RuneQuest

[VoxRationis]

Have you played this, and what are your thoughts on the system? My group has been playing a bit of Call of Cthulhu and certain aspects of the system, like the steady yet restrained character growth, appeal to me. I've been wrestling a lot with D&D's dramatic power level range lately. (On the other hand, I kind of dislike how separated ability scores tend to be from user-end stats in Call of Cthulhu.) I am somewhat intrigued by the possibility of using such a system in a fantasy adventure genre.

So for those who have greater experience of RuneQuest than just having played a few sessions of a related game, what's it like? What's with the runes? Why are we questing for them? Or are we questing against them? The Wikipedia page is silent on the matter. Are there any noticeable gaps in what the rules cover, or things the system notably handles poorly? My friend and I were talking a while ago about how in CoC, the fight back mechanic makes it very difficult to overwhelm a superior melee combatant with numbers. Is this something you've noticed as you've played this game? Such a feature seems to me as though it would be more of a problem in a fantasy adventure game than a horror one. I understand RuneQuest's Glorantha setting is non-Tolkienesque. How difficult would it be to play the game in a Tolkienesque setting?

[RazorChain]

I have played 2nd edition extensively using the Glorantha setting so I can't really say what has happened to RuneQuest other than it changed hands and evolved into to HeroQuest and BRP

The 2nd edition doesn't rely on the Glorantha setting but that's where most of the fluff was but you can use RuneQuest for other things. The runes were of no consequence in the 2nd editions but I think they made something ouf of it in later editions. In 2nd edition there is no fight back mechanic. You roll attack and if you hit your foe rolls dodge or parry. If he fails you roll hit location and damage where every location has separate hit points.

If you have played CoC then the system is very similar except the combat system is more detailed. In a sense you are right that Stats don't have much effect on skills except they determine your starting mininum like a starting skill may be twice your dex score or your Con+Str.

All in all it's a pretty solid system and I enjoyed running it

[Khedrac]

I have liked RQ for decades, though I have not played it other than occasionally since leaving Uni.
The version I know is RQ3, but I think I have always played it with a few house-rules mixed in, and I suspect most people do the same (whether they know it or not).
The base system is effectively BRP with enhanced combat, but yes more people probably know it from Call of Cthulhu than anything else.
The Mongoose versions were a reverse-engineered version of the system (the rights to the name and game world had gotten split from them rights to the system) but they were different enough that I never actualy played them.
A new version: RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha is due out this year I think, based more on RQ2 than anything else and probably the version to go for if you want to play RuneQuest.

If RQG is like RQ3 then stats do have more of an influence on skills than in Cthulhu - skills are divided into categories and there's a modifier to the % chance for each skill in a category based on characteristics (so a high dexterity helps stealth skills, but a high size hinders them) In RQ3 this modifier also applied tot eh chance to improve skills.

The Runes are harder to define, in RQ2 and 3 they mainly served to indicate what the different deities foussed on. In RQG they will extend to help define one's character (the trait system form Pendragon updated and transferred to runes) - they shouldn't limit characters but rather a character's runic bias will depend on their actions. There's also an interaction with magic, but going on what I recall from advance product annoucements I cannot remember any details.

One notable thing about the system: nearly all magic is single target, and one's ability to defend oneself in combat tends to be limited to single opponents, thus numerical advantage in a fight is a huge factor. If running original RQ3 adventures they are written for 8 PCs so monster numbers should be greatly reduced for smaller parties. This is onle of the biggest differences with the system, and it is very important to rememebr it when comparing with more D&D-like systems.

I have played 2nd edition extensively using the Glorantha setting so I can't really say what has happened to RuneQuest other than it changed hands and evolved into to HeroQuest and BRP

Are you sure you mean 2nd Ed? - those are 3rd Ed boxes you showed images of.

[JellyPooga]

I've only dabbled in Runequest, but one thing I noted about it is that it's probably not for the casual gamer. In the group I was playing with at the time, the combat system was...arcane to them. I "got" it, but the massive number of options and interactions was beyond the guys that preferred a more streamlined combat system. Too much looking up of who could do what and what might be "best" on a given turn, combined with different actions having wildly different results, meant that there was a lot of analysis paralysis going on. We eventually gave up on it. I'm not saying the system is bad, but like Earthdawn, it requires a fair degree of "buy-in" and system mastery to make gameplay flow.

[VoxRationis]

Does anyone know the difference between the many editions? Are they significant? Wikipedia goes into great length on the publication history, but doesn't really talk about how the game has changed from the user's perspective.

[Khedrac]

Err, this question would be better asked on the BRP forums, but I will see what I can do.

Chaosium:
1st Ed - I know virtually nothing about this, but I believe it to be essentially the same as 2nd Ed.
2nd Ed - you get a Defence skill to reduce attacker's chances. Western Sorcery has not been invented and the game world map is really only Dragon Pass and surrounding lands. Lunar magic is the closest thing to sorcery. Critical and Special results from skills and attacks are separate (so with an impaling weapon a critical hit still only has a chance to impale - the special result)

Avalon Hill (licensed from Chaosium):
3rd Ed - defence skill removed, so you better hope your defensive manoeuver works. Western Sorcery now added. Default game world moved to Fantasy Earth, most of the initial Glorantha publiications are updated 2nd Ed material. All criticals are specials but better (ignore armor for combat).
Western Sorcery was usually regarded as unplayable (useless at low skill, automatic win at high skill) so Sandy Petersen (one of the authors) released an update on the web.
Games Workshop RQ is a re-ordered reprint of Avalon Hill RQ printed under license.

Generally speaking 2nd and 3rd Ed materials can be used interchangably when playing 3rd Ed, they areally are the same system with different bells and whistles. Going backwards is harder but should be doable for most purposes (avoiding sorcery).

RuneSlayers - AH was going to release RQ4 as a non-Glorantha game (they had lost the rights to Glorantha but had them to RQ) but it got cancelled so the authors released it for free online as RuneSlayers. Well it's not RuneQuest so can usually be discounted, I list it here in case you run into it unknowing.

Issaries Inc:
Hero Wars & HeroQuest 1 & 2 - not runequest, but has some transferability (but very limited).

Mongoose:
1st, 2nd & 3rd Ed - I bought the first few books for 1st Ed but the rules seemed to have holes in them and never went further so I don't know that much. The rules are not the same as BRP because they had to reverse engineer them. So similar rules but not the same and best regarded as not directly compatible.

[VoxRationis]

How does 6th fit into the above?

[Arbane]

Have you played this, and what are your thoughts on the system?

I played RQ3 a few times back in The Day. My main recollection is that characters are _fragile_. Wear good armor and bring a shield to a fight, or be ready to lose a limb. (RQ uses hit locations, so this can happen depressingly easily.)

So for those who have greater experience of RuneQuest than just having played a few sessions of a related game, what's it like? What's with the runes? Why are we questing for them? Or are we questing against them?

As I understand it, the runes are the source of magic in Glorantha, and since everyone uses magic, everyone's associated with a rune or two. Gaining more magic (via questing) is a popular hobby for PCs, so....

One thing the game doesn't handle well: The lore talks a lot about 'Hero Questing' in which people re-enact a Gloranthan myth to try and get supernatural benefits from it (it's apparently possible to CHANGE the myth by doing this and going off-script, which in turn can rewrite reality). The editions of RQ I've seen didn't actually have any rules for this.

I understand RuneQuest's Glorantha setting is non-Tolkienesque. How difficult would it be to play the game in a Tolkienesque setting?

Why would you want to do that, when The One Ring is in print?

Yeah, Glorantha is rather non-Tolkienieque. The setting is mostly Bronze Age, morality is either divine mandate (which is important!) or might-makes-right (but I repeat myself). While the Gods are non-interventionist since the beginning of Time (less that a 1000 years ago), religion is a HUGE part of the game. Any competent person (not just PCs) is going to be a devotee of a god associated with their interests, as there are tangible benefits. (Mostly, magic - and as I said ALL PCs in RQ are likely to have some magic spells.) It has elves, but they're plant-creatures that serve as extensions of the Forest Mind. There are dwarves, but they're robots made to repair the damaged World Machine, and would only go 'adventuring' if they developed the defect called 'free will'. There's trolls, and they're fairly interesting PC material. (Got their own splatbook and everything.)

Glorantha has been expanded on by Greg Stafford and fans for... 40 years now? I'd say it's big enough to rival Tolkien.

[Dynodragon]

How does 6th fit into the above?

6th was published by The Design Mechanisms until Chaosism decided they wanted to republish the Runequest game so withdrew the rights. TDM then republished under the Mythras name, I think it one of the best rpg’s of the last 10 years but it does need someone who’s willing to put the work into it to understand the nuance.

As a system it takes the old systems, especially the Mongoose ones, and refines and modernisers them. Most of the products are available through drive through RPG. As a small company their web present is basic but the staff are experienced and seasoned rpgers.

[Khedrac]

I played RQ3 a few times back in The Day. My main recollection is that characters are _fragile_. Wear good armor and bring a shield to a fight, or be ready to lose a limb. (RQ uses hit locations, so this can happen depressingly easily.)

Very true, but at least limbs are fairly easy to re-attach. Remember that you can mix and match armor (and very very few characters can actually carry full plate and not start at negatives). I found characters generally split into two groups - those who wore heavy armour on head chest and abdomen (the locations that kill you fastest) and light on their limbs, usually because they didn't seem to get hit on limbs that often; and those who wore heavy armor on their limbs and light on their head/chest/abdomen to stop their limbs from falling off quite so often... (My characters were usually in the latter group.)

One thing the game doesn't handle well: The lore talks a lot about 'Hero Questing' in which people re-enact a Gloranthan myth to try and get supernatural benefits from it (it's apparently possible to CHANGE the myth by doing this and going off-script, which in turn can rewrite reality). The editions of RQ I've seen didn't actually have any rules for this.

Good point - the Pendragon rules were generally thought to be a test of hero-questing rules! I think (hope) RQG will cover this better as the time period has been moved on to the start of the Hero Wars.

6th ...

Ooh - so that's what Mythras is. I had totally forgotten about the TDM 6th Ed - thank-you for adding that in.

[Arbane]

If you want to see what Glorantha is 'supposed' to look like (well, one interpretation, anyway) , the webcomic Prince of Sartar is set in it. (No link, it contains NSFW stuff.)

[VoxRationis]

Do people have a favorite edition?

[Jigawatts]

I can wholeheartedly suggest Mythras, quality system complete with a great combat system using a variety of special effects, and utilizing hit locations. It also has 5 unique magic systems that are quite amazing in execution, Folk Magic (think cantrips and other basic magic), Animism (shamans with spirits), Mysticism (can work as monks/chi/psionics/etc), Sorcery, and Theism (priests).

Although as a lover of D&D, one of my favorite things about the system is its Classic Fantasy supplement, which elegantly melds D&D into the d100 system, giving you classes and certain special abilities associated with them, yet keeping the skill progression system and still allowing for the same essential freeform skill progression of the base game.

[VoxRationis]

Well, that sounds just about what I'm looking for.

[2D8HP]

There's a forthcoming new edition, and free "quickstart" rules for RuneQuest, based on the 1978 rules (the one's I played), which also inspired Chaosium's BRP, which is just so intuitive.

(Here's a pdf sample), it is my "go-to" generic system.

They're many BRP based games, the most known of which is the Call of Cthullu, you played which I found to be one of the easiest RPG's to Gamemaster or "Keeper", more D&D like were RuneQuest (the original "BRP" game), Pendragon (my favorite, here's a pdf sample of some of the 5th edition rules, the latest I have, a 5.2 is out now).

Chaosium's Stormbringer had a magic system based on summoning supernatural entities, which I really recommend.

Here is a

review of Stormbringer

that seems to go deepest into the "mechanics" that I've been able to find (warning NSFW language).

I really have a hard time in reading PDF's, but here's a

Quick start Magic World PDF

the rules of which I'm told are based on Stormbringer. but was the most D&D like as Magic World was designed to use "Runequest like rules, but with a gonzo D&D feel".

Look at the links, and learn, it's a great system, chiefly mared by few using it except for CoC.

[Jigawatts]

Well, that sounds just about what I'm looking for.

Glad I could help.

Are you going with base Mythras, or Mythras with Classic Fantasy?

[VoxRationis]

I suppose I'll take a look at base Mythras first and see if that's suitable on its own.

[VoxRationis]

Are there any realm management mechanics for RuneQuest/Mythras? I'm thinking of running a game about a dwarven colonial expedition. Ignoring the dwarf part of it, does the game have any resources that support managing supplies and personnel on the scale of a large expedition or small colony?

[Rerednaw]

Are there any realm management mechanics for RuneQuest/Mythras? I'm thinking of running a game about a dwarven colonial expedition. Ignoring the dwarf part of it, does the game have any resources that support managing supplies and personnel on the scale of a large expedition or small colony?

Played and ran RQ since 1st ed.
RQ came out in the early days before "we need rules for everything" system creep was a mantra. So sorry no "how X items of food, wear and tear, do we need each day." FYI I still have fond memories...and especially of Stormbringer, it's off-shoot set in Elric's universe.

No idea on Mythras.

I'd probably go with: X units of food and water per person per day. Cost per the equipment list. Failure to meet this requirement will (penalty to skills/stats) per day until eventually more serious issues occur and eventually death. If you need to go deeper either google real-life examples (survival, camping, etc...) or mooch from other systems (Traveller has a lot of 'survival' scenarios, d20, etc...)

[VoxRationis]

So I acquired a PDF of Mythras and I'm looking through the combat system. It says Choose Location is a special effect. Does that mean that you can only choose location if you "spend" a special effect on it?

[Jigawatts]

Normally you roll a d20 to determine hit location, you may also use a special effect to choose the hit location.

[VoxRationis]

Regarding Mythras: I have a question about shields. What values would you use for a large but light shield of hide, like an ancient Egyptian shield, or one of the sort used by the Zulu?

Edit: Also, I find it odd that the equipment tables list milieus going up to the industrial era but there are no rules for gunpowder weapons.

[Bilharzia]

Regarding Mythras: I have a question about shields. What values would you use for a large but light shield of hide, like an ancient Egyptian shield, or one of the sort used by the Zulu?

Edit: Also, I find it odd that the equipment tables list milieus going up to the industrial era but there are no rules for gunpowder weapons.

The core rule book only covers up to roughly the Renaissance, and that's pushing it, technology wise the core rules go up to early medieval. The supplements expand the settings quite a bit though.

The Firearms supplement covers this, can be downloaded from the Design Mechanisms site, on the Downloads page.

If you want more detail about a medieval European setting I can recommend Mythic Constantinople, which has just been released, not a free download though. It covers medieval arms, including early firearms, explosives and Greek fire, it's set around 1450.

Nearest Zulu shield equivalent would be a Peltast shield.

On Mythras itself, for my money it's the best version of RuneQuest in 30 years. Chaosium is going all-in on a Glorantha-specific version of RQ based on RQ2, if you want something that covers settings outside of Glorantha Mythras is getting better and better.