[Spoilers for 1131] Concerning Greg

[unbeliever536]

Is he dead or not?

We already had it pointed out to us pretty explicitly in the hallway fight's wrap-up that it's hard to tell the difference between a vampire dying and a vampire running away in mist form. We also never saw Greg's eyes go to X's, which we've seen for most other vampire deaths. Furthermore, from a storytelling perspective, the Greg/Roy conflict is still largely unresolved, and Belkar's arc in this section of the story seems to be incomplete. Finally, it'd be a little weird for the Exarch to serve as the final boss of the book.

Presumably we'll find out one way or another in the next couple of strips - perhaps Hilgya will attempt a Resurrection and fail, costing the party their Durkon-revival money (or not), or they'll simply go to the Council of Clans and discover Greg there (or not). At the moment, though, my money's on "alive". but with negative hit points

Thoughts?

Ed:

I should add for clarity that I at least don't think the scenario I described above would undercut Durkon's achievements in #1130 in any way; he just saved every still-living person in the room, and that will likely have the knock-on effect of saving the world.

[Kish]

Fifty gold says Durkon is no longer undead.

[Sylian]

He's dead; look at the chair, there's dust on it.

[Peelee]

At the moment, though, my money's on "alive".

I'm a sucker for a long shot, but that's just easy money. I'm with Kish and Sylian.

[factotum]

The Giant's comment here makes it clear that he's dead:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...7&postcount=16

[MartianInvader]

Yeah, it's very hard to justify whatever that visual effect is on the chair if Durkula wasn't destroyed there. It might not be dust - maybe a burn mark or something - but I don't think it would be generated from just misting out.

But does the vampire have two hours to get to a coffin now? And doesn't he have one up there on the Mechane? He doesn't explicitly know it's there, but it wouldn't be hard to guess how the Order got here.

[hamishspence]

But does the vampire have two hours to get to a coffin now? And doesn't he have one up there on the Mechane? He doesn't explicitly know it's there, but it wouldn't be hard to guess how the Order got here.

Durkon was created by Malack as a "quick rise vampire" rather than a regular one:

the vampires created by the quick-rise spell (i.e. all the others seen so far) are dead as soon as they hit 0 hp (like most undead). I'm treating it like it is the bond with the coffin that keeps them from dying the moment they hit 0 hp the way most other undead do, rather than an inherent property of their vampire body.

If he never made a coffin while on the Mechane (remember, D&D vampires don't need to rest in coffins during the day - they just need to stay out of the sunlight) - then he's dead - which is probably why he "dusted" because quick-rise vampires do that. Hence, no worries about "if you pull the stake out, they come back to life" like you have with regular vampires:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm

Driving a wooden stake through a vampire’s heart instantly slays the monster. However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the body is destroyed.

As a "quick rise vampire" - the body turns to dust from anything reducing him to 0 hit points, stakes, and so forth - so no "pull the stake out" problem.

[Peelee]

As a "quick rise vampire" - the body turns to dust from anything reducing him to 0 hit points, stakes, and so forth - so no "pull the stake out" problem.

Supporting evidence for this: the pile of dust where he was sitting.

[hamishspence]

And thanks to Malack's staff, Durkula had no need to hide from sunlight anyway.

[denthor]

And thanks to Malack's staff, Durkula had no need to hide from sunlight anyway.

Has anybody spotted the staff in any of the fight scenes? That is s lot of gold.

[Selvarin]

He's dead; look at the chair, there's dust on it.

He died, but in so doing was redeemed. He, himself, rid the world of an evil. Thor must be proud of his sacrifice.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Has anybody spotted the staff in any of the fight scenes? That is s lot of gold.

Roy snapped it and threw it in the new High Priestess of Hel's face back at the Godsmoot.

Besides necromantic magic items don't have a lot of resale value in a Bastion of Law and Good.

[unbeliever536]

The Giant's comment here makes it clear that he's dead:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...7&postcount=16

I'm on mobile and so can't follow that link. Can someone quote it?

[hamishspence]

I'm on mobile and so can't follow that link. Can someone quote it?

The quote is:

Malack does have a coffin, it's just not within range. So he follows the normal vampire rules, while the vampires created by the quick-rise spell (i.e. all the others seen so far) are dead as soon as they hit 0 hp (like most undead). I'm treating it like it is the bond with the coffin that keeps them from dying the moment they hit 0 hp the way most other undead do, rather than an inherent property of their vampire body.

And yes, that's so I don't have to draw a whole bunch of empty armor/robes in every scene.

[Prinygod]

Durkon was created by Malack as a "quick rise vampire" rather than a regular one:


If he never made a coffin while on the Mechane (remember, D&D vampires don't need to rest in coffins during the day - they just need to stay out of the sunlight) - then he's dead - which is probably why he "dusted" because quick-rise vampires do that. Hence, no worries about "if you pull the stake out, they come back to life" like you have with regular vampires:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm


As a "quick rise vampire" - the body turns to dust from anything reducing him to 0 hit points, stakes, and so forth - so no "pull the stake out" problem.

Unless a certain some ones made a coffin for Durkon because a certain high priest told them he was dead so they would stop asking questions ;)

[redjinx]

I’m thinking it’s likely that Belkar is going to figure out vaguely what happened and Roy will believe him, cementing the little psychopath’s improving relationship with the rest of the party. I also foresee issues with reviving him whether they catch on or not, because their best source of clericosity is going to be Hilgya, who definitely has some major unresolved issues. Ah, what do I know? The Giant is, as Cpt. Ironfoundersson would put it, d*mn good. Much better storyteller than I am. Anyway, dead or not, Durkon’s not gone forever; I’ll bet all my internet points on it.

[Ruck]

People keep saying "It's difficult to tell the difference between mistform and ash," but I don't think it is. Mist is lighter and also clearly has a pair of red eyes somewhere on it.

[ThePhantasm]

Your spoiler warning is for the wrong page.

[unbeliever536]

People keep saying "It's difficult to tell the difference between mistform and ash," but I don't think it is. Mist is lighter and also clearly has a pair of red eyes somewhere on it.

I'm not saying we, the readers, can't tell the difference (or that there is no visible difference), just that Haley commented that she had trouble with it, so a character making the mistake wouldn't be unreasonable. It's plausible that the eyes are just a mark for the readers, for example.

All that said, it does seem pretty clear from his forum posts (thanks to hamish & co for quoting them, by the way) that the Giant intends us to treat Greg as dead* after this strip. Does "the same day" count as "within the next couple of strips"?

* Wording left deliberately open so I can still say "called it!" on the off chance his posts today turn out to be a misdirect.

Your spoiler warning is for the wrong page.

Did you miss the arc where the strip numbers inexplicably decremented instead of incrementing? It ran all through Negative June, after all.

[Ruck]

I'm not saying we, the readers, can't tell the difference (or that there is no visible difference), just that Haley commented that she had trouble with it, so a character making the mistake wouldn't be unreasonable. It's plausible that the eyes are just a mark for the readers, for example.

But you asked if he was actually dead or not, not whether the characters thought he was dead or not. He's ash. He's dead.

[Fyraltari]

The better question is does DUrkon#2 gets to go to Valhalla as well?
I hope so but that comment on negative energy "squirming" worries me.

Unless a certain some ones made a coffin for Durkon because a certain high priest told them he was dead so they would stop asking questions ;)

Hurak told everyone he was on a mission, not that he was dead and even if he did, I doubt a cenotaph would count for vampiric purposes.

EDIT: Then again, I'm not the one who makes the rules.

[Sylian]

It might not be dust - maybe a burn mark or something - but I don't think it would be generated from just misting out.

I considered that possibility and went back and checked previous strips, and I couldn't find any burn marks. You can see the chair clearly here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1122.html

[Quartz]

The Thundershield ancestral tomb is nearby so Greg could reform there.

[factotum]

The Thundershield ancestral tomb is nearby so Greg could reform there.

He couldn't, because he doesn't have a coffin there.

[RatElemental]

Nobody mentioned this, but Hilgya's domination ended as soon as Greg/Dukon was staked too, which is yet further evidence.

[Quartz]

He couldn't, because he doesn't have a coffin there.

Not that we know of.

[Sylian]

Not that we know of.

If he did, wouldn't Durkon/Clone Durkon tell Belkar about it before letting Belkar stab him?

[Werbaer]

The better question is does DUrkon#2 gets to go to Valhalla as well?

If he has an afterlife at all:
He died with honor, so he isn't condemned to go to Hel.
Instead, he goes to the afterlife of the goddess he worhshipped (Hel).

[brian 333]

If he has an afterlife at all:
He died with honor, so he isn't condemned to go to Hel.
Instead, he goes to the afterlife of the goddess he worhshipped (Hel).

The vampire spirit is destroyed. It has ceased to exist. RAW says a vampire at 0 HP turns gaseous and must return to its coffin within 2 hours. The Giant has posted that the lack of a coffin means it is destroyed like any other undead with 0 HP.

There is no afteflife for the negative energy spirit. At best it gets two hours in gaseous form.

[Peelee]

Not that we know of.

I somehow doubt that Durkon's actions here will be rendered meaningless by the vampire saying, "aha! I am returned after going back to my unknown coffin, which I had not laid in yet and just happened to share the name of my host! With no foreshadowing, I am saved!"