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2017-11-09, 06:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
If Elan and the other members of the Order were converted to 5e, how would they react to it? Especially Elan that all of a sudden became a full spellcaster with Cutting Words?
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2017-11-09, 06:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2017-11-10, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Dunno, all of those concentration spells...
Incidentally, I imagine V would react very poorly, considering you can't stack 5 or 6 buff spells on top of flight anymore.
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2017-11-15, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Same way how they have reacted to being converted to 3.5.
Spoiler
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2017-11-17, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Don't even ask how 1e bards worked... Thanks to a throwaway line (Haley saying her father was a 1e thief) it is reasonable to believe that Tarquin lived under 1e rules and based his opinion of bards on that.
A 1e bard has 5-7 levels of fighter, 5-9 levels of thief, and the rest in Bard.
AD&D has these weird rules for playing with two classes. I never saw them used in tabletop play, but they were useful in optimizing Baldur's Gate characters (especially for BG2). You need high stats in you original class and higher in the class you move to (15 and 17 from memory). You advance in the first class as normal, then you drop everything and become a first level character (you keep your old hit points) and aren't allowed to use *any* of you old skills (not sure if your bard fights as a 7th level fighter or 1st level thief after the first switch, I'd rule 7th fighter but only thief weapons and leather) until you hit the old level in which you are allowed to at least carry [there may be limitations] your old equipment and use your old skills.
Note that AD&D had more exponential xp requirements (also thieves advanced the fastest of all classes) so your party pretty much had to carry you for a level or two (this made it unpopular in tabletop play). Presumably Tarquin had bad experiences carrying the bard.
I'd assume that for levels 9-12 or so, bards were pretty impressive. Of course Elan and co are a bit beyond that now, so I'd expect that 16th level bards are starting to be less concerned about their old skills (and I wouldn't count on bard skills overcoming this). So Elan wouldn't be happy with being an 1e bard (well, who knows. The rest of the party wouldn't be happy dragging a 1e bard around at 16th level).
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2017-11-17, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Beverly, MA, USA
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Tarquin actually didn't have a negative opinion of bards; that was Nale misinterpreting his words. (Panel 9.)
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2017-11-17, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
1st-level thief. I'm not sure where you're seeing ambiguity, given that you already noted you can't use any of your previous class's skills, just its hit points; fighting is a fighter's primary skill. A dual-classed 7th-level fighter->1st level thief is a first-level thief with a lot of hit points, in every particular.
That said, while Tarquin was used for earlier-edition jokes (notably about female drow), I think it unlikely that he was talking about previous-edition bards in anything he said to Nale that wasn't a "back in my day" anecdote.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-11-18, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Back to Elan in 5e: he can't have that prestige class Julio taught him. (That would stink).
If he's a lore bard, he'd be a lot closer to the wizard he wanted to be/multi class into.
If he's a valor bard, he can't use his Cha the way the prestige class can, which would stink.
He'd have better spells. He could discuss with V which spells to get for Magical Secrets.
He'd still be a decent party face, in terms of high charisma
He'd still be a fine fool/buffoon with his Int dump stat.
Skills/jack of all trades/expertise like things ... should work out OK
I don't have the latest "College of Blades" info since my XGtE has yet to arrive, but that might allow him to get closer to that prestige class in terms of being able to fight.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-11-18 at 03:27 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-11-19, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
I missed that. I suppose that is similar to the failure of wizards to utterly dominate (and instead take up blasting. Can't remember the playgrounder who insisted they would take over). Certainly divine casters should have similar abilities (they manipulate *gods*), although presumably the inherent divine balance would force things back to normal. I don't think other classes have similar abilities to break the game (outside of directly broken classes like hulking hurler and planar ranger).
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2017-11-22, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Why not? The whole thing can be finessed (ahem) into a cantrip (variation of Cutting Words) that very few people know, and some skills and a feat or Alternate Class Feature (+CHA or +Proficiency to unarmoured AC). Really all we've seen of the prestige class is the Cutting Words, Skill: Genre Savvy, and the unarmoured bonus. Works just fine.
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2017-11-22, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Why not is because 5e does not have prestige classes. (thanks be to Ao). Then again, Rich could port it over with a wave of the pen.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-12-04, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
'Dashing Swordsman' as a prestige class doesn't exist in 5e but the nearly identical Swashbuckler Roguish Archetype does and Elan could easily be a multi-class Bard (Lore)/Rogue (Swashbuckler).
Elan would not have been eligible to be a Bard under any edition before 3.0. As wumpus noted in 1e Bards had to be Druids first and Druids had a minimum 12 Wisdom. In 2e Bards where a much more normal class - the 3.0 and later Bard is a reworking of the 2e Bard - but they still required a minimum 13(!) in Intelligence.
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2017-12-04, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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2017-12-04, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Nope.
In 1e, Bards had to be Fighters / Thieves first. They could then finally become a bard.
Originally Posted by 1e PHB page 117Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-04 at 04:20 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-12-04, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
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2017-12-04, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: How would Elan react to having been converted to 5e?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society