OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread

[Ironsmith]

Well the Moot seems to happen somewhat often since the High Priest of Magi and Wrecan had been there before.

Senatorial meetings and such happen fairly often, do, but individual members still meet and interact outside them. Plus, given that Wrecan seemed shocked by this, I think it safe to say the topic wasn't addressed in such a moot.

[Fyraltari]

Suppose I used the word "lives" because I'm talking about their lives.

So you are saying that they care about their lives in thea abstract and about their afterlives individually?
I had not considered that.

Senatorial meetings and such happen fairly often, do, but individual members still meet and interact outside them. Plus, given that Wrecan seemed shocked by this, I think it safe to say the topic wasn't addressed in such a moot.

Well it has been adressed in 100% of the Moots we have seen.

Regardless I think we misunderstood each other: What I was saying is that the reasos behind the godsmoot and domain agreement and stuff may give them an incentive to limit the important talk (that concerns them all) to the confine of the Moots which they call when there is an issue. What were you saying?

[zimmerwald1915]

Senatorial meetings and such happen fairly often, do, but individual members still meet and interact outside them.

They are also (usually) public, unlike the Godsmoot.

[Kish]

Senate analogies hinge on assuming the conclusion: The Senate exists to serve the people (jokes about its effectiveness and corruption aside). The Godsmoot is about how to promote the best interests of the gods, with regard for mortal concerns being, at best, an optional and often-opted-out-of extra.

[Jasdoif]

Senate analogies hinge on assuming the conclusion: The Senate exists to serve the people (jokes about its effectiveness and corruption aside). The Godsmoot is about how to promote the best interests of the gods, with regard for mortal concerns being, at best, an optional and often-opted-out-of extra.

"We are your gods."
"Well I didn't vote for you."

[Ironsmith]

Well it has been adressed in 100% of the Moots we have seen.

Regardless I think we misunderstood each other: What I was saying is that the reasos behind the godsmoot and domain agreement and stuff may give them an incentive to limit the important talk (that concerns them all) to the confine of the Moots which they call when there is an issue. What were you saying?

Ah. What I hold is that the moot is their means of ultimately coming to their decisions as a pantheon (I.e. destroying the world or not.) Only the gods important enough to have a high priest actually get a vote; everyone else is simply too insignificant an entity. This prevents the gods from fighting about the big things. For just discussion, though, no moot is necessary, and in fact is generally forgone.

I also offer as evidence Hel's interactions with the demigod of messengers (name's blanked on me, sorry), wherein she demands he vote yes, "as we agreed". We know Hel doesn't normally attend the moot, so whatever interaction by which those two came to such an agreement happened outside the moot. Plus, nobody but other gods can hear these conversations anyway, so the moot's security is moot.

[zimmerwald1915]

"We are your gods."
"Well I didn't vote for you."

The tragedy of Dennis is that he has gotten more absurd and less true to life as time has passed, rather than more.

[Fyraltari]

Ah. What I hold is that the moot is their means of ultimately coming to their decisions as a pantheon (I.e. destroying the world or not.) Only the gods important enough to have a high priest actually get a vote; everyone else is simply too insignificant an entity. This prevents the gods from fighting about the big things. For just discussion, though, no moot is necessary, and in fact is generally forgone.

Are there gods not worshipped? I don't think this idea has been raised (except for Hel obviously). Though I guess there may be some gods that are so little worshipped that their high priest is not high-levelenough to cas Summon Proxy.

I also offer as evidence Hel's interactions with the demigod of messengers (name's blanked on me, sorry), wherein she demands he vote yes, "as we agreed". We know Hel doesn't normally attend the moot, so whatever interaction by which those two came to such an agreement happened outside the moot.

Oh yeah I meant that as what the gods normally do but not in a regulated manner, as in some sort of tacit agreement. Of course those who are little represented by the Moots (ie Hel and the demi-gods) would not feel obligated to follow this (they would even feel obligated not to). This was after all Hermod's reason for promising Hel support, demand an overhaul of the Moot's functionning.

EDIT This is of course mostly headcanon.

[Ironsmith]

Are there gods not worshipped? I don't think this idea has been raised (except for Hel obviously). Though I guess there may be some gods that are so little worshipped that their high priest is not high-levelenough to cas Summon Proxy.

Well, yeah. Until recently, Hel fell into that category, and gods like Banjo and Giggles (and probably a few less farcical ones) still do. I'm not sure there are any gods with no worshippers, but an obscure deity only worshipped by a small cult probably doesn't hold as much sway as, say, Odin.

Oh yeah I meant that as what the gods normally do but not in a regulated manner, as in some sort of tacit agreement. Of course those who are little represented by the Moots (ie Hel and the demi-gods) would not feel obligated to follow this (they would even feel obligated not to). This was after all Hermod's reason for promising Hel support, demand an overhaul of the Moot's functionning.

EDIT This is of course mostly headcanon.

I like to think that Thor and Odin and the others still talk about these things at their Sunday-afternoon-barbeque-equivalents, if for no other reason than because that mental image is just too funny to pass up. Plus, it would explain why the gods all seem to have their minds more or less made up by the time the moot is called...

[factotum]

Well, yeah. Until recently, Hel fell into that category, and gods like Banjo and Giggles (and probably a few less farcical ones) still do. I'm not sure there are any gods with no worshippers, but an obscure deity only worshipped by a small cult probably doesn't hold as much sway as, say, Odin.

Which is why Hel is so annoyed with the whole affair--she's been relegated to an also-ran who hasn't even been able to participate in Godsmoots, so she's effectively had no power whatsoever. (Although I'm still not certain why the Gods can't just meet face to face in the Outer Planes to have a Godsmoot--why is the whole palaver with Summon Proxy even needed?).

[Riftwolf]

(Although I'm still not certain why the Gods can't just meet face to face in the Outer Planes to have a Godsmoot--why is the whole palaver with Summon Proxy even needed?).

The Godsmoot is safer. Having 20+ deities in the same room could cause another Snarl. Think of it like a conference call between lumps of sentient uranium.

Wait, what the hell? I've been teleported back in time to the last time everyone argued about the Godsmoot! I must warn the people!

[Fyraltari]

Which is why Hel is so annoyed with the whole affair--she's been relegated to an also-ran who hasn't even been able to participate in Godsmoots, so she's effectively had no power whatsoever. (Although I'm still not certain why the Gods can't just meet face to face in the Outer Planes to have a Godsmoot--why is the whole palaver with Summon Proxy even needed?).

Watsonina: Because should they disagree again they risk a repeat of this.

This way they can all reach an agreement while being 100% sure no Snarl will spawn.

Overkill? Maybe but better safe than sorry.

Doylist: Because the Giant needed the Order to be aware of Hel's plan and able to stop it.

[zimmerwald1915]

(Although I'm still not certain why the Gods can't just meet face to face in the Outer Planes to have a Godsmoot--why is the whole palaver with Summon Proxy even needed?).

Apart from the reasons already mentioned, there's the ego-stroking that comes from making the mortals scurry about, and the convenience of not having to leave their planar domains. Not leaving their planar domains also leaves them less open to enemy raids - such as by powerful celestials or fiends.

[Jasdoif]

Although I'm still not certain why the Gods can't just meet face to face in the Outer Planes to have a Godsmoot--why is the whole palaver with Summon Proxy even needed?

The gods don't meet in person across pantheon lines, to avoid creating another iteration of Snarl; and the purpose of the Godsmoot is to poll the gods. Based on that and the other pantheons meeting concurrently, I think what we're looking at is a teleconference for formal decision making that needs a vote from all the pantheons.

In that vein, summon proxy isn't overly different from logging in to this forum; it's both authentication (shows that we're who say we are, showcased with Hel) and authorization (need an account to post, as with Heimdall and Loki). Since they don't all summon a proxy, they likely have something along the lines of staying logged in...but conceivably any high priest(ess) could be challenged (by the chair of the pantheon, like the High Priestess of Odin; possibly the other pantheons through their representative) to summon a proxy if there was any doubt as to their identity. They probably don't use Kerberos, what with the Eastern gods being gone.

[Ironsmith]

In that vein, summon proxy isn't overly different from logging in to this forum; it's both authentication (shows that we're who say we are, showcased with Hel) and authorization (need an account to post, as with Heimdall and Loki). Since they don't all summon a proxy, they likely have something along the lines of staying logged in...but conceivably any high priest(ess) could be challenged (by the chair of the pantheon, like the High Priestess of Odin; possibly the other pantheons through their representative) to summon a proxy if there was any doubt as to their identity. They probably don't use Kerberos, what with the Eastern gods being gone.

So the fate of the world is in the hands of a forum?

Forget the ramifications of the Snarl, this planet was screwed already.

[KorvinStarmast]

So the fate of the world is in the hands of a forum? Forget the ramifications of the Snarl, this planet was screwed already.

Well, it's boiled down to being in the hands of a chat room, given the tie vote and Dvalin needing to poll the dwarven council of clans ...

[Mad Humanist]

Well, it's boiled down to being in the hands of a chat room, given the tie vote and Dvalin needing to poll the dwarven council of clans ...

Actually the fate of the world being in the hands of a forum where the members may actually be controlled by a foreign power sounds oddly topical for some reason.

[Ironsmith]

Well, it's boiled down to being in the hands of a chat room, given the tie vote and Dvalin needing to poll the dwarven council of clans ...

Urist McPsychopants has signed in
Kurt Lightningblade has signed in
DefinitelyNotGreg has signed in

DefinitelyNotGreg calls for a vote: Destroy the world? (+1/-0)

Kurt Lightningblade:omgs! wtf, dude?
Kurt Lightningblade has voted (+1/-1)

Urist McPsychopants has voted (+2/-1)
Urist McPsychocpants: idk lol

WhoTheHellIsGontor has signed in
Kurt Lightningblade has changed their vote (+3/-0)

WhoTheHellIsGontor has voted (+4/-0)

Vote stands at +4/-0. Destroying the world...

[Manty5]

* You need moderator permissions on this forum to destroy the world.

[danielxcutter]

Anyone else being reminded of that Macebook gag?

[D.One]

Anyone else being reminded of that Macebook gag?

OMG. The Godsmoot IS indeed the macebook of the gods...

[Ironsmith]

OMG. The Godsmoot IS indeed the macebook of the gods...

Would that make all those priests confabbing before/after the vote the rough equivalent of those obnoxious pop-up ads, then? You know, the ones that are selected based on the information you put in, are annoying, and generally feature stuff you don't really care about (to go with that interpretation of the gods)?

[Jasdoif]

So the fate of the world is in the hands of a forum?

I hear it worked well enough for the Romans.

[Fyraltari]

I hear it worked well enough for the Romans.

Their mods could have been better though, it could be a very hostile forum.

Spoiler

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[Ironsmith]

I hear it worked well enough for the Romans.

Dunno where you heard that from, but they seem to be behind by a couple millennia or so...

[Jasdoif]

Dunno where you heard that from, but they seem to be behind by a couple millennia or so...

Near as I can tell, the Roman Senate began in the Roman Forum, and lasted for around a millennium and a half; I'm not sure the current world in OotS is that old. And forums were spaces in Roman cities where things such as discussions and debates occurred, from which Internet forums get their name.