Cobra Kai

[Kyberwulf]

So the show came out. Has anyone seen it yet?

[Elanasaurus]

Not yet, but in Singapore, Episode 2 is the #25th trending Youtube video.
Maybe I'll take a look at it later.

[Pex]

I never saw The Karate Kid. At the time I disliked Ralph Maccio, not that he was really to blame for anything. I disliked him because he was "Cousin Oliver" on Eight Is Enough. I never accepted him joining the show. His character did not belong on the show. I was a kid myself, but that was how I felt. I hated the character, so I hated the actor.

Then comes along "How I Met Your Mother" with Barney being a fan of William Zabka. I didn't know the actor by name, but I knew him by face. Not from Karate Kid but other movies. He is the Bully. He knows this and has lamented how being the Bully in movies affected his personal life. It's not fair to him either, but I didn't care. I hated him too.

Now that I'm older I'm considering seeing The Karate Kid. (Never the remake.) I won't watch Cobra Kai until I do, if I do. I've forgiven Ralph Maccio for butting into Eight Is Enough.

[Whispering Goat]

Not yet, but I hope to.

[Joran]

I watched the first 4 episodes. It's very, very good.

[Some Android]

So I haven't seen the show but I do have a question: is the bad guy bully kid from the first film the protagonist/mentor/good-guy/not-bad-guy in this series? Also is it the same actors?

[Cristo Meyers]

So I haven't seen the show but I do have a question: is the bad guy bully kid from the first film the protagonist/mentor/good-guy/not-bad-guy in this series? Also is it the same actors?

Same actors, and it's a bit of both. He's flawed, but honestly trying to do right.

[Lethologica]

Now that I'm older I'm considering seeing The Karate Kid. (Never the remake.)

Honestly, I don't really understand the dislike for the remake. I liked Jaden Smith in that movie (if not any other movie), and Jackie Chan did a great job, so the core relationship of the film was on point. The other characters weren't as fleshed out as they could have been, but then, it's not like they were in the original. The fights were excellent, and the settings ranged from grounded to gorgeous. I thought it was a quite good movie.

[Kyberwulf]

Same guys playing them. I don't think Johnny is some guy trying to do right, going through a midlife crisis. He isn't outright evil. I think he is mostly motivated by selfish reasons. He isn't completely unlikable though. I think he was a good guy, who was taught the wrong lessons in life.

I don't know if it matters, but watch The Karate Kid: Daniel is the REAL bully. It has some points. It voices some thoughts I have always had about Daniel being a Hero.

[Peelee]

Danny is not the "real" bully. Danny meet be as much of a bully, because he and Johnny are very similar. The movie is practically a "there but for the grace of God go I" story on who taught them. Daniel is a hothead. So is Johnny. Johnny just got the bad teacher.

Anyway, present day Johnny is a great character. Nobody thinks they're the villain, and he's a great example of that. He knows Kreese was terrible, he knows what Kreese turned the Cobras into, and at the end he sees how he himself is slowly turning into Kreese. He wanted to teach the same lessons expecting a different outcome, and he doesn't want that. It's not story of reception or a guy trying to do right, because he never saw himself don't wrong. It's a story of growth, and Johnny is growing a lot.

[Pex]

Honestly, I don't really understand the dislike for the remake. I liked Jaden Smith in that movie (if not any other movie), and Jackie Chan did a great job, so the core relationship of the film was on point. The other characters weren't as fleshed out as they could have been, but then, it's not like they were in the original. The fights were excellent, and the settings ranged from grounded to gorgeous. I thought it was a quite good movie.

Though I never saw the movie I understand the iconic culture status it has become. It was a movie that didn't need to be remade. I'm also not a fan of nepotism. Jaden Smith was in movies only because of Will Smith, though I like Will Smith.

[Peelee]

Though I never saw the movie I understand the iconic culture status it has become. It was a movie that didn't need to be remade. I'm also not a fan of nepotism. Jaden Smith was in movies only because of Will Smith, though I like Will Smith.

Imean, no movie needs to be remade. No movie needs to be made to begin with. If a remake comes out and is good, then regardless of "it didn't need to be remade," it's still good. The remake takes the concept, turns a lot of things around, and has Jackie Chan being awesome. I'm not a big fan of Jaden Smith either, for the same reasons, but kid was pretty good in that movie.

[Brother Oni]

Anyway, present day Johnny is a great character. Nobody thinks they're the villain, and he's a great example of that. He knows Kreese was terrible, he knows what Kreese turned the Cobras into, and at the end he sees how he himself is slowly turning into Kreese. He wanted to teach the same lessons expecting a different outcome, and he doesn't want that. It's not story of reception or a guy trying to do right, because he never saw himself don't wrong. It's a story of growth, and Johnny is growing a lot.

Only up to episode 6 at the moment so possible spoilers up to then:

It's worth bearing in mind Kreese's history - he's former US Army Special Forces who served in Vietnam. It's unsurprising that his karate (ie Cobra Kai's tenets of Strike First, Strike Hard, No Mercy) reflects his training and mind set of killing the enemy as a primary goal. Cobra Kai style karate isn't wrong per se, it's just in the wrong time/environment.

Johnny is a misogynistic relic from the 80s and complete arsehat. That said, I fully agree that he's learning and he's morally pragmatic - it takes him less than 5 minutes to get over his 'no girls in Cobra Kai' hang up when the future of his dojo is at stake. He's realised what terrible mistakes he's made during his life and is trying to own up to them, it's just that some thing can't be changed.

As someone who's taught martial arts, I recognise that Johnny is simply teaching karate the way he was taught, which includes the US military methods that Kreese used (eg the constant insults and humiliation during Basic/Boot camp training). From where I've watched to, he's realised that this isn't acceptable in the environment that he's in and is starting to make steps to change his teaching style, although keeping to Cobra Kai tenets.

On a technical level, I'm enjoying the attention to detail of the basics (thumb in when making a fist, stances, etc) that I missed when the film first came out. I'm fully intending to show my children the first film under the guise of watching for technical details with the benefit of my experience.

[Misereor]

Bingewatched it this weekend, and found it highly entertaining.
I particularly enjoyed the mirroring that was going on in many scenes. Present with past, old generation with new, fathers with sons, old bullies and victims with new ditto, and so on. And the humor of course.

[Lacuna Caster]

On a technical level, I'm enjoying the attention to detail of the basics (thumb in when making a fist, stances, etc)...

Thumb *in* when making a fist? Whoa. How does that work?

[Some Android]

Same actors, and it's a bit of both. He's flawed, but honestly trying to do right.

Just like a Wes Anderson protagonist!

[Peelee]

Thumb *in* when making a fist? Whoa. How does that work?

It doesn't, which is what they point out. If you haven't seen it yet, I absolutely recommend it, it's pretty great.

Spoiler: Not a huge spoiler, but the details give a little away

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When Daniel's cousin pranks Robbie with the Porsche, Robbie storms out of the dealership. Daniel follows. Robbie balls his hand into a fist, with the thumb inside the fist. Daniel tells him that's a great way to break his thumb, corrects it, lets Robbie throw a punch or two, and patches things up.

[Brother Oni]

It doesn't, which is what they point out. If you haven't seen it yet, I absolutely recommend it, it's pretty great.

Spoiler: Not a huge spoiler, but the details give a little away

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When Daniel's cousin pranks Robbie with the Porsche, Robbie storms out of the dealership. Daniel follows. Robbie balls his hand into a fist, with the thumb inside the fist. Daniel tells him that's a great way to break his thumb, corrects it, lets Robbie throw a punch or two, and patches things up.

Yeah, sorry I wasn't being very clear - I meant thumb tucked in, rather than inside the fist.

Generally most people who have never thrown a punch before, hold their fists in one of two incorrect positions, with their thumb inside their fist (great way of breaking the first metacarpal) or with their thumb alongside the fist:

Spoiler: Different ways to form a basic fist

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.

Having your thumb alongside your fist has a tendency to get it caught on your opponent or his clothing, pulling your thumb back and damaging or breaking your first metacarpal again.

There are more advanced hand techniques which contravene this general principle, but those are things that those new to martial arts shouldn't have to worry too much about.


On a separate note, I watched the original film again with my children and they both enjoyed it to my great relief.
The fighting isn't bad, although not technically great - I can't tell whether the guy who ducks before his opponent launches a head height kick is due to his opponent's massive telegraphing or poor choreography (probably both).

I'm also really not seeing where the 'Daniel is the real bully' theme is coming from:

• First time Daniel and Johnny meet is on the beach where Daniel's flirting with Ali. Daniel stands up for Ali because Johnny is being a jealous crazy ex, but Daniel's also first one to throw a punch. Call that one a draw so Daniel-san 1 : Johnny 1
• Second time, Johnny and his crew run Daniel off a road while he's biking home. Daniel-san 1 : Johnny 2.
• Third time, Daniel pranks Johnny with the hose at the Halloween dance and gets the crap kicked out of him 5 to 1 before Mr Miyagi shows up. Kind of a draw - Daniel started it, but Johnny's retaliation is disproportional. Daniel-san 2 : Johnny 3.
• Daniel and Miyagi visit Kreese at his dojo and they cut a deal, which nearly cuts out all the harassment for the next 2 months, except for a single event at school, which is neatly defused by Daniel running to a teacher. No score draw so Daniel-san 2 : Johnny 3
• Johnny then makes Daniel jealous at the country club by stealing a kiss off Ali. Another point against Johnny; Daniel-san 2 : Johnny 4

While I agree that Daniel is much as a hot head as Johnny and escalated the situation, it's hard to call him the bully.

[Peelee]

First time Daniel and Johnny meet is on the beach where Daniel's flirting with Ali. Daniel stands up for Ali because Johnny is being a jealous crazy ex, but Daniel's also first one to throw a punch. Call that one a draw so Daniel-san 1 : Johnny 1

Johnny was being potentially abusive towards Ali. Even if you don't think it quite went that far, the way he was acting was not OK. Also, Daniel threw the first actual punch, but Johnny still pushed him down. It was still overt aggression, just as much as Daniel's punch was.

I kinda figure that Karate Kid really is about the "no bad student, only bad teacher" dichotomy between Johnny and Daniel, and Cobra Kai seems to reinforce that.

[Goblin Slayer]

i watch the 1st two free episode and am now asking will the blu ray be released soon? i dun wanna give google my money for a you tube red subscription and still wanna support the show creator.

[Brother Oni]

Johnny was being potentially abusive towards Ali. Even if you don't think it quite went that far, the way he was acting was not OK. Also, Daniel threw the first actual punch, but Johnny still pushed him down. It was still overt aggression, just as much as Daniel's punch was.

I kinda figure that Karate Kid really is about the "no bad student, only bad teacher" dichotomy between Johnny and Daniel, and Cobra Kai seems to reinforce that.

For the record, I fully agree that the way Johnny behaved was inappropriate and if I were in the same situation, I would have suckered punched Johnny and one of his mates then prepared to fight the other 2 on 1 (I understand I'm somewhat of an outlier response though). I would still be as guilty of escalation as Daniel was though.

Again, I fully agree that "only bad teacher" is the main message behind the film, I was just responding to the 'Daniel is the real bully' hypothesis that some people are proposing.

[Peelee]

For the record, I fully agree that the way Johnny behaved was inappropriate and if I were in the same situation, I would have suckered punched Johnny and one of his mates then prepared to fight the other 2 on 1 (I understand I'm somewhat of an outlier response though). I would still be as guilty of escalation as Daniel was though.

Again, I fully agree that "only bad teacher" is the main message behind the film, I was just responding to the 'Daniel is the real bully' hypothesis that some people are proposing.

I also agree with your dissent of Daniel being the real bully. And yeah, you're right, Daniel did escalate on the beach, but it was more of a "they come at you with a knife, you come back with a gun" kind of escalation. Johnny had already started a physical assault. Dude should have been prepared for a punch to be thrown (and, to underscore this he was. Several times). He just didn't expect that last one.

[Brother Oni]

Watched the last 4 episodes, so spoilers ahead.

It strikes me that somebody well versed in martial arts helped write some of the episodes (training people out of a flinch response is only possible through experiencing repeated blows to the head), but alas they didn't help with the tournament fight choreography, with all the named characters waving their hands in the air as if they were in a dance party when kicking.

The San Fernando karate community must also be the only one where all the styles teach boxing-style hook punches.

That said, kudos to the actors doing their own choreography and the valiant attempt to use decent fight filming techniques (eg try to use the widest, steadiest shot possible with as few cuts possible) while trying to get them to look as competent as possible.

They kinda over-emphasised the 'only bad teacher' lesson a bit though but it's a very interesting reversal of the film. Definitely looking forward to Season 2 next year.

[Kyberwulf]

I just thought that was an a funny take on the movie, Daniel is the bully. It's also a video on Youtybe. Aptly named "Daniel is the REAL bully" it's pretty funny.

I don't think it will be released on any other platforms. I mean, none of their other series seems to be released.

[Peelee]

I just thought that was an a funny take on the movie, Daniel is the bully. It's also a video on Youtybe. Aptly named "Daniel is the REAL bully" it's pretty funny.

Having a video on youtube is a pretty low bar, though. I don't think they make their case very well.

[Lentrax]

Me and the wife binge watched it the weekend it came out. We loved it, and are still arguing over our theories over what is going to happen in season 2.

Spoiler: MASSIVE SPOILER FOR THE END OF SEASON ONE

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Spoiler: No, seriously, this is a spoiler. If you havent watched the entirety of Cobra Kai, don't read.

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Kreese is going to take over Cobra Kai. Not sure how, just that he will, and kicks Johnny to the curb, and starts teaching Johnny's kids the original Cobra Kai way. Johnny can't stand it, but can't take Kreese on on his own, and so he *eventually* sucks up his pride and goes to the one person he would rather not deal with, Danny. I mean, the episode where they almost bonded in the bar shows us that they probably can get past their differences and work out some kind of status besides mortal enemies.

[Brother Oni]

Me and the wife binge watched it the weekend it came out. We loved it, and are still arguing over our theories over what is going to happen in season 2.

Spoiler: MASSIVE SPOILER FOR THE END OF SEASON ONE

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Spoiler: No, seriously, this is a spoiler. If you havent watched the entirety of Cobra Kai, don't read.

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Kreese is going to take over Cobra Kai. Not sure how, just that he will, and kicks Johnny to the curb, and starts teaching Johnny's kids the original Cobra Kai way. Johnny can't stand it, but can't take Kreese on on his own, and so he *eventually* sucks up his pride and goes to the one person he would rather not deal with, Danny. I mean, the episode where they almost bonded in the bar shows us that they probably can get past their differences and work out some kind of status besides mortal enemies.

Spoiler

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Except that Johnny has been teaching his students in the original Cobra Kai way anyway and it's only at the tournament that he's realised that it's an inappropriate way (Aisha temper tantrum off the mat, Hawk's disqualifion, Miguel's repeated exploitation of Robby's injury).

The only way I can see Kreese taking over the dojo is by claiming the name and starting up the official Cobra Kai dojo elsewhere as it's still Johnny's name on the lease. Most of the named cast will probably stay with Johnny in his no-name dojo, while all the new students will flock to the new dojo off the back of the tournament win.

I think if Daniel and Johnny managed to get into the training room and finished their match, then regardless of the result, they would have reconciled their differences.

I was reading an article on Cobra Kai which mentioned that the three guys who pitched the idea of the series had to get multiple people onboard - Ralph Maccio, William Zabka, the Studio, Will Smith's company as they still had the rights for the remakes and the estate of the original film's producer - and Ralph Maccio mentioned that during their pitch to him, they had the pilot, season 1 and season 2 all fleshed out, which was part of the reason for his buy in, so everything's planned out for next season at the very least.