OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

[Ruck]

It may be completely unrelated, but the name 'Kudzu' shows up on TVTropes as a Kudzu Plot: a plot with many dangling plot threads that makes the story needlessly complicated. Maybe it's another of The Giant's self-deprecating jokes?

Ha, that's a neat observation.

I was wondering if no one else knew of that strip.

I've read it, but I have no recollection of it. Didn't leave much impression on me.

The kid is named for a comic strip. Come on, people. Rich is a comic artist.
Call back to about strip 1a, right?
Well done, my good an faithful servant.
No. The comic strip. But REM is OK.
Yep. Thanks for stealing my thunder.

No. Comic strip. A couple of decades ago, it was syndicated in newspapers all over the place.

All of the above cleared up ...
Thank You Giant. (And the last panel was extra sweet in the funny bone).

Just because you insist your interpretation is the only correct one doesn't make it so.

[The MunchKING]

So her M.O. is to strap her baby to her chest and carry it into battle? I guess she must have come from a dwarf fortress.

People have been making that joke for the last two strips.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Soooo, I see that last panel and all I can think is, what's the over under on Belkar having impregnated Jenny with a bouncing baby quarterling?

Doubt it, since Jenny’s at the table and isn’t the one betting the kid.

Well yeah it's very doubtful for numerous reasons, the scenario it brings to my mind (you leave your kid with a cleric and she shows up at the specific poker game you're attending and then proceeds to add your baby to the pot) is absurd enough that it kinda matches/adds to the scene.

Who knows, maybe Jenny's just having the babysitter over for a poker game. Or the baby has been bet around the table a few times already.

To be fair, assuming that is Jenny at the table somewhere in or near the Guild, the baby does have her skin tone, much as little Kudzu follows after Durkon's somewhat darker complexion.

----------

Also, a further theory crosses my mind that Hilgya might go all Leeroy Jenkins with rage at the chance to kill Durkon, find herself way over her head against a high-level vampire, and get killed in battle before the Order is able to take down Lurkon. Then when Lurkon has been destroyed and Durkon is resurrected, Minrah could become closer with Durkon in the process (since she already knows Durkon's mother and family) and end up as Kudzu's stepmom.

[Manty5]

I'm totally going to try to get my 17 month old son to say "Tunn unn deh" now.

That's going to be awkward when he says that to grandma.

[Scowling Dragon]

Front&Center means you have direct eyesight and both hands to defend him.

And I guess removing a windscreen from a car allows you a more unobstructed look at your surroundings.

This is aggressively MORONIC. Even with "Abjuration" we KNOW what D&D magic can do. Like ignoring direct levels and the like, it can't save a baby with a AC of like....8 at the best of times with an HP of 1.
A single AOE, Sneak Attack (As in not the abiltity), trip success, or just a TOUCH to the stomache.
And that baby is dead, and probably a vampire.

This is utterly stupid.

[Ruck]

Soooo, I see that last panel and all I can think is, what's the over under on Belkar having impregnated Jenny with a bouncing baby quarterling?

Whatever it is, I'll take the under.

Ugh.
She's irrationally vengeful, she's irrationally jealous, she's judgemental, she's stubborn to the point of endangering her own child, she jumps to conclusions, she makes up her own truths despite all evidence... and she likes "Kudzu".
Hylgia is one of those.
Suddenly, all my enthusiasm has faded.

PS: Also? "Tunn unn deh! Tunn unn deh!"

I don't know what you mean by "one of those." I don't see anything that says she's irrationally vengeful. Mistaken about Durkon's character, yeah, but I think her vengefulness is completely rational.

Also, why are so many people assuming she's endangering her child when she's provided a perfectly reasonable explanation that Kudzu is safest with her? It might not be exactly true-- it's obviously rooted in some distrust of Clerics of Thor-- but there's no reason to think it's not true that she can adequately ward the baby against harm. (I especially don't get the arguments using physics, considering she says she's going to use her abjurations to protect the kid.)

[Manty5]

Mistaken about Durkon's character, yeah, but I think her vengefulness is completely rational.

Ah, so having sex with someone without telling him you're married and becoming murderously vengeful because you got knocked up with a kid he can't acknowledge because you haven't bothered to tell him about it is "completely rational".

I don't know what you mean by "one of those."

Given the above, I think you know exactly what he meant.

[Ironsmith]

And I guess removing a windscreen from a car allows you a more unobstructed look at your surroundings.

This is aggressively MORONIC. Even with "Abjuration" we KNOW what D&D magic can do. Like ignoring direct levels and the like, it can't save a baby with a AC of like....8 at the best of times with an HP of 1.
A single AOE, Sneak Attack (As in not the abiltity), trip success, or just a TOUCH to the stomache.
And that baby is dead, and probably a vampire.

This is utterly stupid.

Hilgya Firehelm never did strike me as a particularly responsible woman. It's likely she's very attached to the baby and not willing to let him out of her sight (and especially not into the arms of either A) the priests of a rival deity or B) the local vampire population)... but while maternal love is a strong force, it doesn't suddenly bestow good judgement where there was none to be found before.

Plus, this isn't Hilgya's first romp in wildly misinterpreting people's actions where she's concerned. Recall that she had a very low opinion of her husband, in spite of the fact that he was very loving (from what three or four panels of him we've seen), simply because he limited her freedoms by existing. If Durkon hadn't knocked her up (here meaning if their romp in Dorukan's dungeons hadn't gotten her pregnant), she probably wouldn't have thought too much more of that encounter.

[Luccan]

Zero, since the baby would be a three-fourthling.

Ah, but the baby would be half-halfling and thus, a quarterling.

[Ruck]

Ah, so having sex with someone without telling him you're married and becoming murderously vengeful because you got knocked up with a kid he can't acknowledge because you haven't bothered to tell him about it is "completely rational".

Your inability to put yourself in someone else's shoes enough to understand their rationale aside, yes. It doesn't make her less evil, and she's obviously got other personality characteristics I'd consider a negative, but the throughline of "angry at the man who knocked her up then sent her away" seems pretty obvious to me.

Given the above, I think you know exactly what he meant.

Now that I remember that you were the person posting about "Virtue signaling" and calling "stacking virtue points" a "perfectly logical explanation" for people's posts, I think I know exactly what you mean, anyway, and I also know that it means I have no interest in talking to you about logic, rationale, or character motivations. (Particularly those of women, evidently.)

Here's my take on Loki and the undead (I still believe both Loki and Hilgya are Chaotic Evil):

-Loki deliberately robs Hel out of souls and ticks her off
-as the Northern goddess of undeath, Hel manages to bar Loki from drawing from the Plane of Negative Energy
-instead of trying to contest that, Loki pulls strings to qualify as a Positive Energy channeling deity
-this now makes Loki an incredibly appealing evil deity, since his clerics are all great healers
-every evil adventuring party wants a cleric of Loki
-various evil groups like the Thieves' Guild sponsor the Church of Loki for cheaper, no-questions-asked healing
-the Church of Loki is less likely to be sought out by paladins and do-gooders, since it plays a vital role in keeping people alive regardless of alignment and is better than the alternative of letting other evil churches gain a foothold in communities like Greysky City
-all of this + removing Hel's influence on the world lets him maintain his status as the most powerful Evil god of the North

It wouldn't surprise if OOTS Loki is also responsible for screwing over his other kids. Maybe he somehow tricked Jormungandr into biting its own tail (thus literally robbing it of a voice at the Godsmoot) and bound Fenrir with Gleipnir (limiting his activity in the Outer Planes).

This actually makes a lot of sense to me.

[Manty5]

Now that I remember that you were the person posting about "Virtue signaling" and calling "stacking virtue points" a "perfectly logical explanation" for people's posts, I think I know exactly what you mean, anyway, and I also know that it means I have no interest in talking to you about logic, rationale, or character motivations. (Particularly those of women, evidently.).

Perhaps you should be more careful about breaking forum rules about dragging previous threads into this one. I know I managed to resist the impulse.

I also know that it means I have no interest in talking to you about logic, rationale, or character motivations. (Particularly those of women, evidently.)

I share the sentiment about discussing female character motivations with a person who's taking Hilgya's side immediately after she clearly demonstrated the crazy. We don't need a person making post after post trying to prove how "enlightened" he is.

[Laurana]

Wait a mo... is that Belkar's son?!?

Brilliant strip!

[Sarbos]

So no one really thinks of the comic strip "Kudzu" then. That simplifies matters.

I thought of "Kid uf Durkon Zundershield"

[goodpeople25]

And I guess removing a windscreen from a car allows you a more unobstructed look at your surroundings.

This is aggressively MORONIC. Even with "Abjuration" we KNOW what D&D magic can do. Like ignoring direct levels and the like, it can't save a baby with a AC of like....8 at the best of times with an HP of 1.
A single AOE, Sneak Attack (As in not the abiltity), trip success, or just a TOUCH to the stomache.
And that baby is dead, and probably a vampire.

This is utterly stupid.

It's not a good call obviously but why wouldn't abjuration effects be able to protect the child? (The effects themselves in a best case scenario, like if she predicted the right effects to use or that saving throws would mostly/all fail)

Also trip? Would that be to make Hilgya a better target, or are we going for the squishing baby route?

[PrexotGoldenPi]

-as the Northern goddess of undeath, Hel manages to bar Loki from drawing from the Plane of Negative Energy
-instead of trying to contest that, Loki pulls strings to qualify as a Positive Energy channeling deity
-this now makes Loki an incredibly appealing evil deity, since his clerics are all great healers

There's one small problem with that. In OOTS #603, the cleric of Loki says "I was on temple duty. I've got healing, mostly." If all clerics were Positive Energy channeling and could spontaneously cast healing spells, then why would clerics on temple duty prepare healing?

[Ironsmith]

There's one small problem with that. In OOTS #603, the cleric of Loki says "I was on temple duty. I've got healing, mostly." If all clerics were Positive Energy channeling and could spontaneously cast healing spells, then why would clerics on temple duty prepare healing?

Even positive-energy clerics still have to burn spells to fuel the cure and turn undead abilities. Maybe he was just the guy who agreed to give up that day's Flame Strikes? Greysky City isn't exactly the safest place in the world, so having the rest of the church ready for combat or churchwide evacuation would be a relatively smart move...

[Laurana]

Probably didn't want her kid to end up becoming a Pokémon Professor.

Lol! Good one.

[Luccan]

There's one small problem with that. In OOTS #603, the cleric of Loki says "I was on temple duty. I've got healing, mostly." If all clerics were Positive Energy channeling and could spontaneously cast healing spells, then why would clerics on temple duty prepare healing?

Well, depends on if he means healing as in "exclusively cure wounds spells" or healing as in things like remove disease.

[goodpeople25]

There's one small problem with that. In OOTS #603, the cleric of Loki says "I was on temple duty. I've got healing, mostly." If all clerics were Positive Energy channeling and could spontaneously cast healing spells, then why would clerics on temple duty prepare healing?

1 Only the "cure" line are spontaneous,and healing doesn't necessarily mean just healing hit points. (Or even the healing sub-school' I could see the remove curse spell he casts described as healing)

2 Playing to the last panel of this strip, maybe he was planning to go to a poker game that day and had alot of his slots filled with spells for that purpose and having mostly healing was just true from the point of view that he spontaneously casts and those spells weren't the type Haley was asking about.

3 Just a plain old lie to keep in practice or something.

[SilverCacaobean]

Oh man... I was hoping she'd be a bit more... uh... sane. Seems like the giant is sticking with her early characterization.

He does seem to have an unfortunate tendency of featuring women characters with very very bad judgement (Miko, Celia, Andi) who make very bad decisions that move the plot and that also could have easily been avoided. I hope this isn't where this is headed. Roy's face in the penultimate panel doesn't promise that this is going to go smoothly, though. He looks pretty pissed.

On the other hand, I'm liking Minrah more and more. I thought she was pretty unremarkable at first, but she's growing on me like kudzu (fast :P).

I'm wondering if Greg will try to take Hilgya to his side, either by pretending to be a changed Durkon and telling her things that appeal to her, or by telling her that he can have Durkon's soul trapped forever...

[Michaeler]

Am I the only one thinking she might well hate Kudzu? Unwanted pregnancy can have that effect, she's carrying him into danger and presumably she named him after an aggressively invasive plant while he was growing inside her.

[Ironsmith]

Am I the only one thinking she might well hate Kudzu? Unwanted pregnancy can have that effect, she's carrying him into danger and presumably she named him after an aggressively invasive plant while he was growing inside her.

She hated her otherwise-okay husband just because he was married to her, which tied her down... a baby would have much the same effect. It's an interesting theory, at any rate.

[Lethologica]

I don't think "break some skulls" is synonymous with "turn undead".

"Hates undead" is, though. Certainly far more so than it is a synonym for "is not Evil."

Ah, but the baby would be half-halfling and thus, a quarterling.

Half the baby would be halfling, but I view the other half as the full load. Hence, three-fourths. You are free to disagree, of course.

[Kardwill]

maybe that's what turned him off of them. He doth KNOW that lo they are gross, icky things.

Or maybe he's not really turned off by them, but simply issued that command because he wants to mess with his daughter. First, convince Hel to only have undead clerics, then order his own clerics to destroy them on sight. And lie to his priesthood about the real reason, too, because Loki.
It would fit his "magnificient bastard" MO.


On another note, little Kudzu is adorable. :)

[Mulisa]

The cleric just has to be a Dwarf Fortress reference. In that game it is not unknown for Dwarven mothers to charge into battle carrying their babies.

[Fyraltari]

Roy's face in the penultimate panel doesn't promise that this is going to go smoothly, though. He looks pretty pissed.

Agreed, for some reason I think Roy will not look kindly to a parent that needlessly endangers her child.

[Centaur]

Half the baby would be halfling, but I view the other half as the full load. Hence, three-fourths. You are free to disagree, of course.

In Rusty and Co, a halfling refers to humans using the term “twiceling”, reminding that the term is relative to the speaker.

So yes, a hypothetical kid of Belkar and Jenny would be* a three-quarterling to her, and a one-and-a-halfling to him. The kid’s terms for his/her parent’s races would be even weirder.

* when fully grown, assuming the height is averaged and not just a dominant/recessive gene thing.

[Lkctgo]

Is.... is that baby at the last panel meant to be Belkar's kid.

It seems half black and they specifically showed that bard girl Jenny he hooked up with.

The funniest thing about that (if it's really his kid) is that she has apparently already lost little Belkie to the other poker player who's apparently calling with the baby.

[unbeliever536]

Oh man... I was hoping she'd be a bit more... uh... sane. Seems like the giant is sticking with her early characterization.

He does seem to have an unfortunate tendency of featuring women characters with very very bad judgement (Miko, Celia, Andi) who make very bad decisions that move the plot and that also could have easily been avoided. I hope this isn't where this is headed. Roy's face in the penultimate panel doesn't promise that this is going to go smoothly, though. He looks pretty pissed.

On the other hand, I'm liking Minrah more and more. I thought she was pretty unremarkable at first, but she's growing on me like kudzu (fast :P).

I'm wondering if Greg will try to take Hilgya to his side, either by pretending to be a changed Durkon and telling her things that appeal to her, or by telling her that he can have Durkon's soul trapped forever...

Miko, Celia, and Andi stand alongside such sensible male characters as Nale, Elan, Roy, and Belkar, to name a few.

[Kardwill]

The funniest thing about that (if it's really his kid) is that she has apparently already lost little Belkie to the other poker player who's apparently calling with the baby.

I think said poker player is the kid's babysitter. Since she is a Loki cleric bringing (and betting) a child to poker night, and the gag was about Loki's clerics being horrendous at babysitting...
Doubt he's Jenny's kid, as there would be no reason to give it to a babysitter if both BS and mom go to the same poker game anyway.