How useful is Eldritch Smite, really?

[Elric VIII]

I've been playing a Hexblade-bladelock for a while and I find that I almost never use Eldritch Smite. It always feels like I have better uses for my spell slots than adding a few d8, even on in a crit.

One of my favorite strategies has been Darkness & Blink with Lightning Lure to control the battlefield while not impeding my allies.

Do you find Eldritch Smite to be effective? How do you use it?

[Mikal]

I've been playing a Hexblade-bladelock for a while and I find that I almost never use Eldritch Smite. It always feels like I have better uses for my spell slots than adding a few d8, even on in a crit.

One of my favorite strategies has been Darkness & Blink with Lightning Lure to control the battlefield while not impeding my allies.

Do you find Eldritch Smite to be effective? How do you use it?

For me it's the auto prone that's best. But then I'm running a GWM polearm master so that lets me do the multiple attacks with advantage and +10 damage

[Laserlight]

I've been playing a Hexblade-bladelock for a while and I find that I almost never use Eldritch Smite. It always feels like I have better uses for my spell slots than adding a few d8, even on in a crit.

One of my favorite strategies has been Darkness & Blink with Lightning Lure to control the battlefield while not impeding my allies.

Do you find Eldritch Smite to be effective? How do you use it?

I prefer Darkness myself, but upcasting Hex means you can cast it, short rest, and go into the next fight with Hex active and both warlock slots available.

And Sorlock will give you more slots, as well as spell point shenanigans with any unexpended lock slots.

[sithlordnergal]

I prefer Darkness myself, but upcasting Hex means you can cast it, short rest, and go into the next fight with Hex active and both warlock slots available.

And Sorlock will give you more slots, as well as spell point shenanigans with any unexpended lock slots.

Doesn't Hex end as soon as you don't have a hostile target to put it on?

[Ganymede]

I prefer Darkness myself, but upcasting Hex means you can cast it, short rest, and go into the next fight with Hex active and both warlock slots available.

That is actually an open question and is subject to DM rulings.

You only get the benefits of the short rest, including the recovery of a Warlock's spell slots, if you do "nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."

There is no rules guidance that tells us whether or not concentrating on a spell is more strenuous than performing those tasks, so it is up to each individual DM to answer that question. Taking for granted that you can do what you describe is folly.

[Laserlight]

Doesn't Hex end as soon as you don't have a hostile target to put it on?

No. "If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature"; note "a subsequent", not "your next". You wake up in the morning, Hex a chicken, kill the chicken, take a short rest, and you've got your slot back and have Hex active and ready to apply when you find your next encounter.

As for Ganymede's comment: what you do at your table is up to your DM, but Sage Advice says you can concentrate through a rest as long as you don't sleep.

[LeonBH]

Eldritch Smite is great because of its auto-prone. It's also great if you're not a fully-classed Warlock and have a source of spell slots other than your Warlock spell slots.

[Ganymede]

As for Ganymede's comment: what you do at your table is up to your DM, but Sage Advice says you can concentrate through a rest as long as you don't sleep.

I believe you are mistaken.

The Sage Advice Compendium, updated as of October 2017, does not say what you claim it says. The word "sleep" doesn't even appear in the compendium.

http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/do...Compendium.pdf

[Zene]

I believe you are mistaken.

The Sage Advice Compendium, updated as of October 2017, does not say what you claim it says. The word "sleep" doesn't even appear in the compendium.

http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/do...Compendium.pdf

I believe he’s referring to this: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/20...n-during-rest/
Note that it’s Mearls not JC, so technically not an official ruling; still probably reflective of RAI though

[Ganymede]

I believe he’s referring to this: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/20...n-during-rest/
Note that it’s Mearls not JC, so technically not an official ruling; still probably reflective of RAI though

The Sage Advice Compendium is pretty explicit: "The public statements of the D&D team, or anyone else at Wizards of the Coast, are not official rulings; they are advice."

I take this to mean that Mearls' advice in the tweet linked above is how he'd rule it in his own games. Mearls' input on the situation certainly has value for the DMs out there, but it is neither a rule nor an indication of the correct way to play the game.

[Tanarii]

As long as you don't cast another concentration spell, aren't incapacitated or killed, or don't take damage, you can concentrate. The things that break concentration are explicit under the rule for concentration in PHB p203. Any DM ruling otherwise is modifying the concentration rules with a house rule.

[Ganymede]

As long as you don't cast another concentration spell, aren't incapacitated or killed, or don't take damage, you can concentrate. The things that break concentration are explicit under the rule for concentration in PHB p203. Any DM ruling otherwise is modifying the concentration rules with a house rule.

You are applying the wrong rules to the situation. The issue isn't whether a short rest disrupts your concentration like taking damage would. The issue is whether concentrating on a spell is more strenuous than what is allowed under a short rest.

[LeonBH]

You are applying the wrong rules to the situation. The issue isn't whether a short rest disrupts your concentration like taking damage would. The issue is whether concentrating on a spell is more strenuous than what is allowed under a short rest.

Concentration says nothing about it being strenuous activity.

[Ganymede]

Concentration says nothing about it being strenuous activity.

Yes, that is exactly my point.

Without a rule indicating how strenuous concentrating on a spell is, we have no way to determine whether it is more or less strenuous than what is allowed during a short rest.

That's why a DM ruling is necessary in this instance, because the rules themseves are silent on the issue.

[LeonBH]

Yes, that is exactly my point.

Without a rule indicating how strenuous concentrating on a spell is, we have no way to determine whether it is more or less strenuous than what is allowed during a short rest.

That's why a DM ruling is necessary in this instance, because the rules themseves are silent on the issue.

There is also no rule indicating how strenuous it is to sleep inside heavy armor. Do you think each DM should rule on whether or not martials should remove their armor before taking a rest, too?

[Vaz]

There is also no rule indicating how strenuous it is to sleep inside heavy armor. Do you think each DM should rule on whether or not martials should remove their armor before taking a rest, too?

There is now.

[Elric VIII]

I don't think whether or not hex lasts through short tests is particularly relevant to the topic at hand.

So, with a PAM/GWM build you can prone the enemy for a round with your first attack and land 2 GWM hits on him. That's 2-6d8 smite damage plus an extra 20 from GWM. It also helps out your melee allies until the enemy stands. Does standing still provoke an AoO?

[Degwerks]

Eldritch Smite is 1/per turn, unlike Divine Smite from paladin. If you have both then you can get multiple smites on any turn if you're able to attack

[Talamare]

As long as you don't cast another concentration spell, aren't incapacitated or killed, or don't take damage, you can concentrate. The things that break concentration are explicit under the rule for concentration in PHB p203. Any DM ruling otherwise is modifying the concentration rules with a house rule.

You're Unconscious when you're Asleep.

Unconscious applies Incapacitated.

In game proof? Sleep spell applies a Slumber which is defined as Unconscious.

[Mikal]

You're Unconscious when you're Asleep.

Unconscious applies Incapacitated.

In game proof? Sleep spell applies a Slumber which is defined as Unconscious.

That's magical sleep vs. regular sleep.

[Dudewithknives]

You're Unconscious when you're Asleep.

Unconscious applies Incapacitated.

In game proof? Sleep spell applies a Slumber which is defined as Unconscious.

Eldritch Smite is a VERY narrow ability, and vastly inferior to Paladin Smiting.

1. It can only be done once per turn, not per attack.
2. This is the huge one, it can ONLY use warlock spell slots, so unless you are post level 10, you are spending half your spell slots for this rest on some bonus damage and auto prone.
You could have just taken devil's sight and cast darkness to get advantage the whole time they are in the area, and do it from range if needed. It is not like most warlocks are going to have the str to make an athletics check to grapple and keep them prone more than one round.
3. It is costing you a valuable invocation slot, in a build that already has many costly invocation taxes to be viable: Thirsting Blade, Improved Pact Weapon, Life Drinker and now Eldritch Smite if you can afford it.

I am playing a Hexblade/Pact of the Blade and honestly it is just not good enough for me to waste an invocation on.

[Talamare]

That's magical sleep vs. regular sleep.

You're unconscious while you're asleep, this isn't even up for debate or argument. It's just a fact.

but 'Sleep' Spell isn't a "Magical Sleep"

'Sleep' Spell Magically FORCES you to go to into a Slumber
The Slumber Portion isn't the Magic Part, it's the Forcing you that is Magic.

Which is why Elves Fey Ancestry doesn't State that you're Immune to Magical Sleep
It states "Magic can't PUT you to Sleep."

[LeonBH]

Eldritch Smite is a VERY narrow ability, and vastly inferior to Paladin Smiting.

1. It can only be done once per turn, not per attack.
2. This is the huge one, it can ONLY use warlock spell slots, so unless you are post level 10, you are spending half your spell slots for this rest on some bonus damage and auto prone.
You could have just taken devil's sight and cast darkness to get advantage the whole time they are in the area, and do it from range if needed. It is not like most warlocks are going to have the str to make an athletics check to grapple and keep them prone more than one round.
3. It is costing you a valuable invocation slot, in a build that already has many costly invocation taxes to be viable: Thirsting Blade, Improved Pact Weapon, Life Drinker and now Eldritch Smite if you can afford it.

I am playing a Hexblade/Pact of the Blade and honestly it is just not good enough for me to waste an invocation on.

No, you can use any spell slot once you multiclass. Paladin smites also specify that you can only use Paladin spell slots, but we throw those out once they MC into another caster class. The MC rules do not explicitly enable Paladins to use non-Paladin spell slots upon multiclassing.

Also, Eldritch Smites are able to go beyond a level 4 slot, so in terms of raw smite damage per hit, it's more powerful. If the Warlock were to crit, they can deal more damage per smite.

A GWM Warlock can really use the advantage prone can impose for their second attack. A Warlock who does not concentrate on Darkness is a Warlock who can concentrate on Hex.

[alchahest]

Eldritch Smite specifically calls out pact magic slots, does it not?

[Degwerks]

Eldritch Smite specifically calls out pact magic slots, does it not?

Yes in the new book it specifically says Warlock spell slots. Until we get a Sage Advice ruling that is.

[LeonBH]

Paladin smites also specifically call out Paladin spell slots.

[DivisibleByZero]

Eldritch Smite specifically calls out pact magic slots, does it not?

Yes in the new book it specifically says Warlock spell slots. Until we get a Sage Advice ruling that is.

Paladin smites also specifically call out Paladin spell slots.

Spell slots are spell slots are spells slots.

[LeonBH]

Yes, exactly.

[alchahest]

Cool - so we can assume that the intent is to update the printed rule to something that another class with a different type of casting had? I'm just curious because Warlock slots are specifically a different type of spell than others w/r/t mulitclassing and are used differently.

[DivisibleByZero]

Cool - so we can assume that the intent is to update the printed rule to something that another class with a different type of casting had? I'm just curious because Warlock slots are specifically a different type of spell than others w/r/t mulitclassing and are used differently.

Spell slots are spell slots are spell slots.
It doesn't matter which class granted you the slot. If you have the slot, and you have a spell or ability which can use a slot, then it can use any slot that you have. Slots aren't tied to a class in 5e. The difference between Pact Magic and normal Spellcasting is only in how and when the slots are attained. Once you have it, you can use it for anything which uses a slot of that level.