Of Freemasons, Flat Earth and Steampunk

[Anonymouswizard]

you know this threat turned in to good Bollywood scenario were we have steam punk rockets, bunch of crackpot theorists who tries to solve how evolution happened. while couple of smart men try to explain every thing. we just need hero and couple of dancers to complete the set. you know i probably pay to see scientists perform belly dance in lab just for laugh as we are derailed the threat quite a bit.

I think I might actually try to write a short-ish story based on this premise. I just need an agent of Big Government to act as the villain, to find a punny name for my pair of exasperated scientists, and a dashing hero.

I already know the ending, the rocket crashes into the firmament and releases the Horrors from Beyond Space and Time. Big government collapses but manages to hold off the HfBSaT for long enough for something to patch the firmament

IIRC, scientists celebrated the discovery of the nucleus by making a musical about it.

Here: Let NOTGLaDOS* sing to you about the Electromagnetic Spectrum.

* NASA's Official Talking General Leisure and Diversion Operational Server. NOTSIRI (NASA's Only Telephonic Speaking Interface Regulating Internet) also makes an appearance.

Remember, that scientists are incredibly geeky, and will take whatever chance they can to make a joke.

[khadgar567]

I think I might actually try to write a short-ish story based on this premise. I just need an agent of Big Government to act as the villain, to find a punny name for my pair of exasperated scientists, and a dashing hero.

I already know the ending, the rocket crashes into the firmament and releases the Horrors from Beyond Space and Time. Big government collapses but manages to hold off the HfBSaT for long enough for something to patch the firmament

me and my big mouth but happy to read the short story.

[pendell]

Well, looks like the launch failed . He got in, the rocket didn't go off, he doesn't know why.

Guess a scientific education is helpful in , I don't know , rocket science after all... .

Doesn't look like he's going to try again. I'm both relieved and disappointed.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lord Torath]

From the article: "a feat he claims to have achieved without the help of science."

But that’s not science; that’s just a formula. There’s no difference between science and science fiction.

And where does he suppose that formula came from?

[Necroticplague]

From the article: "a feat he claims to have achieved without the help of science." And where does he suppose that formula came from?

Wait, are you implying we don’t simply find formula in the Wild, like fruit?

[georgie_leech]

The suspicions this was an attempt to.scam money out of flat earth people seem to be more credible now.

[factotum]

The suspicions this was an attempt to.scam money out of flat earth people seem to be more credible now.

Everything that's happened is also consistent with the guy being plain incompetent, though...

[Keltest]

Everything that's happened is also consistent with the guy being plain incompetent, though...

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Eldan]

"It didn't start" is one of the best results he could have hoped for. It isn't one of the about thirty ways he could have died.

[Necroticplague]

"It didn't start" is one of the best results he could have hoped for. It isn't one of the about thirty ways he could have died.

True. Using something steam-based to build up pressure for rocket-like behavior, you’d expect the a failure result to be ‘failed to properly contain or direct pressure, boiler ruptures, essentially blowing up’

[khadgar567]

True. Using something steam-based to build up pressure for rocket-like behavior, you’d expect the a failure result to be ‘failed to properly contain or direct pressure, boiler ruptures, essentially blowing up’

each take mythbusters style episode with lot of laugh and boom to test but nope fate decides to throw bone to that idiot.

[Eldan]

Actually, from the article I read by some actual rocket engineers who had a look at the pictures, the likely results were "boiler explodes", "engine rips free of the hull and shoots forward, through the pilot seat", "wings fall off", "he can't possibly steer this with such tiny fins" and "he'll black out in the first minute and not be able to control it."

[Vinyadan]

So this guy needed a rocket to get to 400 m height? Couldn't he just hike on a hill?

[factotum]

So this guy needed a rocket to get to 400 m height? Couldn't he just hike on a hill?

I already suggested something similar in the second post of the thread, although I suggested he drive to the top of Pike's Peak, which is considerably more than 400m.

[Necroticplague]

I already suggested something similar in the second post of the thread, although I suggested he drive to the top of Pike's Peak, which is considerably more than 400m.

Thus, the conclusion some of us have drawn that he’s probably a scammer.

[LordEntrails]

Unfortunately, though this might be the last we hear of Mike, it's probably going to inspire someone else to do something equally intelligent.

[Strigon]

So, is there a reasonable way for your average Joe to achieve rocket flight?
Let's set the bar relatively low: a budget of $100,000, a target altitude of 50m, and a better-than-even chance at survival. Is this possible? How would you do it?
(And, yes, it must be some sort of rocket flight. Flying to that altitude doesn't count; neither does a giant slingshot or trebuchet.)

[Keltest]

So, is there a reasonable way for your average Joe to achieve rocket flight?
Let's set the bar relatively low: a budget of $100,000, a target altitude of 50m, and a better-than-even chance at survival. Is this possible? How would you do it?
(And, yes, it must be some sort of rocket flight. Flying to that altitude doesn't count; neither does a giant slingshot or trebuchet.)

Define reasonable? I don't think anything home made could be considered reasonable even if it does get you that much lift.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So, is there a reasonable way for your average Joe to achieve rocket flight?
Let's set the bar relatively low: a budget of $100,000, a target altitude of 50m, and a better-than-even chance at survival. Is this possible? How would you do it?
(And, yes, it must be some sort of rocket flight. Flying to that altitude doesn't count; neither does a giant slingshot or trebuchet.)

"Rocket flight" and "50 m" are practically contradictory. It's like asking if this average Joe could build himself a car with a 4-stroke engine, and capable of 2 mph. 50 m high is NOT the kind of objective you'd aim for with a rocket engine.

For that money, average Joe would do better to buy a ticket with these guys.

More generally, I'd say no, because knowledge of rocketry is not a domain average Joe is going to be familiar with, and it is not that easy to pick up. By the point the basic knowledge is no longer an objection (and this is long before money is an issue), that individual is not longer an average Joe.

Grey Wolf

[Necroticplague]

Define ‘rocket flight’. To the best of my knowledge, a rocket works by sending in explosion in one direction to send you in the other. So anything that’s a conic, metal structure with a chair on it sitting on top of some industrial explosives technically qualifies. The hard part would be balancing explosive amount to launch you high enough while not liquefying you.

[Keltest]

Define ‘rocket flight’. To the best of my knowledge, a rocket works by sending in explosion in one direction to send you in the other. So anything that’s a conic, metal structure with a chair on it sitting on top of some industrial explosives technically qualifies. The hard part would be balancing explosive amount to launch you high enough while not liquefying you.

Also, a 50m fall wouldn't be particularly comfortable no matter how well designed your rocket is. I don't know that it would be automatically lethal, but your odds of survival go down dramatically if you don't figure out some way to take the landing softly.

[Necroticplague]

Also, a 50m fall wouldn't be particularly comfortable no matter how well designed your rocket is. I don't know that it would be automatically lethal, but your odds of survival go down dramatically if you don't figure out some way to take the landing softly.

50m is high enough that ‘bail out and parachute down using BASE gear’ is technically a possible solution to this.

[Vinyadan]

McGyver could fly using the pistol of a powerful water compressor pump. I wonder if it would be possible to reach 50 m with that.

The first thing that came to my mind, however, is how even unignited gas can be enough to make a tank fly, if it gets broken. So that would be interesting. I have seen it unwillingly done with butane, and I hear that liquid nitrogen has a lot of strength when expanding.

Wikipedia:

Because the liquid-to-gas expansion ratio of nitrogen is 1:694 at 20 °C, a tremendous amount of force can be generated if liquid nitrogen is rapidly vaporised in an enclosed space. In an incident on January 12, 2006 at Texas A&M University, the pressure-relief devices of a tank of liquid nitrogen were malfunctioning and later sealed. As a result of the subsequent pressure buildup, the tank failed catastrophically. The force of the explosion was sufficient to propel the tank through the ceiling immediately above it, shatter a reinforced concrete beam immediately below it, and blow the walls of the laboratory 0.1–0.2 m off their foundations.

[Strigon]

Define reasonable? I don't think anything home made could be considered reasonable even if it does get you that much lift.

"Reasonable" is here defined to mean "probably will survive, but not definitely". Injuries are acceptable, but obviously not preferred.

"Rocket flight" and "50 m" are practically contradictory. It's like asking if this average Joe could build himself a car with a 4-stroke engine, and capable of 2 mph. 50 m high is NOT the kind of objective you'd aim for with a rocket engine.

For that money, average Joe would do better to buy a ticket with these guys.

More generally, I'd say no, because knowledge of rocketry is not a domain average Joe is going to be familiar with, and it is not that easy to pick up. By the point the basic knowledge is no longer an objection (and this is long before money is an issue), that individual is not longer an average Joe.

Grey Wolf

All right, fair enough. By "average Joe", I suppose I meant more "someone without significant financial resources and help". Education is obviously required.

Define ‘rocket flight’. To the best of my knowledge, a rocket works by sending in explosion in one direction to send you in the other. So anything that’s a conic, metal structure with a chair on it sitting on top of some industrial explosives technically qualifies. The hard part would be balancing explosive amount to launch you high enough while not liquefying you.

Let's say "rocket" means "any vertical-lift vehicle that achieves liftoff solely through onboard propellant." Your explosive chair would qualify. A gigantic fire extinguisher would qualify. A helicopter would not.

Also, a 50m fall wouldn't be particularly comfortable no matter how well designed your rocket is. I don't know that it would be automatically lethal, but your odds of survival go down dramatically if you don't figure out some way to take the landing softly.

That's part of your budget. Use it any way you like.


More generally, I suppose my question was "Could this man, with the resources he had available, have achieved his goals if he had the appropriate skills?"
Obviously setting aside the issue that anyone with the requisite skills wouldn't try it on their own.

[Keltest]

50m is high enough that ‘bail out and parachute down using BASE gear’ is technically a possible solution to this.

Any solution that involves the word "technically" sets off a giant red exclamation mark above my head. Even "theoretically" is a less alarming word to hear.

[halfeye]

a target altitude of 50m

Which 50m? 50 miles is halfway to space, 50 metres is barely clearing the top of a house.

[Necroticplague]

Any solution that involves the word "technically" sets off a giant red exclamation mark above my head. Even "theoretically" is a less alarming word to hear.

I say technically because, while it has been done before (people have managed to BASE jump from 30m), it would be difficult to do. So it’s not a matter of not being possible, it’s just a question of whether we could consider an average joe to be able to pull it off.

[Vinyadan]

Which 50m? 50 miles is halfway to space, 50 metres is barely clearing the top of a house.

That's a big house though, 50 metres would mean around 15 floors.

[Strigon]

Which 50m? 50 miles is halfway to space, 50 metres is barely clearing the top of a house.

Ah, now that's an important distinction. Metres.
Although I am curious about where you're living that has houses 150 feet tall

[factotum]

You can buy solid rocket motors designed for hobbyist rocket projects. If you could design a light enough structure to hold a bunch of those together you might be able to get off the ground. Getting back down again is the real trick.