything, but usable only once?

[averagejoe]

You know, I just thought of something... would be it be feasible to learn seeds from scrolls? As they do in the actual show, but I mean, could you add to your repertoire of seeds, if you studied some scrolls? Kinda like Wizard spells? Probably be like max number be whatever level you have + base wis mod? Or let them be like martial scrolls, same effect and everything, but usable only once?

It seems more like scrolls would replace an actual trainer more than anything. Something like,

Player Red: "Hey, we haven't been to the water temple in a long time, and Player Blue hasn't met any other waterbending masters. How is she learning more forms?"

DM: Um, well, Player Blue found a scroll in that village you guys just went through. She's been learning from that.

[Lord Tataraus]

It seems more like scrolls would replace an actual trainer more than anything. Something like,

Player Red: "Hey, we haven't been to the water temple in a long time, and Player Blue hasn't met any other waterbending masters. How is she learning more forms?"

DM: Um, well, Player Blue found a scroll in that village you guys just went through. She's been learning from that.

Hmm, I think the benders have to learn new seeds like wizards need to learn spells. They have to train for a time with a master or with a scroll like a wizard needs to research to find or create a spell to add to his spell book. And they would be expensive like spell scrolls considering all the trouble those pirates went to in "The Waterbending Scroll" (oddly enough).

[averagejoe]

Hmm, I think the benders have to learn new seeds like wizards need to learn spells. They have to train for a time with a master or with a scroll like a wizard needs to research to find or create a spell to add to his spell book. And they would be expensive like spell scrolls considering all the trouble those pirates went to in "The Waterbending Scroll" (oddly enough).

Well, I think it was pricey because it was an antique, not because anyone wanted to get practical use out of it.

[Collin152]

Well, I think it was pricey because it was an antique, not because anyone wanted to get practical use out of it.

Yeah. That, and think of all the trouble the pirates went through to get it.
Seriously though, scrolls are more of a backround thing, it looks like. After all, there are noly so many seeds, and it would be dreadful for someone to learn them all.

Oh, and on an off note, I plan on making a lightning-based spinoff for campaigns where it makes little sense for fire manipulators to be the lightning manipulators as well.

[Lord Tataraus]

Yeah. That, and think of all the trouble the pirates went through to get it.
Seriously though, scrolls are more of a backround thing, it looks like. After all, there are noly so many seeds, and it would be dreadful for someone to learn them all.

Oh, and on an off note, I plan on making a lightning-based spinoff for campaigns where it makes little sense for fire manipulators to be the lightning manipulators as well.

I don't know, they explain that pretty well I think. Lightning does start fires anyway. Electricity is just extremely concentrated energy whereas fire is more loose energy. Because of this it is hard to master and extremely powerful. Making a lightning-based "bender" class would destroy the sense of raw power that only the best firebenders can control.

[Eighth_Seraph]

The airbender has finally been moved to the first page. Look for it there or use my signature as a shortcut.

[Guyr Adamantine]

Kinda cool, but there is a fluffy:

others seek to destroy the machinery of destruction

Great but the repeating hurt.

But now,here I am with a more interesting critic than grammar.

I'm having second thoughts about Air Scythe. Well, third or fifth thoughts, really. I can't recall ever seeing any kind of slashing damage ever being done in airbending.

I believe you're right about slashing, but while fighting the sandbenders wasn't he violently destroying their sandskimmers with airbending?

Sounds great overall. I'm more of an eathbender type, but this look like a great bending class. Can't wait to see the seeds!

[Lord Tataraus]

I was thinking that Airbender's Leap would not be a seed, but a collection of class features giving bonuses to jump checks, all jumps considered to have a running start and some sort of limited feather fall based on jump. It seems that just being an airbender allows Aang to jump so much higher all the time, even when just getting up from sitting. As for the Air Blast, that will be a bull-rush attack right? How are you planning to implement that, or do you not know yet? I would suggest that you not have an attack roll, but instead make the air blast be a dex check (on a successful bending check of course) with some sort of bonus like +4 at first and increases by +4 every odd level. (total of +40 at 19th) or a +2 at every odd level (+4 at 1st) for a total of +22 at 19th. Also, the air blast might deal damage to objects that don't move either because they are too heavy or are held down.

Edit: Just a clarification: when you talk about the most important abilities it says:

Abilities – A high Wisdom score is essential to an airbender as it determines the save DC’s for many of his best forms and abilities as well as providing a needed AC boost. A high Dexterity is also important, as it affects many of an airbender’s best skills and provides additional AC.

Emphasis mine. But the only other mention of an AC boost is under Dodge that only states that airbenders get a dodge bonus as shown on the table, did you mean to give them an AC bonus equal to their wisdom modifier as well?

[Eighth_Seraph]

I believe you're right about slashing, but while fighting the sandbenders wasn't he violently destroying their sandskimmers with airbending?

You bet your airbender staff he did. I'm calling that bludgeoning damage, though, since they splintered into chunks of similar size to Scrabble pieces. That's not something you generally get out of slicing damage.

Tatarus: I am definitely considering giving the airbender solid bonuses to Tumble and Jump as class features, as well as an increase in base land speed, since Aang seemed to use those a great deal in his fighting style (the boat-battle against General Zhao, anybody?). In any case, those will be something reasonable in the +4-+10 range, but Airbender's Leap will be more along the lines of a jump over a 30-foot wall.

As for the Wisdom bonus, that's something I forgot to erase during the transition from the original. In a world without magic armor, I hardly think Wisdom to AC and a straight Dodge bonus is necessary.

(EDIT)I hereby present one of an airbender's two best friends, the...

Airbender Staff
{table]

Cost

|

Damage

|

Critical

|

Range Increment

|

Weight

|

Type
n/a

|

1d6/1d6

|

x2

|

-

|

2 lb.

|

Bludgeoning

[/table]

Special
The Airbender Staff counts as a quarterstaff in terms of proficiency and weapon-based feats, and is always considered a masterwork weapon. The Airbender Staff can also unfold into a glider by pushing a simple lever in the side, allowing the airbender's ability to fly, though it doesn't grant any special benefits to non-airbenders.
The Airbending Staff is included in the airbender's basic motions, and thus can be held without penalty while executing airbending forms.The staff also grants a +1 to any Airbending checks made while wielding it, and affects airbending seeds in different ways (see the individual seeds for details).

[Collin152]

Regarding "slicing" the rock: Does not earthbending usually require contact with the earth, at least when the bending begins? Otherwise, any eartbender could break free from a metal prison by bending the earth beneath it.

[Eighth_Seraph]

I think that it's not a matter of being in contact with the earth; it seems that being completely surrounded by metal on all sides stops the earthbender's access to it altogether. Notice that Toph couldn't see outside the box she was put in, even after discovering she could bend it, though she could see the chunks of rock that were flung at her during that earthbending tournament, even though they were in the air and thus not in contact with her. Not only that, but Aang turned that anti-air boulder artillery into dust as he was flying into Ba Sing Se on Appa in The Earth King. No contact there, either.

For any that haven't noticed, I've moved the firebender over to the front page, a few posts below the earthbender. I plan to do the same to the airbender as soon as it's completed and done with the criticism stage.

[Lord Tataraus]

So are you planning on the air blast being bludgeon damage instead of bull rush? or will you allow it to be either? or is the bull rush just going to be a seed?

Oh, and by the way, I like the name "Twinkletoes" for a seed.

[Ceiling009]

Hmm... slashing damage... I would be okay with an Airbender making a blade of air and slashing at things, or making a large blade of air and doing it... in fact, couldn't you do that with Slice too? But that's besides the point... Personally, I think slashing is more appropriate, than bludgeoning with air, especially with something like Air Scythe... I could see another seed, something like Air ball, which can do bludgeoning damage...

[Eighth_Seraph]

...That's what I'm saying. I'm planning, unless someone convinces me otherwise, to completely replace Air Scythe with a bludgeoning damage version. This version will also be dealing less damage, and it may or may not be non-lethal damage, just to stay airbender-like.

So are you planning on the air blast being bludgeon damage instead of bull rush? or will you allow it to be either? or is the bull rush just going to be a seed?

No, Air Blast will definitely have a bullrush ability in there. It will also include throwing objects at high speeds (if there's an "airball" court in the southern air temple, I assume that the ability to use it is pretty universal), dislodging objects on the ground and having them clonk people in their path, and a super-nerfed Gust of Wind usage, which will be backed up by a proper imitation as a seed. It's a difficult thing to tie together.

Oh, and by the way, I like the name "Twinkletoes" for a seed.

Heh. I figured it would get a good reception, though I'm not sure exactly how useful it'll be. Would be a good anti-earthbender tool if you know they have tremorsense, but it'll be only circumstantially practical, methinks. We'll see.

(EDIT) First three seeds up. I would love if anybody could give me basic inspiration for more seeds to put up here, since the poor airbender's getting very little love as things stand now.

[Collin152]

Well, any airbender hoping to do melee combat would have flowing air strike, and I love run as the wind. Does it take any action to use that seed? Would that, therefore, preclude a double move action?
Oh, and it says fog in the first seed a couple times, and it isn't really fog.

[Ceiling009]

Airbender's Leap can feasibly be a subset of effects produced by levitate, instead of actual levitation, it's a small burst, that allows the leap. Or, rather it's an subset of powers of the air blast, something like... pushing against the ground with air, or having a gust of wind pull you up as you jump. I'm just mentioning it to lower the number of seeds, really... while I still think Air Scythe should be considered a seed... I can see the idea behind is that, an airbender compresses a line of air... to form a blade... almost like slice... I wouldn't mind if you put another seed along with it... Air ball or something that basically does less damage, but is bludgeoning and a possible orb like effect.

[Slartibartfast]

Well, first off, it's got two "L"'s in the name. Second, waterbender aint mine, so I diddn't lit it. Just a bit of perfectionism. Now as for the DC, it seems fine. To maitain the water used in a DC 40 form, you roll a DC 30 concentration check. For a DC 700 waterbending form, a DC 690 concentration check.
"Eureka! Dahk ist un greiebun simpul!"

But that isn't what you wrote. You wrote the Waterbending Check, which is the number one totals on their die roll. Meaning that the better you bend the water the harder it is to keep it.

For example, if I had my DC 40 check, and rolled a 78 (because I am twinked out and insane) I'd need to roll a 68 to keep the water, not a 30.

You need to rewrite it to say "Total Waterbending DC" or something that actually means that.

[Lord Tataraus]

Airbender's Leap can feasibly be a subset of effects produced by levitate, instead of actual levitation, it's a small burst, that allows the leap. Or, rather it's an subset of powers of the air blast, something like... pushing against the ground with air, or having a gust of wind pull you up as you jump. I'm just mentioning it to lower the number of seeds, really... while I still think Air Scythe should be considered a seed... I can see the idea behind is that, an airbender compresses a line of air... to form a blade... almost like slice... I wouldn't mind if you put another seed along with it... Air ball or something that basically does less damage, but is bludgeoning and a possible orb like effect.

I agree with ceiling, and twinkletoes would probably be a subset of Levitate as well.

On an unrelated note, has anyone tried to stat out any of the characters with the classes as they are now? Looking at the Earthbender, I think Toph can be stated out, though she has a major boost on tremorsense. I think the firebenders can be stated out as well. Katara needs to have the water spout seed though, so we just need that seed. Anyone going to give it a shot?

Edit: I didn't want to double post, but i have a question: are you going to give a description for the Manipulate class feature of the airbender? And a nitpick, shouldn't the table heading be "Seeds Known" not "Forms Known"?

[Collin152]

But that isn't what you wrote. You wrote the Waterbending Check, which is the number one totals on their die roll. Meaning that the better you bend the water the harder it is to keep it.

For example, if I had my DC 40 check, and rolled a 78 (because I am twinked out and insane) I'd need to roll a 68 to keep the water, not a 30.

You need to rewrite it to say "Total Waterbending DC" or something that actually means that.

I really hate to repeat myself, but perhaps I wasn't clear: I diddn't write that. Talk to Seraph, please.
Thank you, come again.

[Mephibosheth]

Propel
Base DC: Varies

Spoiler

Show

You push and pull the water under your boat, gaining a level of control over the craft that is impossible with more mundane methods of propulsion.
• Launch (Base DC 10): Instead of pushing a boat into the water, you bring the water to the boat, pulling waves up underneath the craft and causing the waves to draw the craft into the water. Launching a boat in this manner takes 30 seconds (5 full round actions). For every 2 by which your Waterbending check exceeds the base DC, the time required to launch the boat decreases by 1 round.
• Navigate (Base DC 10): Instead of using sails or a motor, you bend the water underneath the boat to propel it forward, slow it down, and change directions. As a full-round action, you can move a Huge or smaller boat 10 ft/round with Average maneuverability (DMG p. 20 – for the purposes of this form, disregard any movement characteristics that have to do with movement in 3 dimensions, including minimum speed and the ability to hover). You can increase the speed and/or maneuverability of the craft by adding 5 to the DC for every 10 feet of speed or to increase the maneuverability to Good. You can also propel a larger craft by increasing the DC by 5 per size increase. You can also slow and stop a boat using this seed. Each full-round action spent slowing a boat reduces its speed by an amount equal to ¼ of its original speed. Increasing the DC by 5 allows you to reduce speed by an amount equal to ½ of the original speed.
• Slide (Base DC 15): As a standard action you create a wave that pushes a craft sideways by 10 ft. For every 5 by which your Waterbending check exceeds the DC the craft moves an additional 5 feet sideways.

Water Spout
Base DC: 10

Spoiler

Show

As a move action you lift water in a swirling, spiraling pattern with yourself at the top. This allows you to move straight up or down at a rate of up to 20 ft. A Water Spout lasts as long as you concentrate (a swift action, up to a maximum number of rounds equal to your class level), and you can move up or down as you desire. Your maximum speed increase by 5 ft for every 5 by which your Waterbending check exceeds the base DC.

Golem
Base DC: 15

Spoiler

Show

As a full round action, a Waterbender can create a golem that he/she can direct in combat. The golem is a Medium animated object composed of ice. The Waterbender must direct its actions in combat by making an Waterbending check equal to the original Waterbending DC as a full-round action, with the golem essentially mimicking the actions taken by the Waterbender. If the Waterbender does not concentrate on maintaining and directing the golem or fails the Waterbending check to control it, the golem collapses. The golem's attack rolls use the Waterbender’s base attack bonus and are modified by the Waterbender's Wisdom modifier instead of the golem's Strength modifier. A Waterbender can control a golem he/she can't see, but the golem is considered blind. The Waterbender can increase the size of the golem by adding 5 to the DC for every size increase desired. For example, increasing the DC to 35 allows the Waterbender to create a Gargantuan golem. Additionally, the Waterbender can increase the hardness of the golem by adding 2 to the DC for every +1 hardness and can increase the golem’s physical ability scores by adding 2 to the DC for every +1 to a single score. The Waterbender cannot increase the golem’s ability scores by an amount greater than his/her Wisdom modifier. A Waterbender with a Wisdom modifier of +5 could increase the golem’s Strength or Dexterity (or both with a high enough Waterbending check) scores by a maximum of 5, increasing the Waterbending DC by 10 in the process.

To be honest, I’m not sure about the Propel seed. I based the rules for boat movement on the rules for tactical movement in 3 dimensions because I wanted to stick to the core and I don’t remember any core rules that govern boats. I hope the system isn’t too clunky and awkward. I think it works pretty well, but I’m open to suggestions. Also, note that this Golem form is identical to the Earthbender form, but made of ice. Unless anyone has a radically different idea for Waterbender golems, I see no reason to change the mechanic. Finally, no one’s commented on either of the golem forms after I redrafted them, and the new Earthbending form hasn’t been added to the list.

I have some ideas for a new monk/ninja/whatever base class, but they’re really rough. I’m also still going to give some thought to a Sandbender PrC, but no one should let that prevent them from doing one on their own. Finally, I’m going to reserve comment on the Airbender until more forms (especially Air Blast) are finished.

Mephibosheth

[Ceiling009]

There's been on thing about the Golem that always made me wonder... Since you're controlling the golem, how do you see through it? Or do you? I mean, feasibly, you could make a golem, stand behind a wall, and let it wreck havoc... but you know, it's hard to control something you can't see. The funniest thing I can think would happen, is that you basically make a cockpit inside almost, kinda like those from G-Gundam, and it'd be a large elemental mech... Also, thoughts on offensive use of water sprout + Ice shard?

[Guyr Adamantine]

Water Spout
Base DC: 10
As a standard action you lift water in a swirling, spiraling pattern with yourself at the top. This allows you to move straight up or down at a rate of up to 20 ft. A Water Spout lasts as long as you concentrate (a standard action, up to a maximum number of rounds equal to your class level), and you can move up or down as you desire. Your maximum speed increase by 5 ft for every 5 by which your Waterbending check exceeds the base DC.

To limit Water Spout to standard actions hurt, but it could be changed by applying the ''You can decrease the bending and concentration time to a move action by increasing the DC by 15'' comment.

The boating rules are in Stormwrack but yours are simply and more population-without-every-book-in-the-galaxy friendly.

[Lord Tataraus]

Propel seems solid. Of course if you have access to Arms and Equipment guide or Stormwrack, you can use Nautical Poor instead of Average and Nautical Average instead of Good.

I think Water Spout should be a move action, whenever someone used it it went pretty fast. And the maintaining should just be a free action, look at when that waterbending master in "The Siege of the North" used this to get height advantage, he wasn't devoting much time to maintaining the water spout, same with Aang during avatar form (I know he used it at least once).

As for the Golem, I think the Base DC should be higher. We have not yet seen anything like this before and it strikes me as something that's very difficult to maintain. Also, could you make it a liquid water golem instead of an ice golem by raising the DC? You would gain huge damage reduction or take half damage from weapons and could hold people inside it.

[Mephibosheth]

Thanks a lot for the comments. Let's see...

Ceiling009:

I added a sentence about controlling a golem you can't see. I see no reason why you couldn't do it (as long as it's in your bending range), but it would fight as if blind. There's no precedent for this form in the show, so I'm just kinda making it up as I go.

Guyr Adamantine:

Based on yours and Tataraus' comments, I changed Water Spout to only require a move action to move and a swift action to concentrate. I hope that fixes it.

Lord Tataraus:

I like the bending DC where it is at the moment (though playtesting could change that). A medium animated object isn't all that powerful, and I wanted there to be room to improve it substantially. Remember also that controlling it is a full-round action, so the golem is pretty much all you get while you're using it. It's not like an animal companion that adds another member to the party. I think that, given these conditions, the DC is fine. Also, while a liquid golem would technically be possible, I'd have to write up stats for "water" as a material in order to animate it. I'll have to give it some thought.

General:

I'm glad people like (or at least, don't hate) the rules for Propel. I have both the Arms and Equipment Guide and Stormwrack, but I thought it best to use maneuverability rules that are available to everyone for free.

Thanks for the comments.

Mephibosheth

[Lord Tataraus]

Hm, I guess I was thinking of a much larger golem, and I missed the full-round action to control. Looks good. I'm glad you changed the water spout, I guess a swift action isn't too bad. My comment on Nautical movements were for those who had access to change it, not to change the actual description, sorry not to make that clear. It's fine as written.

As for the water golem, I would suggest something like this:
Requires a 10ft cube to create a medium water golem (it compresses the water), a 20ft cube for a large golem, 40ft for huge, etc. The golem functions as an ice golem except it gains DR 10/bludgeoning and gains engulf, causing the subject to hold his breath or drown. Making a water golem would increase the DC by 10. You can also increase the DR by 5 by increasing the DC by 5 (max DR 30).