Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

[tonberrian]

Ah, that's annoying. But, why can I see it?

Anyway -

Seasonal Raider - {1}{W}
Creature - Human Warrior C
Pillage: Whenever Seasonal Raider deals combat damage to a player, put a pillage counter on target land that player controlls. A land with a pillage counter on it is a Wastes and gains "{t}, remove a pillage counter from this permenent: add {c}."
2/2

It's a caching issue. You can see it, but the rest of us can't - at least until we go looking at the image directly. In fact we couldn't even tell there was an image.

[Gauntlet]

Seasonal Raider - {1}{W}
Creature - Human Warrior C
Pillage: Whenever Seasonal Raider deals combat damage to a player, put a pillage counter on target land that player controlls. A land with a pillage counter on it is a Wastes and gains "{t}, remove a pillage counter from this permenent: add {c}."
2/2

'Is a Wastes' doesn't mean anything - Wastes isn't a subtype and has no mechanical effect.

I'd word the ability as:

Pillage - Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, put a pillage counter on target land that player controls. The next time that land would produce mana, remove that pillage counter from it and it produces {C} instead.

[Techwarrior]

Wastes is a card name. Basic land of the colorless variety. You are correct in it not being a subtype though.

[Gauntlet]

Wastes is a card name. Basic land of the colorless variety. You are correct in it not being a subtype though.

Saying a card 'Is a Wastes' doesn't do anything though. You'd need to do what Imprisoned in the Moon does and say "Enchanted permanent is a colorless land with "{T}: Add {C}" and loses all other card types and abilities."

[Boci]

'Is a Wastes' doesn't mean anything - Wastes isn't a subtype and has no mechanical effect.

Saying a card 'Is a Wastes' doesn't do anything though

Spreading Seas reads:
"Enchant land
When Spreading Seas enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Enchanted land is an Island."

and the ruling below clarifies "The enchanted land loses its existing land types and any abilities printed on it. It now has the land type Island and has the ability to tap to add {B} to its controller’s mana pool."

(Link - http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=190405 )

So unless I missed something it should work the way I origionally worded it. Still your wording might be better just for brevity and clarity's sake.

EDIT: Come to think of it, Imprisoned in the Moon probably worded it that way to avoid references a card that wasn't in the set.

[enderlord99]

Spreading Seas reads:
"Enchant land
When Spreading Seas enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Enchanted land is an Island."

and the ruling below clarifies "The enchanted land loses its existing land types and any abilities printed on it. It now has the land type Island and has the ability to tap to add {B} to its controller’s mana pool."

(Link - http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=190405 )

So unless I missed something it should work the way I origionally worded it.

You missed something. Island is a subtype; Waste isn't.

[Emmerlaus]

Tested my Jalira, Master Polymorphist deck last Wednesday. Definitly learned about the deck strenght and strategy. Going to add " Mystic Speculation" and " Marchant Scroll " in the deck for more speed and better drawing.

I'll try to make my Isperia the Inscrutable soon enough and test it. I had no help o that deck so I'm pretty curious to figure out how it stand on his own.

Discovered RIng of the Evo Island and its awesome! All my deck splash blue and Its so useful in my Pir and Toothy deck and my Jalira deck.

Otherwise, nothing new here. Not a fan of custom made MTG cards so the earlier conversation made me shake my head in disappointement when I saw the updates thread in my subscription lol

However... I really want to find FRIENDS to play with. I being trying with strangers and the feeling is not the same, sigh...

[Boci]

You missed something. Island is a subtype; Waste isn't.

Okay, I see how that works now.

So is there any real difference between:

Pillage - Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, put a pillage counter on target land that player controls. The next time that land would produce mana, remove that pillage counter from it and it produces {C} instead.

and

Pillage - Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, put a pillage counter on target land that player controls. Lands with a pillage counters on them are colorless lands with "{T}, remove that pillage counter: Add {C}" and loses all other card types and abilities."

Assuming no I'll go with the first since its shorter.

[Androgeus]

Okay, I see how that works now.

So is there any real difference between:



and



Assuming no I'll go with the first since its shorter.

Yes the second one doesn’t do what you want, lands are already colourless (except dryad arbor) so making them colourless does nothing. It’s only setting a land sub type that removes other types and rules text

My other issue is what actually is the second part? Is the card with pillage saying what the pillage counters do, and thus they are meaningless if the card is removed (see Gwafa Hazid and his bribery counters)?
Is the mana denial meant to be intrinsic to pillage counters and thus the second ability is fancy reminder text?

Why is this on a white card btw? I don’t think mana disruption is in white’s colour pie. Feels more red/blue.

Finally I don’t have high hopes for your set if it has enough mana disruption that you can give it a named mechanic.

[Boci]

My other issue is what actually is the second part? Is the card with pillage saying what the pillage counters do, and thus they are meaningless if the card is removed (see Gwafa Hazid and his bribery counters)?
Is the mana denial meant to be intrinsic to pillage counters and thus the second ability is fancy reminder text?

Ideally the mana denial would be intrinsic to pillage counters, but since that's not how cards are meant to work it might be better if they operated like Gwafa Hazid's bribery counters.

Why is this on a white card btw? I don’t think mana disruption is in white’s colour pie. Feels more red/blue.

Its white because I was going to make vikings white/red, but if the mechanic makes more sense as red/blue I can make that change.

Finally I don’t have high hopes for your set if it has enough mana disruption that you can give it a named mechanic.

One idea I had to change it so the defending player puts the counter on the land, not the creature's controller, to prevent multiple intances from stacking (since then they'd put them all on the same land). That is probably something I should do...

[LansXero]

One idea I had to change it so the defending player puts the counter on the land, not the creature's controller, to prevent multiple intances from stacking (since then they'd put them all on the same land). That is probably something I should do...

No, because then its useless. Land denial is a very risky proposition, its really hard to balance properly. But, since what you are making will never see print or be played outside a really small group, balance isnt so much of a concern.

[Ninjaman]

Just a suggestion for a redesign of pillage that also works in all colors

Pillage (Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, put a pillage counter on target land that player controls. Remove the counter when the land becomes tapped.)

The counter removal clause is probably worded incorrectly.


Then, you can make your vikings do different stuff when pillage counters are removed like:

Viking Scholar - 2U
Creature - Human Warrior
Pillage
Hexproof
Whenever a pillage counter is removed from a land an opponent controls, scry 1.
1/2


Reckless Raider - 3R
Creature - Human Warrior
Pillage
Trample
Reckless Raider attacks each turn if able.
Whenever a pillage counter is removed from a land an opponent controls, Reckless Raider deals 1 damage to that player.
3/3


Viking Healer - 1W
Creature - Human Cleric Warrior
Pillage
Whenever a pillage counter is removed from a land an opponent controls, you gain 1 life.
2/2

And so on, with much flashier effects on the rares and mythics of course.

Raider King - 2RG
Creature - Human Warrior - R
Pillage
Trample
Whenever a pillage counter is removed from a land an opponent controls, that land doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
4/4

[sonofzeal]

I just got up to Silver in Magic: Arena...... because an enemy accidentally Wrath'd my side of the board.

You read that right.

The full scenario involved Ghalta, Primal Hunger, Sarkhan's Unsealing, Poison-Tip Archer, Slimefoot, the Stowaway, and a bunch of weenies. I've had victories during an opponent's turn before, but I think that was the classiest. I'm pretty sure they'd gotten so excited about getting Ghalta to the board that they'd forgotten about how Sarkhan was going to proc. And then suddenly my board exploded, followed by the stack, followed by their face...

[Gauntlet]

For Pillage Counters - I'd say the wording of Obsidian Fireheart is a good place to start. Just swap the functionality to producing colorless, and add 'and loses all other types and abilities' to the end of the rules text.

[Boci]

For Pillage Counters - I'd say the wording of Obsidian Fireheart is a good place to start. Just swap the functionality to producing colorless, and add 'and loses all other types and abilities' to the end of the rules text.

So:

Pillage - Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, put a pillage counter on target land that player controls. The next time that land would produce mana, remove that pillage counter from it and it produces {C} instead. (The land remains pillaged after ~ has left the battlefield.)

A little clunky wording, but could work.

Just a suggestion for a redesign of pillage that also works in all colors

Pillage (Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, put a pillage counter on target land that player controls. Remove the counter when the land becomes tapped.)

Then, you can make your vikings do different stuff when pillage counters are removed like:

Viking Scholar - 2U
Creature - Human Warrior
Pillage
Hexproof
Whenever a pillage counter is removed from a land an opponent controls, scry 1.
1/2


Reckless Raider - 3R
Creature - Human Warrior
Pillage
Trample
Reckless Raider attacks each turn if able.
Whenever a pillage counter is removed from a land an opponent controls, Reckless Raider deals 1 damage to that player.
3/3


Viking Healer - 1W
Creature - Human Cleric Warrior
Pillage
Whenever a pillage counter is removed from a land an opponent controls, you gain 1 life.
2/2

And so on, with much flashier effects on the rares and mythics of course.

Raider King - 2RG
Creature - Human Warrior - R
Pillage
Trample
Whenever a pillage counter is removed from a land an opponent controls, that land doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
4/4

As much as I like the fluff of pillage inherantly disrupting mana, this is probably the better way to do it.

Thank you everyone who helped me on this.

[Dhavaer]

I'm finally getting my hands on some Nicol Bolas, the Ravagers, so it's back to Grixis Midrange we go. I have a preliminary list, which feels pretty good, but I'm not sure about two things:

1. Spirebluff Canal or Sulfur Falls? I think I want Falls because it's important to hit four mana ASAP and Falls is better at that, but I'm not 100% sure.

2. Harnessed Lightning or Cast Down? I definitely want some Harnessed Lightning, but I'm concerned about Steel Leaf Champion. I'm not great against mono-green to begin with, so I feel like I need to shore up that matchup a bit. Maybe 2/2 split?

[Jormengand]

You could play with devotion as a secondary keyword that seems to keep in theme. Devotion splashing for competitive spirit at least feels neat in my head.

I dunno, devotion and competitive spirit seem too much at odds with each other. I know that in the follow-up set, I want to introduce Colorsickness - If you didn't pay [some type of mana] to cast [this], [bad stuff], which plays nice-nice with competitive spirit because it allows you to beat colour screw for a price.

However, I don't want it all to be about colours. There are some mechanics I've been toying with:

Anti-keywords: Hexthief (flagbearer mechanic), Bloodlink (Damage dealt to this creature causes you to gain that much life), Enmity (This costs 1 less for each [...] target opponent controls), Duellist (This can't be blocked except by only one creature). This has already sorta been done with madness/miracle, flashback/forecast, undying/persist and embalm/eternalise, though.
Keywords against targets: Lifelink against players (damage this deals to players causes you to gain that much life) or deathtouch against green (damage this deals to anything green is lethal damage).
Outcast: Spells and abilities affecting "All", "Each" or "Every" don't count this. Probably confusing with its interaction (or rather, non-interaction) with Competitive Spirit though.
Target Counters: Put a target counter on target X, then Y each Z with a target counter on it (or Y each Z for each target counter it has on it?).
Unity Counters: When [circumstance], put a unity counter on target X. Xs with Unity counters on them get Y.

Okay, shouldn't they be spirit soldiers or something then?

Changed their type to human angel, like the other celestians.

I don't think green does butt breathing, but I might be wrong.

Every colour gets it, and so does generic, on at least one card each.

Where? Titanic Growth was never an over powered card, and this sucks hard in comparison.

Love's devotion now costs 1 more and cantrips.

Remove it.
Rule 1# of design: Kill your darlings.

Manaweave Pendant and Embargo have both been 99ed while I figure out what, if anything, to do with them.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the shield.
Protection from creatures on a reusable common is a massive no go.

Amaranthine Shield has been reworked.

[gooddragon1]

I wish wotc would make a tier 0 format with the kind of cards they put in Intro packs. Print tier 0 or something on the front of the card so you know its allowed. Sample contents of one of the intro box thingies (that I got) spoilered:

Spoiler: 60 cards

Show

Spidery Grasp
Certain Death
Grave Digger
2 Forests
Arborback Stomper
4 Swamps
Rootwalla
Dune Beetle
1 Forest
Oakenform
Tattered Mummy
1 Swamp
Sengir Vampire
2 Swamps
1 Forest
Terrain Elemental
Wing Snare
Certain Death
Cursed Minotaur
Untamed Hunger
Nightmare
3 Forests
1 Swamp
Raise Dead
1 Swamp
Druid of the Cowl
Bloodhunter Bat
Essence Extraction
Garruk's Horde
Rootwalla
Essence Extraction
2 Forests
1 Swamp
Cowl Prowler
1 Swamp
Untamed Hunger
Sixth Sense
1 Forest
Stampeding Rhino
Rabid Bite
Rabid Bite
Bloodhunter Bat
Giant Spider
1 Swamp
3 Forests
Druid of the Cowl
Tattered Mummy
1 Swamp
Stalking Tiger
Alley Strangler

Cards like that, not like break open (which are just bad because they're too situational). Maybe charge 1$ a pack so you know they're not great cards because wotc wouldn't put them in there. Might make a format that isn't as much of an arms race. Like playing with yugioh cards from the very oldest sets with like 1200 attack on 5 star monster.

EDIT: Making break open useful...

blah 1r
Creature - Orc Trader
Haste
T: Target player gains control of target creature you control until end of turn.
1/3

[Ninjaman]

I wish wotc would make a tier 0 format with the kind of cards they put in Intro packs. Print tier 0 or something on the front of the card so you know its allowed. Sample contents of one of the intro box thingies (that I got) spoilered:

Cards like that, not like break open (which are just bad because they're too situational). Maybe charge 1$ a pack so you know they're not great cards because wotc wouldn't put them in there. Might make a format that isn't as much of an arms race. Like playing with yugioh cards from the very oldest sets with like 1200 attack on 5 star monster.

1. People didn't play 1200 attack monsters in the early days of Yu-gi-oh. They played the 1800 attack four star monsters, and the 2400/2500 attack six star monsters. You make the best out of what you've got.
It would be the same with your proposed format. You say it's not an arms race, but people would pretty quickly find out which cards were the most powerful in the format, and which tactics were supported.

[gooddragon1]

1. People didn't play 1200 attack monsters in the early days of Yu-gi-oh. They played the 1800 attack four star monsters, and the 2400/2500 attack six star monsters. You make the best out of what you've got.
It would be the same with your proposed format. You say it's not an arms race, but people would pretty quickly find out which cards were the most powerful in the format, and which tactics were supported.

Maybe, but it wouldn't be as much of an arms race at 1$ a pack. Maybe assign a point value to each card and have limits on point value for each deck as an option as well.

[Ninjaman]

Maybe, but it wouldn't be as much of an arms race at 1$ a pack.

If you just want cheap decks then there are plenty of cheap pauper decks.

Maybe assign a point value to each card and have limits on point value for each deck as an option as well.

Now you're just building an entirely different format.

[gooddragon1]

If you just want cheap decks then there are plenty of cheap pauper decks.


Now you're just building an entirely different format.

Sort of the idea, except it's just two things printed on a card extra, point value and tier 0 (or the fact that there's a point value could indicate tier 0?)

Because there's pauper cards that are valuable even though they're common. This brings back the feeling of playing with weak(er) stuff rather than at or above the mana curve all the time.

[Jurai]

Now you're just building an entirely different format.

Why don't we call it something like... WARMAGE! And there can be tournaments and a thousand editions each of which fluctuate wildly in best archetypes. And Wizards can charge billions on especially good cards with art by favorite artists like Chippy, or Rebecca Guay, or Zoltan Boros!

[tgva8889]

You could just play Intro Pack League, which I think is an actual format. I do feel the fact that some constructed formats really don't capture the feel of just learning how to play Magic, opening a bunch of packs and making do with whatever you have, which is why I play mostly Limited these days.

One of the most fun formats I've played in a long time is Bulk Highlander, where you literally just go to a store and acquire a large amount of their bulk Magic cards and restrict your card pool to whatever cards you happen to have. My friend and I were inspired by LoadingReadyRun's Dollar Store Highlander, so we got a bunch of singleton random bulk, put it in a box, and drew 100 cards out at a time for our "sealed deck" pool. There's something about playing cards no one wants with mana bases like when you would open an Alpha starter and just shuffle all the cards together, and knowing your opponent is doing the same thing. Sometimes I want to play the kind of Magic where Golgari Longlegs is a solid card.

[Tvtyrant]

Maybe, but it wouldn't be as much of an arms race at 1$ a pack. Maybe assign a point value to each card and have limits on point value for each deck as an option as well.

It would work with penny dreadful. Buy up copies of all the cards on the PD list, then sell $1 packs of them.

Penny dreadful is a great format which auto-corrects for power imbalances. Although in paper you need to make it more like nickel dreadful.

[Ninjaman]

Sort of the idea, except it's just two things printed on a card extra, point value and tier 0 (or the fact that there's a point value could indicate tier 0?)

Wait, hold on, are you saying Wizards should print more stuff on their cards?

Because there's pauper cards that are valuable even though they're common. This brings back the feeling of playing with weak(er) stuff rather than at or above the mana curve all the time.

That's the issue, you want a format where bad cards are good. The thing is, people will try to optimize their decks, so even if the only legal cards are of average power level, they will play the ones with the highest average power level.

One of the most fun formats I've played in a long time is Bulk Highlander, where you literally just go to a store and acquire a large amount of their bulk Magic cards and restrict your card pool to whatever cards you happen to have. My friend and I were inspired by LoadingReadyRun's Dollar Store Highlander, so we got a bunch of singleton random bulk, put it in a box, and drew 100 cards out at a time for our "sealed deck" pool. There's something about playing cards no one wants with mana bases like when you would open an Alpha starter and just shuffle all the cards together, and knowing your opponent is doing the same thing. Sometimes I want to play the kind of Magic where Golgari Longlegs is a solid card.

That sounds super fun!
You don't even need to buy cards, you can just grab one guys bulk and shuffle it up together.
I've enjoyed some crap cube stack in the past, by just grabbing a pile of assorted cards they sell for 0.1 a piece in the game store, and just play with that.
There is definitely something oddly satisfying about playing with mediocre cards.

The place where this really seperates from Gooddragon's idea is that this is limited, meaning you can't optimize and metagame in the same way.

It would work with penny dreadful. Buy up copies of all the cards on the PD list, then sell $1 packs of them.

Penny dreadful is a great format which auto-corrects for power imbalances. Although in paper you need to make it more like nickel dreadful.

Penny dreadful looks super fun, but I think the power level is much above what Gooddragon is looking for. Looking at the decks there are a lot of powerful cards that are just a smidge too bad to see play other places. I mean if I agreed with a friend to play decks made of mediocre cards and he played a voltaic brawler, I would feel cheated.
Though Gooddragon did mention price as being an issue with pauper.


Gooddragon, do you want cheap cards or mediocre power-level cards? Which is the important factor?

[Tvtyrant]

Wait, hold on, are you saying Wizards should print more stuff on their cards?


That's the issue, you want a format where bad cards are good. The thing is, people will try to optimize their decks, so even if the only legal cards are of average power level, they will play the ones with the highest average power level.



That sounds super fun!
You don't even need to buy cards, you can just grab one guys bulk and shuffle it up together.
I've enjoyed some crap cube stack in the past, by just grabbing a pile of assorted cards they sell for 0.1 a piece in the game store, and just play with that.
There is definitely something oddly satisfying about playing with mediocre cards.

The place where this really seperates from Gooddragon's idea is that this is limited, meaning you can't optimize and metagame in the same way.



Penny dreadful looks super fun, but I think the power level is much above what Gooddragon is looking for. Looking at the decks there are a lot of powerful cards that are just a smidge too bad to see play other places. I mean if I agreed with a friend to play decks made of mediocre cards and he played a voltaic brawler, I would feel cheated.
Though Gooddragon did mention price as being an issue with pauper.


Gooddragon, do you want cheap cards or mediocre power-level cards? Which is the important factor?

That was my suggestion for the cube. Then he can pick all the equivalent level of crappiness.

Another suggestion might be to pick a few of the oldest sets and use the common creatures from them, as creatures get progressively worse as you go back.

[sonofzeal]

New favorite Rakdos deck theme for MTG:Arena - Act of Treason (et al) into Morbid Curiosity (et al). "That's a lovely Leonin Warleader you got there. It'd be a shame if something were to happen to it."

I don't know if this deck can be competitive - I've won with it, but it needs a lot of open mana and the right combinations of cards to excel. When you're struggling on lands or only have sacrifice effects and no gain-control effects... well, you're going to have a bad day. But when it works, it's absolutely hilarious.

[Emmerlaus]

I discovered Release the Gremlins and I LOVE that card!

The name, the effect, everything about that red card would manage to be in every of my red EDH deck, simply because its too awesome to ignore.

Well... I dont have a deck with a commander that give me red mana yet but Im strongly considering a spellsinger deck, either Firesong and Sunspeaker or Jori En, Ruin Diver. Both are awesome and I cant decide between the two lol! (But also, my wallet tell me to wait a bit before I buy other MTG cards )

Its like Stonecloaker for white: I had to make a EDH card with that card in it! ( My Isperia the Unsrutable deck)

DO you have a card you fallen in love with and just wanted to make a deck around it?

In other format ( I think it was brawl?), I made a Adeliz, the Cinder Wind deck. I like the wizard theme and wanted to try it

[sonofzeal]

I discovered Release the Gremlins and I LOVE that card!

The name, the effect, everything about that red card would manage to be in every of my red EDH deck, simply because its too awesome to ignore.

Well... I dont have a deck with a commander that give me red mana yet but Im strongly considering a spellsinger deck, either Firesong and Sunspeaker or Jori En, Ruin Diver. Both are awesome and I cant decide between the two lol! (But also, my wallet tell me to wait a bit before I buy other MTG cards )

Its like Stonecloaker for white: I had to make a EDH card with that card in it! ( My Isperia the Unsrutable deck)

DO you have a card you fallen in love with and just wanted to make a deck around it?

In other format ( I think it was brawl?), I made a Adeliz, the Cinder Wind deck. I like the wizard theme and wanted to try it

Fun card!

The only thing I'll say against it is you never want to play it in a deck that's got any noticable artifacts. If the opponent doesn't have any artifacts, you might still want to play it for the gremlins, but could be forced to destroy your own artifacts or have it be a dead draw. If your deck lacks artifacts, hey problem solved, but that's a relevant deckbuilding constraint. Fortunately, I don't believe there's a window where between paying the mana and choosing the artifacts where a savvy foe could sac one or two of their artifacts to make you nuke your own if you have them, so there's that at least, but it's better to avoid the issue as much as possible and simply try to not have artifacts you'd mind losing.