Looking for tips on Weapon Creation (Bloodborne Style)

[Zertryx]

I plan on running a game that has a very bloodborne style theme, and one thing i wanted to try and do was create weapons that are similar to the weapons in bloodborne (can transform between two forms) my issue is im struggling to think of a way to do this in a balanced manner and was looking for some suggestions or if anyone knows of already homebrewed ones for 4th (only can find ones for 5th).

I figured with 4th this would be kinda simple due to the inate power setup of At-wills, Encounters, Dailys but am not sure if i should limit the weapon transforms per battle or make the action free but have one form have a special attack that transforms it back. anytips would be appreciated thank you.

[Waddacku]

I'm not familiar with how Bloodborne's weapons function, but if you could elaborate a bit more about what kind of dynamic it is you're trying to capture I could still make some suggestions. Particularly, do you want this to be something everyone is doing or a thing for the players to take or leave as they wish?

[Beoric]

Is this what you are looking for (from Adventurer's Vault p. 68)?

Dynamic Weapon

Level 6+ Common

This weapon transforms into any other melee weapon that its wielder desires.

Lvl 6 +2 1,800 gp
Lvl 11 +3 9,000 gp
Lvl 16 +4 45,000 gp
Lvl 21 +5 225,000 gp
Lvl 26 +6 1,125,000 gp

Weapon: Any melee

Enhancement Bonus: attack rolls and damage rolls

Critical: +1d6 damage per plus

Power (Polymorph) Encounter (Minor Action)

Change the weapon into a different weapon from any melee category (simple, military, or superior). This effect lasts until the end of the encounter, or until you end it as a minor action.

Or this, from Seekers of the Ashen Crown:

Ashurta's Blade

Level 10 Uncommon

This byeshk spike can change size and shape into several bladed forms. It is deadly against aberrant creatures.

Lvl 10 +2 5,000 gp

Weapon: Broadsword, dagger, longsword, shuriken or short sword

Enhancement Bonus: attack rolls and damage rolls

Critical: +1d6 damage per plus, +1d10 damage per plus against aberrant creatures

Property

You gain a +1 item bonus to all defenses against the attacks of aberrant creatures.

Power (Minor Action)

Effect: Ashurta's blade takes the shape of a broadsword (Adventurer's Vault, page 9), dagger, longsword, shuriken, or short sword. It takes on the statistics normal for that weapon until it changes shape into another weapon.

Power Daily (Free Action)

Trigger: You hit with an attack using the weapon.

Effect: A target of the attack is dazed until the end of your next turn. An aberrant creature is also restrained and cannot teleport until the end of your next turn.

[Zertryx]

I'm not familiar with how Bloodborne's weapons function, but if you could elaborate a bit more about what kind of dynamic it is you're trying to capture I could still make some suggestions. Particularly, do you want this to be something everyone is doing or a thing for the players to take or leave as they wish?

Bloodborne weapons basically have 2 forms to kinda give an edge during fights by being able to swap between these two forms mid combat (or even attack at times) (an example of one of these weapons is the "Threaded cane" in cane form it is short range but Fast, in Whip form it has longer reach but slightly slower)

My goal is to create weapons with similar effects of being able to swap between 2 forms and possibly even have a unique attack (encounter power maybe? or Daily? depending on power) that while in a certian form you use the attack and then it swaps to the other form as part of one action.

My fear is making the weapons to powerful, i want them to be kinda like treasures the players can find to be fun but also useable without it being overpowered. this way they can choose if they like these new eapons or they can stick with whats already in the game.

Is this what you are looking for (from Adventurer's Vault p. 68)?

Dynamic Weapon

Level 6+ Common

This weapon transforms into any other melee weapon that its wielder desires.

Lvl 6 +2 1,800 gp
Lvl 11 +3 9,000 gp
Lvl 16 +4 45,000 gp
Lvl 21 +5 225,000 gp
Lvl 26 +6 1,125,000 gp

Weapon: Any melee

Enhancement Bonus: attack rolls and damage rolls

Critical: +1d6 damage per plus

Power (Polymorph) Encounter (Minor Action)

Change the weapon into a different weapon from any melee category (simple, military, or superior). This effect lasts until the end of the encounter, or until you end it as a minor action.

Or this, from Seekers of the Ashen Crown:

Ashurta's Blade

Level 10 Uncommon

This byeshk spike can change size and shape into several bladed forms. It is deadly against aberrant creatures.

Lvl 10 +2 5,000 gp

Weapon: Broadsword, dagger, longsword, shuriken or short sword

Enhancement Bonus: attack rolls and damage rolls

Critical: +1d6 damage per plus, +1d10 damage per plus against aberrant creatures

Property

You gain a +1 item bonus to all defenses against the attacks of aberrant creatures.

Power (Minor Action)

Effect: Ashurta's blade takes the shape of a broadsword (Adventurer's Vault, page 9), dagger, longsword, shuriken, or short sword. It takes on the statistics normal for that weapon until it changes shape into another weapon.

Power Daily (Free Action)

Trigger: You hit with an attack using the weapon.

Effect: A target of the attack is dazed until the end of your next turn. An aberrant creature is also restrained and cannot teleport until the end of your next turn.

Actually i forgot about the Ashurtas Blade, and didnt know about the other weapon but i suppose these could be good bases to start for what i kinda wanna do, they are very similar in what i wanna accomplish so thank you for these.

[Jaeda]

I feel like a weapon that has two fixed forms that you can switch between as a minor action wouldn't be that powerful. It essentially lets you switch between two weapons which you can do with two minor actions (one to stow the weapon and one to draw the new one). If you have quick draw or you don't need to reuse the first weapon later, you can already do this as a single move action. So from a cost standpoint, it seems to be worth roughly half a feat (since quick draw also gives you +2 initiative).

The two main benefits I can see are that it saves you money (since you only need one magic weapon instead of two) and that certain powers (mostly fighter and rogue ones AFAIK) require using particular types of weapons. The former I don't really see as much of a problem since the rules generally assume that you only need one magic weapon.

So my 2c is that if you just want the weapon change, give it two forms and you can swap between them as a minor action and not worry about it too much (at least for military weapons, maybe some of the special superior weapons need you to be a little choosy). If you want some special combo power, I'd treat that as the weapon's special magic property and look for existing items that do similar things as guidelines for level and pricing.

[Yakk]

I'm going to go wonkey.

We use gestalt-type characters who are a standard character + a hybrid one.

More than this, we use two hybrids, where we switch between them based on which weapon you are using.

This requires some violence to 4e mechanics. Here goes.

(A) You have one primary class.
(B) You have two secondary classes. Each of these secondary classes use the Hybrid rules but only one is "active" at a time. "Inactive" classes grant HP and healing surges and defence boosts. You cannot use the powers of "inactive" classes. You gain one at-will attack encounter attack, daily attack, and utility power by default from each of your secondary classes "for free" per tier.
(C) We use presumed competence rules; your ATK on all powers you have is (Level+5) + any proficiency bonus. You do not get any bonuses from magic items or attributes on top of this. Powers that had accuracy boosts and where weapon/implement powers keep them, but powers that have accuracy boosts replacing weapon/implement keyword do not.
(D) To switch to a secondary class, you must use a weapon that changes form to a weapon that class is proficient in. This takes a minor action.
(E) Your primary pool of feats must be qualified for from your primary class. You gain two secondary pools of feats equal to 1 + 1/3 of your level (round down). These feats may not rely on any of your primary class features, but instead must be based off one of your hybrid classes. They are active only when you are in the corresponding class.

The result of this is ~+50%-100% power characters with wonkey class-switching mechanics.

An alternative for even more wonk would be to make your primary class be hybrid, and your secondary classes be ful ones (!).

[Beoric]

So my 2c is that if you just want the weapon change, give it two forms and you can swap between them as a minor action and not worry about it too much (at least for military weapons, maybe some of the special superior weapons need you to be a little choosy). If you want some special combo power, I'd treat that as the weapon's special magic property and look for existing items that do similar things as guidelines for level and pricing.

I agree with this and have added this property to items before. On the other hand, if you are fussy about action economy, you could add this property to any weapon:

Property: If you have the Quickdraw or Master-at-Arms feats [or list other similar game elements] you may change this weapon to a [first weapon form] or a [second weapon form] as a minor action; otherwise you may two so by expending two minor actions.

The action economy should be the same as sheathing a weapon and drawing another weapon.

OR

You could reflavour double weapons and gouges, and maybe invent some of your own. This would allow a dual wielder to have multiple attacks using different weapon types without blowing the minor.

OR do both, depending on the build.

[Zertryx]

I agree with this and have added this property to items before. On the other hand, if you are fussy about action economy, you could add this property to any weapon:

Property: If you have the Quickdraw or Master-at-Arms feats [or list other similar game elements] you may change this weapon to a [first weapon form] or a [second weapon form] as a minor action; otherwise you may two so by expending two minor actions.

The action economy should be the same as sheathing a weapon and drawing another weapon.

OR

You could reflavour double weapons and gouges, and maybe invent some of your own. This would allow a dual wielder to have multiple attacks using different weapon types without blowing the minor.

OR do both, depending on the build.

Yeah this does seem like a pretty good solution to what i want.

However i have another issue thats kinda come up, for characters that rely on implements (actually more specifically the Hexblade) how would i go about letting his "pact blade" have similar effects? should i just give the implement the ability? or should i just force him to use the weapon itself if he wants to use the switch function?

Because basically i want the weapons in thier second mode to have some kinda encounter power that does a special attack but transforms it back into the normal weapon, so idk if this would be too strong for a hexblade to be able to do this with his pact blade?

[Jaeda]

Yeah this does seem like a pretty good solution to what i want.

However i have another issue thats kinda come up, for characters that rely on implements (actually more specifically the Hexblade) how would i go about letting his "pact blade" have similar effects? should i just give the implement the ability? or should i just force him to use the weapon itself if he wants to use the switch function?

Because basically i want the weapons in thier second mode to have some kinda encounter power that does a special attack but transforms it back into the normal weapon, so idk if this would be too strong for a hexblade to be able to do this with his pact blade?

Warlocks have pact blades, sorcerers can use weapons as implements, and clerics and paladins can use their holy symbols without using a hand, so there are already several ways to use weapons and implements at the same time. I'd have no problem with having an item have weapon-implement forms instead of weapon-weapon forms.