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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Aug 2013

    Default Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    Thaum is a world where magic is like gravity--everyone has thaum, thaum acts upon everything. Mind over Matter is a fundamental statement of philosophy in Thaum.

    Elves and dwarves are not just humans with beards or pointy ears who like trees and ale and gold and pretty clothes.

    In the Dawn Age, packs of elves terrorized the countryside, which rang with the songs of the Wild Hunt and the Endless Dream.

    Elves are children of the Feywild, with chaos in their blood and an aversion to metal. Their ability to manipulate chaos, and their abilities to beguile other humanoids with charms and illusions spared them the necessity of building a real civilization (which their chaotic natures made them unsuited for anyway)--in what is now called the Dawn Age, packs of elves ruled the night, as humans (and smallfolk, and goblins--or perhaps they were not yet distinct groups) cowered and hid in their shelters and encampments, terrified of the elves' songs of the Wild Hunt and songs of the Endless Dream snatched away the unwary. They brandished wooden quarterstaffs and spears and bows, and stone arrowheads and axe-heads and daggers, made by skill and magical songs as sharper and stronger than steel. What became of their victims is unknown--some say they still feast at the halls of the Feywild, some say they wasted away and starved because elven food is only a beautiful mirage, some say the guest of honor is at one meal is the main course at the next, some say they still suffer as hewers of wood and drawers of water for their elven lords.

    Actually, not very many say these things anymore, as that was a long time ago. Only some elves remember--time obeys few rules in the Feywild, and there are elves today who remember the Dawn Age as if it was a few weeks or years ago. But they do not like to speak of such things--they lost an empire and do not understand how or why, and now their cattle do not cower nearly as much, and have champions who fight back. Forged metal and farms and cities spread over the countryside, and great magics banish the chaos of the Feywild from large areas.

    The Dawn Age came to a quick end when the dwarves' tunnels reached the surface, and the first dwarven faces felt the sunlight on them. The Diamond Imperium quickly came to dominate the surface world.

    The dwarves are children of the stone, bred to order and discipline and diligence and craft. With iron and steel to more than match the elves' fine flintcraft, and with order in their blood, the terror of the Wild Hunt and the charms of the Endless Dream had little effect on the dwarves. Before the elves could grasp what was happening, wooden stockade fences sprang up to disrupt their roamings; great stone buildings sprang up at the places where dwarven trails crossed. Soon the surface was as much the domain of the dwarves as the undermountain. Sheltered in the heavily regulated safety of the Diamond Imperium, no longer having to abandon sites when the Wild Hunt or was near or when other predators were about , the smallfolk turned their talents for horticulture into fine farms, while humans combined their rudimentary witch-doctor magic with the dwarves' runic writing system and created wizardry. The Diamond Imperium gladly integrated the smallfolk into their economy, bringing non-fungus grains and fruits and vegetables to dwarven tables, and meats besides cave rat. Troll and giant and dragon and magical beast soon learned to respect the dwarvencraft armor and weapons of the soldiers of the Diamond Imperium. Human pastoralists lived on the edges of the Imperium, glad to be safer from elven and other predation, but suspicious of the settled smallfolk and the stiff-necked, implacable dwarves.

    So what brings down the Diamond Imperium?

    We've got hyper-lawful, intelligent, organized worker bee dwarves with massive underground public works (aqueducts, sewer systems, irrigation channels, breweries, geothermal baths with healing magic. Because of their counter-magical nature, they're not good at magic, and they're not likely to understand the implications or like them if they do understand.

    Maybe there's a division in the Imperium--some dwarves (not the ruling class) see the fine foods and sunlight as heretical; while the ruling class enjoys the fruits of contact with the surface? This breaks the Imperium, which ends up splitting on geographic lines because the source of Law is no longer unitary?

    Maybe the Imperium tries to ban the humans from using magic, but only after the humans have worked it out? This doesn't break the Imperium, just liberates some human areas from it.

    Maybe--you have an idea.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: History of Thaum (E6)

    Very neat!

    Some ideas that could lead to the Diamond Imperium collapsing:

    1) Elves (or an elf) found a way to plant seeds of chaos/mistrust within the Dwarves? Think Sauran manipulating the Numenorian King (he was captured, and ended up becoming the number one adviser to the King, convincing them to worship Melkor, and to sale against the Gods to claim immortality -- spoiler alert, the Gods sunk their entire island and wiped out everyone basically).

    2) Elves convince humans (some humans) to dabble in fey/chaos magic. Maybe that's how sorcerers developed, since Humans let their blood be manipulated by the elves? Some humans see this as a path to independence from Dwarven 'protection' and Elven aggression maybe. The Dwarves try to clamp down on them, and this only leads to all humans resisting?

    3) The elves open up a rift to the fey wilds, in the largest underground dwarven city? This leads to the downfall of the Imperium as all central authority is wiped out/scrambled.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: History of Thaum (E6)

    I'm thinking that an influx of luxury goods disrupts dwarven society.
    Maybe the dwarves can down any amounts of beers, but elven wine or smallfolk whisky is a different beast. Alcohol makes the upper strata less responsible and therefore less legitimate.
    Maybe beer makes somber dwarves friendly enough to be social, while strong liquor breaks down too many inhibitions which leads to conflict. (Beer lets a low status dwarf and a high status dwarf share a table without giving offense in either direction, while whiskey leads to the low status dwarf declaring too much equality, or the high status dwarf demeaning the low status dwarf.)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: History of Thaum (E6)

    Quote Originally Posted by johnbragg View Post
    I'm thinking that an influx of luxury goods disrupts dwarven society.
    Maybe the dwarves can down any amounts of beers, but elven wine or smallfolk whisky is a different beast. Alcohol makes the upper strata less responsible and therefore less legitimate.
    Maybe beer makes somber dwarves friendly enough to be social, while strong liquor breaks down too many inhibitions which leads to conflict. (Beer lets a low status dwarf and a high status dwarf share a table without giving offense in either direction, while whiskey leads to the low status dwarf declaring too much equality, or the high status dwarf demeaning the low status dwarf.)
    The Diamond Imperium is not brought down by a demonic invasion--it is brought down by Demon Rum. I need to find some 19th century temperance literature for inspiration here.

    I think I like this train of thought. There's a strong argument that human societies are hit hard by early experiences with alcohol--consider the story of Lot and his daughters in the Old Testament, Bacchus and the Maenads. Think about opium in 19th century China, distilled spirits to a lot of Native American cultures, crack in the 1980s--a new drug can be a culture-wrecking calamity.

    Take civic-minded, dutiful, law-abiding dwarves who are accustomed to drinking copious amounts of beers with little effect, (mental note: figure out how dwarven brewmasters worked without grains--hops, barley, malt don't grow underground even if you throw in plenty of geothermal springs. Maybe a fungus substitute? Blecch. OR maybe a grass that grows prolifically on fungus beds, by the light of dwarfgold that is so pure it emits light), and introduce aquae vitae as a widely available luxury good, and you have a formula for social upheaval.

    Pillars of dwarven society start acting decidedly undwarfish, doing shoddy work and compensating by demanding deference. Non-pillars start demanding deference in imitation. You go from a society that exalts hard work and dedication and diligence to one that rewards belligerence and is focused on social climbing. Quality of work goes unrewarded, work quality declines. The Empire goes from appearing invincible to appearing quite vulnerable indeed.

    Whether or not which race or surface city breaks free from the Imperium before it falls is fairly academic--the Imperium itself is going to shatter. The dwarves of the campaign era are the heirs of various successor kingdoms.

    Upshot: Bifurcated dwarven attitudes towards intoxication. Civilized dwarves very likely shun any intoxicant (beer, no matter how strong, doesn't count according to dwarven physiology) while broken-down, barbarian dwarf cultures are famous for their drinking and brawling.

    (MAybe that's where my orcs come from? Whisky is going to be more plentiful on the surface, dwarves stationed in the Aboveground are away from family and elders. Soldiers fraternizing with the locals is a constant across multiverses.)

    https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/int...kards-progress

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    BLUF: Imperial dwarven society is organized by Clan (matrilineal and matriarchal), Guild (male-dominated) and Regiment (your age group from your home district, sent off together to fight and work the mines). Governing council is composed of the Matriarchs (grandmothers who run households) and Guildmasters each having 50% of the votes, with weighted voting to fix the math. Government officers are chosen for short terms, Roman-style, with one male and one female Consul.

    On the way up, this leads to a very cooperative, achievement driven social system--you are loyal in two vertical directions and one horizontal direction, plus informally to your brothers who have married into different clans. On the way down, those loyalties provide the lines of social fragmentation.


    Did some thinking about dwarven society. Social networks that, on the way up, promote a virtuous cycle of working hard to win the esteem of your social groups and avoid shame to your social groups, and then on the way down suck more and more people and energy into tribal power squabbles. To work together as a large society, I want social institutions that unite as many people as possible for common projects.

    Most obvious network is family--Clan. Given the dwarven association with craftsmanship and mining and smithing, my next move is Guild loyalty.

    Let's make the Clans matrilineal, and the Guilds male-dominated. 19th century Victorian public/private gender concepts, but give the female side some actual power. So Matriarchs have full voting rights in the town council/assembly/senate/althing/hoftage, along with Guildmasters--work out a 50-50 split voting system later. A Matriarch is a grandmother who runs her own Great House, including her adult daughters and sons-in-law and grandchildren and young children. Keeping food and beer production going, light household repairs, educating the children in the basics of the various dwarven arts so they're ready for Guild apprenticeships.

    Guild apprenticeships run from age 10-20. This becomes another network of patron-client relationships, somewhat like academia today.

    So we have two sets of gerontocratic, "vertical" loyalties. Some "horizontal" loyalty is going to be fairly natural, as your brothers have married into different clans. I'm formalizing that with an institution--the cohort regiment. All dwarves in a locality within an age range are brought together as a "regiment", from ages say 20-30, to do the backbreaking work of mining, and the dangerous task of war. Adolescent hijinks and shared suffering create lifelong bonds within a generational, er, cohort. The regiment also gives us a more egalitarian dwarven institution than the Clans and Guilds, which are going to be heavy on deference and heirarchy. A regiment may have a leader or small leadership group marked out, but won't have a seniority-based pecking order. (That's between regiments, sort of like the way older cadets boss younger cadets at military academies.)

    So a good dwarf brings honor to his Clan, his Guild and his Regiment--and wins the esteem of his Clan, his Guild and his Regiment. And when Demon Rum hits, two quarreling dwarves bring conflict between their Clans, their Guilds and their Regiments.

    If we have Imperial dwarves, I like the Roman example of government officials being elected/selected for short, fixed terms. Business of administration and ruling is a bothersome distraction from the real work of craftsmanship and engineering and whatnot. Republican Rome always had two Consuls, I don't see why Dawn Age dwarven societies wouldn't have two Consuls, one male and one female. That also helps keep us away from a monarchy, which is boring and overdone and doesn't help anyone understand that these aren't just humans-in-funny-suits. Short-term election/selection also allows a bigger dose of meritocracy, as the post is an honor even if it's an unwanted burden. And it keeps the Council or Senate or whatever more relevant, as the enduring power in the state.

    Open question: How to we keep the 50/50 gender balance rule for the Imperial Senate? It's not that hard to decide that for the Imperial Senate formed by a dozen cities, the dozen Guildmasters of the Armorsmiths guild get together and pick one of their number for the Senate. Is it that easy for the MAtriarchs of a city to sit down and pick one of the Matriarchs to go to the Senate?

    Actually maybe it is.

    EDIT: Want to post a link here about Dunbar's number. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number Posits an upper limit of 150 (range 100-250) of stable social relationships for a single person. The science is probably controversial, but good enough for elfgames. Or dwarfgames.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    I want to noodle up some chronology, mostly from the dwarven point of view.

    Dwarves are underground, mining, smithing, being really organized, forming phalanxes and fighting off monsters and rock-goblins and ginormous spiders and oozes and the like. They live on mushrooms at first, then as they dig they uncover veins of sungold and moonsilver, which shed light at regular intervals (elemental connections to the sun and moon, dwarves figure out the math fairly quickly. D&D version of UV growlights) which lets grasses grow, which gives them beer and bread.

    They develop for a couple of centuries, a dozen generations, building their first cities larger and larger, digging out new caverns for cities, tapping underground water sources, developing some clockwork tech powered by gems? They've got their Imperium going, say a dozen full fledged cities and another 20-30 lesser towns. (Need dwarven name for cities, towns. Delvings and ...)

    Thing to remember--they don't have wood. They've been cavebound this whole time. So no shortbows, no fruit in the diet, no draft animals, no herd animals (rats aren't very domesticable--you can hunt them easily enough, but not farm them.) Incredible feats of stonemasonry, beautiful works of goldsmithing and silversmithing and glassblowing, of iron and steel and (funky dwarvencraft material of legend), lead and mercury and tin and copper.

    Then some digging teams are digging upwards, and break through to some caves that connect to the surface. Suddenly the dwarves realize how starved they are for space--there is all the space you could ever want up on the surface, and you don't even have to dig for it, you just have to build your structure--mud, stone, this "wood" stuff.

    The elves don't know what hit them--their songs of charm and terror have little effect on the magic-resistant dwarves, who phalanx up and fight back, which is not something the elves are accustomed to. Dwarven cities quickly spring up on the surface--population growth similar to the English/American colonies, doubling every generation.

    The dwarves encounter surface races besides the elves--smallfolk, who are experts at getting plants to grow, and who flourish now that there aren't jerk-$$$ elves coming around to slaughter them for sport. Fruits and vegetables and various kinds of grain. Dwarven brewing techniques cross-fertilize with various smallfolk crops. Soon enough, through smallfolk and human intermediaries, a trickle of trade becomes more substantial, and elven wine enters the equation.

    Human shepherds, human cowboys and human horselords cluster by the Imperium cities, trading delicious meat and cheeses for dwarven metal and dwarven ale and soon for smallfolk liquor and fruits and pork.

    Cross-fertilization--within a half-century of dwarves learning about bows, the crossbow is introduced. In the same timeframe, dwarven alchemists working with smallfolk alchemists invent distilled liquors.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    Actually something else that could bring down the dwarves would be that they didn't know how to work with the surface environment and it grew large on the seemingly rich bounty (compared to their caves) but then hit an environmental limit, exhausted certain resources (especially renewable ones). This led to increased internal tensions which stopped the normal dispute system from working. Short term profit drove the elimination of several resource bases.

    This doesn't stand in the way of other social problems. Like alcohol weakening clan ties and less long term planning.

    The forests have mostly come back. But the dinosaurs (and some other monsters) that were once common are all but gone....a few forest primeval still exist hidden in various places.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    I like that. Massive growth spike hitting some Malthusuan limit--hard.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    A somewhat amusing thought. what if towards the maximum extent era the weather was unusually stable...The elves knew that Chaos would lay quiet in this field forever and assumed everyone knew that. the dwarves thought that the early parts of a medium term weather shift was a last ditch effort by the elves to go to war with them. this helped the dwarves to over-expand and to this day curse the elves for the weather shift.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    So, topside while the dwarves are building up their Imperium underground, what are the humans and smallfolk doing in between elven raids?

    The smallfolk are getting started on the whole "agriculture" business, but elven raiding prevents them from staying in one place permanently, which is a hindrance. They can do what late Neolithic hunter-gatherers did, planting or at least scattering seeds in favorable spots, doing a seasonal migration and then returning. But they're still indistinguishable from goblins at this point, except cosmetically.

    Humans are domesticating animals--large herds provide at least some built-in protection against elf raiders. But that's in the open grasslands, rather than in the forests.

    Human and smallfolk groups on the coast will do some fishing and shellfishing.

    Actually there is something the smallfolk would be doing about elven raiders, and ogres and trolls and dire beasts and regular beasts and unnaturally large spiders etc etc. Ringforts are going to be within a neolithic tech level, and having a stone hut over you and some stone walls between you and whatever is out there is going to be a big help. Definitely gives a boost to Will saves, and having your community close by when the elfsong hits means the ones who make the save can restrain the ones who do--leaving the elves picking off unwary stragglers in the woods, which fits the myths anyway. And they can plant gardens between the ring walls.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    Quote Originally Posted by sktarq View Post
    A somewhat amusing thought. what if towards the maximum extent era the weather was unusually stable...The elves knew that Chaos would lay quiet in this field forever and assumed everyone knew that. the dwarves thought that the early parts of a medium term weather shift was a last ditch effort by the elves to go to war with them. this helped the dwarves to over-expand and to this day curse the elves for the weather shift.
    Hmm. One of the axioms of this world is that reality is psycho-malleable, if you will. not just through spells, but through mass psychology. So when the elves are riding high, the weather *will* be more chaotic because that's what everyone expects. All of a sudden, dwarves show up radiating law and order and right angles and clockwork precision, and the smallfolk and humans follow their lead and those three populations explode.

    The dwarves coming to the surface is like the Columbian Exchange in impact. The dwarven sense of order and predictability is going to be set off-balance by a couple of things:
    First, by interacting with non-hostile non-dwarves. I have to sketch out exactly how the Diamond Imperium manages the relationship with non-dwarven client-peoples. Do they allow humans and smallfolk to live in the dwarven cities? How much military protection do these Clan-less, Guild-less, Regiment-less semi-people get, anyway? And what happens when the old arrangements become obsolete in 20-30 years?

    Second, cultural cross-pollination. Dwarves start eating fruits and vegetables and pork and beef and mutton and horsemeat and cheeses. Dwarven trading partners get metal tools and weapons.
    Smallfolk get an Agricultural Revolution underway, domesticating plants out the wazoo under the shadow of the dwarves' spears and hammers, and upgrading from bone-and-stone tools to bronze and iron. Human pastoralists start trading meat for metal. Settled humans adapt the dwarven practice of writing to the rituals and formula of magic.

    I may have to take one step back and sketch out what my smallfolk societies look like in the Dawn Age. Although the ringforts give me a lot to go on. And I may steal freely from Snow White. (Farmers, not miners, but lots of pint-sized people living communally while being threatened by spooky wierdos? Stick them in a stone hut with a couple of stone ringwalls around it, and they're ready for a Big Bad Wolf. That's a start, anyway. Reskin dwarven waraxes as smallfolk warspades (d6 in one hand, d8 in two), and we've got something)

    It's not going to be some nefarious plan of the elves that brings down the empire--that's not who the elves are. They don't do PLANS. They were cruel, sociopathic bastards in the dawn age (and may still be, deep enough into elven territory), but they're also flighty. That's the downside of having chaos in your soul and not being properly synced to real, consistent time--moods and memories fade and return.

    The Diamond Empire is going to collapse because of its own internal contradictions, and/or because of unintended consequences of dwarven-surface contact.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    Well if the world is psycho-reactive then a hard mathusian limit is better. The world itself becoming less flexible and adaptable so the problems can build even higher.

    Although I still think the idea that dwarves blame the elves for causing the fall makes sense. I never said they did change the weather just that the dwarves thought they did. The idea that they don't have a plan escapes the dwarves and they project a plan onto the elves is one I think could be useful story-wise for having beefs about it since it fallen long ago.
    Last edited by sktarq; 2018-02-14 at 08:46 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    Quote Originally Posted by sktarq View Post
    Well if the world is psycho-reactive then a hard mathusian limit is better. The world itself becoming less flexible and adaptable so the problems can build even higher.

    Although I still think the idea that dwarves blame the elves for causing the fall makes sense. I never said they did change the weather just that the dwarves thought they did. The idea that they don't have a plan escapes the dwarves and they project a plan onto the elves is one I think could be useful story-wise for having beefs about it since it fallen long ago.
    That's a good point. People who whiteboard out their breakfast for the next year are going to assume that everyone else also has a plan.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    So dwarves start colonies aboveground, in the harsh glare of the sun. (May shift to a nocturnal work-schedule, to avoid the worst of the sunlight.)

    What projects now occupy the dwarves of the Diamond Imperium? The fundamental problem of pre-Contact dwarven society, Lebensraum, has been solved. There is plenty of room up above, even if it's above ground. Basements can be dug and lined with stone, with only an entrance chamber up above.

    And a good dwarf can always find things to do, and work to occupy the rowdy Regiments. First wave, duplicate the regular dwarven public buildings in the new cities--baths, Council chamber, Guild halls. Forum for public meetings. Barracks and training centers for the Regiments on duty. SEcond wave, roads to connect the dwarven cities above ground as well as below. Docks to handle river trade. (Stone-kissed dwarves are NOT getting on boats if they can help it--that's going to be a niche for humans handling river trade). Plenty of beast and monsters and elves out in the woods--get to work building palisades, and then quarries for stone city walls. Start a regular program of monster hunts.

    Start a regular program of monster hunts--this is another niche where the smallfolk and humans are going to be a major asset to the Imperium. The semi-wild allies of the Imperium know the forest, know the country. They're the scouts, the rangers who guide the strike-teams.

    And of course, there is plenty of demand for dwarven metal from the smallfolk and the humans.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    So the dwarves slaughter some cave-goblins and emerge into the sun. I think the first thing that really confuses them is smallfolk ringforts. Human bands aren't going to seem that different from goblins at first, elves are just another kind of hostile.

    Smallfolk neither running away nor trying to kill them--but instead withdrawing behind a wooden palisade, seem almost civilized. Gardens will be recognizable as something created by purposeful work. Ringforts--stone walls and/or round earthen berms topped with wooden palisades--are likewise signs of "almost dwarven" planning and diligence, if not skill.

    First reaction is going to be split--one line of reasoning is that these are intelligent or civilized or whatever people, and should be brought into the Imperium and organized in Clans and Guilds and Regiments. The other option is that these are not dwarves, and everyone else they've run across who aren't dwarves have been hostile, so treat them as hostile.

    On the other hand, dwarves are going to be used to a high degree of consensus, so maybe they delay a decision indefinitely.

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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    Too much lawfulness creates a dogma that isolates them and the world begins to pass them by. A heretical movement against the fogma and in favor of contact with lesser beings creates a schism like that between the Mountain Dwarves and the Hill Dwadves.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Too much lawfulness creates a dogma that isolates them and the world begins to pass them by. A heretical movement against the fogma and in favor of contact with lesser beings creates a schism like that between the Mountain Dwarves and the Hill Dwadves.
    This is something that's going to happen. Humans develop magic spells (elves had songs, smallfolk had alchemy, dwarves had public works magic, but writing means a big advantage), surface dwarves vs underground could be a thing, definitely strife over the elites doing things that Real Dwarves don't do.

    They're going to have real problems adapting to the world the Imperium creates.

    I figure a bifurcated attitude towards strong liquor. One trend says it's not dwarven, drunkenness is no better than being an elf, other trend says it's a test of strength.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    In the first months after the dwarves discover the surface world, they come upon a smallfolk ringfort. What to do about the smallfolk is hotly debated among the surface expedition, and among the Imperial Senate. The dwarves and the smallfolk eye each other warily, the smallfolk not wanting to come to close to the armored, armed dwarves--and the dwarves not coming to close to the ringfort, until the Senate makes a decision.

    Scene: A smallfolk is gathering fruits and herbs in the forest a little too close to nightfall, and is entranced by the elves' song and, together with some deer and rabbits, follows the hunting party in a daze. Until the hunting party runs across a dwarven ambush, where the singer is killed and the enchantment broken. The elves fight back, and in the fog of battle, a wounded dwarf is left behind. The smallfolk rescues the rescuer in turn, makes a DC 15 Heal check, and late the next day leads the captured/rescued dwarf back to the ringfort, where they feed the dwarf and finish healing him up. (Alchemy is something they'd be good at, what with the herbs and plants and whatnot).

    After a meal and a bedrest, the dwarf returns to camp with a dozen words of Smallfolk tongue--mostly names of fruits, breads, soup, drink-this, hungry, medicine, spear, smallfolk and elves. The smallfolk band learns the dwarven word for dwarf anyway. But the smallfolk keeps the spear with its shiny, sharp metal point.

    I'm not sure that Old Imperial Dwarvish has a word for "friend"--it's usually covered by patron-client relationships or by regiment-brotherhood. But the idea is laid down that the smallfolk and the dwarves don't have to fight. Actually, the dwarves will apply a word to the situation--"Patron/client." The smallfolk, as a group, are the clients of the Diamond Imperium, as a group.

    That starts up a trading relationship (actually it starts as reciprocal gift giving on the dwarven end, the smallfolk are used to negotiating trades with other smallfolk bands and humans and elves and goblins and ogres on occasion while the dwarves are NOT.) The Imperium becomes the hub of a trading network, and the dwarves soon get the idea of bartering without assuming social obligation.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
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    Male

    Default Re: Rise and Fall of a Dwarven Dawn Age Empire (was History of Thaum (E6)

    Idea of how a feedback loop in the late Diamond Imperium could have worked to help destroy it.

    the dwarves have already been dealing with issues of 1: alcohol disruption of dwarven society and plans and 2: Elves infiltration "pranks" which is really just what happens when an elf sneaks into a dwarf area and the disrutpion that can come from that

    But over time two more start becoming more common.
    Dwarf plans become less effecient: for a number of reasons. economies of scale could be maxing out, soil exhaustion, being forced to use less rich ore as the best loads become exhausted. etc
    Dwarf plan failure: denuded hillsides become mudslides, silted up dams need higher replacement scheduels, tamping down small fires in sylvaculture regions just primes larger forest fires etc.

    Dwarven elites and cultural hardliners react to the first of these new problems as if they are the results of the first two problems. (And originally they were smaller)

    This makes reaching the planned 2.5% or whatever given percentage growth is in the plan for each community. And adjustments have to be made.

    The adjustments get made to the rations, time, etc to those who "failed" to get the job done in the first place and those who are not considered to embrace "proper" dwarven behavior. Probably based on the association of those groups to drink.

    And since these groups also need more supervision either to stick with the work or protection from elves more police/military presence is also deployed. a group with a distrust/disgust of the locals and nothing to really do properly leaving them highly vulnerable to corruption and drinking issues themselves, all while drawing resources that are needed elsewhere.

    All these reactions make the lives of the more put upon dwarves and smallfolk even harder so they are even more open to the elven songs of freedom, insurrectionist human radicals, and drowning of bad day in the bottom of a tankard of ale.

    Which causes yet more problems in the society and continues to mask the Mathusian issues even as they grow yet worse.
    Last edited by sktarq; 2018-02-16 at 01:22 PM.

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