too min-maxy for a TAD character?

[Camman1984]

I want to play a mountain dwarf cleric of the forge with arms like tree trunks and a massive hammer. we are using point buy and this sets me a problem. the ideal stat build I can get to is

STR15 (17)
DEX8
CON14 (16)
INT 10 (he can't be too dumb for background)
WIS15
CHA8

this leaves me in a perfect position to beef up his strength and wisdom at level 4 :)

now.. is this too min maxy? would you play it or be happy to see it played? iirc negative sex doesn't affect heavy armour, but he isn't sneaking or dancing any time soon. and negative charisma is just an easy dump stat.

a more balanced approach would be

STR14(16)
DEX10
CON14(16)
INT12
WIS14
CHA8

in his background he is from a temple that strengthens them and makes them great smiths but his connection to his god needs work (so lower wis still works fluff wise) he gains his gods favour by using his channel divinity to great gifts like anvils dedicated to his god in villages he visits. so his WIS will grow as he levels while doing this.

any thoughts for a guy afraid to be 'that guy' at the table :)

[The_Jette]

lol... negative sex.

Honestly, I would personally go for your more balanced stats just because having two 8's is really going to hurt when you start making saves against spells. But, it's up to you. The first set are doable, and make for a great character. You can roleplay knocking everything over, and being a gruff, unlikeable dwarf who insults everyone and doesn't know why people care. Whatever is more fun for you.

[mephnick]

any thoughts for a guy afraid to be 'that guy' at the table :)

Don't worry about it. A low Dex and low Cha is totally in line with being a Dwarf. I wouldn't really call it min/maxing, even if it kind of is.

Don't worry about dumping Dex, you won't miss it. You won't miss CHA unless you want to talk to people without pissing them off..and where's the fun in that?

[Consensus]

seems perfectly fine and flavorful for a dwarf. It'll be really nice at level for two, to get both WIS and STR up

[Hrugner]

Unless you're dominating play, most people won't care that you're min maxed. If you don't actively prevent the party from engaging encounters that you suck at, nobody will mind that you're an odious officiant.

[Asmotherion]

About Optimisation;

I don't know what kind of DM deliberatelly asks his players to make PCs that "suck" at things.

The logical approach to non-optimisation (or to be more presice, non combat optimisation, since you mention min/max), is a campain were RP will have more focus than encounters. He can further enhance this by limiting the starting point buy of the characters, and making earn their ability scors through RP (training/interacting with the environment etc). The second approach is asking more "vanilla" options on the characters, if they start at low levels; He can do so by asking to follow the suggested builds in the PHB for example.

What you describe seems like a very vanilla version of a Dwarf Cleric, especially one who is passionate with forging weapons and whose Patron Deity he is a Cleric of is of the Forge Domain.

-He has strong arms, not only because he's a Dwarf, but also because of the time he dedicates day in and day out on his passion: forging weapons!
-He has never really trained his reflexes, believing that all you need is a good armor and a shield, like any Dwarf, esspecially one who is a Cleric of the Forge Domain.
-He has a good constitution, as product of the long time of working the forge and learning to withstand the harsh conditions. He also has combat training, and possibly some experiance in combat.
-He has learned some hidden lore from the higher ups of his church, expanding his horisons, explaining his higher than average Int score.
-He is a cleric, having meditated into the wisdom of the Forge, and the symbolisms behind it, left by his God, for the mortals to learn. He can draw divine magic from this. This explains his Wisdom score.
-He is a bit grumpy, more often than not. He speaks with a heavy dwarvish accent, making people understand only half of what he's saying, and needing extra effort to figure out the rest. This explains his charisma score being an 8.

[Camman1984]

thanks for the thoughts, gonna see what the dm thinks tomorrow, we aren't high powered gamers so will possibly end up running the more balanced version but as I am usually a 'supporting character' type player myself who actively avoids too much limelight there is plenty of room for other characters to shine even if I optimise a bit more than usual

[Captain Bob]

I'd say you're inherently NOT min-maxing because you aren't starting with a 16 in wisdom - I wouldn't worry.

[Camman1984]

i guess thats true :p but then who doesnt like a primary caster who gas the physical stats to rip his opponent a new one :)

[Arkhios]

Pardon me for asking (probably) a stupid(?) question: What is a TAD character?

Edit: Other than that, your first stat-row isn't at all min-maxy. In fact, that's how I'd envision any dwarf wearing heavy armor, really :) Dwarves are short and stocky and it makes sense for them to be slightly clumsy. Also, traditionally dwarves are a bit gruff and rough around the edges, so Charisma 8 fits too.

[Camman1984]

three/triple attribute dependant, based on SAD/MAD.

[Arkhios]

three/triple attribute dependant, based on SAD/MAD.

First time I hear/see that being used! :) (and I've played several editions of D&D over 15 years)

[Easy_Lee]

I always optimize my chosen build to the best of my ability. This lets me choose how powerful to be.

If you bring a suck character to a table of power gamers, you'll hold them down and won't have fun. If you bring a power character to a table of noobs, you can choose to scale it down via your own play style. At one of the tables I play at now, I find ways to skip about half of my turns (to let the others have fun with their unoptimized characters).

But you're a cleric. You're not going to ruin anyone's fun, because everyone likes to have a healer around.

[Arkhios]

But you're a cleric. You're not going to ruin anyone's fun, because everyone likes to have a healer around.

Tsk tsk, that's a way too big assumption to make. Just because you play a cleric, you're under no obligation to be a healer

[Easy_Lee]

Tsk tsk, that's a way too big assumption to make. Just because you play a cleric, you're under no obligation to be a healer

I use the term "healer" to mean someone capable of healing. I assume any reasonable cleric would keep Healing Word handy, just in case.

[Camman1984]

I have seen TAD and even FAD (four) be used at different points before but maybe it's just around my local groups.

I will keep a couple of heals prepared, it's only polite, particularly as he plans on wading into melee so even looking at it from his own perspective he will find it handy. hopefully will have a good few spots for utility and also my favourite spell, heat metal :)

[Joe the Rat]

Nice thing, if you find yourself too physically "maxed", you can opt to NOT ASI up your Strength at level 4. Bump Wisdom, bump an 8 that you find too painful, grab a Fun Feat, etc., and let the rest of Team Hit Things catch up.

[BobZan]

Totally fine... you are being nice and totally dumping DEX, not INT.

[Camman1984]

Totally fine... you are being nice and totally dumping DEX, not INT.

it just made more sense to me, big muscular workmen don't often have feline agility but being a complete dunce isn't going to do you any favours in knowing how to do your job :)