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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Greywander's Avatar

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    Nov 2017

    d20 You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    I've written some house rules (actually a collection of them so you can pick and choose) that allow for gestalt characters. I've also written some rather straightforward rules for taking class levels as epic boons once you reach 20th level. While by RAW a PC can't have more than 20 class levels, either method could be used to produce a character that did. So naturally I'm curious what would happen if we took it to the extreme and created a character or party of characters that had 20 levels in every class. You might think all of these characters would be the same, since they all have the same number of levels (all of them) in the same classes (all of them), but but neither gestalting nor taking class levels as boons allows you to choose more than one subclass.

    So my question is, if you had 20 levels in every class, which subclasses would you pick?

    Here's some rules/clarification:
    • You are still a 20th level character. You just have the class features of every class.
    • This means your proficiency bonus is still +6.
    • Using the rules in the "class levels as epic boons" document, your hit dice are 20d12 and average HP is 585*.
    • Assume you have proficiency (but not expertise) in every skill via an epic boon.
    • Also assume you've gained enough epic boons to acquire every feat and raise your ability scores to 30.

    While there's going to be a huge overlap in the abilities of such characters due to simply having all the base class features of every class, I do think that subclass choices can make for some interesting builds, and I'm curious what people can come up with.

    *This assumes you start at 1st level as a barbarian. If you start as a class with a d6 hit die, your final HP will instead be 582. Other than your class choice at 1st level, I set things up so that the order in which you take your class levels, including both before and after reaching 20th level, won't have an impact on your final HP, although leveling sooner in classes with a larger hit die will give you that HP earlier. If you add in the epic boon that boost HP by 40, plus the Tough feat, you'd have 80 more HP, for a total of 665.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Divine Soul Sorcerer and I'll grab Magical Mysteries from Bard (with Lore subclass) to get what I can't get that is useful.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    To clarify, I have the class features of 20th level characters for all classes, but proficiency bonuses, saves and HP stay as a single 20th level?

    Ok, I suck at spell casters and love Barbarians. So I would probably do Barbarian/Champion as a start, with Ancients Paladin and not sure what Rogue class I would do. The Barb/Champ synergy is obvious, and Ancients Paladin really help with saves with Magic. Vengeance helps double down on single target damage as well.

    The main idea is to be a barbarian that hits hard and crits often, spending spell slots to smite enemies. When I have problems with flying enemies either get one of us within 5' of each other and Reckless attack. If stealth is required, then SA will come into play with a non heavy weapon.

    I am not the individual, these sorts of challenges are really designed for.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Barbarian - Zealot. Saving throw advantage and some protection vs. death. Don't care as much about typical melee abilities of most subclasses.
    Bard - Glamour. Attack resistance based on attacker's charisma (often a dump stat) is nice and other abilities aren't bad. The typical advantages of Lore or Valor just shore up things that would be redundant with all those other classes.
    Cleric - Life. Easy.
    Druid - Moon. Level 20 Druid ability makes Wild Shape amazing, and Moon much moreso.
    Fighter - Eldritch Knight. Synergizes well with all those spellcasting classes. Attack in same action as casting. Disadvantaging their next save could be huge for a full caster.
    Monk - Kensei. Using your abilities with regular weapons will work better for multiclassing.
    Paladin - Ancients? Not one I would go with for a normal character, but its passive abilities are pretty good, which is important when you have so many classes you can't use all your active abilities. The level 20 ability lets you cast spells as a bonus action with disadvantage to their saves.
    Thief - Arcane Trickster. Magical Ambush is great for a full caster gestalt, and more spells known can't hurt.
    Sorceror - Draconic. Can fly, bonus hit points, bonus damage. Some of the other origins would be underutilized with so many class abilities.
    Warlock - Hexblade. Reduce MAD slightly. Hex develops a lot of benefits for a single bonus action.
    Wizard - Abjuration. Spell resistance is awesome and takes no actions or limited resources to use.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    I'm going to assume no UA. So, based on that...

    Barbarian - Path of the Ancestral Guardians. Protect, preserve.
    Bard - Lore College, for Cutting Words.
    Cleric - Life Domain, because all the heals.
    Druid - Circle of Dreams. Do I need to repeat the above? I do; all the heals.
    Fighter - Battle Master Archetype. Give my allies bonus attacks? Yes, please.
    Monk - Way of the Kensai, picking longbow, hand crossbow, longsword, whip, and dagger. I'm a tricky mother-
    Paladin - Oath of Vengeance. I am death incarnate!
    Ranger - Hunter Archetype, Horde Breaker/Escape the Horde/Whirlwind Attack/Stand Against the Tide
    Rogue - Swashbuckler Archetype, because I'm fancy.
    Sorcerer - Divine Soul, for more "try to kill me" potential.
    Warlock - Celestial Chainlock, because I am nothing if not a servant of the gods.
    Wizard - School of Abjuration, for shields

    @Errata, keep in mind all your scores are 30s. MAD isn't a thing at this point.
    Last edited by JBPuffin; 2018-01-07 at 02:14 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    You have, what, a bazillion levels of spells available?

    So assuming five encounters a day, you'll have multiple ninth level spells per encounter

    So for sorcerer, that's quicken metamagic for sure, but you will basically never have a bonus action available. So any class that lets you do things as a bonus action is pointless.

    Barbarian rage is also pointless. Why would you ever want to give up your spellcasting?

    You want passives, Activate-and-forget mechanics, and powerful defensive reactions.

    My picks
    Barbarian: they're all bad. But totem? Zealot?
    Bard: glamor (for mantle. No other worthwhile subclass features.)
    Cleric: life (synergizes with druid and Paladin spells)
    Druid: moon.
    Fighter: Battlemaster.
    Monk: no idea here
    Paladin: devotion (stacking bonus to attack)
    Ranger: gloom stalker, maybe horizon walker for the d8 force damage.
    Rogue. Arcane trickster for the advantage.
    Sorcerer: draconic(wings, sight damage boost, HP) with quicken, subtle, twin.
    Warlock: infernal? Chain pact? More HP, devil's sight, all very useful.
    Wizard: abjuration. You'll be casting counterspell a lot.

    Anyway that is my theory.
    Last edited by strangebloke; 2018-01-07 at 02:16 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Barb - Totem Warrior Bear, effectively doubles hp if Raging.
    Bard - Swords, flourishes to compliment the melee side of combat if spells run out.
    Cleric - Arcana, extra damage to cantrips. Life might be a better option for survival.
    Druid - Moon, more crazy high tankiness for when spells are expended and rages are spent.
    Fighter - Cavalier, entirely for the extra reaction shennanigans.
    Monk - Kensai, buffs the melee side of combat nicely, and adds additional action economy attacks.
    Paladin - Ancients, level 7 aura for fighting spellcasters.
    Ranger - Gloomstalker, solely because it's the best option.
    Rogue - Swashbuckler, more Initiative.
    Sorcerer - Shadow, to combo with Hexblade and more options for Sorcerer Points.
    Warlock - Hexblade, for crit fishing and self healing.
    Wizard - Bladesinger, AC shennanigans. With Unarmored Defense you can have a 40 base AC during Bladesong.
    I Am A: Neutral Good Half-Orc Fighter/Barbarian (2nd/1st Level)

    Ability Scores:
    Strength-16
    Dexterity-16
    Constitution-17
    Intelligence-17
    Wisdom-16
    Charisma-13

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBPuffin View Post
    @Errata, keep in mind all your scores are 30s. MAD isn't a thing at this point.
    Missed that stipulation. I assumed that even in a scenario with epic ability scores it'd be better to focus magic items and boons toward one in particular. Didn't catch that they had literally all the feats and identical scores. Hexblade is typically a go to for multiclassing, but under this highly unusual circumstance, I guess Fiend provides some good versatile passive bonuses with your choice of damage resistance and an ability or save bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by strangebloke View Post
    Barbarian rage is also pointless. Why would you ever want to give up your spellcasting?
    Good point. Never interested in making a Barbarian, so I forgot that. I'd never want to rage at the expense of spellcasting with all those casting classes. So it narrows down the benefits only to things you get without raging, which is not much. I might go with Storm for the passive damage resistance and swim speed/underwater breathing.

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    With all the abilities of all classes you're looking at some serious competition for your actions. With that in mind, i'd pick any subclass that gives me passive features or those that don't require actions so I don't just add to the pile that i'll never get to benefit from.

    Barbarian: Everything hinges on raging, but Totem and Zealot have some bits that don't require it
    Bard: Swords
    Cleric: Forge, Life,
    Druid: Dreams, or Shepherd if you're going to summon a lot
    Fighter: Champion or Battlemaster
    Monk: Kensei
    Paladin: Ancients
    Ranger: Hunter
    Rogue: Scout
    Sorcerer: Draconic
    Warlock: Fiend
    Wizard: Conjuration, Divination, Evocation or Warmage
    Roll for it
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  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Barbarian: Totem for Eyes of the Eagle
    Bard: Lore for Peerless Skill
    Cleric: Arcana for Arcane Initiate and Potent Spellcasting
    Druid: Circle of the Moon for Circle Forms and Elemental Wild Shape
    Fighter: Eldritch Knight for Eldritch Strike, Arcane Charge, and Improved War Magic
    Monk: Drunken Master for Redirect Attack, Drunkard's Luck, and Intoxicated Frenzy
    Paladin: Conquest for Aura of Conquest, Scornful Rebuke, Invincible Conquerer
    Ranger: Hunter for Horde Breaker
    Rogue: Thief for Thief's Reflexes
    Sorcerer: Shadow for Umbral Form
    Warlock: Blade for Eldritch Smite and Lifedrinker, Fiend for Dark One's Blessing, Dark One's Own Luck, Fiendish Resilience, and Hurl Through Hell
    Wizard: Evoker for Overchannel

    With Jack of All Trades, Reliable Talent (yes, they work together), and Peerless Skill, this character makes the first 10 ability checks pet short rest at at least d20 (minimum 10) + d12 + 13, with an extra d10 from Dark One's Own Luck if necessary. Initiative is practically an auto-win, as are contested ability checks (e.g. Telekinesis).

    The character has considerable Nova potential:

    Before Combat: Activate Invincible Conqueror, Cast Shadow Blade
    1st Turn: Declare Attack Action and Action Surge, moving and teleporting as necessary, make 5-6 attacks with the Shadow Blade, drop concentration, cast Quickened Hold Person/Monster (enemies just hit are at disadvantage on save), make more 5-6 attacks with Pact Weapon that autocrit if they hit, using Stunning Strike, Divine Smite, and Eldritch Smite on each.
    Thief Bonus Turn: Declare Attack Action and Action Surge. Cast Quickened Steel Wind Strike with autocrits and Overchannel for 120 damage per target. Moving and teleporting as necessary, make 10-11 attacks for autocrits with your pact weapon, using Stunning Strike (if necessary) and Divine Smite (and Eldritch Smite if you have warlock slots left).

    Even after the Nova you can take 10-11 attacks per round with Intoxicated Frenzy and cast a quickened spell each round until you run out of Ki and/or Sorcery Points. If you can't teleport away to rest after the battle, Umbral Form is a good second choice to Invincible Conqueror in later fights.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I've written some house rules (actually a collection of them so you can pick and choose) that allow for gestalt characters. I've also written some rather straightforward rules for taking class levels as epic boons once you reach 20th level. While by RAW a PC can't have more than 20 class levels, either method could be used to produce a character that did. So naturally I'm curious what would happen if we took it to the extreme and created a character or party of characters that had 20 levels in every class. You might think all of these characters would be the same, since they all have the same number of levels (all of them) in the same classes (all of them), but but neither gestalting nor taking class levels as boons allows you to choose more than one subclass.

    So my question is, if you had 20 levels in every class, which subclasses would you pick?

    Here's some rules/clarification:
    • You are still a 20th level character. You just have the class features of every class.
    • This means your proficiency bonus is still +6.
    • Using the rules in the "class levels as epic boons" document, your hit dice are 20d12 and average HP is 585*.
    • Assume you have proficiency (but not expertise) in every skill via an epic boon.
    • Also assume you've gained enough epic boons to acquire every feat and raise your ability scores to 30.

    While there's going to be a huge overlap in the abilities of such characters due to simply having all the base class features of every class, I do think that subclass choices can make for some interesting builds, and I'm curious what people can come up with.

    *This assumes you start at 1st level as a barbarian. If you start as a class with a d6 hit die, your final HP will instead be 582. Other than your class choice at 1st level, I set things up so that the order in which you take your class levels, including both before and after reaching 20th level, won't have an impact on your final HP, although leveling sooner in classes with a larger hit die will give you that HP earlier. If you add in the epic boon that boost HP by 40, plus the Tough feat, you'd have 80 more HP, for a total of 665.
    So I will assume that with your rules...
    - You get all known spells any single class would have.
    - But you don't get more slots than a single 20th level caster.
    - No UA content.
    - PHB, EE, SCAG and XA allowed.

    Hmm... Tough choice ^^
    For "standard" go-to character (aka no special thematic, no special forte) I'd probably go like this...

    1. Barbarian: Totem with Bear, Bear and whatever really. Since Warding Bond does not work on self (well, technically it is but it's just a +1 AC then XD), you just can't beat resistance to everything but psychic damage.

    2. Bard: errr, I think all are great: I'm very partial with Glamour for the free Command spell, and with Swords for the extra attack options... But for the sake of taking something that has the less overlap with everything you get from other classes, I'll probably pick Lore Bard for BI as defense option and more importantly Peerless Skill and additional Magic Secrets. Hard choice with Valor though, because ability to cast Bard spell and still make a weapon attack is pretty good too. I'd probably choose with a coin on this one.

    3. Cleric: Life or Tempest, obviously: I do love most Domains, and I find the Trickery CD much more interesting when you get the improved versions, but you cannot beat imo the "automatically maximized heal" (well, people could argue that you won't even have to ever heal with such overpowered characters though) or "automatically maximized damage", especially when you can learn Wizard spells other way in the first place.:=)

    4. Druid: probably, obviously, evidently Moon Druid. You cannot beat such a potential, 1 every 2 turns high amount of THP (well, provided people can hurt you in the first place). Second choice would be probably Shepherd. Not familiar with Dream though.
    >>> Ok, in fact, after thinking about all classes, I realized that Wild Shaping would be actually counter-productive: you cannot beat Fighter's 4 attacks with all these boons on weapon attacks, and you are so sturdy you don't need to use Wild Shape as defense.
    So then...
    - Dreams is very interesting for the WIS-mod teleport, but that's his main thing.
    - Land is MUCH more interesting, mainly thanks to slot regain (great for smites).
    - Sheperd is very iconic, and its aura is extremely powerful in many ways.
    I'd probably flip a coin between the two last unless I have some objective to it.

    5. Fighter: Eldricht Knight obviously. People may wonder why, since much overlap as far as spellcasting goes: but I like the Improved War Magic feature, along with the Eldricht Strike one. So many possibilities with all the spells we have! Some could argue that's it's overlapping with Arcane Trickster's Magical Ambush or Sorcerer's Heightened, so then I'd pick Champion instead for that "impossible to kill" feeling, although I admit Battlemaster may actually be the best second choice because of action economy (note: I'm not familiar with Xanathar's even from only theorycraft point of view).

    6. Monk: very hard choice too. While I love 4E/Sun Soul, they are out because far too redundant here. Then you have to choose between Open Hand (Quivering Palm) and Long Death (extra resilience). I would really have trouble choosing, but still I'd probably pick Quivering Palm because a) these characters are ultra-resilient already b) it's really one of the most iconic Monk features c) it synergizes deadly well with Action Surge from Fighter.

    7. Paladin: Ancients, obviously. Not only do you get the arguably most useful aura, but capstone is extremly good too. Second choice would be as obviously Devotion or Oathbreaker depending on how defensive enemies are expected: with 30 in ability, Sacred Weapon makes it stupidly easy to unleash Sharpshooter/GWM, and Action Surge is there to offset the action economy penalty. And if you don't need that much extra chance to hit (which can be easily defended indeed ^^) and plan on going melee anyways, then Oathbreaker's +10 is the obvious choice. ;)

    8. Ranger: as surprising as it could seem, while my first reflex was Hunter because it's usually the easiest, and it provides another attack (Break the Horde), on this time the obvious choice is Beastmaster: because you are level 20 in all classes...
    - Hunter has much overlap in feature choice (Evasion and the like). And Volley is too situational to my taste when you get 4 attacks in Attack already.
    - All the hassle of Beastmaster that makes it usually a pain to level (= frail beast) are gone. AND because you know so many buff spells, you can really make it an extremely deadly right hand thanks to the "buff share" effect.
    Note that I don't know about XA arcehtypes.

    9. Rogue: this one is another tough cookie: If I took Eldricht Strike, then I'll probably pick Assassin (otherwise obviously Arcane Trickster): it's usually the one I find the worst, because it's hard to plan an ambush. But with all the benefits of all other classes, I don't see how one could actually fail into making an ambush. If for some reason I think it would be a hassle, I'll instead take Thief: iconic Rogue ability (use object as bonus action, use magic items), AND two turns on first round of fight.
    Yeah, well, bar the Assassin thingy: Thief is actually my FIRST choice. Too much synergy with every other class to have one full additional turn.

    10. Sorcerer: hmm... Although I do love all, especially Wild Magic because iconic and great features, and generally I like all archetypes, I'd go Storm or Shadow. Reason behind is that Hound is good but you have so many things to do already with bonus action, but Umbral Form can be great (contrarily to rage, you can still cast spells), Wild Magic Surge would be a bit annoying to manage with that character imo, Draconic is a bit underwhelming considering all you get already, Divine Soul is overly redundant (you have all Cleric spells already, Life choice makes healing maximum already, Ancients Paladin + Second Wind + possibly Champion Regen or Open Hand self-heal is far enough, even if I admit having an instand 250+ heal as bonus action is tasty).
    - Storm would be interesting (most especially if paired with the alternative choice of Tempest Cleric), with permant fly speed that profit from Barbarian/Monk/Bladesinger/Mobile extra speed and up to 10 creatures sharing, and otherwise automatic damage.
    - Shadow has great merits though: although Shadow Hound is slightly redundant with other things, it helps keep alive spells that provide a save each round. Umbral Form is a great alternative to rage, because also affects your movement, and still allows you to cast spells.
    Probably coin flip on this one.
    (By the way, Metamagics: Extended, Subtle, Quickened, either Distant or Empowered. Probably Distant ^^).

    11. Warlock.
    Patron choice: Hexblade seems an easy choice to me at first, CHA for weapon attacks + extra damage on a target synergizes awfully well with all other class features. But considering we already have 30 in every stat, it's a bit of a wash.
    Other obvious choice for mechanical reasons would be the Fiend: actually the best choice mechanically since you get up to 30 THP every kill, and you can get resistance against one damage type of your choice (*cough* psychic *cough*) every short rest.
    MY choice would be different though: considering how much resilience we have already, I'd rather go Great Old One, for that great tactical tool that is telepathy (even if only one-way), and permanent psychic resistance (since we have "all resistance" already thanks to Bear or Shadow, we don't care that much about not having choosable resistance) and Create Thrall. Plus it's much more original compared to other features than tend to be foundable in other classes. ;=)

    Pact choice: I love Chain at high level, because of the free Hold Monster (fun fact: it's not "once per long rest", it's "once per creature you encounter until you take a long rest"). But with so many spells you really don't care. Same with special familiar: you are already resistant to magic and you can easily hire any kind of creature between Planar Binding, Conjure Spells and Find Familiar. So it's out.
    Tome has the same problem: most of the interesting things are a wash: between Wizard, Cleric, Druid and Bard you just are sure to know all rituals and most cantrips already.
    So it's obviously Blade pact.

    Invocations: if Hexblade, the "smite" one obviously.
    Besides that, Extra Attack and Lifedrinker is another obvious one.
    Then comes the Eldricht Blast related ones (+CHA, repel 10 feet, slow down 10 feet).
    That makes 6 invocations, whatever else.

    12. Wizard:
    So... Many many are extremely good. BUT...
    - Abjuration: mostly a wash: chances are you are unkillable already, ward would be overkill, and you are resistant against magic already (well, Abjuration provides advantage, but you can just cast Extended Foresight if you really want).
    - Diviner: 3 times impact roll per long rest? Actually seem very underwhelming to me, in the context of a character with all 30 stats around.
    - Evoker: obvious good choice if you want to go blasting. With that said, in a party with all same characters, everyone has a bonus to saves equal to 10 (Aura of Protection) + 6 (Diamond Soul proficiency) + 10 (plain stat), without accounting for special features... Plus Evasion from Monk and Rogue. So only benefit here is minimum damage on cantrip and maximum damage on spells, which you can approach with Empowered. I would take this only if I wanted to go full spellcaster, but I'm not. :=)
    - Necromancer: no need to tell how this would be broken, especially with Warlock short rest slots + coffeelock. Because of this actually, I wouldn't take it unless my DM explicitely tells me "yeah, take it, we'll manage those with group rules, and I'll manage on my side it will be fun don't worry".
    - All other barring the last: good, but not enough synergy with all other classes in my opinion.
    - Bladesinger: the obvious choice UNLESS you wanted to go GWM for some reason (in which case go War). But honestly there is no reason to take GWM unless you really wanted another Wizard school or planned on using a shield: with +10 INT mod, you get exactly the same benefit without the risk as far as attacking goes. Plus it allows you to use all the dual-wielding goodies. You also get another +10 to AC and concentration saves.

    So, recap with all my choices (I "flipped a coin" for those I was not sure of):
    Totem (Bear) Barbarian, Lore Bard, Life Cleric, Shepherd Druid (because more iconic mainly, Land more efficient for melee smite), Eldricht Knight Fighter, Open Hand Monk (QP FTW), Ancients Paladin (unless DM tells we will fight stupidly high defense monsters, in which case Devotion for to-hit or Oathbreaker for damage), Beastmaster Ranger, Thief Rogue, Storm Sorcerer (tough choice honestly, but the "share fly" bited the cake: you could Extend Wind Walk, but this spell has big drawbacks -namely you can't act- making it good for a different use: long-time travel. Storm is more practical in hostiles area), GOO Blade Warlock (if you want extreme damage, better take Hexblade for 1/turn Smite invocation, goes well with Thief), Bladesinger Wizard.

    On first round, just with melee attacks, you could make (4+4+1)*2 (Attack + Action Surge Attack + bonus action attack) (turn on Initiative, turn on Initiative-10), each dealing 1d10 (Monk's die on rapier) + 10 (Bladesinger) + 10 (Lifedrinker) + 6 (proficiency) + 6 (Barbarian) + 5d8 (Divine Smite with coffeelock making slots, or you just converted low-level slots on higher levels before taking a short rest to use Wizard and possibly Land Druid's Recovery).
    And that is without taking into account Elemental Weapon / Haste, magic weapons, or pre-applied buffs/debuffs (Hex, Bestow Curse, Hunter's Mark etc). I suppose in fact using bonus action on first turn for applying such as spell is better in the long run...

    Fun ideas...

    Note though that you could make something pretty stupid in resilience: pick Moon Druid, Champion Fighter, Ancients Paladin, Divine Soul Sorcerer, Life Cleric, Bladesinger Wizard, Open Hand Monk, Fiend Warlock
    Since all regen/burn slot can stack, + THP, I really wonder how people could kill you.

    If you want to be extra good at single-target, obviously pick Hexblade, Oathbreaker and Shadow Sorcerer (plus Thief still):
    Turn 1a: cast Shadow Hound as bonus action near target, cast Hold Person/Monster, upcast Bestow Curse for extra damage (Action Surge) (although honestly it's overkill already)
    Turn 1b: next turn use Hexblade as bonus action then enjoy auto-crit for heaps of damage.

    OR: just pick Diviner Wizard and Open Hand Monk, with Dreams Druid and Wild Magic Sorcerer: bonus action teleport close to target, Action Extra Attack with unarmed strikes to enable Quivering Palm, Action Surge activate Quivering Palm effect, using your reaction for Bend Luck and/or replacing enemy roll with Portent as needed. Rinse and repeat, up to 3 enemies in three rounds. Profit. ;)

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Barbarian: Totem, Bear in particular. Defensive benefits and superb carrying power.
    Bard: Satire, for some social ability fun.
    Cleric: Life, since other classes give me so much, maximize healing power with this.
    Druid: Moon, for on-demand extra health for survival or escape reasons.
    Fighter: Champion, always passive, nothing to worry about, blends with everything.
    Monk: Shadow, the Warlock 2 / Monk 18 combo is popular for a reason.
    Paladin: Devotion, now immune to charm, Barbarian covers defensive things.
    Ranger: Beastmaster, I just like it.
    Rogue: Assassin, oh the destruction you could raise with it, champion and barbarian.
    Sorcerer: Wild, monk and barbarian have unarmored bonuses already, wild adds some fun.
    Warlock: Chain, have it rid your beast for sillies.
    Wizard: Divination for the dice replacing ability.

    Optimal? Gods no.
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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Thinking about it more, I'd switch devotion for ancients, and I might switch Battlemaster for champion.

    Since champions improved critical is so much better with barbarian and paladin levels.

    OP, do we get spell slots for each class?

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Work in Progress

    Okay. Let's see.

    First thoughts: With 30s in all stats, Unarmored Defense is the way to go. Therefore, I will be eschewing class choices that emphasize heavy armor.

    There's going to be a LOT of competition for action slots. Ergo, abilities which take no action of any kind are highly desirable.

    That said, let's try:

    1. Barbarian: Totem. Bear, Eagle, Bear. I don't plan to rage all that often; this is mostly for the eagle's eyesight.
    2. Bard: Swords. Lore is lovely, but with the class abilities of every class, it's not AS lovely. I plan to use Defensive Flourish regularly.
    3. Cleric: Arcana, taking Greenflame Blade and Fire Bolt as my wizard cantrips. Wisdom to cleric cantrip damage.
    4. Druid: Circle of the Moon, mostly for the access to Elemental Wild Shape.
    5. Fighter: Battle Master
    6. Monk: Kensei, for now, though I might reconfigure this to a Diviner/Open Hand pairing.
    7. Paladin: Ancients. The seventh level ability is too good to leave on the table. Charisma to saves.
    8. Ranger: Gloom Stalker. Wisdom to Initiative.
    9. Rogue: Swashbuckler. Charisma to Initiative.
    10. Sorcerer: Draconic, Gold heritage. Charisma to fire spell damage,
    11. Warlock: Celestial, for Radiant Soul and Searing Vengeance. Charisma to fire and radiant spell damage, resist radiant. Pact of the Blade with Lifedrinker; Charisma to weapon damage with pact weapon.
    12. Wizard: Bladesinger, for now. May reconfigure for a Diviner/Open Hand pairing.


    So at the moment, our character looks like this:

    Initiative: +33

    Armor Class: Base Armor Class of 30. On any round where I attack, my armor class will increase by a variable amount, provided at least one of my attacks is unarmed. (A bonus of 2+1d6 will be the default.) With Bladesong, AC jumps to 40 plus bonuses.

    Saving Throws: +26 to all saves. (+36 to Con saves made to maintain concentration while using Bladesong)

    Movement: Base 60, 70 in any round where I attack, 80 with Bladesong.

    Attack Bonus: +16 base. This is the biggest obstacle I see facing characters of this sort. Stackable attack bonuses are a LOT harder to come by than stackable defense bonuses. I think we can safely assume a +3 attack bonus, either from a magical weapon or from a spell or from a class feature, so +19. Precision Strike from Battle Master adds another 6.5, on average. Against a favored enemy, an additional +10.

    So at the moment, best-case scenario for the first attack of each round is an attack bonus of (on average) +35.5. Not too shabby. That'll have a decent chance to hit my armor class. The rest of the attacks in the round, though, will have next to no chance of doing the same, even with advantage. We'll have to give serious thought to this. It may well be that the most efficient offense in this metagame will be a single attack with as much put behind it as possible, or a spell--but the problem with spells is that saving throws will also, on average, massively outstrip spell DCs. (The default spell DC will be 24, and every character will have a base save of +26.)

    Greenflame Blade: 1d10+1d8 radiant+3d8 fire+50 (60). 3d8+40 fire damage to an adjacent target. Average damage to primary target: 71.5 (81.5).

    Normal Weapon Attack: 1d10+1d8 radiant+22.


    "The Windup:" Add the following to an attack:

    Deft Strike: +1d10 damage, 1 ki point, no action needed
    Defensive Flourish: +1d12 damage, 1 bardic inspiration, no action needed
    Divine Smite: +5d8 radiant damage, 1 4th level spell slot.




    Will continue with this later. Initial impression: defense FAR outstrips offense under these rules.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Barbarian- Zealot. because Zealot.

    Bard- Whispers. 8d6 psychic damage for 1 BI plus some awesome features. Valor and Blade are nice but whispers is really flavorful and not even bad damage wise.

    Cleric- Death. the 17th level feature is really good with certain necromancy spells. Toll the dead is also really good pseudo twinned and with sorcerer levels you could quicken it for 4 targets, also necrotic damage is good.

    Druid- Moon. Because Moon Druid. Sure it doesn't synergize all that much but if for some reason you need to run and can't use spells not much beats changing into earth elemental or whatever. If not Moon then Shepherd for More Summon shenanigans.

    Fighter- Samurai. Rapid Strike is great, and so is Strength before Death. EK and BM and Champ are all also great. Not sure which fighting style i would take though. Paladin and ranger gives me 3 so i guess defense is one.

    Monk- ugh this one is tough. Shadow seems like a good choice, but so does Kensei and Drunken Master. If I'm going for max attacks then Drunken Master plus Fighter levels and Rapid Strike and Gloomstalker and Action Sure gives me.....16? but 13 is plenty...What about Long death too... UGH. Drunken also has some nice abilities besides that too. I like Shadow plus Moon Druid shenanigans and it will pair well with other class choices so Shadow Monk final answer.

    Paladin- Oathbreaker. Specifically because I'm choosing some necromancer options later and i also don't want to deal with an Oath. But of course All paladins have great abilities.

    Ranger- Gloomstalker. With 30 in all stats this plus Alert + Swashbuckler + War Wizard gives +45 initiative so you always go first. i think 35 is plenty and so is 25 though, so Gloomstalker and Assassin Thief and Necromancer can work. Its also fitting with the character so far, (Gloomstalker,Oathbreaker, Death Cleric, Shadowmonk, Zealot(necrotic damage) ) .

    Rogue- Assassin Thief . With 25 base initiative going first and also being stealthy is almost guaranteed. Critting with all of these abilties would take down anybody and with so many attacks wouldn't even slow you down since you can just keep moving in between attacks. Other Option is Thief, first turn having an extra turn is actually better.

    Sorcerer- This one is kind of hard, but....Divine Soul is what i need. I'd go with Shadow but Divine Soul still works, plenty of evil gods or death/shadowy gods. Wings man. Also the other abilities and access to cleric list twice is great. Subtle, Twin, Quicken, and maybe Extended or Distant spell.

    Warlock- Easy pick here. Hexblade. Pact of Blade. Grab Lifedrinker, Thirsting Blade, Improved Pact Weapon, Eldritch Smite, Devil's Sight, Witch's Sight, Grasp of Hadar, Agonizing Blast. You're Specter Friend here benefits from Oathbreaker Aura and is your buddy for life (you won't need to take long rests with cofeelock shenanigans.) You don't need to take eldritch smite since you have Paladin, so options to switch that out for say something flavorful or useful.

    Edit: Actually drop Thirsting Blade, since you don't need it (you get extra attack from like 4 other classes) so pick up another in its place along with something else besides ESmite unless you want to stack that.

    Wizard- Necromancer. You'll have very strong minions here. Signature spells could be alot of things, but Animate Dead is an obvious one. Grab a Mummy as your best buddy. start making wights and such. By now you don't physically age and when you do actually age is 1 year for every 10 years(druid and monk levels).Congrats you've reached Lichdom. I mean if you wanted complete lichdom you just need to be a Revenant(UA) or maybe a vampire from planeshift. Just being a long lived race for now should give you plenty of lichdom years. Might be better if you pick up Undying Patron instead of Hexblade. something to Consider.


    Anyway those are my choices/recommendations. Makes a cool Lich-like character who could also be an Insanely strong Assassin, track anybody down and turn into almost anything, and even hide in the shadows.
    Last edited by Mortis_Elrod; 2018-01-07 at 01:12 PM.

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    I think by that point--L20 in everything, all stats at 30--the subclass I'd take is Dawn caste Solar Exalted.
    Junior, half orc paladin of the Order of St Dale the Intimidator: "Ah cain't abide no murderin' scoundrel."

    Tactical Precepts: 1) Cause chaos, then exploit it; 2) No plan survives contact with...(sigh)...my subordinates.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    PirateWench

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Without looking at the other posters so I am not influenced (and also away from my books):

    Barbarian: Zealot. I don't die. Ever. And if you kill me, it is easy to resurrect me.
    Bard: Glamour could be fun for manipulation, but Lore wins with Peerless Skill and Cutting Words.
    Cleric: Knowledge. Once per short rest, I can meditate for up to half an hour to see up to 30 significant events that happened during the past month.
    Druid: Yeah, I'm going Moon. That mammoth, that was designed to be CR 6 with one giant attack? Now he has four of them, and teleporting, and maybe getting more hits in.
    Fighter: Champion. Regen+Rage? I can tank for days.
    Monk: Long Death Monk. Drop me to 0 hp? Nope. Try it again? Nope. And when I kill someone, I get temporary HP so it is even harder to get me there in the first place.
    Paladin: Redemption. More regeneration, I can take damage for others, and I don't even need Rage for survival anymore.
    Ranger: Gloom Stalker. I wanted Horizon Walker, but it was too redundant with the build.
    Rogue: Arcane Trickster. When I need a spell to stick, I can hide to inflict disadvantage.
    Sorcerer: Shadow. Teleport, walk through everything.
    Warlock: Undying. I choose this for Undying Nature. Now I can literally tank endlessly. I don't need to eat, drink, or sleep, I can't be suffocated since I don't need to breathe, and I can reattach limbs once per long rest if something bad happens. Oh, and with the Druid levels I now age 1 year per century.
    Wizard: Illusion. I will alter the world around you on a turn-by-turn basis. Put me in danger? I can put you in a box, and reform it when you break out. My illusions are real.
    Quote Originally Posted by krugaan
    All it takes is once:

    "Grandpa, tells us that story about the Ricalison the Great again!"

    Hours later...

    "... and that, kids, is how he conquered the world with dancing lights."

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    No UA here.

    I also haven't looked through all of Xanathar's, so I don't know all the details of all the XGE subclasses.

    Barbarian: Zealot. I dunno much about it, but I hear it's nearly death-proof. Either that or Bear Totem.

    Bard: College of Swords. College of Lore would probably be better, but Swords gives free Flourishes at level 14, so I can add a d6 to both damage and AC, or get a bit of AoE, or get some extra movement every time I take the Attack action.

    Cleric: Life domain. ALL THE HEALS.

    Fighter: Champion. Battlemaster maneuvers would be fantastic, but I'll take expanded crit range and regeneration. Expanded crit range synergizes so well with Paladin, Rogue, and Bladelock. No Precision Attack though, sadly.

    Druid: Moon. Unlimited Elemental Wildshape as a bonus action.

    Monk: Open Hand with the Fighter's Action Surge can basically murder everything with Quivering Palm.

    Paladin: Ancients. Spell Resistsnce Aura for the win—might as well be even harder to kill.

    Ranger: I dunno much about the XGE Rangers. Horizon Walker's spell list is pretty great and frees up a good bit of room for Bard and Sorcerer, and teleporting is neat, so I'll probably go with that.

    Rogue: Thief, because although UMD is redundant since this ubercharacter qualifies for every class-restricted item anyway, it can get an extra turn at the start of combat for crazy nova potential, and Reliable Talent makes up for the lack of Peerless Skill.

    Sorcerer: Divine Soul. Extra Cleric spells, which works nicely since Bard, Horizon Walker, Warlock, and Wizard have a lot of overlap with the Sorcerer list, allowing for more Cleric spells on hand at any given time, and synergizes with Life Domain for ALL THE HEALS.

    Warlock: Hexblade, Blade Pact. Works nicely with Swords Bard and Paladin. Offers a ranged Smite option, so the character can murder things about as well at range as well as in melee.

    Wizard: Abjurer, for the best Counterspelling possible.

    So let's see: I'm nearly immune to death by damage, I can kill practically anything, I can counterspell nearly anything, I'm among the best healers, my worst skill check is better than a dedicated expert's, and I can have pretty much all the spells worth knowing either as spells known or as spells prepared simultaneously.

    Oh Gods, I've become a Mary Sue. Help.
    Last edited by JAL_1138; 2018-01-07 at 03:47 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
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    Honest Tiefling's Avatar

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    With all the abilities of all classes you're looking at some serious competition for your actions. With that in mind, i'd pick any subclass that gives me passive features or those that don't require actions so I don't just add to the pile that i'll never get to benefit from.
    This is probably the logical and sensible thing to do, but...I like the idea of trying to tie the classes together as a theme.

    Barbarian: Barbarians are so dependent on raging...But I love the flavor of the Ancestral Guardian. So why not eat up rages when out of spells or don't want to waste them?
    Bard: Lore. Works a bit better thematically out of the box, and allows grabbing of unique spells that the native class didn't get.
    Cleric: Life. Either heal summons or use it on myself.
    Druid: I think dreams is sorta fitting a theme here...
    Fighter: Eldritch Knight. Get moar spells known/prepared.
    Monk: Not a lot working with some sort of spirit diviner. So why not Kensei because why the hell not?
    Paladin: Vengeance, for thematic reasons. Misty step isn't bad, either. Probably have enough defenses anyway.
    Ranger: Might as well go beast master. With a life domain and the dream druid, supporting a beast can't be that hard, right? Also, certain beasts are often associated with the underwold.
    Rogue: Arcane trickster. MOAR SPELLS.
    Sorcerer: This is tough. Divine soul makes no sense mechanically, so I'd go with shadow with some refluffing. Hound of Ill Omen seems appropriate enough.
    Warlock: Hexblade seems good, a little off the mark in terms of theme but could be refluffed. Otherwise, celestial for healing shennigans.
    Wizard: Divination to keep up with the theme, and because it's ability is so funny.
    Last edited by Honest Tiefling; 2018-01-07 at 06:50 PM.
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    First draft of the finished character.

    ELLOWYN GOLDENSOUL, SWORD OF THE SUMMER QUEEN
    Wood Elf
    Barbarian (Zealot) 20, Bard (Swords) 20, Cleric (Arcana) 20, Druid (Moon) 20, Fighter (Battlemaster) 20, Monk (Kensei) 20, Paladin (Ancients) 20, Ranger (Gloom Stalker) 20, Rogue (Swashbuckler) 20, Sorcerer (Draconic) 20, Warlock (Celestial) 20, Wizard (Bladesinger) 20

    STAT SAVE
    STR: 30 +26
    DEX: 30 +26
    CON: 30 +26
    INT: 30 +26
    WIS: 30 +26
    CHA: 30 +26

    ARMOR CLASS: 31 (10 +10 DEX +10 CON +1 Dual Wielder (41 with Bladesong, 43 with Agile Parry, 48 with Shield, +1d6 with Defensive Flourish)
    HIT POINTS: 605 (585 + 20 for Draconic Sorcerer)
    INITIATIVE: +38
    SPEED: 75 (85 when attacking, 95 with Bladesong, +10 feet on first round of combat)
    SENSES: Blindsense 30’, See through normal/magical darkness 120 feet,
    RESISTANCES: Radiant, Fire, Spell damage,
    IMMUNITIES: Disease, Poison, Fear,
    SKILLS:
    Perception +22, Stealth +22, Insight +22, Persuasion +22, Investigation +22, Acrobatics +22, Athletics +22, all others +16

    PROFICIENCIES:
    Thieves’ Tools +22, all others +16

    FIGHTING STYLES: Archery, Dueling, Protection, Great Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Fighting

    INVOCATIONS: Agonizing Blast, Devil’s Sight, Repelling Blast, Eldritch Spear, Lifedrinker, Shroud of Shadow, Improved Pact Weapon, Eldritch Smite

    AT WILL SPELLS: Shield (Spell Mastery,) Misty Step (Spell Mastery,) Invisibility (Shroud of Shadow,) Alter Self (Thousand Forms)

    FAVORED ENEMY: Humans, Elves, Fiends, Dragons

    ATTACKS (4): Ellowyn typically fights with a shortsword in her right hand (her pact weapon,) and a dagger in her left. She uses the latter to parry, not to attack.

    1. Shortsword (Pact Weapon): +17, 1d10 piercing+1d8 radiant+10 necrotic+11 damage (Average 31)
    2. Unarmed Strike: +16, 1d10 bludgeoning+1d8 radiant+10 damage (Average 20)
    3. Eldritch Blast: +16, 600’ range, 1d10+10 force damage (x4) (Average 15.5)
    4. Greenflame Blade: +17, 1d10 piercing+1d8 radiant+10 necrotic+(3d8+10) fire+30 (3d8+20 fire damage to a second target) (Average 73)

    All attack rolls are made with advantage (Reckless Attack.) No attack roll against Ellowyn can have advantage while she’s conscious (Elusive)

    WHEN MISSING WITH AN ATTACK:
    1. Reroll once per turn (Unerring Accuracy)
    2. Make an additional attack once per turn (Stalker’s Flurry)
    3. Reroll with advantage once per short rest (Master Duelist)
    4. Turn the miss into a hit once per short rest (Stroke of Luck)

    TYPICAL BONUSES:
    1. Bladesong: +10 damage
    2. Defensive Flourish: +1d6 damage to one attack, +same amount to AC for rest of round
    3. Sneak Attack: +10d6 to one attack
    4. Shield: +5 to AC


    CONDITIONAL BONUSES TO ATTACKS:
    1. Precision Strike: +1d12 to hit with one attack (costs one Mastery Die)
    2, Divine Smite: +5d6 radiant damage, costs 1 4th level spell slot
    3. Eldritch Smite: +6d8 force damage, knocks target prone, costs 1 Warlock spell slot
    4. Deft Strike: +1d10 damage for one attack costs 1 Ki
    5. Foe Slayer: +10 to attack vs. humans, elves, dragons, and fiends once per round
    6. Defensive Flourish: Upgrade to +1d12 to damage and AC, cost one use of Bardic Inspiration
    7. Raging: +4 damage. +1d6+10 radiant damage to the first creature hit per turn. (Divine Fury)|

    DEFENSES:
    1. Ellowyn normally invokes Bladesong in a serious fight. Her armor class in this situation ranges from 44-49. Against a foe who can reliably hit that, she will use her reaction to cast Shield each round, raising it to 49-55. Against REALLY formidable foes, she may also use Shield of Faith and her actual bardic inspiration dice, boosting it to 51-63. She prefers to leave her reaction open for Uncanny Dodge or Absorb Elements when possible.
    2. If an attacker hits her and she has not used shield, Ellowyn uses Uncanny Dodge to halve the damage.
    3. Ellowyn has advantage on Dexterity saves against effects she can see (Danger Sense.) When making a Dexterity save for half damage, she takes no damage on a successful save, and only half damage on a failed save.
    4. When Ellowyn fails a save, she can spend 1 ki point to reroll it (Diamond Soul). She can also reroll failed saves 3 times per long rest (Indomitable). If she’s raging, she can reroll a failed save once per rage (Fanatical Focus)
    5. When Ellowyn is reduced to zero hit points, the following happens:
    First time: She is reduced to 1 hit point instead (Undying Sentinel)
    Second time: Heals to half her hit point maximum at the start of her turn. (Searing Vengeance)
    While Raging: Must make a DC 10 Con save to go to 1 hit point instead. This save increases by 5
    each time it’s used. Ellowyn cannot fail this save until the fifth time she needs to use it. If
    reduced to zero hit points while raging, she does not fall unconscious until her rage ends.



    Thoughts? I'm hard pressed to come up with a way to kill her, to be honest. Reliably hitting an armor class in the 50's is next to impossible even under these rules. Dropping someone with spells is similarly hard to do. The default spell DC for these characters is going to be 24; the default saving throw bonus is going to be 26. Barring magic items to boost spell DCs, it's basically impossible for a character at this level to make another character at this level fail a save. Add in the multiple rerolls for failed saves, and even with a Robe of the Archmagi and a Rod of the Pact Keeper, it's still going to be nearly impossible to make such a character blow a save.

  21. - Top - End - #21
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Barbarian: Storm Herald
    Bard: College of Valor
    Cleric: Life Domain
    Druid: Circle of the Moon
    Monk: Sun Soul
    Paladin: Oath of Ancients
    Ranger: Monster Slayer
    Sorcerer: Dragon Origin
    Warlock: Great Old One
    Wizard: School of War

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Barbarian: Storm Herald Zealot
    Bard: College of Lore
    Cleric: Storm Domain
    Druid: Circle of the Shepherd
    Fighter: Cavalier
    Monk: Drunken Master
    Paladin: Oath of Ancients
    Ranger: Horizon Walker
    Rogue: Swashbuckler
    Sorcerer: Storm Sorcery
    Warlock: Celestial
    Wizard: School of War

    Why so many storm related sub-classes? I like their mutual synergies and because AC/DC - THUNDERSTRUCK would be my entrance song!

    Also, drunken boxing is best! x)

    Imho, this could make the character insane as a tank.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-01-08 at 01:00 AM.

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    To clarify, I have the class features of 20th level characters for all classes, but proficiency bonuses, saves and HP stay as a single 20th level?
    Essentially, yes. For HP specifically, I've calibrated the "class levels as epic boons" to grant minimal HP on a level up just so that players don't need to worry about the order in which they take their class levels (except 1st level). When I say "minimal", I mean gaining a level of any d6 hit die class doesn't give you any extra HP after 20th level, while gaining a level of barbarian gives you a measly 3 HP. It does add up, though, so you can start with the HP of a 20th level barbarian, add 120 HP from the three d10 hit die classes, and another 120 HP from the six d8 hit die classes.

    But if it's easier to just say, "You have the HP of a 20th level barbarian, full stop," then I don't think that will change too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by strangebloke View Post
    You have, what, a bazillion levels of spells available?

    So assuming five encounters a day, you'll have multiple ninth level spells per encounter
    Quote Originally Posted by Citan View Post
    So I will assume that with your rules...
    - You get all known spells any single class would have.
    - But you don't get more slots than a single 20th level caster.
    - No UA content.
    - PHB, EE, SCAG and XA allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by strangebloke View Post
    OP, do we get spell slots for each class?
    I did forget to mention this, but Citan is correct. You have the spell slots of one 20th level full caster, but also the pact magic and Mystic Arcanum of a 20th level warlock, and the sorcery points of a 20th level sorcerer, and the Arcane Recovery of a 20th level wizard. There are a few other subclass-specific features that can extend your spellcasting even further, but I'd estimate that you're casting maybe only about twice as many spells as a generic 20th level full caster, and that with some restrictions (like one of your two 9th level spells has to be your 9th level Mystic Arcanum spell, not just any 9th level spell).

    Still quite potent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    With all the abilities of all classes you're looking at some serious competition for your actions. With that in mind, i'd pick any subclass that gives me passive features or those that don't require actions so I don't just add to the pile that i'll never get to benefit from.
    Indeed, passive abilities seem like they'll give you the most benefit. Still, by combining active features across several classes you can allow yourself to do something much better than any single-classed character (or multiclass restricted to 20 class levels).

    I have to run now, but I'm pleased to see people actually putting thought into this. I thought this thread might just get laughed off as pointless powergamer theorycrafting (which, to be fair, wouldn't be an entirely incorrect assessment).

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    Honest Tiefling's Avatar

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I have to run now, but I'm pleased to see people actually putting thought into this. I thought this thread might just get laughed off as pointless powergamer theorycrafting (which, to be fair, wouldn't be an entirely incorrect assessment).
    I think it was a fun idea. And this thread is making me wonder if a two player trisalt could actually work. I think beyond that is not a good idea unless you have a super organized group. I was thinking of running a gestalt game soon enough so this has spurred some ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oko and Qailee View Post
    Man, I like this tiefling.
    For all of your completely and utterly honest needs. Zaydos made, Tiefling approved.

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Greywander, how do you plan to address the issue of defense outstripping offense by so much?

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I think it was a fun idea. And this thread is making me wonder if a two player trisalt could actually work. I think beyond that is not a good idea unless you have a super organized group. I was thinking of running a gestalt game soon enough so this has spurred some ideas.
    For tristalt, you mean 3 classes at once? I would personally say Barbarian/Champion/Ancient Paladin because I like the idea, not because it is optimal. A neat one would be to switch Barbarian for Draconic Sorceror for the flight and still consistent damage and large Smite capacity.

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Jul 2017

    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Needs more offense. Magic is for girly-men.

    Totem Barbarian (Elk/Eagle/Bear)
    Whispers Bard
    Tempest Cleric
    Moon Druid, I guess
    Champion Fighter
    Drunker Master Monk
    Ancients Paladin
    Gloom Stalker Ranger
    Thief Rogue
    Divine Soul Sorceror
    Celestial Warlock (w/ Pact of the Blade)
    Bladesinger Wizard

    The point here is to fish for crits like crazy. With Reckless Attack, Elven Accuracy and Champion, each of your attacks has about a 39% to crit. You get 4-10 attacks per turn through Fighter, Drunken Master, and Gloom Stalker if it's your first turn. Using a short sword, your base damage per attack will be 1d10+3d8+22. Once you get one of those 39% crits, though, you go all out. 10d6 SA, 8d6 Psychic Blades, 6d8 Eldritch Smite, 5d8 Smite, all doubled. That's 302 average damage on your first crit per turn and 77-176 average damage on each crit after that. If Rage and Bladesong are activated, that's an additional 16 damage per hit. And you get to go twice your first turn in combat. You'll probably run out of spell slots to burn on Smites but it won't matter because whatever you're fighting will be as dead as a rusted doornail.

    The biggest challenge is to get in melee range to kill the poor schmuck who crossed you. Going Wood-Elf nets you a 70 foot ground speed, with potential bonuses of 10 feet on your first turn from Gloom Stalker, 10 feet from Bladesinger, and 15 while raging from Elk. And Tempest Cleric gives you flying speed equivalent to your current ground speed. When you enter combat, you'll have +20 and advantage on Initiative and an immediate 160 foot range to close in and start ending your enemies, or to jump between enough enemies to activate Intoxicated Frenzy (how about another 10 feet of movement there too?). And hey, if that's not enough, quicken Dimension Door and start murdering.

    Between Ancients Paladin, Champion, Barbarian, Celestial Warlock, and Divine Soul Sorceror, your regeneration is so insane that you'll be almost impossible to kill.
    Last edited by Nidgit; 2018-01-08 at 05:12 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    If I recall correctly, Elven Accuracy and Reckless Attack do not mix, due to Reckless Attack using Strength based attacks.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I have to run now, but I'm pleased to see people actually putting thought into this. I thought this thread might just get laughed off as pointless powergamer theorycrafting (which, to be fair, wouldn't be an entirely incorrect assessment).
    Your next thread should definitely be 'Build a character by choosing any two abilities from any class at that level'
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
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    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: You have 20 levels in every class - What subclasses do you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    For tristalt, you mean 3 classes at once? I would personally say Barbarian/Champion/Ancient Paladin because I like the idea, not because it is optimal. A neat one would be to switch Barbarian for Draconic Sorceror for the flight and still consistent damage and large Smite capacity.
    I, for one, would do almost exactly the same, except I would choose Cavalier over Champion, because this combination would fit perfectly for my current character who is a self-proclaimed tank of the group, a ferocious warrior, and a devout servant of the Old Faith and a follower of Kord's teachings. For Barbarian's Primal Path I guess Zealot would be the most appropriate as it befits a follower of Kord (not to forget that Zealot adds some serious oomph on the character's smiting ability!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    If I recall correctly, Elven Accuracy and Reckless Attack do not mix, due to Reckless Attack using Strength based attacks.
    Correct. Elven Accuracy only works with attacks made using Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, while Reckless Attack gives you advantage only on attacks using Strength.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-01-08 at 12:59 AM.
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


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