Firefox Quantum

[Avilan the Grey]

Has anyone tried it yet. It definitely gets my recommendation - it is fulfilling all the promises made by Mozilla; looks like they are finally ahead of Chrome again.
I have never experienced a browser this fast. And a lot of nice touches, too.

For anyone interested, https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/quantum/.
It is officially released on Nov 14th, but I am using the (very very stable) beta.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Ah, so a browser can be quantum!

[Avilan the Grey]

Ah, so a browser can be quantum!

Spoiler: Yes.

Show

[snafuy]

Has anyone tried it yet. It definitely gets my recommendation - it is fulfilling all the promises made by Mozilla; looks like they are finally ahead of Chrome again.

Oh, is that why the icon changed last month? I'm also using Beta. Honestly hadn't noticed any speed difference, but it hasn't given me any trouble.

[ChapelCanaan]

Good. I love Chrome, but it is a fricking memory hog.

Greedy pig of a program.

[factotum]

I'm having a mixed experience with it. Annoying that the guy who writes NoScript still hasn't updated it for the new extension format, but I can't really blame Mozilla for that. However, on my decent home computer I didn't really notice any difference in speed, and on my work machine (which is an absolutely ancient piece of garbage with a dual-core processor, 4Gb of RAM, and a hard drive that appears to have to chip the data onto a stone tablet for all the speed it has) I reckon it's actually a bit slower than the old one. Maybe the performance improvements people are talking about have come from better use of multi-threading, so a dual-core CPU doesn't see such a boost?

[EDIT] Some other niggles that are easily fixable, but should be borne in mind:

- It doesn't honour your setting to not display loads of garbage on a new tab, so you have to switch all that off again.
- I have no idea why they put those blank spaces at either end of the toolbar, in between the URL/Search bars and the icons at the end? I think it looks awful and I deleted those "flexible spaces" from the customise menu.
- The Download icon is set to auto-hide by default, so it won't show if you don't have any downloads in the current session--even if there are loads of downloads from a *previous* session you might want to look at! Easy enough to turn auto hide off, thankfully.

[Binks]

Tried the update yesterday and ended up reverting it. I can't lose so many of my extensions and still have FF be a usable browser :P. Once there's an actual substitute for the addon bar restored extension, noscript (which they have announced is being worked on and should be coming out tomorrow), and scrapbook (tried pocket, and it's terrible. Web Scrapbook lacks all the features of original Scrapbook I used, so useless for now) I'll go with the update, but being unable to save pages, block annoying auto-run scripts, and have my buttons where I want them in the browser is not a price I'm willing to pay for a theoretical speed upgrade...

[Avilan the Grey]

Well I never used that many extensions:
Ublock Origin
Enhancer for Youtube
Privacy Badger and
Bitwarden

All of them already compatible with this version.
Never understood the hype for Noscript btw. Tried it a long time before and it just drove me nuts by having to confirm every page I went to.

[factotum]

Well, you only need to do that confirmation *once* on each website. NoScript is there as a security measure, mainly--you don't want any old random script to get run on a website, you have no idea what it's doing; and the default option is far too clumsy, since it only allows you to either block or allow scripts globally for all websites.

[Aotrs Commander]

I just had it update immediately and I instantly hate it.

On top of the total lack of warning usuful when Firefox decides to do anything (because I have firefox open about sixteen hours a day EVERY DAY and this is the first I've heard of it), the new UI is utterly crap and once again, they have failed to provide any default useful customisation options.

I am absolutely livid. How the merry hell is my 90-year old grandmother with sight problems supposed to navigate this tiny crap, which has a smaller UI than most of my FRACKING GAMES?

We’ve heard from a few folks that the font sizes for the bookmarks bar and tabs are too small to read easily, and I really apologize for that. Our user interface team is working on some ways to address this, but those improvements won’t be available for a few more months.

"Months." For something like changing the interface size so people can read it.

That is fracking obscene; the sheer level of flat-out unthinking lack of consideration for anyone who is not, basically, an able-bodied, perfectly sighted individual. AGAIN. No, some smart-arse techie/designer comes along going "yeah, I'm gonna make this look cool" and fracking about with the interface and, as usual, with no thought for anyone other than their own bloody age-group and capability range.

Tried the update yesterday and ended up reverting it. I can't lose so many of my extensions and still have FF be a usable browser :P. Once there's an actual substitute for the addon bar restored extension, noscript (which they have announced is being worked on and should be coming out tomorrow), and scrapbook (tried pocket, and it's terrible. Web Scrapbook lacks all the features of original Scrapbook I used, so useless for now) I'll go with the update, but being unable to save pages, block annoying auto-run scripts, and have my buttons where I want them in the browser is not a price I'm willing to pay for a theoretical speed upgrade...

How did you revert it back (just a re-install) and how did or could you get all your history and settings back?

I want to revert at least to have a functional browser long enough to start searching for a new one (after years of using Firefox after I gave up on IE for similar UI bollocks) - and at least, if I can't stop Nanny's ungrading, get it back to where she can use it.

Edit: Nevermind, just reinstalled version 56 and it seems fine.



So, long term solution (since I doubt Firefox is going to fix there [excrement] in any reasonable time frame, if ever): replacement suggestions? I want a browser, with a history sidebar like Firefox's current one, ideally with the same sort of options like the older version of FF had on a new tab; but the history sidebar (i.e. sorted by date and website) is the primary deal-breaker (and why I went TO FF several years ago.

[factotum]

There are alternative browsers based on older versions of the Firefox source code, Aotrs Commander? e.g. Seamonkey. I've not used them myself, but seems to me if you want something that works like an older version of Firefox, that's the first place to look.

[veti]

I had it update itself, without warning, on one of my machines.

Don't like.

Speed is simply not an issue. I don't think I've ever visited a website where the time taken for my browser to render the page was a significant factor. When I have to wait for things, approximately 100% of the time it's because elements are slow to download. Quantum does nothing (that I've noticed) to help that.

What is an issue, however, is that now there's no space between the top edge of the tabs and the top of the browser window itself. So I can't grab the top edge of the window to drag it around the screen. Whoever thought of that one, needs a good slapping.

[Avilan the Grey]

Honestly surprised some people don't surf with the window maximized. That said.. I find plenty of clickable space to drag when I tried.
Regarding font sizes... Huh. Never noticed. I run 1080 p on an 17 inch laptop and I didn't notice a,font size change.
I don't use the bookmark bar though, on any browser ever, I use the bookmark menu and the speed dial only.

[Aotrs Commander]

Regarding font sizes... Huh. Never noticed. I run 1080 p on an 17 inch laptop and I didn't notice a,font size change.
I don't use the bookmark bar though, on any browser ever, I use the bookmark menu and the speed dial only.

I don't use the bookmarks either, I use the history sidebar (where stuff is sorted by date and website) as opposed to the othery history doofer (where the sidebar is another click away). (Because they DIDN'T bother to have a button for the former.)

The buttons are TINY on a 1920x1080 screen. And there is no option to have large icon+text like with the old one (with Classic Theme Restorer or other options) (which is what I have - and more importanly, Nanny has to have),to make the buttons bigger so she freaking' see them. Heck, it would be better for Nanny if they had added the option to make the buttons even bigger than at current.

Spoiler: Current 56Browser set-up by way of illustration

Show

I don't have the history sidebar open all the time, but a fair portion of it.

Nanny has the same set-up (by necessity, since I have to be able to tech-support her), but she does have the boomark bar permentenly, on the basis that is the easest way she can have access to her email.

But I think think point is Avilan, neither I nor you are a 90-year old housebound grandmother who is blind in one eye and struggles to see with the other; and neither are the coders, nor do they have grandmothers, apparently. You - and theorhetically (preferences aside) I are basically clearly the only people they considered when they made that user interface.

As I said, what infuriates me most of all is the complete lack of the designers even CONSIDERING the full breadth of the people that might use it and then going "oh, um, we'll fix it in months...?" as if people struggling was a surprise.

(And no, them saying there a work around a tech-savvy person has to faff with is not a good excuse, because again, to implement it, you have to be at least semi-computer literate.)

I don't have legions of addons (Classic Theme Restorer was basically it), I don't care about the speed within a reasonable degree, I just want a damn UI that is clear and easy to navigate for both my own work and so Nanny can actually use it. (And woe betide if Mum - who had fibro-mialgia and struggles to remember how to do things - has to use the main computer if the UI keeps changing.) So the UI is the primary and indeed only major consideration a browser has as far as I'm concerned. Hell, I'd simply stay on 56 forever if not for the security issues.

There are alternative browsers based on older versions of the Firefox source code, Aotrs Commander? e.g. Seamonkey. I've not used them myself, but seems to me if you want something that works like an older version of Firefox, that's the first place to look.

Noted. I'll be looking into options over the next few days (I am having my holiday for the next four days, dammit, faffinf with a browser can wait a little bit...), so that is at least a place to start.

[Blackhawk748]

It updated, i am not happy with the layout. I dont like that the tabs im not using are frelling purple, i dont like that they are hard and squared off and i am extremely annoyed that the "Home" and Refresh buttons are now on the left side of my URL Bar. For...reasons.

Seriously,. why did you move those? They where on the right for years!

[Aotrs Commander]

It updated, i am not happy with the layout. I dont like that the tabs im not using are frelling purple, i dont like that they are hard and squared off and i am extremely annoyed that the "Home" and Refresh buttons are now on the left side of my URL Bar. For...reasons.

Seriously,. why did you move those? They where on the right for years!

You can - at the very least - move the few icons that HAVE bothered to provide you with around; I think it was right-click the bar and select customise and then drag.

[halfeye]

Yeah, popped up last night.

Had to get rid of all their garbage again, like the last time they did this. I don't care either way about the squared tabs, they should just leave them either way and forget them. Finding the refresh button was a hassle, there was no need to move that, the junk they replaced it with is useless.

On the whole, 2 out of 10.

[factotum]

I dont like that the tabs im not using are frelling purple

That's actually a good point--is there any way to change the colour of the tab bar in Firefox Quantum? Nearly everything else on my screen has a white title bar since that seems to be the Windows 10 standard, I don't know why Firefox chooses to be different.

[Toastkart]

I'm with everyone else in saying that the ui changes are hardly worth any minimal upgrade there might be in speed.

A few of the things that have me scratching my head are:
adding new bookmarks button is tied to the address bar for reasons unknown and is uncustomizably on the right side.
UI in general and font size in particular are too small.
Stop/refresh are on the same button and can't be separated.
No option for icon and text
can't remove unwanted items on bookmarks menu (mobile bookmarks, subscribe, etc.), probably others too but that's the one that comes to mind.

Now, to be fair, I am a long-time user of the classic theme restorer. Which is to say I really don't know how long some of these ui changes have been a thing. The fact that the classic restorer is so commonly used should tell mozilla to include those options by default.

[Binks]

That's actually a good point--is there any way to change the colour of the tab bar in Firefox Quantum? Nearly everything else on my screen has a white title bar since that seems to be the Windows 10 standard, I don't know why Firefox chooses to be different.

I would assume their color depends on your theme, so go browsing through the theme list (under addons) for one you like? I've been run a space theme for years that worked fine with Quantum and didn't notice any purple tabs, so it's probably just something that changed in the default theme.

[factotum]

I would assume their color depends on your theme, so go browsing through the theme list (under addons) for one you like?

Ah, I've never looked at that because until now I've always been happy with the default theme, but I selected the "Light" version and it looks much better--thanks!

[Blackhawk748]

Ah, I've never looked at that because until now I've always been happy with the default theme, but I selected the "Light" version and it looks much better--thanks!

Oh thank god, its not purple anymore

[factotum]

I just noticed something. For some reason, when my laptop upgraded to Firefox the title bar for the Firefox window was switched on, and the tab bar is its old light-coloured self when it's like that. It's only when the title bar is switched off that it goes the dark gooey version by default.

[Avilan the Grey]

Regarding size: yeah, more adaption options are good.
To call the buttons tiny though... I have not used Firefox since... God 5 year maybe? I have jumped between Chrome and Opera (which is based on Chrome) and the buttons are the same size as that. I guess that's why I didn't notice.

Regarding colors: I use the Dark, not the Light, but yes, the default theme is not the best.

[snowblizz]

So does anyone know how to get mroe than 2 rows off pinned "tabs" on the startpage?

Because I liked having my usual suspects show up when I start.

[Avilan the Grey]

So does anyone know how to get mroe than 2 rows off pinned "tabs" on the startpage?

Because I liked having my usual suspects show up when I start.

ATM... No. I am sure some extension will fix that though. There were tons of Speed Dial extensions to the old engine for Firefox after all.

[veti]

Honestly surprised some people don't surf with the window maximized.

And that's the problem, right there. Developers get used to their own way of doing things, and forget that others do it differently. This is why serious software companies do usability testing.

But not Mozilla, apparently. Which is sad.

That said.. I find plenty of clickable space to drag when I tried.

Sure, there are places you can click. But by far the easiest place used to be the top edge of the window. Now that's gone.

I wouldn't mind if only there was some *point* to the change. But seriously, what is gained by eliminating that area? The bar is still the same height, so it's not about space.

[Excession]

What is an issue, however, is that now there's no space between the top edge of the tabs and the top of the browser window itself. So I can't grab the top edge of the window to drag it around the screen. Whoever thought of that one, needs a good slapping.

Open "Customize" from the main menu. At the bottom of the tab there is am options for "Title Bar" and "Drag Space". Turn on whichever one you prefer to get the top of window drag handle back. In many ways (if you weren't using extensions) I think the interface is now more configurable than it was, and the controls to do that are all in one place now, which is an improvement. Except the "page actions", which for some reason can only be changed by right clicking on them; hopefully they fix that.

I like that they've got a real main menu back. I was never a fan of the icon grid menu. I think I have noticed some pages rendering being faster, which is always good.

[halfeye]

It's crashing.

<edit>

Now it's stopped ...

<edit2>

What I was trying to do was get rid of "other bookmarks". I'm out of space for bookmarks, so I've been putting them in folders, now (a couple of weeks ago, so #56?) the folders changed to grey which is unhelpful, and there are three whole lines taken up by bookmarks toolbar, bookmarks menu, and other bookmarks, which is two lines too many. So I tried putting all the bookmarks in other bookmarks, and then other bookmarks into bookmarks menu (I've since realised that didn't actually save any vertical space even if it worked, but before that realisation I tried doing it). What that did was duplicate everything in other bookmarks, and crash a lot.

[Avilan the Grey]

And that's the problem, right there. Developers get used to their own way of doing things, and forget that others do it differently. This is why serious software companies do usability testing.

But not Mozilla, apparently. Which is sad.

---

Sure, there are places you can click. But by far the easiest place used to be the top edge of the window. Now that's gone.
I wouldn't mind if only there was some *point* to the change. But seriously, what is gained by eliminating that area? The bar is still the same height, so it's not about space.

Since most people have the browser window maximized (that's why they invented Tabbed browsing after all; it's easier than alt-tabbing between browser windows) maybe nobody in the usability testing actually ran it non-maximized? Or it simply isn't an issie any of the testers thought of? Especially since you have a lot of obvious space to click and drag between the "+" sign (new tab) and the "-" (minimize window). For example.
Mozzilla have worked on this one for a while. At least two years. It's a completely new engine and the first updated interface for a long time. So I think it's more that nonody in the testing group is using it like you are.