Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

[Lemmy]

My friend just told me DBS ends in March... Is that true?

Huh... I don't know how I feel about that... The series does have over 120 episodes already... But still, it ending "so soon" feels... Unsatisfying?

I guess because it never felt like a great (or even good) series, just mediocre at best, it ending now feels like it was a waste of time and opportunity. Not only that, but despite all flaws... It was still nice knowing that a new episode of a show with Goku and friends was coming out every week, even if it wasn't very good.

[Rater202]

The exact wording of the announcement said something along the lines of "it's not like the show is ending."

So it's probably a hiatus.

[Douglas]

The exact wording of the announcement said something along the lines of "it's not like the show is ending."

So it's probably a hiatus.

I'd guess they need time to let the manga build up a lead again. If they've caught up with the manga, the alternatives to hiatus are filler, drawing things out absurdly slow, or branching off into their own separate continuation.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'd guess they need time to let the manga build up a lead again. If they've caught up with the manga, the alternatives to hiatus are filler, drawing things out absurdly slow, or branching off into their own separate continuation.

The Dragon Ball Super manga is an adaptation of the anime.

And not even a very faithful adaptation, really...

[Mato]

I'd guess they need time to let the manga build up a lead again. If they've caught up with the manga, the alternatives to hiatus are filler, drawing things out absurdly slow, or branching off into their own separate continuation.

DBS manga runs behind the anime through.

DBS has always been planned to be a short lived run, initially just three arcs I believe, but it keeps getting extended and it keeps getting more absurd. It needs to end, at least the part where Goku serves as the primary protagonist. Maybe it needs to jump ahead of GT and focus on Goku Jr's son's adventure.

[Drascin]

DBS manga runs behind the anime through.

DBS has always been planned to be a short lived run, initially just three arcs I believe, but it keeps getting extended and it keeps getting more absurd. It needs to end, at least the part where Goku serves as the primary protagonist. Maybe it needs to jump ahead of GT and focus on Goku Jr's son's adventure.

Only if Goku Jr's son is exactly Goku but smaller. Otherwise fans will riot. Dragonball fans have traditionally reacted to attempts to change the protagonist role away from Goku with fire and knives.

[Rater202]

The way I understand it is that the Anime is being made by Toei with Toriyama's notes and input, while the Manga is done by Toyotaro(sp?) working directly from Toriyama's notes--Toyiama's input is more direct, but there's less of it, and the Anime is considered to be the "officialial" canon.

@Mato: It can't skip past GT. Becuase Super and GT are seperate timelines and stuff in Super invalidates the possibility of stuff in GT happening inthe Super Timeline.

Like the Pilaf Gang being small children and the fact that they've apparently given up being evil and live at the capsul corporation means that elderly Pilaf wouldn't steal the Black Star Dragon Balls(which until confirmed otherwise don't exist in the Super Timeline) and accidentally wish Goku into a kid due to not being old enough and no longer being evil.

Also, the existence of Blue, UIO, Vegeta's Beyond Blue form, and anything else that pops up in the Tournament of Power really invalidates the need for SSJ4.

Not to mention that so far, there's been no mention of too many wishes on Earth's Dragon Balls being dangerous(to the point where nobody, exactly, got told, off for being selfish in that one episode) and we've got far more wishes in slightly less time than GTs "Seven Wishes in like, half a century is two much."

Frieza is far too powerful for his role in GT, and now that we've actually seen Canon Hell(as opposed to Fillar and Movie Hell,) it's highly unlikely that Dr. Gero and D. Myu would meet down their, let alone be able to build a Machine Mutant version of 17.

In Theory, Baby might still exist, since there hasn't exactly been anything in Super that contradicts his existance other than maybe SupremeKai's comments about a lack of planets with sentient life(and how apparently noneof them have strong fighters, which probably means no General Rildo,) but basically everything else from GT has been contradicted by Super.

Personally, I want a Time Skip to just after the End of Z and have an arc where Goku has like, Taken Uub into the Hyperbolic Time chamber and is thus unavailable and little four-year-old Pan gets to be the hero.

And I want her to have her Father's temper. Like, Mister Satan is getting the crap beaten out of him, Pan sees, freaks out, screams at the bad guy to "Leave my Grandpa alone!" in a call back to Gohan wrecking Raditz's ship, goes somekind of SSJ(Maybe Universe 7 equivelent of Kale's Berserker, since Super!Pan has some similarities to Baby Broly) and wrecks the Bad Guy.

[Lemmy]

I'm completely fine with GT being written out of existence... There wasn't a single good idea in that show that wasn't ruined by sloppy execution and/or drowned in an ocean of bad ideas.

[Lord Raziere]

Spoiler: Episode 124

Show

Gohan's Last Stand:
So, Gohan rings out or lie? Got it.

"Dyspo! Lets settle this!" yes, because Gohan and Dyspo has had so much interaction with each other Like all the times they never interacted before.

oh no, Jiren is being pushed. Its not as if he hasn't shown a greater level of power or whatever. face it, he is still playing with them, even both Vegeta and Goku are going all out.

yeah, just as I though, he is still unscathed. Jiren just seems to an infinite "I am not left-handed" moment. just when you think you've gotten to a point when you can face him on equal terms he reveals that it didn't hurt at all and can still beat you easily.

and Dypso becomes even more one with the speed force as he attacks freeza, and I'm still bored because Freeza has gone golden yet, so it means Dyspo is still doomed.

But wait, isntead of going Golden, Freeza makes a deal with Dyspo: if U11 promises to resurrect him with the Super Dragon Balls, he will help them out. oh no, theres the betrayal. he is playing both sides. U11 could fulfill the promise by just resurrecting everyone who got erased, he is playing right on their sense of justice, meaning no matter who wins, Freeza comes back.

Krillin, Piccolo, you have WAY too much faith in Freeza for people he MURDERED OR SHOT.

but then Dyspo refuses his offer and Freeza goes golden anyways to knock him out. well yeah, thats what you get from the Justice Universe. oh well, damned if you do, damned if you don't.....

but Dypso gets even faster with a purple aura. the hell?

and then Gohan joins the fight. kay.

and then Gohan comes with a plan that gets Dyspo to be a fair fight, kay.

and then sacrifices him self to out Dyspo. well, I wish that Gohan could've had a better chance to shine, but I guess thats good. guess he'll just always be the third best warrior behind Vegeta and Goku. :/

Tournament Status:
U7: 4/10
U11: 2/10
U3: Erased.
U4: Erased
U2: Erased.
U6: Erased.
U10: Erased.
U9: Erased.
Total: 6 fighters remaining.

preview: next episode is Freeza and 17 Vs. Toppo going full power as the next God of Destruction. ok, that'll be awesome, hopefully. probably. I guessing 17 will be the one to the get ringed out of the fight so that Freeza can beat Toppo and wait for his opportunity with Goku, Vegeta and Jiren.

and yeah, I'm pretty sure I've got Freeza's motivations down, he is totally going to swoop in, get the wish and somehow come out of this in a better position than when he started, given his offer to Dyspo.

[Delicious Taffy]

Okay, so as of next episode, everybody's going all-out, yes? Nobody's holding anything else back for no valid reason? There's almost literally no more time left for these shenanigans. We've got what, five minutes left? I wanna see some blood.

[Lord Raziere]

Okay, so as of next episode, everybody's going all-out, yes? Nobody's holding anything else back for no valid reason? There's almost literally no more time left for these shenanigans. We've got what, five minutes left? I wanna see some blood.

Hopefully. either that or Jiren will keep going "psyche, I'm outgokuing Goku in how I'm hiding my power level." until the bitter end.

Edit: also don't count on blood being spilled ever, this is being aired on sunday mornings in Japan, so unfortunately its subject to more restrictions than DBZ which was aired at night. DBZ could show the blood because of the airtime, DB Super can't.

[Lemmy]

Okay, so as of next episode, everybody's going all-out, yes? Nobody's holding anything else back for no valid reason? There's almost literally no more time left for these shenanigans. We've got what, five minutes left? I wanna see some blood.

Well... We all know how long 5 minutes is in Dragon Ball.

[Rater202]

Well... We all know how long 5 minutes is in Dragon Ball.

Half an hour after the five-minute warning, still, four minutes to go.

Frieza: "I have the weirdest case of deja vu right now."

[Lemmy]

Seeing the preview, it seems we still have another 1 or 2 episodes before finally getting to the final showdown against Jiren...

On a separate note... I never mentioned it, but I really, really like the current intro song. It's so much hype! Specially the final part after the "Let's go to the next world" line! It makes genuinely excited!

[Anteros]

Seeing the preview, it seems we still have another 1 or 2 episodes before finally getting to the final showdown against Jiren...

On a separate note... I never mentioned it, but I really, really like the current intro song. It's so much hype! Specially the final part after the "Let's go to the next world" line! It makes genuinely excited!

I'm pretty sure there are 7 episodes left total. So I wouldn't expect the big show down for a few more. Probably 5 episodes from now or so.

[The Troubadour]

You know, I have the distinct feeling Frieza faked being unable to maintain the energy "cage".

[khadgar567]

You know, I have the distinct feeling Frieza faked being unable to maintain the energy "cage".

agreed it suits him like a glove

[Phexar]

You know, I have the distinct feeling Frieza faked being unable to maintain the energy "cage".

I did suspect that too at first, but then I thought that it would rely on him knowing that Gohan would grab Dyspo and sacrifice himself to stop him, otherwise he'd end up in the exact same frustrating position as before with Dyspo dashing around everywhere unable to be hit and gradually wearing them down. So I do think sending out the constant stream of energy did exhaust him.

[The Troubadour]

I think he gambled on Gokan recognising that was their best move, yes.

[khadgar567]

I did suspect that too at first, but then I thought that it would rely on him knowing that Gohan would grab Dyspo and sacrifice himself to stop him, otherwise he'd end up in the exact same frustrating position as before with Dyspo dashing around everywhere unable to be hit and gradually wearing them down. So I do think sending out the constant stream of energy did exhaust him.

a bit maybe dude was fresh as beginning of the tournament. He probably exaggerated his role so gohan gets the idea of sacrificing himself. which makes him one step closer to win the tournament and wishing to be lord of all universes

[HolyDraconus]

He said his grip slipped. Not that he was too tired to maintain it. It. Slipped.

[Lord Raziere]

You know, I have the distinct feeling Frieza faked being unable to maintain the energy "cage".

it wouldn't surprise me. Freeza has somehow taken a level in "cunning mastermind" given all that he is doing. Like, the old Freeza would just be blatantly after immortality, or hatching a petty revenge scheme that would be stupidly and pointlessly short term given the tournament or something like that.

But he isn't doing that. Gohan is the one who was watching him the most and was the most suspicious that he was going to betray them all. and now he is out of the ring, unable to do anything about it if Freeza DOES decide to do it, right after Dyspo rejected a plan to bring back to life.

he is thinking long term. he is acting ambiguous enough that no one knows what he is up to, and Frost, Cabba, Dyspo and Gohan have all fallen to him in some way. three stand up heroic guys who'd interfere with him if he decided to something evil and one alt-counterpart who'd either interfere with his plans to do them himself or screw up trying to help him. he has somehow become a masterful player of the game, and thats frightening.

meanwhile he has intervened to keep Goku in twice. the guy so focused on battle and so trusting that he wouldn't think anything more of Freeza's actions while also being the strongest. the only loose ends are 17, Vegeta and Toppo. those three are all smart enough to see he is up to something if they got the time to think about it.

[Douglas]

The old Frieza had never met anyone he couldn't beat through direct application of sheer overwhelming power - power that he hadn't had to work for because an accident of genetics gave it to him free. He never bothered planning and scheming because he never needed to. Then Goku beat him, and he went straight into revenge while following his old habits because his ego and emotions just couldn't accept that he was outclassed, and his father and underlings all supported that.

New Frieza has gone through years of enforced idleness where all he could do was think. He had been defeated by a Supersaiyan, not once but twice, and the second time with absurdly casual ease. His emotions had time to yield to reason, and he couldn't deny that there were now people he could not deal with by strength alone.

He's spent years thinking and scheming, waiting for an opportunity to put it all into practice, and now his opportunity has come.

[Lord Raziere]

But I think we should pay attention to something else: the Grand Priest saying he will give Zen-Oh a better god pad "next time".

This is important and implies a lot of things

Namely that there will be more tournaments of power. I think that "Zen-oh restores the universes and allows this tournament to happen over and over again but without the world destruction" is pretty much going to happen. Its sounding more and more that the Grand Priest will manipulate Zen-Oh into doing it without using the wish then Freeza will use the Super Dragon Ball wish to bring himself back to life than go to Universe 9 to get god of destruction status. The tournament of power has been quite an unusual arc for Dragon ball in general so, it would make sense for it have quite the unusual ending.

[lord_khaine]

I think someone already came up with the theory that this is the Grand priest trying to teach Zeno not to break his toys?
And it is starting to seem more and more likely. At least i do think the Grand Priest is giving subtle hints in this regard. Like the comment about a better God Pad next time.
It would now be easy to point out how boring the next Tournament would be. With so few contestants.

[Devonix]

I think someone already came up with the theory that this is the Grand priest trying to teach Zeno not to break his toys?
And it is starting to seem more and more likely. At least i do think the Grand Priest is giving subtle hints in this regard. Like the comment about a better God Pad next time.
It would now be easy to point out how boring the next Tournament would be. With so few contestants.

Yep and I've never once wavered from this viewpoint.

[Phexar]

He said his grip slipped. Not that he was too tired to maintain it. It. Slipped.

Yeah it was sort odd, we did have this dialogue mid-fight:

Frieza: Dammit what is taking so long? This attack is quite draining, you know?! Your job is to defeat him. Hurry up!
Krillin: Oh no! At this rate, Frieza's stamina won't last.

Which would seem to imply he was going to tire out. And then Frieza just stops firing out the cage, then collapses after and states 'I lost my grip!'. So either way it looked to me like he was wearing down and either couldn't keep maintaining it or the exhaustion from using caused him to falter and fail to keep the focus up.

[HolyDraconus]

Yeah it was sort odd, we did have this dialogue mid-fight:



Which would seem to imply he was going to tire out. And then Frieza just stops firing out the cage, then collapses after and states 'I lost my grip!'. So either way it looked to me like he was wearing down and either couldn't keep maintaining it or the exhaustion from using caused him to falter and fail to keep the focus up.

The issue I have with that though is that the last time he let something slip it was on purpose. Nothing he has shown changes that fact.

[Jayngfet]

The obvious point is if his universe wins but everyone else is exhausted and injured he can just kill them off when they get home if they don't bring him back ASAP.

EDIT:

As for Super rejiggering itself around, it kind of needs to. It's bumping up against the canon Toriyama wrote for Online as is and that's very obviously because it's paying attention to people who aren't Goku once in a blue moon. The current timeline basically establishes that nobody, not Gohan, not Tien, nobody, does anything of substance until Goku and Vegeta are dead, at least in the main timeline.

We're at the year when Future Trunks became a Super Saiyan and got a bit of height on him. But Kid Trunks has had extremely limited development. Goten's transition into a ladies man is basically just academic knowledge at this point. The idea that either of them would develop sword skills matters about as much as whatever happened to Gohan's old sword people forgot about.

Tien got a school to give him something to do, but Tien wasn't supposed to actually do that until again, Goku died. It's a cool concept I really like but the writers aren't doing much with it because they'd rather go through even more Super Saiyan forms. Yamcha getting rejected in the tournament could lead in interesting directions we're probably never going to see much off for his character. Marron is hinted as being surprisingly strong but we'll get exactly nothing out of her.

The thing about previous arcs in Z is even if Goku saved everything, it at least gave everyone else a moment to actually do something. Now it's all Goku in a way Z never was.

[Lord Raziere]

The obvious point is if his universe wins but everyone else is exhausted and injured he can just kill them off when they get home if they don't bring him back ASAP.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeh, thats a stretch to me. Goku is very good at stamina management and recovery, and they'd have enough rest in transit time, that and the two Androids have infinite energy and fight on par with Goku, and the fact that most of them would have rest from getting eliminated, plus Beerus himself having just sat on his ass the entire time and still full of energy? yeah there is too much risk for Freeza to pull that, even if all ten of them WERE tired because Beerus is still incredibly strong and could hakai his soul out of existence. Maybe if Freeza took Supreme Kai hostage, but Goku could still instant transmission around that, he'd totally push the limits of his stamina to do that.

I'm just not seeing it. And thats assuming Whis doesn't involve himself.