Staffs in 3.5

[Celebandùne]

Hey folks,
I have a question that, I'm sure, came up already 654 times.
In the DMG, it says the following about Staffs:

"A staff is a long shaft of wood that stores several spells. Unlike
wands (see page 245), which can contain a wide variety of spells,
each staff is of a certain kind and holds specific spells. A staff has
50 charges when created."

But then, when presenting some Staffs, it mostly lists several spells that have 1 to up to 3 charges each.

So...what is the deal there? And where are Staffs different than Wands? Because it seems to me, they copy-pasted the description of wands, to a certain extend, but then go on to list a series of Staffs that have nothing to do with that description. So...where is the Mistake? What are Staffs?

[Zanos]

That's the number of charges out of the 50 that using that spell costs, not how many charges of that spell the staff has.

A fresh staff of evocation has 50 charges, If you use chain lightning twice(3 charges) ice storm once (2 charges) and magic missile once(1 charge) the staff has 50-3*2-2-1 = 41 charges remaining.

Staffs also allow a caster to use their caster level and saving throw DCs.

[Telonius]

I think what they were trying to get across is that you'd expect to be able to find or buy a Wand of every spell of 4th level and lower; basically, same as scrolls. But if you're looking for a Staff, then Ye Olde Magick Shoppe is only going to have a limited supply available, and the ones it does have available aren't going to cover the whole list of spells in the game.

EDIT: that's leaving aside custom creation. The math there gets complicated pretty quickly, especially if you're trying to cut down creation costs by making the spell cost 2 or more charges.

[Afgncaap5]

Yeah, when you use the custom item creation guidelines, it's really easy for staffs (staves?) to look a lot like wands that just have multiple spells with different costs for using them. But between the aforementioned ability to use a caster's own level and DCs, and the fact that they're meant to be pretty rare , they might be best used as DM story hooks. "Oh no, the staff of shadows, now he'll cast those super rare spells all day!" etc.

[Celebandùne]

That's the number of charges out of the 50 that using that spell costs, not how many charges of that spell the staff has.

A fresh staff of evocation has 50 charges, If you use chain lightning twice(3 charges) ice storm once (2 charges) and magic missile once(1 charge) the staff has 50-3*2-2-1 = 41 charges remaining.

Staffs also allow a caster to use their caster level and saving throw DCs.

This is what I was looking for! Thank you!! =)


And also thank you other guys as well! =)
Staffs really seem to be powerful now that I got it! =)

[Vaern]

By the time my DM finally rolled a staff of healing for loot, none of us yet understood how staves worked. I thought they were horribly underpowered, only having a couple charges of each spell, until I encountered this tidbit in the item creation section:

If desired, a spell can be placed into the staff at only half the normal cost, but then activating that particular spell costs 2 charges from the staff.

After realizing that the numbers were the cost of carrying and not actually charges of each spell, we had the DM roll before the next session to determine how many actual charges were on the staff.

[weckar]

Without a method to actually recharge a staff in any way, though, it is still only going to be a novelty and not the character-defining-item staffs should be to a wizard.

[Bronk]

Without a method to actually recharge a staff in any way, though, it is still only going to be a novelty and not the character-defining-item staffs should be to a wizard.

There are a few ways of recharging staffs though, although most of them are pretty involved.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ing-Staff-Cost

[Vaern]

I mean, after burning out all of the charges, you still have a masterwork staff that you can use as the base of a new staff. By "crafting" a new staff from the old core, you effectively recharge it.

There's also runestaves, which function by consuming one of your own spells to convert it into another spell rather than consuming charges. That seems rather more like the stereotypical character-defining wizard's staff. Likely they were created in the first place because someone thought that a staff should be used as a tool to shape power, rather than the magical battery that the core books made them.

[rel]

You don't recharge a staff, you reforge it. That way it grows in power as you do, changing to meet your evolving desires.

My main problem with staffs is that (as with rings) crafting one requires reaching level 12.

That said, if I ever play a suitably high level wizard I'm going to enchant my walking stick (heavily enchanted quarterstaff) into a proper wizard staff as soon as I can qualify for the feat.

[Caelestion]

For what it's worth, I amended the Craft Wand feat to allow the creation of rods at 7th-level and staves at 9th-level, cutting down the amount of feats you need to produce magical items and reducing the required level too. I did the same for Forge Ring (merging it into Craft Wondrous Item) and even Craft Consumable (1st: scrolls, 3rd: potions, 5th: single-use wondrous items).

[Fouredged Sword]

A proper wizard's staff is a magic staff with two wand chambers, elvencraft, with solid defensive and utility enchantments on the three masterwork weapons it counts as.

[weckar]

A proper wizard's staff is a magic staff with two wand chambers, elvencraft, with solid defensive and utility enchantments on the three masterwork weapons it counts as.

You care to break that down? How does it count as three weapons?

[Fouredged Sword]

An elvencraft bow is a weapon that is both a quarterstaff and a bow. The bow segment is enchanted sepaeratly. A quarterstaff is a double weapon, meaning you can enchant both ends differently. A quarterstaff can have a wand chamber built into each end. A quaterstaff can ne enchanted into a magic staff.

On top of that a quarter staff can expressly be wielded one handed, allowing you to passivly use all the defensive enchantments of the weapoms while casting with your other hand.

[Caelestion]

Even if you think that the rest of that cheese would fly, you can't wield a bow one-handed.

[Fouredged Sword]

Even if you think that the rest of that cheese would fly, you can't wield a bow one-handed.

No, that is why the bow tends to get utility enchantments that are useful, but not needed at all times.

[Vaern]

You can't use a bow one-handed, but you can carry it with one hand. Likewise, you can carry a staff in one hand, though you would need both to use it effectively as a weapon. If all of the enchantments are defensive, though, you generally don't need to be swinging a staff or firing a bow to gain the bonus. You only need to be holding it.

[Fouredged Sword]

You can't use a bow one-handed, but you can carry it with one hand. Likewise, you can carry a staff in one hand, though you would need both to use it effectively as a weapon. If all of the enchantments are defensive, though, you generally don't need to be swinging a staff or firing a bow to gain the bonus. You only need to be holding it.

No, you can expressly wield a quaterstaff in one hand. Read the srd entry for quarterstaff. You can only wield one end at a time.

[Grytorm]

I like the Pathfinder version of staffs. They only hold 10 charges but they can be recharged by casters by giving up a spellslot at the beginning of the day.

[ayvango]

I like the Pathfinder version of staffs. They only hold 10 charges but they can be recharged by casters by giving up a spellslot at the beginning of the day.

I backport them to d&d with home rule under name of "orbs" to distinguish them from staffs and runestaffs.

[Caelestion]

What defensive enhancements can you put on a weapon that still function even when you're not wielding the weapon?

[Fouredged Sword]

What defensive enhancements can you put on a weapon that still function even when you're not wielding the weapon?

You generally put the enchantments you want on your turn on one end of the quarterstaff and defensive enchantments on the other end. You release and rewield the staff with your off hand to cast. You never stop wielding your dominant end, but can still use things like smokeing on the off end.

I generally don't actually use this to get MORE enchantments. Rather i get the enchantments i would get anyway cheaper.
Two +3 weapons are cheaper than a +5 weapon. A +3 and +2 weapon is cheaper than a +4.

[ayvango]

An elvencraft bow is a weapon that is both a quarterstaff and a bow. The bow segment is enchanted sepaeratly. A quarterstaff is a double weapon, meaning you can enchant both ends differently. A quarterstaff can have a wand chamber built into each end. A quaterstaff can ne enchanted into a magic staff.

On top of that a quarter staff can expressly be wielded one handed, allowing you to passivly use all the defensive enchantments of the weapoms while casting with your other hand.

That would make the archstaff extremely expensive. How would you protect it from harm? Some crazy warrior could sunder it with brute force

[Deophaun]

Consider that you can already have a primary weapon, a secondary weapon, two gauntlets, boot blades, armor spikes, elbow blades, etc., etc., this staff-ception weapon doesn't really net you all that much. I mean, it's nice and convenient when the enemy has to choose something to sunder, but otherwise, meh.

[Fouredged Sword]

It's really not all that expensive past 6th level. The base item is only a few thousand gp and you pay that for lots of masterwork no mater what.

That said, I have never played with a DM who sundered the party's stuff. He WAS happy to have "Enemies teleport into camp. You are in your PJ's. Prepare to repel the attack." Having a single item you can pick up and go with was really useful.

I also just like quarterstaffs. They are a solid 2 handed weapon. I have built fighters around them. Good offensive enchantments on the maim end, defending on the backside. Best simple weapon in the game. Being able to carry arrows to shoot without swapping weapons is also very nice.

[Vizzerdrix]

It's really not all that expensive past 6th level. The base item is only a few thousand gp and you pay that for lots of masterwork no mater what.

That said, I have never played with a DM who sundered the party's stuff. He WAS happy to have "Enemies teleport into camp. You are in your PJ's. Prepare to repel the attack." Having a single item you can pick up and go with was really useful.

I also just like quarterstaffs. They are a solid 2 handed weapon. I have built fighters around them. Good offensive enchantments on the maim end, defending on the backside. Best simple weapon in the game. Being able to carry arrows to shoot without swapping weapons is also very nice.

Could also put alchemy capsuels on it. I think a few weapon improvements can get added. Didnt I see a spike shooter attachment for weapons in a faerun book?

[Deophaun]

He WAS happy to have "Enemies teleport into camp. You are in your PJ's. Prepare to repel the attack."

Why is your DM saying what your characters are wearing?

By the time enemies are teleporting into your camp, you shouldn't need to sleep anymore. And I don't know why any wizard is bothering to change for bed while in camp either: they don't wear medium armor and prestidigitation is a thing for taking care of the RP business of having fresh clothes and kempt hair at level 1.

[lbuttitta]

If you were wondering what the cost change for a spell costing multiple charges was, it's that the price of the spell is divided by the number of charges it requires.

Entirely tangentially, it would be interesting to homebrew a recharging staff. Heresy, I know, but something's always bothered me about how wands and staves in D&D are essentially useless once they've run out of charges. I liked 5E's method of handling wands, even though 3E's method gives them more usage at one time.

[Caelestion]

I generally don't actually use this to get MORE enchantments. Rather i get the enchantments i would get anyway cheaper.
Two +3 weapons are cheaper than a +5 weapon. A +3 and +2 weapon is cheaper than a +4.

As this is D&D and not TES games, they're enhancements, not enchantments. Enchantments are spells that affect the mind.

[Fouredged Sword]

Why is your DM saying what your characters are wearing?

By the time enemies are teleporting into your camp, you shouldn't need to sleep anymore. And I don't know why any wizard is bothering to change for bed while in camp either: they don't wear medium armor and prestidigitation is a thing for taking care of the RP business of having fresh clothes and kempt hair at level 1.

We got to say what our pjs are. He just told us everyone but the watch character was sleeping. We didn't actually play full minmax, we just like cool gadgets.