You just gained a level in real life! What class would you take?

[Crichton]

Interesting. How much value do you place on Spell-to-Power if there's no guarantee of having any access to arcane magic at all? It does cost you a bonus feat, and precludes Favored Discipline or Mantled Erudite. Multiple people so far have sprung for the STP option, which is surprising to me.

If I can't find any magic users in the world (using the transparency of Detect Psionics, for example), then I can eventually use Reality Revision to create scrolls (which are a nonpsionic item of less than 25000gp), to learn from.

[Deophaun]

If I can't find any magic users in the world

I think the question is, "Why in the heck would you want to do something like that?" Have you seen what people in these threads would do with magic powers? And you want to let these people know that you're a potential competitor on the off chance they wouldn't mindrape you into complete servility and instead make you more powerful?

[Quertus]

Is it possible to research the process/ritual to become an Elan? Because eventual immortality is high on my to-do list.

Go team immortal.

So, any plans to deal with this "the sun might go out some day" problem?

EDIT:

I think the question is, "Why in the heck would you want to do something like that?" Have you seen what people in these threads would do with magic powers? And you want to let these people know that you're a potential competitor on the off chance they wouldn't mindrape you into complete servility and instead make you more powerful?

I promise only to mind rape you to be a better person, not complete servitude.

[Deophaun]

So, any plans to deal with this "the sun might go out some day" problem?

Honestly, I plan on just making a new universe.

[Elricaltovilla]

Go team immortal.

So, any plans to deal with this "the sun might go out some day" problem?

Relatively easy. Replace the sun with a series of gates to the elemental plane of fire. Alternatively, just leave and go somewhere else once I get to be a high enough level to planeshift.

[Celestia]

The real problem with the sun isn't that it'll someday go out. Long before that ever happens, it'll expand into a red giant and engulf the earth. Before even that, however, it'll become hot enough to boil away the oceans and make the earth an inhospitable wasteland. You'll die billions of years before solar explosion becomes even a distant concern. (And when it does explode, the whole solar system will go with it, anyways. Stars don't die quietly like old light bulbs.)

And a gate to the plane of fire is a laughably absurd solution. Even ignoring all the other problems with a dying sun, replacing it with a gate will still spell immediate death because a simple gate won't have the gravitational pull to keep the planets in orbit. They'll all fly off and become rogue ice balls.

[Jack_Simth]

The real problem with the sun isn't that it'll someday go out. Long before that ever happens, it'll expand into a red giant and engulf the earth. Before even that, however, it'll become hot enough to boil away the oceans and make the earth an inhospitable wasteland. You'll die billions of years before solar explosion becomes even a distant concern. (And when it does explode, the whole solar system will go with it, anyways. Stars don't die quietly like old light bulbs.)

There's disagreement on how that will go. Some figures suggest that the reduced gravity due to the sun throwing off matter, and the increased light pressure during the expansion event, will shuffle the earth's orbit further out as it goes, keeping the earth in a relatively hospitable zone.

But yes, long term, you'll want to be able to Make your own world and adjust it to your own tastes. Solves the sun problem.

And a gate to the plane of fire is a laughably absurd solution. Even ignoring all the other problems with a dying sun, replacing it with a gate will still spell immediate death because a simple gate won't have the gravitational pull to keep the planets in orbit. They'll all fly off and become rogue ice balls.

The trick would be to put the gate to the plane of fire (or other energy solution) inside a big shell. But I plan to be an ageless incorporeal undead by then, so mundane energy sources won't be particularly relevant to me beyond company. And Simulacrum in Pathfinder doesn't require a piece of the original.

[Deophaun]

Saving the Earth from the Red Giant phase of our Sun is so easy we can start to do it now if we wanted. It's simply a matter of picking an appropriately sized rock (a large-ish asteroid, one of the potential "planet killers" we dodge every few years should do nicely) and keeping it at a set distance and position relative to the Earth, turning it into a gravity tractor that (slowly) pulls the planet wherever you want.

There's no worry about Earth flying out of the solar system as our Sun won't go supernova. The bulk of the Sun's mass will remain so you only have to replace the energy output.

That said, there are still a couple problems.

1) It's the Elemental Plane of Fire, but the Sun is plasma, not fire. Plasma is a heck of a lot more energetic.
2) We actually don't know if any of these planes exist. In fact, a good assumption seeing as how Pazzuzu doesn't exist to grant wishes to people who would consort with demons instantly upon finding out magic is real is that anything outside of our world also doesn't.

[KillingAScarab]

But yes, long term, you'll want to be able to Make your own world and adjust it to your own tastes. Solves the sun problem.


The trick would be to put the gate to the plane of fire (or other energy solution) inside a big shell. But I plan to be an ageless incorporeal undead by then, so mundane energy sources won't be particularly relevant to me beyond company. And Simulacrum in Pathfinder doesn't require a piece of the original.

People have big plans for 12 to 16 years from now. "Honey, company is coming over, and they still breathe an oxygen atmosphere and use visible light to see. Do remember to create a star at the appropriate distance for them."

[Florian]

So, any plans to deal with this "the sun might go out some day" problem?

PF Occult Adventures actually deals with some interesting concepts, as does anything having to do with the First World. I´d actually love to participate in a game that fully explores that stuff.

Basically, we can check what is written in the Akashic Records (the sum of reality) and cheat by altering some detail here or there, or grab a silver key and start a large-scale occult ritual to just change reality as it is or collectively transfer over to the Dreamlands.

[Elricaltovilla]

I guess I went to sleep before properly explaining how to deal with that whole "Sun going out problem."

You don't put gates to the elemental plane of fire in the same spot as the sun. The amount of energy they output wouldn't match the output of the sun (although there very well could be places in the elemental plane of fire that generate enough heat to produce plasma instead of "fire"), so instead, you scatter them across the surface of the planet and inside the core to keep Earth at a relatively stable temperature so that liquid water will still flow and the mantle will still stay liquid, enabling earth to maintain a strong magnetic field.

The idea isn't to replace the sun in its entirety, just its larger effects on planet earth. The important thing to remember is that we're gaining a level a year here. That means I will be level 20 before I'm 50 years old. Even if I don't become an Elan I've got a long time to prep for any issues. In 60 years time, I'll have three different classes maxed all the way to level 20 (since pathfinder doesn't have true epic level abilities). At least one of them will be one that gives me immortality, probably multiples. And I'll have years, decades, centuries etc. to prepare for any real issues. Really it's only the first decade or so that's dangerous. Once you hit level 10 in any full casting or manifesting class you've become one of the most personally powerful individuals on the planet.

So after a while the earth might look like this:

Spoiler

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and I might look like this:

Spoiler

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But the Earth will survive as a rogue planet traveling the galaxy and defying the laws of thermodynamics like the divine instrument it was meant to be.

[Deophaun]

But the Earth will survive as a rogue planet traveling the galaxy and defying the laws of thermodynamics like the divine instrument it was meant to be.

But how do you get around the whole "elemental plane of fire might not exist" problem of opening gates to the elemental plane of fire?

[The Bandicoot]

3.5? Cloistered Cleric of Odin with the Knowledge and Travel domains.
Pathfinder? Animist Shaman

[KillingAScarab]

But how do you get around the whole "elemental plane of fire might not exist" problem of opening gates to the elemental plane of fire?

Well, you don't know until you try. What's the worst that could ha--
*And thus, Athas was made.*

[Elricaltovilla]

But how do you get around the whole "elemental plane of fire might not exist" problem of opening gates to the elemental plane of fire?

Sure, I'm operating on the assumption that it exists. If it doesn't, I'll know eventually and I'll be able to come up with a different plan. The timescale I have to work with before it even matters is massive. The sun will be fine for billions of years before I have to worry about it.

In 19 years I'll be a 20th level Tactician and (hopefully) immortal. I've got time.

[Tohsaka Rin]

But how do you get around the whole "elemental plane of fire might not exist" problem of opening gates to the elemental plane of fire?

By the time that matters, I'm sure someone here will have made an elemental plane of fire in their spare time. Kind of like popping down to the corner store for a carton of milk.

"Ok, rearranged the cosmos to make a giant magical circle, fixed the planar alignment (again), got the tides working on metric, aannnd- ah, crap. I forgot to make that elemental plane. Honey! Which elemental plane did I need to make again? What? No, I already did that. No, not for- right! That one, thank you! Aaannnd there. Elemental Plane of Fire, to keep the Earth habitable. Now on to harder business, programming the VCR to watch Home Alone with the northern Druids. Those folks sure loooove slapstick."

[Deophaun]

Sure, I'm operating on the assumption that it exists. If it doesn't, I'll know eventually and I'll be able to come up with a different plan. The timescale I have to work with before it even matters is massive. The sun will be fine for billions of years before I have to worry about it.

By the time that matters, I'm sure someone here will have made an elemental plane of fire in their spare time. Kind of like popping down to the corner store for a carton of milk.

Just a reminder: it just takes one person to IHS away the Sun. The timescales you rely upon might be drastically reduced.

[Elricaltovilla]

Just a reminder: it just takes one person to IHS away the Sun. The timescales you rely upon might be drastically reduced.

That would require them to suffer a negative effect from the sun that the maneuver can be used on.

Additionally, I'm using the Pathfinder version of this little exercise and IHS doesn't exist in Pathfinder.

[Deophaun]

That would require them to suffer a negative effect from the sun that the maneuver can be used on.

That's hardly a safeguard. For example, I suffer from Autosomal dominant Compelling Helio-Ophthalmic Outburst syndrome.

[Tohsaka Rin]

That's hardly a safeguard. For example, I suffer from Autosomal dominant Compelling Helio-Ophthalmic Outburst syndrome.

That's easy to fix, just take two smacks of the rulebook of your choice across the face, and don't put out the sun in the morning.

Seriously, don't though. Apollo has to take his chariot in to get serviced, and it's a real hassle. He has to drink that weird-tasting coffee, and make small talk with the soccer moms there, awkward.

[Troacctid]

That would require them to suffer a negative effect from the sun that the maneuver can be used on.

More importantly, it requires the sun to be an effect affecting you, not just to cause one.

[Jack_Simth]

But how do you get around the whole "elemental plane of fire might not exist" problem of opening gates to the elemental plane of fire?

Permanent Walls of Fire will do the job just fine. Pair with energy subsitution (Cold) walls of fire elsewhere (or permanent walls of ice, or whatever).

[khadgar567]

One of the good things about solarian that i know when the sun is on the last legs so i can jump on diffrent planet when time comes.

[atemu1234]

One presumes that if one could use magic in this world, the only thing to fear would be the freshly-empowered Ed Greenwood.

[khadgar567]

One presumes that if one could use magic in this world, the only thing to fear would be the freshly-empowered Ed Greenwood.

you know we all kinda have our personal tricks( homebrew settings) to beat mister greenwood by our lazy pleasure and we do have mythos gramarie and whole different settings in minmax that can shocking grasp him to unconscious.

[KillingAScarab]

One presumes that if one could use magic in this world, the only thing to fear would be the freshly-empowered Ed Greenwood.

You mean he wouldn't just go to Toril as soon as he could?

[Graypairofsocks]

The optimal choice in situations like these is most likely to gain wizard and cleric levels until you can take Dweomerkeeper. It's probably what I would do.

[Quarian Rex]

I recently realized that my original build was outlawed due to lack off 3rd party support in this exercise so some hefty revisions are in order.

Spoiler: 1st party Build

Show

Human (Middle Aged) Alchemist [Blood Alchemist/Internal Alchemist]

Str 7 (8-1)
Dex 9 (10-1)
Con 10 (11-1)
Int 16 (13 +2+1)
Wis 10 (9+1)
Cha 13 (12+1)


1 Alchemist [Blood Alchemist/Internal Alchemist] 1
- Class features - Alchemy, Brew Potion, Lifeblood, Alchemical Circles, Breath Mastery
- Feat - Psychic Sensitivity
- Feat (Human) - Technologist
- Forumlae (1st x5) - Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds, Endure Elements, See Alignment, Tears to Wine

Skills [4+3(Int)+1(Human)+1(Favored Class for 1st three levels)]
- Appraise, Craft (Alchemy), Diplomacy*, Heal, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Engineering)*, Perception, Spellcraft

* Not class skills

The idea here is to open up as many possibilities for the spread/use of these new capabilities in daily life as I can. To that end I have both the Technologist feat (to make sure that newly acquired competencies are as widely applicable as possible) and Psychic Sensitivity to open myself to more of the casual weirdness that may be surrounding me at any given time. Initial forumlae were chosen to gain greater insight into the world (Comprehend Languages), to ensure the survival of any injury that isn't immediately fatal (Cure Light Wounds), to comfortably ice skate in a speedo (Endure Elements), to gain insight into the true nature of those around me (See Alignment), and to perhaps start a low level sewage treatment plant/microbrewery (Tears to Wine).

See Alignment, though, could make things really, really interesting. How would things change for you if you found out that your child/wife/mom was neutral evil or somesuch?

From there would be a steady increase in my ability to further affect the world. First with Infusion (to be able to use my extracts on others), then eventually through the use of Alchemical Circles for unlimited use spell-like abilities, allowing such things as being my own backhoe (Expeditious Excavation), repairing all the things (Make Whole), making everything that I can lay my hands on into the best quality version that it can be (Masterwork Transformation), trying my hand at being Michelangelo/making secret bases/bunkers in the heart of a mountain (Stone Shape), be a one man sweatshop (Fabricate), and making any thing into anything (Polymorph Any Object). While other spellcasters can perform similar feats, Alchemical Circles takes this from the equivalent of artisanal crafting to the industrial revolution.

Taking Master Craftsman [Craft (Alchemy)], Craft Wondrous Item, and Fleshwarper (all feats), and the discoveries Promethean Disciple, Alchemical Simulacrum, Doppelganger Simulacrum, Alchemical Zombie, and Greater Alchemical Simulacrum will start opening up options for a more experimental future for myself and humanity. Even besides the Mad Tyrant/supersoldier options inherent in these abilities, just allowing these to be studied by science could open up all kinds of possibilities that might not otherwise exist (see bootstrapping a biotech firm). Doppelganger Simulacrum allows functional immortality since unused bodies are functionally dead but do not decay (and therefore, hopefully, do not age) and you can keep jumping to new bodies as long as your original is safe.

Researching a new magic item that allows the casting of Mind Swap (Major) (possibly cost reduced through weekly uses and wondorous architecture), and researching an extract version of Sculpt Simulacrum would allow people to enter the body of their choosing (including simulacra, construct, and undead allowing for some unique changes in perception), ushering in the first steps of a new transhuman age.

I mean, what's the point of having power unless you can change the world with it, am I right?

[tterreb]

Factotum, because all the skills!

[Quertus]

See Alignment, though, could make things really, really interesting. How would things change for you if you found out that your child/wife/mom was neutral evil or somesuch?

Per 2e, IIRC, 90+% of children are Chaotic Evil. This is probably related to why 2e Evil became 3e Neutral.