Time and these quadstalt level 50 games...

[Westhart]

...that I keep seeing, how do you lot have enough time to make characters, and how in the hell would you make something challenging? I mean gestalt is one thing, quadstalt is... crazy? So yeah, how would you DM such a game and how do you have time to draw up NPC/PC's for the game?

[Jormengand]

When you get to level 50, you usually just have a lot of the same stuff you had at level 21, only more of it. You just need to make sure you're adding all the numbers together properly and you have a list of all the stuff you can do. Yes, it takes a while, but not as long as you might think.

[Westhart]

When you get to level 50, you usually just have a lot of the same stuff you had at level 21, only more of it. You just need to make sure you're adding all the numbers together properly and you have a list of all the stuff you can do. Yes, it takes a while, but not as long as you might think.

Hmm, it seems to me that they would, but then I am used to gestalt that usually top out at around the late 30's, and have never actually played a quad-stalt (had to drop out of the one I was going to join due to the fact that I'll not be on too much over break and I didn't have the time to make the character). So, playing it might not be too bad, but it seems to me that it would be hell to DM such a game...

[Fouredged Sword]

Level 50 quadstalt games are pretty freeform and are more about the epic story than rules or rolls. Your character sheet gives form to what you can do, but most rolls are more about auto-pass or auto-fail than rolling. When you have +100 to a roll 1d20 isn't important.

[Westhart]

Level 50 quadstalt games are pretty freeform and are more about the epic story than rules or rolls. Your character sheet gives form to what you can do, but most rolls are more about auto-pass or auto-fail than rolling. When you have +100 to a roll 1d20 isn't important.

Well, I must admit from that viewpoint it would make it a tad more easier to DM

[Eldan]

At least on the forum, I've also never seen one last longer than two pages. Most die in recruitment. I've submitted a character or too, mainly as build exercises for crazy ****.

[Westhart]

At least on the forum, I've also never seen one last longer than two pages. Most die in recruitment. I've submitted a character or too, mainly as build exercises for crazy ****.

Hmm, fair enough then.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Epic characters get very little past level 21. Just bigger numbers and access to more feats. Even gestalting them several times over won't really get you much above what you'd get pre-epic, aside from higher HD, unless you're multiclassing so you actually get new abilities from the 1-20 range.

Let's say you have a level 21 wizard vs a level 1,000 fighter with level 21 WBL (so it doesn't swing the equation too much). So long as you're not using spells that allow SR and saves, it's pretty easy to curbstomp said fighter with little to do.

[Westhart]

Epic characters get very little past level 21. Just bigger numbers and access to more feats. Even gestalting them several times over won't really get you much above what you'd get pre-epic, aside from higher HD, unless you're multiclassing so you actually get new abilities from the 1-20 range.

Let's say you have a level 21 wizard vs a level 1,000 fighter with level 21 WBL (so it doesn't swing the equation too much). So long as you're not using spells that allow SR and saves, it's pretty easy to curbstomp said fighter with little to do.

Hmm, the bold may be my problem when I make one "oh, that looks nice."

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hmm, the bold may be my problem when I make one "oh, that looks nice."

I like using multiple psionic manifesting classes (so the power point pools stack) and then using some of the ways to stack and multiply the manifester levels together. You don't even need epic manifesting to remain viable, as the vast majority of powers have unlimited augmentation scaling; the ones that don't (such as tornado blast) really shouldn't have dumb augmentation caps, but in that case, there's always metapsionic usage, which is especially good once you can spend your psionic focus on multiple effects via epic feats. Do note that unlike with metamagic, you can use any given metapsionic feat multiple times on a manifestation, though some (such as Maximize) don't actually do anything. Empower, however...

[Westhart]

I like using multiple psionic manifesting classes (so the power point pools stack) and then using some of the ways to stack and multiply the manifester levels together. You don't even need epic manifesting to remain viable, as the vast majority of powers have unlimited augmentation scaling; the ones that don't (such as tornado blast) really shouldn't have dumb augmentation caps, but in that case, there's always metapsionic usage, which is especially good once you can spend your psionic focus on multiple effects via epic feats. Do note that unlike with metamagic, you can use any given metapsionic feat multiple times on a manifestation, though some (such as Maximize) don't actually do anything. Empower, however...

Well, I have to add complete psionics to my reading list... along with binders in ToM... and Incarnum

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, I have to add complete psionics to my reading list... along with binders in ToM... and Incarnum

Remember that Complete Psionic isn't the original psionics book for 3.5; that's the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

As far as stacking goes, the mind mage PrC from Dragon #313 allows this, and it's exceptionally good in gestalt and epic both.

Also, binders and incarnum go really well with psionics. http://archive.wizards.com/default.a.../psm/20060217a

[Westhart]

Remember that Complete Psionic isn't the original psionics book for 3.5; that's the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

I thought that the complete was the 3.5 update? I'll have to see if my brother has the other book then.

As far as stacking goes, the mind mage PrC from Dragon #313 allows this, and it's exceptionally good in gestalt and epic both.

Also, binders and incarnum go really well with psionics. http://archive.wizards.com/default.a.../psm/20060217a

Cool, welp, I'll have to read those then throw some binders/psions/whatever incarnum(s) are at my PC's

[Fouredged Sword]

Another good prc epic is metamind. The lost manifester levels are meaningless at level 50 and the ability to have UNLIMITIED POWER is cool. Note the nomad power that lets you extend the duration of effects for 1 round and realize that it allows you to maintain font of power (and every other buff in the game) 24/7.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Another good prc epic is metamind. The lost manifester levels are meaningless at level 50 and the ability to have UNLIMITIED POWER is cool. Note the nomad power that lets you extend the duration of effects for 1 round and realize that it allows you to maintain font of power (and every other buff in the game) 24/7.

I'd rather spend three levels on illithid savant and get good abilities on all three levels than waste nine on metamind before getting the one good ability at tenth.