Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

[leafman]

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Did we watch the same episode? Toppo clearly was trying to ring out Frieza, he only didn't because 17 smacked Frieza with that piece of rock and altered his trajectory. Even then it was a damn close thing, Frieza is literally on the edge about to fall out, if he get's too active while passed out, he'll roll right off the edge(on a side-note, that would be freaking hilarious, and perhaps the best way for Frieza to go out. Don't even give him the dignity of going out in a fight, let him roll right out while passed out, hehe). But yeah, Toppo definitely trying for the ring-outs. He also tried to ring out 17 before Frieza showed up and started pelting him with his little laser beams. They were engaged in that big beam struggle and 17 was right on the edge, remember?

So yeah, you can say that Jiren isn't trying, because he really isn't, he's had multiple chances and never took them, but Toppo certainly is going for the win.

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I remember. I also remember Toppo not going over and finishing the job while 17 ineffectually shot him with ki blasts and instead started going after 17 again. Frieza's attacks were hurting him when he was in the beam struggle with 17, so I get that he lost concentration there. But now, Frieza is KO'd and 17 can't touch him. He should be confirming his 'kill' rather than swatting at a fly

[Anteros]

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I remember. I also remember Toppo not going over and finishing the job while 17 ineffectually shot him with ki blasts and instead started going after 17 again. Frieza's attacks were hurting him when he was in the beam struggle with 17, so I get that he lost concentration there. But now, Frieza is KO'd and 17 can't touch him. He should be confirming his 'kill' rather than swatting at a fly

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What if he goes to finish the job on Frieza and 17 blasts that part of the stage out from under him? Maybe he's just being cautious.

Although...let's face it. Dragonball wouldn't be the same franchise at all if it weren't for overly arrogant characters doing stupid things and toying with their enemies. I think Trunks is the only main character in the entire series who never does this.

[Douglas]

Although...let's face it. Dragonball wouldn't be the same franchise at all if it weren't for overly arrogant characters doing stupid things and toying with their enemies. I think Trunks is the only main character in the entire series who never does this.

Trunks did it in his first appearance, when he fought Frieza. Sorry, I mean "fought". Wasn't much of a fight with how thoroughly Frieza got curb stomped, but Trunks stood there and let him attack three times just to demonstrate how much he was outclassed.

[Anteros]

Trunks did it in his first appearance, when he fought Frieza. Sorry, I mean "fought". Wasn't much of a fight with how thoroughly Frieza got curb stomped, but Trunks stood there and let him attack three times just to demonstrate how much he was outclassed.

Hmm...true enough. I stand corrected. I still think he does it much less than most though.

He doesn't do that in the manga btw. He just kills him right away.

[Drascin]

Hmm...true enough. I stand corrected. I still think he does it much less than most though.

He doesn't do that in the manga btw. He just kills him right away.

Also Trunks only did it the one time he was absolutely, postively certain he had the upper hand by such a massive degree that he literally couldn't lose - and he was right. Whenever there has been any doubt at all, Trunks generally goes in to kill. Which is certainly better than your average DB character.

[Gandariel]

What a great arc for 17.

After getting some pretty cool moments, we now see the limit of his powers as he fights an enemy that's clearly stated to be stronger than him, and he still manages to hold on trying to wait until time out.

If it weren't for Frieza he would have probably lost in the end, but he would have also left Toppo completely exhausted and easy to kick out, which is still a pretty decent result for him.

But, he didn't lose, and now the enemy is even stronger!

He's probably going to go down soon, but he very clearly had a badass run that most characters (ahem gohan ahem) would envy

[The Troubadour]

You know, biting off more than he can chew by overestimating himself and underestimating the enemy at the same time is classic Frieza, and his reactions this episode felt much more genuine than when he fought Dyspo last episode. But I still wonder if he somehow isn't still deceiving everyone? I mean, maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but he had to have some plan to deal with someone as strong as Jiren other than just throw Goku at him and let both tire themselves out, right?

[Xihirli]

You know, biting off more than he can chew by overestimating himself and underestimating the enemy at the same time is classic Frieza, and his reactions this episode felt much more genuine than when he fought Dyspo last episode. But I still wonder if he somehow isn't still deceiving everyone? I mean, maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but he had to have some plan to deal with someone as strong as Jiren other than just throw Goku at him and let both tire themselves out, right?

Well, no. This is the first time he's ever encountered Jiren and he wasn't there either of the times Whis mentioned the possibility of a fighter stronger than a God of Destruction. He could very well have no plan at all other than the Goku thing.

[Anteros]

Sadly, I don't think we have enough time now for Frieza to be hatching some Machiavellian scheme. With as few episodes as we have left, I'm hoping the primary focus will shift to Goku and Vegeta.

[Douglas]

Whatever schemes Frieza might or might not have going, I'm pretty sure priority #1 is Frieza not getting erased and priority #2 is Frieza getting fully resurrected. If Universe 7 wins and Goku keeps his word, then both of those goals are achieved. Frieza certainly has no compunctions whatsoever about finding an alternative plan, but he's not going to take one unless it has odds at least comparable to playing it straight for meeting those objectives.

[Aotrs Commander]

Considering that (after re-watching the entirity of DBZA) I have spent quite a lot of time over the last few days watching clips of Super on Youtube, I really probably ought to get the DVDs. (The first two volumes of which are apparently now out in the UK.)

It'll mark the first time I've taken that much of an active interest in DB (aside from TFS), like ever. (I watched from about Frieza to part-way-through Buu when it was being shown on telly until they moved it to a channel I didn't get at the time.)



In all the clips I've been watching though, I have a new respect for Team Four Star, because not being as familar with it as likely probably everyone else on the thread, I did not fully appreciate how close the voice acting in TFS actually is.

[Rater202]

Considering that (after re-watching the entirity of DBZA) I have spent quite a lot of time over the last few days watching clips of Super on Youtube, I really probably ought to get the DVDs. (The first two volumes of which are apparently now out in the UK.)

It'll mark the first time I've taken that much of an active interest in DB (aside from TFS), like ever. (I watched from about Frieza to part-way-through Buu when it was being shown on telly until they moved it to a channel I didn't get at the time.)



In all the clips I've been watching though, I have a new respect for Team Four Star, because not being as familar with it as likely probably everyone else on the thread, I did not fully appreciate how close the voice acting in TFS actually is.

Lanipator has joked that that he just plays Cristopher Sabbat.

Also, Lani, Takka, Kaiser, and I think one other member have all had voicework for orrifical Dragon Ball Dubs and are handling the official dub of a thing called Hells.

Like, this is basically their job. They're real voice actors now.

[Aotrs Commander]

Lanipator has joked that that he just plays Cristopher Sabbat.

Also, Lani, Takka, Kaiser, and I think one other member have all had voicework for orrifical Dragon Ball Dubs

MasakoX, I think, at least in that they did that bit that got cut involving Hercule/Mr Satan's (I'm sorry, I'll always still think of him as the latter most, since that was how I first was introduced to the character!) movie of the Cell saga.

and are handling the official dub of a thing called Hells.

Like, this is basically their job. They're real voice actors now.

I know - not before time, either! I have appreciated their considerable talents - pretty much since I discovered Naruto Abridged (and thense to their other early works), just on the strength of their talent. (I mean, like, seriously, those guys have more raw cool voice talent packed away than a lot of actual cartoons!) I just hadn't ever fully twigged how sound-alike they were ON TOP OF all that talent (notably with the more secondary characters like the villains, whom my distant viewing I could not remember nearly so clearly, if at all.)

(Indirectly, actually, TFS introduced me to MLP, since it was while watching an abriged series LittleKuriboh mentioned that I first saw clips on season one and was like "eh? Is that a fan-created thing, because that looks pretty entertaining? Oh, no, it's an official show, well got to check that out, then...")

[Lord Raziere]

TFS also got me into Xenoverse, Dark Souls 3 and Dragon Ball FighterZ, and I'm thinking of trying Battle Chef Brigade based on Zito's playthrough of it, if only for the puzzle elements and the storyline.

They really got recognition for their talents with their Hells dub. glad to see them having something like that to work on

[Rater202]

MasakoX, I think, at least in that they did that bit that got cut involving Hercule/Mr Satan's (I'm sorry, I'll always still think of him as the latter most, since that was how I first was introduced to the character!) movie of the Cell saga.

Yeah, that was amazing. Toei screwed them but it made it to DVD release.

But Like, Kaiser was a Friza Empire soldier in Resurrection F and All of the ones I mentioned were dub voices in Xnoverse 2 with Taka's voice(Easily noticable due to him using his Nappa voice and also using joke attack names) was a carry over from the frist game.

I know - not before time, either! I have appreciated their considerable talents - pretty much since I discovered Naruto Abridged (and thense to their other early works), just on the strength of their talent. (I mean, like, seriously, those guys have more raw cool voice talent packed away than a lot of actual cartoons!) I just hadn't ever fully twigged how sound-alike they were ON TOP OF all that talent (notably with the more secondary characters like the villains, whom my distant viewing I could not remember nearly so clearly, if at all.)

(Indirectly, actually, TFS introduced me to MLP, since it was while watching an abridged series LittleKuriboh mentioned that I first saw clips on season one and was like "eh? Is that a fan-created thing, because that looks pretty entertaining? Oh, no, it's an official show, well got to check that out, then...")

I will admit that their Kingdom HEarts retrospective got me pumped for Kingdom HEarts III after a few whiles of mehness and that I would know jack-squat about Metal Gear if it weren't for their series playthrough.

I am also eagerly awaiting their Playthruough of Xenoverse DLC Pack 6's storymode becuase I think there reaction to Fu would be hilarious given the lore they've developed for their Xenoverse PCs.

[zimmerwald1915]

Like, this is basically their job. They're real voice actors now.

Effin' scabs.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Whatever schemes Frieza might or might not have going, I'm pretty sure priority #1 is Frieza not getting erased and priority #2 is Frieza getting fully resurrected. If Universe 7 wins and Goku keeps his word, then both of those goals are achieved. Frieza certainly has no compunctions whatsoever about finding an alternative plan, but he's not going to take one unless it has odds at least comparable to playing it straight for meeting those objectives.

If Universe 7 wins, Goku cannot keep his word. I mean this very literally because Frieza has already been brought back to life by the Earth's Dragon Balls. And Shenron doesn't do repeat wishes or bringing the same person back multiple times on the same set of Dragon Balls.

Assuming they remember this, obviously. But a cursory look over of a list of all the deaths in Dragon Ball shows a surprising holding to this rule.

Course they could have Goku not be a nit-picker and use the Namekian Dragon Balls to bring Frieza back, but I don't think the Namekians would be too willing to do that.

[Rater202]

If Universe 7 wins, Goku cannot keep his word. I mean this very literally because Frieza has already been brought back to life by the Earth's Dragon Balls. And Shenron doesn't do repeat wishes or bringing the same person back multiple times on the same set of Dragon Balls..

that was changed when Dende recreated the Earth's Dragon Balls.

Like, they even made a point of stating that they totally could have brought Goku back again after the Cell Games but Goku turned down the offer.

[Leecros]

Sadly, I don't think we have enough time now for Frieza to be hatching some Machiavellian scheme. With as few episodes as we have left, I'm hoping the primary focus will shift to Goku and Vegeta.

They could theoretically pull something to lead into the next series. Whether it's a continuation of Super in 2019 or a new series further down the line. It would be kind of a jerk move though if due to some unforeseeable circumstances(like the film doing poorly) there never was a continuation or we don't get the continuation for another 20 years.

I don't think that's going to happen though.

[khadgar567]

They could theoretically pull something to lead into the next series. Whether it's a continuation of Super in 2019 or a new series further down the line. It would be kind of a jerk move though if due to some unforeseeable circumstances(like the film doing poorly) there never was a continuation or we don't get the continuation for another 20 years.

I don't think that's going to happen though.

they all put at least couple of leads for next series as goku gonna use his damn wish to undo the damage of tournament we have atleast robo universe and wolf universe and probably few more gunning for his head. so goku gonna need to master the ultra instinct and vegitas blue 2 form before poop hit the fan. On the other hand kale and califula are gonna pester him to teach them the super saiyan stages. Before forgetting thanks to damn wish toppo is ready willing and capable to destroy whom ever he wants. so we have arcs and arcs worth of villians to continue the series

[The Troubadour]

that was changed when Dende recreated the Earth's Dragon Balls.

No, it wasn't. What they offered as a solution was to use Namek's Dragon Balls to resurrect Goku.

[Rater202]

A thought occurs to me...

does anyone have the exact wording on who gets the wish?

Like, the winning team's universe is spared, but the best fighter on the team gets the wish.

Did anyone ever say that it was the best fighter left in the ring when the tournament was over?

Becuase I'm just imagining Frieza being the winner and last man standing and planning to make his Wish... But then it's given to just basically anyone else on the team who gave a good showing.

[lord_khaine]

I recall it being said something about the best or most impressive fighter. I certainly dont recall any stipulations about it having to be someone that had avoided getting knocked out of the ring.

[Gandariel]

I recall it being said something about the best or most impressive fighter. I certainly dont recall any stipulations about it having to be someone that had avoided getting knocked out of the ring.

People who were knocked out don't exist anymore, so I doubt they can win the wish.

[Xihirli]

If their team wins but they're not on the board they get to keep existing.

Unless they're Frost.

[Lord Raziere]

If their team wins but they're not on the board they get to keep existing.

Unless they're Frost.

So wait, they could've avoided being erased by simply knocking all but one fighter from every team but one, then simply waited out the clock by doing entertaining-looking fights with no real conclusion?

I dunno, that seems to take the drama out of the arc. I don't think thats actually true.

[Douglas]

So wait, they could've avoided being erased by simply knocking all but one fighter from every team but one, then simply waited out the clock by doing entertaining-looking fights with no real conclusion?

I dunno, that seems to take the drama out of the arc. I don't think thats actually true.

If you mean one team keeps two people in, that team would win and all seven other teams would be erased when time ran out. If you mean one team is knocked out completely so there's a seven-way tie, I expect they'd do some kind of tiebreaker. Only one team would win, and the rest would be erased.

No one gets erased until it is certain that their team, as a whole, has lost. This happens when a team's last fighter is knocked out, or time runs out and they don't have the highest number of remaining fighters.

People who were knocked out don't exist anymore, so I doubt they can win the wish.

Didn't you notice all the knocked-out people watching from the bleachers? Where Krillin's been watching from ever since Frost spotted that he'd dropped his guard?

[Rater202]

People who were knocked out don't exist anymore, so I doubt they can win the wish.

Have you not noticed the stands filling up with the people who were knocked out?

The only ones that got erased were the ones from Universes that lost completely, and Frost when he tried to jump back into the ring.

[Gandariel]

Sorry! I meant, "people from universes that were knocked out".

A post above said something like "it is possible for someone who was knocked out to still be declared the winner", and I was mentioning that if your whole team lost you can't really win because you're not there

[Rater202]

Sorry! I meant, "people from universes that were knocked out".

A post above said something like "it is possible for someone who was knocked out to still be declared the winner", and I was mentioning that if your whole team lost you can't really win because you're not there

You misunderstood.

the best fighter from the winning team gets the Wish.

But nowhere was it said that the best fighter couldn't have been knocked out.

Leading to a situation where Frieza wins... but the Wish goes to Goku or 17 instead of Frieza because Goku was more impressive and 17 is objectivly the best fighter on the team going by saves and knock outs.

...Was anybody expecting 17 to be the MVP this arc? I mean, it's almost like they're trying really, really hard to make up for the fact that he dropped off the face of the Earth after Cell.